Hello, I'm a theist and atheist at the same time

[oranssi]

Yes, that is how I define myself. I'm both at the same time, therefore I could as well be none. 

I don't believe in believe. That being said, I believe that we are all transparent to Nature which we humans make part of. All things known and unknown are plenty as they are, so much so that everyone is biased to conserve their own identity that is the manifestation of that which is stranger than we can suppose.

But one thing I know for sure!
I am an animal, I have the same necessities as other beings and there is the unfathomable mystery.

And at this constant contradition lies the conservation of infinity.

Besides that all is poetry, and I like poetry because knowledge without emotion (hence biased) is sterile and has no use.

[Marblehead]

Hello oranssi, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum terms and rules. This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Marblehead and the TDB team

 

 

Hi oranssi, 

 

Yeah, better to "know" than to "believe".

 

You are welcome to jump right in ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forms to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Marblehead

[Limahong]

Hi oranssi,

 

From your introductory indications, are you not potentially/actually a Taoist Bum? Perhaps our Seniors/Elders/Immortals can figure you out better.

 

Are in harmony with yourself? Or are you pulled poles apart by your dualities? Are you grounded despite the "constant contradictions"?

 

When you conserve in "infinity", do you also preserve in the moment?

 

Thank you for starting this thread - but will you be the last to tie it up?

 

I am asking these many questions with the good faith that you will preserve/conserve from now till eternity - your identity.

 

Are you a Taoist linguist? Why? "Besides that all is poetry, and I like poetry because knowledge without emotion (hence biased) is sterile and has no use".

 

Like your introduction - engaging.

 

- LimA

[rene]

hi oranssi

anybody who can do 'both, same time' is fine by me. (-: welcome!

[Limahong]

Hi WuDao,

 

Howdy?

 

"Both, same time" - as in juggling?

 

Or holding two opposing thoughts in the mind at any one time?

 

- LimA

 

[rene]

8 hours ago, Limahong said:

Hi WuDao,

 

Howdy?

 

"Both, same time" - as in juggling?

 

Or holding two opposing thoughts in the mind at any one time?

 

- LimA

 

not juggling, thats akin to hopping on one foot then the other rather than standing on both, same time, two places

 

seemingly opposing, but unboundaried ideas aren't

 

warm regards

 

 

 

[Limahong]

WuDao - warm regards to you too.

 

The juggling I have in mind has both of my feet firmly planted on the ground with 'horse' stance; and two balls always in the air.

 

I believe that it qualifies for your "standing on both, same time, two places" because -

(i) I am standing firmly on both my legs temporally.

(ii) My right leg is positioned spatially differently from my left.

 

My juggling is quite similar to your archery? Yes/no? 

 

Please say 'yes' and I will "move along". What are "droids"?

 

Have noted your 1457 posts thus far; have you grown with TDB? 

 

I definitely have even though I am now here for only a short period. 

 

At TDB - I am a born again bum eating buns (from many recipes).

 

- LimA

 

[rene]

32 minutes ago, Limahong said:

WuDao - warm regards to you too.

 

The juggling I have in mind has both of my feet firmly planted on the ground with 'horse' stance; and two balls always in the air.

 

if you dont lean back so far, that wont happen

 

32 minutes ago, Limahong said:

I believe that it qualifies for your "standing on both, same time, two places" because -

(i) I am standing firmly on both my legs temporally.

(ii) My right leg is positioned spatially differently from my left.

 

my 'both, same time' refers to something else; but yours sounds like a good idea too!

 

32 minutes ago, Limahong said:

My juggling is quite similar to your archery? Yes/no? 

 

no

 

32 minutes ago, Limahong said:

Please say 'yes' and I will "move along". What are "droids"?

 

star wars reference, from a galaxy far far away

 

32 minutes ago, Limahong said:

Have noted your 1457 posts thus far; have you grown with TDB? 

 

no. i have declined into almost a vanishing mist. (-:

 

32 minutes ago, Limahong said:

I definitely have even though I am now here for only a short period. 

 

At TDB - I am a born again bum eating buns (from many recipes).

 

- LimA

 

 

yay you! this is a wonderful place to grow and decline. you know:

Both, same time.

 

warm regards

 

[Limahong]

Hi WuDao,

 

Now I am inclined to decline without drawing a line. All - your fault.

 

Soon I will stand inline for social handouts - again your fault.

 

- LimA

[rene]

10 minutes ago, Limahong said:

Hi WuDao,

 

Now I am inclined to decline without drawing a line. All - your fault.

 

Soon I will stand inline for social handouts - again your fault.

 

- LimA

 

glad i could help (-:

[Limahong]

Hi WuDao

 

I am also glad our paths crossed.

 

But of course - to be a successful bum I must decline from the start at TDB.

 

Such wisdom.

 

- LimA

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, WuDao said:

no. i have declined into almost a vanishing mist. (-:

 

 

That gave me a chuckle.

 

[rene]

4 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

That gave me a chuckle.

 

wha?? and not the leaning thing?

ok ok, I'll play nice.

[Marblehead]

Actually, I missed that.  It went "Zoom!", right over my head.

 

Sometimes my elevator doesn't go all the way up to the top floor.

 

[rene]

thats cause you dont have any buttons to push. well, ok, maybe one. or two.

[silent thunder]

11 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Actually, I missed that.  It went "Zoom!", right over my head.

 

Sometimes my elevator doesn't go all the way up to the top floor.

 

I swear... sometimes I get in my elevator and it just giggles at me while we sit there...

[Marblehead]

11 hours ago, WuDao said:

thats cause you dont have any buttons to push. well, ok, maybe one. or two.

Yes, I still have a couple of those buttons.  Please don't push them.

 

[oranssi]

On 2017-6-15 at 10:38 AM, Limahong said:

Hi oranssi,

 

From your introductory indications, are you not potentially/actually a Taoist Bum? Perhaps our Seniors/Elders/Immortals can figure you out better.

 

Are in harmony with yourself? Or are you pulled poles apart by your dualities? Are you grounded despite the "constant contradictions"?

 

When you conserve in "infinity", do you also preserve in the moment?

 

Thank you for starting this thread - but will you be the last to tie it up?

 

I am asking these many questions with the good faith that you will preserve/conserve from now till eternity - your identity.

 

Are you a Taoist linguist? Why? "Besides that all is poetry, and I like poetry because knowledge without emotion (hence biased) is sterile and has no use".

 

Like your introduction - engaging.

 

- LimA

 

Hello Limahong, my position is difficult to describe, but is very simple. It is so difficult to describe that it can only be lived

 

I don't really know what to say to "justify" my stance.. But I can try a little, by exposing a bit of my past.

 

I am a self-taught enthusiast on philosophical daoism. Some 20 years ago I first read about Tao te Ching and understood nothing. From then 'til now I might have read it dozens of times and I don't get the last chapters mostly because it has no interest for me. The first chapters are what it is all about, in my opinion, and that (I think) I get it. More about this later. The last ones I see it to be more about a kind of "derivative recommendations" of the mystery.

 

Since then there was always the elusive true truth, that I guess everyone tries to get in his / her own soulsearch. Of course I'm an enthusiast of the traditional martial arts (self-taught) and the like. But my curiousity took me to the inner confabulations of the mind. I studied various types of meditations, one of which I am relatively successful and that is astral projections. After many adventuring in this astral "themepark" and because my mental mechanism was influenced by daoism philosophy, although I didn't understood completely, I came to understand it thru the practice of meditation.

 

If I am grounded despite the constant contradictions? No problem. Or better, it is a problem, but it is not a problem being a problem. You see, I'm attempting in describing a fractal. That is what everything is, a fractal, until you reach the unfathomable mystery. And this I realised could only be attained if I become mystery, and mystery only hold itself if there is paradox. So I am paradox, I am alpha and omega. Well since I'm writing this... and this is the internets.. I am in a state of nirvana or samadhi. This is not only intelectually understood. Of course life gets me sometimes and I get sad, but I remind me (thru the aphorisms I write for myself) that the joke is on me by me (God, Infinty, Paradox, Universe). So in the end I realise that this all makes part of the same mystery, and so I accept because it's me. How can I not accept me?! But it is not any kind of acceptance. It is not resigned. It is a desireful acceptance. It is one that makes me feel transparent.  It couldn't be any different when it's supposed to hurt, the script says it hurts.

 

I see the Universe / Infinity / Dao / Mystery / Nature as a child that is playing with all its toys. When the child picks me, the house and the car, am I the child or is the child me? To be a paradox it has to be a make-believe, but it isn't any kind of make-believe. It is an unfeigned make-believe.How can I attain illumination? Maybe no one told me it is supposed to be difficult (unfortunatly I never had the opportunity to have a teacher). 

 

I hope people don't take serious what I have written, and I really really hope you got a laugh out of this, because this is the Cosmic Joke.

 

 

 

 

[Limahong]

"Not one raindrop has ever fallen in the wrong spot... there are no accidents.

Everything I Love and Everything I Despise manifest from the Same Source.

No I'm not serious.  I'm never serious.  I am however, completely sincere.

I don't believe everything I think.

stop glorifying busy."

=========================================================

Hi silent thunder,

 

This thread is rooted in paradoxes. I have cited the above from you and have it looked at from its Taoist flip-side per some of its key words. There are two strikethrough. The ensuing outcome pertains to this:

 

Some raindrops have fallen in the wrong spot... there are some accidents.

Everything I Love and Everything I Despise manifest from Different Sources.

Yes I'm not serious.  I'm ever serious.  I am however, incompletely sincere.

I don't believe everything I think.

Start glorifying idling.

 

Any comment from the flip-side 'Taoistically'?

 

- LimA

 

[oranssi]

I would say the original citation and the modified one leads to the same place, although different paths.

 

edit:

The modified one could be the interpretation of what surrounds me from my point of view as human being, that suffers and desires. The clinching of the ego makes sin real, like raindrops falling in the wrong pot. But by clinching to the ego I am not sincere, nor am I sincere if I refuse my ego. I would say, only by being infinitesimal, that is (what I would call) transparent.

Edited June 16, 2017 by oranssi
adding some color

[silent thunder]

4 hours ago, Limahong said:

"Not one raindrop has ever fallen in the wrong spot... there are no accidents.

Everything I Love and Everything I Despise manifest from the Same Source.

No I'm not serious.  I'm never serious.  I am however, completely sincere.

I don't believe everything I think.

stop glorifying busy."

=========================================================

Hi silent thunder,

 

This thread is rooted in paradoxes. I have cited the above from you and have it looked at from its Taoist flip-side per some of its key words. There are two strikethrough. The ensuing outcome pertains to this:

 

Some raindrops have fallen in the wrong spot... there are some accidents.

Everything I Love and Everything I Despise manifest from Different Sources.

Yes I'm not serious.  I'm ever serious.  I am however, incompletely sincere.

I don't believe everything I think.

Start glorifying idling.

 

Any comment from the flip-side 'Taoistically'?

 

- LimA

 

aye...

I seem to be made entirely of small things.

while always part of something large.

 

 

while I would rather  remain silent or say something better than silence.

I fail at this consistently.

accidentally, gloriously... rarely silently

though thunder like light

persists

the intention abides...

idly persistent, despite beliefs

 

oh look, it's raining

 

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

3 hours ago, silent thunder said:

aye...

I seem to be made entirely of small things.

while always part of something large.

 

 

This reminds me of the last lines of a Leonard Cohen poem, Stories of the Street

 

The stories of the street are mine, the Spanish voices laugh.
The Cadillacs go creeping now through the night and the poison gas,
And I lean from my window sill in this old hotel I chose,
Yes one hand on my suicide, one hand on the rose.

 

I know you've heard it's over now and war must surely come,
The cities they are broke in half and the middle men are gone.
But let me ask you one more time, O children of the dusk,
All these hunters who are shrieking now oh do they speak for us?
And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?
Why are the armies marching still that were coming home to me?

 

O lady with your legs so fine O stranger at your wheel,
You are locked into your suffering and your pleasures are the seal.
The age of lust is giving birth, and both the parents ask
The nurse to tell them fairy tales on both sides of the glass.
And now the infant with his cord is hauled in like a kite,
And one eye filled with blueprints, one eye filled with night.

 

O come with me my little one, we will find that farm
And grow us grass and apples there and keep all the animals warm.
And if by chance I wake at night and I ask you who I am,
O take me to the slaughterhouse, I will wait there with the lamb.
With one hand on the hexagram and one hand on the girl
I balance on a wishing well that all men call the world.

 

We are so small between the stars, so large against the sky,
And lost among the subway crowds I try to catch your eye.

 

Leonard Cohen

[Limahong]

58 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

We are so small between the stars ...

 

Hi liminal_luke

 

But pretty big between the ears. Yes/no?

 

- LimA

[Limahong]

10 hours ago, silent thunder said:

oh look, it's raining

 

Hi silent thunder,

 

It appears that you are nicely settled as a balanced Taoist. 

You strike me as a positive person - simply, light-heartedly,  ... as you tiptoe through the tulips - as reflected thus:

 

"I seem to be made entirely of small things.

while always part of something large.

 

while I would rather remain silent or say something better than silence.

 

I fail at this consistently.

accidentally, gloriously... rarely silently

though thunder like light

persists

 

the intention abides...

idly persistent, despite beliefs

 

oh look, it's raining"

 

There are four pairs of dichotomies in the italicised. You seems to have internalised duality into your being.

 

I too have a positive attitude re failures. I tried my best in my life processes. But when failure comes knocking, I learn and then move forward.

 

I also like rain thus:

(i) 

 

 

 

(ii) 

 

 

A great weekend.

 

- LimA

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Limahong]

16 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Leonard Cohen poem - Stories of the Street

 

Hi liminal_luke,

 

Let's introduced Leonard Cohen a little thus (Wikipedia) to those who had not heard of him:

Leonard Norman Cohen (September 21, 1934 – November 7, 2016) was a Canadian singer, songwriter, musician, poet, novelist, and painter. His work explored religion, politics, isolation, sexuality, and personal relationships.

 

Thank you for reintroducing me again to Cohen. I first came across him through his song Hallelujah. At the start, he strike me as pretty dark. But over the years, I begin to see hope in his works and beauty in his perspectives on the yin dimension.

 

I have not come across his above poem till now - thanks to you. It is copied here with highlights - my own identifications with its contents:

=========================================================================

Stories of the Street

 

The stories of the street are mine, the Spanish voices laugh.

The Cadillacs go creeping now through the night and the poison gas,

And I lean from my window sill in this old hotel I chose,

Yes one hand on my suicide, one hand on the rose.

 

I know you've heard it's over now and war must surely come,

The cities they are broke in half and the middle men are gone.

But let me ask you one more time, O children of the dusk,

All these hunters who are shrieking now oh do they speak for us?

And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?

Why are the armies marching still that were coming home to me?

 

O lady with your legs so fine O stranger at your wheel,

You are locked into your suffering and your pleasures are the seal.

The age of lust is giving birth, and both the parents ask

The nurse to tell them fairy tales on both sides of the glass.

And now the infant with his cord is hauled in like a kite,

And one eye filled with blueprints, one eye filled with night.

 

O come with me my little one, we will find that farm

And grow us grass and apples there and keep all the animals warm.

And if by chance I wake at night and I ask you who I am,

O take me to the slaughterhouse, I will wait there with the lamb.

With one hand on the hexagram and one hand on the girl

I balance on a wishing well that all men call the world.

 

We are so small between the stars, so large against the sky,

And lost among the subway crowds I try to catch your eye.

 

Leonard Cohen

 

===========================================================================

 

To me those highlighted pertain to the yin dimension; and those highlighted pertain to hope as in new beginnings.

 

A good weekend.

 

- LimA

 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Limahong
Correct typo error.