Religious Neigong

[Kongming]

Of the various methods that fall under the various headings of qigong, daoyin, neigong or other related terms which are those most explicitly associated with Daoist religious or spiritual aims historically and today? We know that qigong is sometimes lumped into categories such as medical, martial, and religious, some associated with Daoism and some with Buddhism, etc.

 

So to your knowledge which are the most important neigong practices associated with Daoist internal cultivation and religious aims? Which if any have a connection to traditional Daoist meditation and/or neidan?

[voidisyinyang]

http://qigongmaster.com is from the origin of Taoist alchemy training - Mt. Qingcheng

 

There are various lineages from that locale - Zong gong had their training there but then got declared illegal.

 

Wang Liping is from that same Dragon Gate lineage, etc.

 

But still the academic analysis will not focus much on that training - the pdf I posted gives the training details. https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/04/10/idiot-s-guide-to-taoist-alchemy/

 

Religion means "to bind" - yoga means "to yoke" - Taoist yoga - full lotus cave meditation for 49 days - no food, no sleep - people can argue about angels on pin heads and call it religion or just do the meditation full lotus training and not even call it religious. haha. Religion is a western term. Call it "neigong" - or "neidan" or whatever the latest Western marketing term is: Daoyin or alchemy, etc.

 

But if you want a good academic overview - this free book 

Daoism in the Twentieth Century: Between Eternity and Modernity

Author:

Palmer, David A.;
Liu, Xun

Editor:

Palmer, David A.;
Liu, Xun

Publication Date:

02-15-2012

- http://escholarship.org/uc/item/13w4k8d4#page-8

Daoism in the Twentieth Century

[voidisyinyang]

There is an excellent essay on the connection of philosophical Taoism to religious Neidan training - by Zhang Guangbao

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/225213533/Taoism

 

p. 183, originally published 2006, Beijing.

 

Inner alchemy from philosophical Taoism.

 

So he makes the very crucial insight that "yuan qi" actually is "jingqi" - and he cites the evidence for this.

 

So just as I have argued in my pdf - the alchemy practice is the shen turned around so it is "below" the jing - thereby creating the qi - and this is the eternal process.

 

He states indeed - this "jingqi" is the primordial cosmic yuanqi - from this process of the shen being contained internally along with the jing to bring out the qi energy.

 

Quote

Lao-Tzu used jing for distinguishing the Tao and Vacuity.

 

citing chapter 21 of Tao Te Ching.

 

Now - he then states this is philosophy but not science. My pdf actually explains this is the hidden momentum of light when it is "turned around" as "heavy" light or quantum relativity light - the "noncommutative phase" as momentum that is not conserved. The light harvests the virtual imaginary mass particles as a reverse spacetime vortex energy - or quantum relative entropy - negentropy - the Emptiness as the jingqi or yuan qi.

 

Quote

In other words, only though jingqi or the original qi, does the Tao give birth to all things and link physics and metaphysics....The jingqi in the human body could communicate with that of the universe.

 

 

[exorcist_1699]

If you can refine your qi into a  crystal clear , emptied Mind , separated and very different from your daily consciousness  like there is having another  Mind awaken from a dreaming ( your daily consciousness now becomes a  status  of dreaming due to  its relatively under clear-mindedness ) , then you can understand why neigong , which is supposed to be a  qi 's practice ( gong) , gets its religious implication ; unable to do so  means your failure in  understanding why Taoism at some stage  turns religious  .  

 

It also means, in terms of the degree of clear-mindedness , you should at least try experiencing 4 states :

 

1) Dreaming

2) Daily consciousness and reasoning

3) A crystal clear, persistent emptied mind arisen and detached from 2)

4) Awakening , which is further awakened  stage  comes from  state  3)

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by exorcist_1699

[Kongming]

Two further questions arise:

 

1) What is the relation, if any, between specifically Daoist/religious/spiritual neigong and the ming 命 aspect of neidan? Are they unrelated, cross over, etc.? I am not sure where he got it but Damo Mitchell puts forward a categorization wherein qigong is more outer and houtian/postheaven, neigong is a more advanced and inward methodology that has both houtian and xiatian or preheaven work, and neidan is the most advanced/inward and entirely works with preheaven jing/qi/shen. Is this accurate?

 

2) What is the methodology of the Secret of the Golden Flower, namely "turning the light around", and does it bear any relation or interrelation with neigong?

[voidisyinyang]

5 hours ago, Kongming said:

Two further questions arise:

 

1) What is the relation, if any, between specifically Daoist/religious/spiritual neigong and the ming 命 aspect of neidan? Are they unrelated, cross over, etc.? I am not sure where he got it but Damo Mitchell puts forward a categorization wherein qigong is more outer and houtian/postheaven, neigong is a more advanced and inward methodology that has both houtian and xiatian or preheaven work, and neidan is the most advanced/inward and entirely works with preheaven jing/qi/shen. Is this accurate?

 

2) What is the methodology of the Secret of the Golden Flower, namely "turning the light around", and does it bear any relation or interrelation with neigong?

 On the first question - I just read this blog post by someone who had joined this forum a year or two ago but left fairly soon I think - he didn't post much. I could see why. He critiques Damo Mitchell here https://crankydaoist.wordpress.com/2014/01/

 

In terms of your question - there was a huge debate/discussion about this topic and it relates to what Kevin Wallbridge in that blog post is raising - but to give specific examples - I recommend reading the book that has won awards - David A. Palmer, "Qigong Fever." So I mentioned to you before Zhong Gong training at Qingchengshan - but Zhong Gong was part of the qigong fever of the 1980s - despite the advanced training being neidan cave meditation a la Dragon Gate. http://qigongmaster.com is part of the Dragon  Gate lineage but calls it qigong and again Zhang, Yuanming is an advanced neidan master. Also - Yan Xin, who was a top Shaolin alchemy master, was called a qigong master.

 

So for example when Yan Xin did healing in China often the crowd meditating could not understand his lecture - he spoke a different dialect. But that didn't matter as it was the energy of his words that had the effect and the intention of the people meditating. So Yan Xin called it a "virtual information" field which is to say a reverse time or negative mass field - it is "preheaven" energy as with these other qigong masters I have mentioned.

 

Now obviously there are many people on this forum who adamantly insist that hearing the term "qigong" means false or deviation. haha. So that is the end of discussion for those people. And as Kevin Wallbridge, with his extensive training in China - he, in that blog post, basically explains why this "neidan" or "neigong" suddenly became the favored term, etc. Another example might be that the Chinese government cracked down on qigong except the few chosen schools. So it's not that Damo Mitchell is wrong but just that something called qigong does not mean it is not neidan, etc. We can't just rely on semantics.

 

Anyway on the second question - I did a blog post on this that I deleted but I was basically agreeing with another blog post that someone posted - I'll find it again. http://atouchofancientszhouyi.blogspot.com/2014/10/a-study-of-ancient-way-tao-circulation.html

 

I think that is it....

 

yeah - that's it. So if you study the Taoist  Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality book it states to start with you want to see light in the center of the brain. But then it states that most people can not do this because their heart is not pure and so therefore the small universe meditation has to be practiced with celibacy.

 

So what that really means is that the heart is the source of the light but upon puberty the conscious left brain takes over and the qi has separated from the shen - and so most people are no longer pure enough. So in alchemy not only is the light "turned around" by stopping the loss of spirit going out of the eyes (2/3rds of the brain's energy is from this eye energy) but also the heart spirit is the fire that has to be put under the water to restore the qi energy.

 

So the problem is that just visualizing is not enough since only the Quick Fire breathing has the power to raise the water up above the fire - and that is the key secret - for the alchemy. There is both a raising up of water and a lowering of fire in order to "turn the light around."

 

My pdf has more details.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

On another forum - someone posted from my deleted blog. on "Turning the light around" and Damo Mitchell:

 

The Alchemical Secret of De Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony: Heavenly Streams Damo Mitchell Neigong

-by drew hempel

".....So the thing is that for a black hole time is infinite as frequency goes to zero with the energy sucked into this breaking down of three dimensional spacetime. For a white hole time is zero as frequency is infinite but the spacetime is reversed 180 degrees. Because quantum physics based on the Law of Pythagoras is the foundation of reality then, as Stephen Hawking has declared recently, there is no logarithmic singularity to black holes - instead the information gets apparently scrambled. Hawking said you would have to be able to "predict the future" to know how the information turns out for the white hole energy.

But in alchemy that is precisely what happens because alchemy works as complementary opposites of time and frequency so that zero time is the Emptiness with infinite frequency as the shen energy. When the shen energy is very strong, like a laser that circles in on it self as gamma rays, it creates new time as new matter - wavelength and momentum. So this can not be modeled directly by Western science because quantum entanglement is noncommutative - it's also based on the complementary opposites of time and frequency.

So the direction in spacetime changes the value of the time and the frequency. So as space expands from a longer "measuring" time then the matter as quantum entanglement energy diverges from the classical matter trajectory. The electrons or photons, etc. stay entangled from their own perspective of the Emptiness but in terms of the classical external measurement there has been a "collapse" of the quantum entanglement into a trajectory that is not the same as the entanglement.

So we can say from the perspective of alchemy that Time is the Emptiness and Frequency is the Shen while Wavelength is the Jing and Momentum is the Qi. The "yuan qi" is then the momentum as phase velocity that is the speed of light squared. The complementary opposites of time and frequency then reverse the entropy of jing and qi. If the light as shen or frequency is turned around then time is also turned around and you get negentropy instead of entropy. Jing is time as entropy but it can be turned around to change fate. This is the secret of putting the shen or frequency as the reverse direction to wavelength or jing as physical time. The result is the infinite quantum entanglement as the speed of light squared - the light turning itself around to create the phase velocity of speed of light squared as the "pilot wave."

It's a very simple equation that explains alchemy and Western science - Shen is to Emptiness as Qi is to Jing or Frequency is to Time as Momentum is to Wavelength. Here's how I described it last December:

Yang shen is actually a spacetime transformation of a black hole into a white hole.

Think of gamma radiation - you resonate gamma radiation and it creates physical matter.

The zero-point energy is creating "virtual photons" all the time - these virtual photons are black hole photons.

But the gamma radiation as virtual photons can be "captured" as information within this spacetime - you are turning the black hole into a white hole.

Since that radiation is now captured (through meditation) it then actually creates new matter as new atoms - it goes from infinite frequency as energy and zero time - into a slower frequency with actual time - which is to say it has a finite momentum with actual wavelength - it is in other words "matter."

That energy comes from pure information of your soul - and so the deepest level of information of our soul creates a perfect new body as our perfect physical body when our "yuan jing" energy was completely purified during celibacy and the growth of our physical bodies.

That process can create multiple "yang shen" bodies - but the final process is to return back to the original black hole source of the energy which is just stored up potential virtual photon energy. It will transform again in a different spacetime.

that's why people can have visions of the future - because our current physical body is actually a deep holographic projection of infinite energy and zero time - anything existing in 3D spacetime is just a temporary manifestation of the infinite potential energy.

So in relativistic terms - the yang shen bodies are then slight alterations of 3D spacetime - witnessed by different people in different locations, etc. but all of our 3D spacetime experiences are manifestations of this impersonal infinite potential energy in zero time - called "Yuan Qi" since we can not see this energy and it is formless.

You can study the final chapter of Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality for more details."

 

[voidisyinyang]

then the proton-proton superconducting plasma is the Yuan Jing. The Yuan Qi is then the superluminal antigravity reversal of spacetime - the spin or backwards precession as a phonon "hidden momentum" energy that is also information - the formless awareness as information-energy that guides spacetime. The yin qi is then the ionized electrons themselves - separated out from the water in the micron-ultrasound electromagnetic resonance of the collagen microtubules of the mind-body. The Yuan Shen is then when the yin qi is built up enough that the Yuan Qi energy is activated from turning the light around - and so light can be seen externally outside the body. Whereas the light seen internally in the body is the "relative void" from the yin qi energy creating redox reactions of the mitochondria.

[voidisyinyang]

Reversing the time as 5D phase-shift is the self-awareness of spacetime itself as negative entropy: alchemy based on relativized light with faster-than-light non-local "phase waves." That noncommutative phase-space is the 5th dimension described by Paul S. Wesson, that creates the Big Bang, when the energy of the 4th dimension is infinite frequency at zero time. Turning the light around as alchemy meditation accesses the 5D phase-shift since light has no "rest mass." Matter harmonizes with light via the reverse time superluminal phase-shift called the Law of Phase Harmony.

 

Quote

"So in 5D all particles behave like photons and everything in the universe is in causal contact with everything else.

an oscillatory phase, which might (if a person is so inclined) be identified with... spiritual modes of existence...separation
between points is zero, so all of the events in the world are in (5D) causal contact. In other words, everything is occurring simultaneously. " Paul S. Wesson, astrophysicist

 

Near-field imaging with sound waves compelling demonstrates the inadequacy of pictorial realism and promotes more abstract views of the reality displayed.

A comparison of sound and matter waves clarifies that these [noncommutative] limitations exist in principle.

2016: de Broglie clocks as synchronization: a tangible model of how mass emerges.

matter waves are locally in phase with the particle clocks (de Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony).

The clock runs forever so it's self-sustaining (consciousness-energy). It resonates with the quantum vacuum.

The harmonic beats creates dynamic energy. So then you have a "phase particle" that can be faster than the speed of light - superluminal - and a "mass particle" that is slower than the speed of light as the "group wave" of the "phase wave." The beats of the phase wave then are "in resonance" with the quantum vacuum - and so create mass from the massless field, explaining the Higgs mechanism.

"Universal coherence" - a "mind boggling outlook."

Coherence as consciousness.

"Ghost Tones"

Manfred Euler is a Professor Emeritus of Physics at the University of Kiel.

Edited June 18, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[Kongming]

So are there any particular sets that come to mind which would fit into the category I mentioned initially, namely qigong/neigong with a specifically Daoist spiritual orientation rather than martial or medical?

 

Has anyone read the book "Qigong Empowerment" which has a section devoted to supposedly Daoist qigong? If so is this book worth purchasing?

 

How about the whole Kunlun/Jenny Lamb's "Yigong" exercise? What is the goal of these sorts of practices and how do they relate, if at all, to the higher goals of neidan?

 

How about Feng Zhiqiang's "Hunyuan Qigong"? I know he is mostly known for martial arts, but I've been practicing this set for 2 or 3 years now and have had some powerful experiences with it. Is this known to have purely spiritual aims or any relation to the goals of neidan, even if in a preparatory capacity? 

[voidisyinyang]

the process is the aim.

 

You always have a spirit in you. Westernized materialists don't realize this except for biophoton science.

 

I have seen ghosts. We all have a spirit, shaped like a human, inside us.

 

spiritual masters can create spirits to heal people. I have seen this done.