Who has reached Jhana?

[taoguy]

Curious, because I wish to seek advice about meditation...

 

By Jhana, I mean the Mahayana-sutra-defined Jhana, hard jhanas, not the soft-jhana or vippasana-style jhanas defined by new-age buddhism that do not adhere to the sutra's definitions. I mean:

 

1. Firstly raising kundalini to open the 8 extraordinary channels, front and back, middle, left and right for physical agitations/karmic-formations/fabrications (through jhanas 1 and 2)
2. Then entering dark night through mental agitations/karmic-formations/fabrications (through jhanas 3 and 4).

 

Anyone?  Would love some advice on how to get there.

[Fa Xin]

Why would you like to obtain this?

 

Feel free not to answer, just a question to ponder on your own.

What's the motivation?

[taoguy]

41 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

Why would you like to obtain this?

 

Feel free not to answer, just a question to ponder on your own.

What's the motivation?

 

I don't want to obtain it. I want to know how to reach it. Non-grasping is not the same as not getting there. I want to reach that sublime state so that I can realize dharma-nature.

 

A Chan-master taught that all things happen in threes.

1. appearance/jing-jie/alambana/realm
2. conduct/function/action
3. fruit of conduct

I wish to be able to reach that jing-jie so that the proper understanding of prajna can be sought. Without that jing-jie, it is just intellectual understanding, no matter how many prajnaparamita sutras I can read. Without the jhana fruit (deva realm) I cannot reach the Arhat fruit. Without the Arhat fruit I certainly cannot reach the Bodhisattva fruit.

Edited June 12, 2017 by taoguy

[taoguy]

36 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

"If you meet the Buddha on your path, kill him." Anything worth obtaining isn't easy, and if it has been easily obtained, it either a) isn't worth it if it's that easy, and probably isn't the thing spoken of worth obtaining. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe you meant something like if I am clinging to form, cut it. I'm not looking for forms to cling onto, but insights to destroy my delusional state.

[EmeraldHead]

I haven't read the sutra or many other texts about jhanas but from what I understand to get to the same achievement as Absolutus (known by his /r/meditation AMAs) or Siro from yogaforum who healed his sight, takes a couple months of everyday, uninteruptted 1-4 hours of concentration meditation so either use the breath meditation with the labelling technique Siro went into detail about and basically don't just passively watch the breath like how anapanasati is normally taught to most people but control it. This FoRCES  you to concentrate. oR trataka like I do is good as well

 

Have you noticed the electric like charge in A's AMAs (^)? Vajra, his mind is that empowered with chi from constantly doing quality long sessions...too bad he doesn't know how to use his soul to gain strong psychokinesis...

 

Also you need to workout, don't jerk off, etc. that kind of stuff to have the chi for it especially and then unimportantly good hormones/jing in the body so the brain and cells can sustain your progress easier.

 

It will take longer with just 1hour a day. Go for 4h as often as you can  

 

Then you can get any girl around campus naked   

Edited June 12, 2017 by Arramu

[taoguy]

2 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Even clinging onto the idea of destroying the delusional state is itself an illusion. Be here now, as Ram Das said. 

 

Have you experienced Jhana with that yet? What if 'clinging onto the present' or 'clinging onto emptiness' itself is also clinging?

 

1 hour ago, Arramu said:

I haven't read the sutra or many other texts about jhanas but from what I understand to get to the same achievement as Absolutus (known by his /r/meditation AMAs) or Siro from yogaforum who healed his sight, takes a couple months of everyday, uninteruptted 1-4 hours of concentration meditation so either use the breath meditation with the labelling technique Siro went into detail about and basically don't just passively watch the breath like how anapanasati is normally taught to most people but control it. This FoRCES  you to concentrate. oR trataka like I do is good as well

 

Have you noticed the electric like charge in A's AMAs (^)? Vajra, his mind is that empowered with chi from constantly doing quality long sessions...too bad he doesn't know how to use his soul to gain strong psychokinesis...

 

Also you need to workout, don't jerk off, etc. that kind of stuff to have the chi for it especially and then unimportantly good hormones/jing in the body so the brain and cells can sustain your progress easier.

 

It will take longer with just 1hour a day. Go for 4h as often as you can  

 

Then you can get any girl around campus naked   

 

I'm not interested in that... nor about powers. I'm only interested in liberation from suffering.

Edited June 12, 2017 by taoguy

[EmeraldHead]

4 minutes ago, taoguy said:

I'm not interested in that... nor about powers. I'm only interested in liberation from suffering.

 

I don't know you but do not be quick to say that because mental improment from meditation feels really great and you want to improve it 1000x unless you experienced STRoNG power too! at least

 

Anyway, well that kind of training leads to self-realisation as by Hindu/yoga path or Pantajalis sutras. Absolutus and Illuminatus both made sure to mention the incredible happiness and motivation gained as a result of empowering the spirit/consciouss mind.  And you're going to experience what Pantanjali mentions colour of thought and higher and lower mental waves and what it means to raise very high on the mental waves until those are no more and is left is the real, solid you! Also the buddha (forgot which one, he is a popular one however) spend 3 years to master jhanas even better than those two ^ and then did insight quickly and got rid of suffering to the core of it (enlightement).

That is quite clear in my opinion

[Fa Xin]

it seems like your looking for "something else"

 

good luck on your search friend!

 

[taoguy]

2 minutes ago, Arramu said:

 

I don't know you but do not be quick to say that because mental improment from meditation feels really great and you want to improve it 1000x unless you experienced STRoNG power too! at least

 

Anyway, well that kind of training leads to self-realisation as by Hindu/yoga path or Pantajalis sutras. Absolutus and Illuminatus both made sure to mention the incredible happiness and motivation gained as a result of empowering the spirit/consciouss mind.  And you're going to experience what Pantanjali mentions colour of thought and higher and lower mental waves and what it means to raise very high on the mental waves until those are no more and is left is the real, solid you! Also the buddha (forgot which one, he is a popular one however) spend 3 years to master jhanas even better than those two ^ and then did insight quickly and got rid of suffering to the core of it (enlightement).

That is quite clear in my opinion

 

How about you? Have you tested out his claims? Because I try as much as I can to not listen to 'proxies' and if I could I would contact Absolutus to find out if he is genuine. But I was wondering if you had any experience after following his instructions?

[taoguy]

1 minute ago, Fa Xin said:

it seems like your looking for "something else"

 

good luck on your search friend!

 

 

If you have experienced jhanas, I am still willing to listen.

[Fa Xin]

6 minutes ago, taoguy said:

 

If you have experienced jhanas, I am still willing to listen.

Nope. I simply try to stay in the here and now, I don't have any other skills or techniques or experiences. 

[Fa Xin]

 

zazen or vipassana?

i would say those are "tried and true" methods that produced masters over the years. 

[taoguy]

14 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

 

zazen or vipassana?

i would say those are "tried and true" methods that produced masters over the years. 

 

I follow the teachings of a late Chan master who taught zazen meditation. But I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly. That's why I'm seeking someone who's experienced jhana.

[taoguy]

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

This presumes that being present is "clinging". Perhaps a better choice of words (or rather, one word) is, "Be".

 

I won't say much else now, because those who argue don't know, and those who know don't need to argue. Cheers!

 

I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

[Marblehead]

I'm withholding the answer because it is only "my" answer.

 

[qicat]

13 hours ago, taoguy said:

Then entering dark night through mental agitations/karmic-formations/fabrications (through jhanas 3 and 4).

 

 

mmm...

r u sure you want to go there? it's pretty dark down there

ain't cupcakes and rainbows and love and light as new agers are selling it...

 

[Brian]

I got a cupcake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, not really.  It was a doughnut.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Brian

[qicat]

2 minutes ago, Brian said:

I got a cupcake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, not really.  It was a doughnut.

 of course you did

 

 

[EmeraldHead]

7 hours ago, taoguy said:

 

Have you tested out his claims?

 

Absolutus to find out if he is genuine.

 

had any experience after following his instructions?

He didn't make any claims of his own. He repeated like a nerd what was said before many times. He didn't anything from writing so much on that reddit....no offence to anyone but I think only new age people think he was exagerrating. These kind of people never experienced what I mentioned a bit above and probably think John Chang is a midget because they cannot sense his pool of yang chi.

 

It comes down to mental strength. You work out it out up there the mental body. Then you can think of travelling in space, becoming FBI super agent or jumping from an airplane naked chest.

 

So not enlightement but you become as human as you can get from it. Then transcending to enlightement (growing up) is incredibly easy then if you're a normal human which has the mental body equivalent to that guy from lord of the rings movies, the one with his precious...if you want to do that altogether.

 

EDIT: I meant to respond in 1-2 lines. Don't take the length of my response to emphasize or mean anything.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Arramu

[doc benway]

23 hours ago, qicat said:

 

 

No, not even a maple-bacon donut, but that cupcake?

I'm starting to feel a little fuzzy all over...

 

[doc benway]

On 6/12/2017 at 0:29 AM, taoguy said:

Curious, because I wish to seek advice about meditation...

 

By Jhana, I mean the Mahayana-sutra-defined Jhana, hard jhanas, not the soft-jhana or vippasana-style jhanas defined by new-age buddhism that do not adhere to the sutra's definitions. I mean:

 

1. Firstly raising kundalini to open the 8 extraordinary channels, front and back, middle, left and right for physical agitations/karmic-formations/fabrications (through jhanas 1 and 2)
2. Then entering dark night through mental agitations/karmic-formations/fabrications (through jhanas 3 and 4).

 

Anyone?  Would love some advice on how to get there.

 

On 6/12/2017 at 8:12 AM, taoguy said:

 

I follow the teachings of a late Chan master who taught zazen meditation. But I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly. That's why I'm seeking someone who's experienced jhana.

 

Do you have any specific questions about your practice you would like to share?

 

There are several folks here that have a fair bit of meditative training and experience and would love to help.

Who knows, something may click.

A good student can learn from anyone and any situation, you never know what is going to lead to an insight.

Simply asking questions will get more response than pre-qualifying those who are permitted to answer.

 

When we begin questioning each other about our experiences and accomplishments, setting expectations and prerequisites, most people tend to shut down and pull away. The more profound and beneficial our meditative practices and experiences, the more we tend to treat them as precious and sacred. We are generally hesitant to discuss such things publicly, especially among anonymous strangers, many of whom tend to challenge and criticize, historically (at least that's how I feel). What could be a collaborative experience can easily become defensive and guarded. 

 

Just because an anonymous stranger in a chat room tells you they have experienced jhanas does not mean it is so.

Furthermore, if you have not yet had the experience how can you assess the veracity of their claims?

No one can really ever know the level or experience of another, although there are some clues one can glean.

Far easier in person than online.

 

If you are serious about getting "there" you will do far better with a credible teacher, be it in person or online, than the Buddhism room on DaoBums... That way you're more likely to be confident that they have had the experiences you require. That said, the answer you need could be right here for the asking.

 

Good luck on your path!

 

 

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, steve said:

 

No, not even a maple-bacon donut, but that cupcake?

I'm starting to feel a little fuzzy all over...

 

 

Yeah, what would life be like without the cupcakes?

 

[taoguy]

9 hours ago, steve said:

 

 

Do you have any specific questions about your practice you would like to share?

 

There are several folks here that have a fair bit of meditative training and experience and would love to help.

Who knows, something may click.

A good student can learn from anyone and any situation, you never know what is going to lead to an insight.

Simply asking questions will get more response than pre-qualifying those who are permitted to answer.

 

When we begin questioning each other about our experiences and accomplishments, setting expectations and prerequisites, most people tend to shut down and pull away. The more profound and beneficial our meditative practices and experiences, the more we tend to treat them as precious and sacred. We are generally hesitant to discuss such things publicly, especially among anonymous strangers, many of whom tend to challenge and criticize, historically (at least that's how I feel). What could be a collaborative experience can easily become defensive and guarded. 

 

Just because an anonymous stranger in a chat room tells you they have experienced jhanas does not mean it is so.

Furthermore, if you have not yet had the experience how can you assess the veracity of their claims?

No one can really ever know the level or experience of another, although there are some clues one can glean.

Far easier in person than online.

 

If you are serious about getting "there" you will do far better with a credible teacher, be it in person or online, than the Buddhism room on DaoBums... That way you're more likely to be confident that they have had the experiences you require. That said, the answer you need could be right here for the asking.

 

Good luck on your path!

 

 

 

I see people's characters and their insights compared to my own practice, but of course it's not the best judgement... Still better than none haha  I would love a teacher frankly, but there is so much erroneous stuff out there and the real teachers are situated too far away from me but I'd definitely go once I have the schedule down. I agree about learning, that's why I'm always open for debate or other perspectives, provided they show that they walk the talk.

 

I guess my question would be...

 

Let's say we do non-dwelling meditation. Why is it that when I stay in a state of observation, yes, I do get some bliss, but there's nothing beyond that? I do get to points where I don't feel my body for example. But there's always this 'plateau' or point where nothing goes on. It feels as if I hit a stumbling block each time.

 

Surely some kind of deeper-layer stuff should come up. But it's not really doing it.

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, taoguy said:

 

 I would love a teacher frankly, but there is so much erroneous stuff out there and the real teachers are situated too far away from me but I'd definitely go once I have the schedule down. I agree about learning, that's why I'm always open for debate or other perspectives, provided they show that they walk the talk.

 

I don`t have any answer about your specific question, just an idea.  What about online programs?  Depending on what you`re drawn toward, there are reputable teachers online who offer various trainings.  It`s arguably not as good as in-person instruction, but perhaps a step up from trying to piece together a practice from what you hear here.

 

Not that people here aren`t pretty wonderful -- there are a lot of expert practitioners of various systems here.  But I tend to use to Daobums as a resource to find out about things, and then explore further on my own.  For instance, I heard about Zapchen here and ended up working over Skype with a Zapchen practitioner for several months.  I heard about Bon teachings, from Steve actually, and took several online workshops through Glidewing with a recognized teacher. If money is a factor, some teachings are available free. 

[Spotless]

On 6/11/2017 at 9:29 PM, taoguy said:

Curious, because I wish to seek advice about meditation...

 

By Jhana, I mean the Mahayana-sutra-defined Jhana, hard jhanas, not the soft-jhana or vippasana-style jhanas defined by new-age buddhism that do not adhere to the sutra's definitions. I mean:

 

1. Firstly raising kundalini to open the 8 extraordinary channels, front and back, middle, left and right for physical agitations/karmic-formations/fabrications (through jhanas 1 and 2)
2. Then entering dark night through mental agitations/karmic-formations/fabrications (through jhanas 3 and 4).

 

Anyone?  Would love some advice on how to get there.

You will need a strong ego:

 

There are two types of "ego"s

 

one is self identified and it has many "I"s

 

the other has relaxed its willfulness and stands firmly in trust in the grace of the All and Everything

 

Gettng to the second - may well take some real work - very few are actually interested - nearly everyone that is really interested is not interested and of those very few are REALLY INTERESTED. Of those that are REAALY INTERESTED they most often require a perfect person (one that does not exist) and so they walk by sign after sign because they don't like the color of it or the texture or its size.

 

The great work is simple - it requires the application of simple things regularly and the constant monitoring of your armpits, noise and assumptions. You are a walking Chinese finger puzzle blown from one tornado to another - this is what you have to work with.

 

Today you don't have carrots to deal with - now you have to deal with ten thousand YouTube videos - they teach how to become a great Rabbit. Your request in this post is how to go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the Rabit. It's not such a shiney cool path - most would call it boring - even the ones that have Awakened don't like this path. 

 

i don't know of a fast way.

 

Some key components of what took place here specifically regarding your inquiry on jhanas:

 

Somehow the creation of a firm desire to know for yourself what you have come to see as valuable to become or unveil.

 

Finding a key teaching and putting the books down and "immersing your self in practice" - initially for me it was Raja Yoga.

Immersion in the sense of 2-8+ hours a day of meditation with some posture work as well 1-2 hours. Vegetarian or vegan.

 Zero alcohol, drugs, stimulants, (practically) no sex (I did not do it for semen retention at all).

 

A very real understanding that you will attain siddhi and you will disregard them or at least not (try not) to become identified with them. Rabbits node their head to this but do not understand this. It you want to reach what you have inquired about this must be understood to your core.

 

upon attainment of certain higher clarity you must hear and follow your tragedies and triumphs - your foundation is laid and their is now no sanctity in ignorance. You watch your rants and the folly everywhere - and it wears you raw - you learn to walk with no skin.

 

The foundation makes this possible.

 

Practice at times comes back - its intense - you know it - you assimilate at a rate far faster than before - the extreme odd squeeze of inner vs outer life - relative and emergent natural essence - its humiliating while of extreme cristaline clarity and beautiful light.

 

and like a walk in the park - one day grace comes and the suffering has vanished.

 

nothing you ever read prepared you for it - nothing was even close - it takes years to find words- and years more (of practice)

as the bodies grow and aclimate and residuals fall away. 

 

For many siddhis come now and these take them - like walking on gems and living in light - they find peace and words in these

attainments.

 

with regard to your inquiry - these are jewelry - even more - like chocolate served to your nose in a golden bowl - and you can breath it in and share it through your eyes with others - they love the glow and it's easy to go with.

 

the root has no bottom - is in-conceivable - it is ever unfolding - only the books trap you, the ambrosia of knowing and now seeing. 

 

The lenses are off but the expansion has only just begun - the word "channel" is like an electron to a planet - what you conceptualized as "channel" is humorously underscoring what is happening - and it is a happening beyond all proportion.

 

Beyond this is beyond words.