Tai Chi is a Bastardization of Daoism

[kpodhayski]

Just now, Daeluin said:

 

Yes, for some types of forests. And this is a great example of healthy use of fire.

 

I had hoped it would be clear that the type of fire I am speaking about it, is the fire of man waging war on nature.

 

 

Do you have something against healing cancer?

 

Are you being metaphorical regarding cancer? It is hard to tell since there is a lot of talk of magik Tai chi.

[Daeluin]

Just now, kpodhayski said:

 

Are you being metaphorical regarding cancer? It is hard to tell since there is a lot of talk of magik Tai chi.

 

No.

[Wu Ming Jen]

The real question is how many people have cured their cancer. I met a lady tonight who had cancer twice and beat it. It is not the method it is the intent and will of oneself that overcomes adversary in any form.

[kpodhayski]

Just now, Daeluin said:

 

No.

 

OK.

 

No, I have nothing against healing cancer. But Tai Chi does not heal cancer, or light fires, or move trains, or make people collapse from a distance.

 

Chuang Tzu:

Shun asked (his attendant) Khang, saying, 'Can I get the Tâo and hold it as mine?' The reply was, 'Your body is not your own to hold;-- how then can you get and hold the Tâo?' Shun resumed, 'If my body be not mine to possess and hold, who holds it?' Khang said, 'It is the bodily form entrusted to you by Heaven and Earth. Life is not yours to hold. It is the blended harmony (of the Yin and Yang), entrusted to you by Heaven and Earth. Your nature, constituted as it is, is not yours to hold. It is entrusted to you by Heaven and Earth to act in accordance with it.

[Daeluin]

1 minute ago, kpodhayski said:

 

OK.

 

No, I have nothing against healing cancer. But Tai Chi does not heal cancer, or light fires, or move trains, or make people collapse from a distance.

 

Right, people do these things, using tools.

 

1 minute ago, kpodhayski said:

 

Chuang Tzu:

Shun asked (his attendant) Khang, saying, 'Can I get the Tâo and hold it as mine?' The reply was, 'Your body is not your own to hold;-- how then can you get and hold the Tâo?' Shun resumed, 'If my body be not mine to possess and hold, who holds it?' Khang said, 'It is the bodily form entrusted to you by Heaven and Earth. Life is not yours to hold. It is the blended harmony (of the Yin and Yang), entrusted to you by Heaven and Earth. Your nature, constituted as it is, is not yours to hold. It is entrusted to you by Heaven and Earth to act in accordance with it.

 

Yes. And are you saying which ways people are allowed to explore in returning to their nature?

[Wu Ming Jen]

I forgot to mention that tai chi is fake. When a leaf is suspended in mid air in that very moment it is tai chi. Who can last for more than a moment in this very moment? most times people moments are only a reflection of a fleeting moment in the past.

 

Some who I know never left the moment and change with the endless flow balanced like a leaf suspended in mid air.

 

someday I might last 6 min before a wind comes and blows me away from the moment.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Someone mentioned tools. Have you seen  Tai Chi tool box, there is even magic formless stuff in there. But the problem is a tool is merely an extension of ourselves not the tools themselves that are so great, could even be using a certain tool for the wrong purpose screwing things up.

[Daeluin]

I mean, that was sort of the whole point.

[Wu Ming Jen]

It is a great point! sorry to be redundant, you know beating a dead horse and all.

[Wu Ming Jen]

It is all a lie, it just can't be true, there is no way, you have to be kidding me,I don't believe it, Really,I will believe it when I see it. Wait I have seen it so there is no question, life it not a question.what is the question? was there ever a question? what does a question ask another question? Answers make questions and questions make answers I am just glad they get along so well and are never separated.....true love.

[Daeluin]

Well if the dao that is mentioned is not the eternal dao, then pretty much everything ever written or thought of is surely a lie, or bastardization, as well.

[Michael Sternbach]

Ideally, we would be constantly living in accordance with the Dao, and we wouldn't need Taiji or any other Daoist art to attune. But things being the way they are, methods that help us reconnect often come in handy.

 

And being in harmony with the Dao, sometimes great things indeed can be accomplished.

 

A word about desires...

 

Desires aren't bad per se. They are natural, and we have them for good reasons. What matters is how we manage to deal with them.

 

I have watched plenty of people who pretended to be desireless. Most of them even believed it themselves. But it was just a mind f***, after all, as they were in fact shivering with expectation - ready to seize any opportunity that would offer itself.

 

Much better to be honest with yourself and pursue your dreams. Or, in some cases, reach a place where you can truly let them go and be at peace with it. But repression is obstructing the flow of the Dao in yourself.

 

Practicing Taiji is a way to reestablish the flow. Not everybody is interested in developing "superpowers." But if you are, there may be reasons for that too.

 

kpodhayski, I feel that if you were really as content as you claim to be, you wouldn't care so much about what others believe and do...

[Michael Sternbach]

Cancer growths are the result of obstructed life energy. If you manage to reestablish its flow, whether by Taiji or something else, the tumor will vanish.

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, kpodhayski said:

 

No, I have nothing against healing cancer. But Tai Chi does not heal cancer, or light fires, or move trains, or make people collapse from a distance.

 

 

I wouldn`t be so quick to say what cures cancer and what doesn`t.  All sorts of people have cured cancers, including ostensibly incurable cancers, doing all sorts of things.  Who here has entirely fathomed all the mysteries of the human body? Is it so hard to believe that somewhere somebody has cured cancer while perfecting their form in the cool morning air of a local park?   

Edited June 21, 2017 by liminal_luke

[kpodhayski]

7 hours ago, Daeluin said:

 

Right, people do these things, using tools.

 

Yeah. like chemotherapy and changes in diet. But Taii Chi? You have no evidence.

 

Quote

 

 

Yes. And are you saying which ways people are allowed to explore in returning to their nature?

 

Not how they are allowed to, just pointing out their stupidity. I am just "teaching without teaching".

 

When they lose their sense of awe,
people turn to religion.
When they no longer trust themselves,
they begin to depend upon authority.

Therefore the Master steps back
so that people won't be confused.
He teaches without a teaching,
so that people will have nothing to learn.

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by kpodhayski

[kpodhayski]

5 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 Is it so hard to believe that somewhere somebody has cured cancer while perfecting their form in the cool morning air of a local park?   

 

Yes. I do not find it hard to believe, I find no reason to believe it.

 

The Dao, and Tai Chi, are not magic or supernatural or special. You read and believe these stories because people want to take advantage of you and your fears, because you are not content in the lowly places and you want to be special.

 

You know what cures cancer? Not having the knowledge of cancer.

 

The Master gives himself up
to whatever the moment brings.
He knows that he is going to die,
and her has nothing left to hold on to:
no illusions in his mind,
no resistances in his body.
He doesn't think about his actions;
they flow from the core of his being.
He holds nothing back from life;
therefore he is ready for death,
as a man is ready for sleep
after a good day's work.

 

---

 

Not-knowing is true knowledge.
Presuming to know is a disease.
First realize that you are sick;
then you can move toward health.

The Master is her own physician.
She has healed herself of all knowing.
Thus she is truly whole.

[kpodhayski]

6 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Cancer growths are the result of obstructed life energy. If you manage to reestablish its flow, whether by Taiji or something else, the tumor will vanish.

 

Yes, you are right, here you go, Cheng Jin Cai cured his cancer, by dying!

 

http://slantedflying.com/cheng-jin-cai-passes-away/

 

He was a true Daoist!

 

I am leaving this topic now, for others not yet sucked into the delusion to read. But people defending Tai Chi by saying it does miraculous things is too much delusion to keep shadow boxing with.  

 

I began by saying that Tai Chi was a bastardization of the Dao. Why?

 

My teachings are easy to understand
and easy to put into practice.
Yet your intellect will never grasp them,
and if you try to practice them, you'll fail.

My teachings are older than the world.
How can you grasp their meaning?

If you want to know me,
look inside your heart.

 

 

 

[Brian]

I am curious -- how is it that animals with no knowledge of cancer get cancer and die from it?

[kpodhayski]

7 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Ideally, we would be constantly living in accordance with the Dao, and we wouldn't need Taiji or any other Daoist art to attune. But things being the way they are, methods that help us reconnect often come in handy.

 

And being in harmony with the Dao, sometimes great things indeed can be accomplished.

 

A word about desires...

 

Desires aren't bad per se. They are natural, and we have them for good reasons. What matters is how we manage to deal with them.

 

When has Lao Tzu said; "You need to learn to deal with your desires"? Never!

 

Your's are the words of a person who does not want to give up their desires.

 

 

7 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

I have watched plenty of people who pretended to be desireless. Most of them even believed it themselves. But it was just a mind f***, after all, as they were in fact shivering with expectation - ready to seize any opportunity that would offer itself.

 

Much better to be honest with yourself and pursue your dreams. Or, in some cases, reach a place where you can truly let them go and be at peace with it. But repression is obstructing the flow of the Dao in yourself.

 

Practicing Taiji is a way to reestablish the flow. Not everybody is interested in developing "superpowers." But if you are, there may be reasons for that too.

 

kpodhayski, I feel that if you were really as content as you claim to be, you wouldn't care so much about what others believe and do...

 

I was content as a crane on a river bank till all you starting making all this racket!

[kpodhayski]

1 minute ago, Brian said:

I am curious -- how is it that animals with no knowledge of cancer get cancer and die from it?

 

Do they know they have cancer? Do they live their lives trying to avoid and figure out how to cure cancer?

 

If you never knew what cancer was, and you died of it, what would you tell people you have died of?

 

If you do not know what death is, or what birth is?

 

I am afraid you are all missing the meanings of the teachings. Daoism does not cure cancer, it cures your idea of cancer.

 

Empty your mind of all thoughts. <---of ALL thoughts, even Tai Chi, even death and cancer!
Let your heart be at peace.
Watch the turmoil of beings,
but contemplate their return.

Each separate being in the universe
returns to the common source.
Returning to the source is serenity.

If you don't realize the source,
you stumble in confusion and sorrow.
When you realize where you come from,
you naturally become tolerant,
disinterested, amused,
kindhearted as a grandmother,
dignified as a king.
Immersed in the wonder of the Tao,
you can deal with whatever life brings you,
and when death comes, you are ready.

[Brian]

1 minute ago, kpodhayski said:

 

Do they know they have cancer? Do they live their lives trying to avoid and figure out how to cure cancer?

 

If you never knew what cancer was, and you died of it, what would you tell people you have died of?

 

If you do not know what death is, or what birth is?

 

I am afraid you are all missing the meanings of the teachings. Daoism does not cure cancer, it cures your idea of cancer.

 

Empty your mind of all thoughts. <---of ALL thoughts, even Tai Chi, even death and cancer!
Let your heart be at peace.
Watch the turmoil of beings,
but contemplate their return.

Each separate being in the universe
returns to the common source.
Returning to the source is serenity.

If you don't realize the source,
you stumble in confusion and sorrow.
When you realize where you come from,
you naturally become tolerant,
disinterested, amused,
kindhearted as a grandmother,
dignified as a king.
Immersed in the wonder of the Tao,
you can deal with whatever life brings you,
and when death comes, you are ready.

You didn't answer my question.

[Marblehead]

13 hours ago, kpodhayski said:

 

I am not overlooking desire. Desire, that is the problem. Tai Chi is full of desire. Get rid of desire and your will understand the Dao.

But I'm not going to get rid of "all" my desires.  Those are the spices of life.  We just shouldn't hold to them as if they were a "need".

 

 

[doc benway]

22 hours ago, kpodhayski said:

All these teachers wanting you to become healthier, more powerful, or magical; what sage of the Dao has ever taught that?

 

If you enjoy Tai chi, that is fine, but it is no different than playing the flute or washing the dishes in regard to the Dao.

 

Be content with what you have;
rejoice in the way things are.
When you realize there is nothing lacking,
the whole world belongs to you.

 

I see it differently.

 

Taijiquan is simply an application of Daoist principles to martial arts.

It is more an expression of Daoism through martial practices, an elevation of the martial endeavor rather than a degradation or denigration of Daoism. The Daoist aspects are incorporation of principles like balance, yielding, connection, non-separation, non-obstruction, naturalness, and so forth.

Health, power, and magic have all been thoroughly intertwined with Daoism for millenia, although I would agree that they are more a reflection of human desire and aversion than the intention of the sages. Of course they are expressed in taijiquan, just as they are reflected in most human activity. 

 

Your last 4 lines ring true but we still have the opportunity to engage with the world and bringing the influence of Daoist principles to that interaction is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. 

[Marblehead]

8 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

.....true love.

But I even question that.

 

[kpodhayski]

46 minutes ago, Brian said:

You didn't answer my question.

 

Your question was meaningless and revealed that you do not understand.

 

I am not saying that being like an animal cures cancer.

 

I am saying that they do not have cancer only because they do not know what it is.

 

And what is so wrong with having cancer?