Tai Chi is a Bastardization of Daoism

[rene]

Just now, Daeluin said:

 

Then why distinguish between being trapped by it and not?

 

Sorry, my post was unclear. You spoke of returning to dao, mine was referring only to dao.

 

Isms (including daoism) keep followers trapped with the idea there is something to find, something to chase, something they are lacking, something they need to do to make things 'better'. Each of those are a topic unto themselves - and if anyone wants to start one that might be fun!

 

I do not disparage others who have found what works for them; what could be wrong with that? Even a canary has the right to prefer his cage. (-: I like that we each have our own nature, perspective and way.

[Marblehead]

4 minutes ago, WuDao said:

 

I do not disparage others who have found what works for them; what could be wrong with that? Even a canary has the right to prefer his cage. (-: I like that we each have our own nature, perspective and way.

And were I a fly I wouldn't want to become an aspect of the oneness of the web.

 

[Daeluin]

22 minutes ago, Daeluin said:

 

Some of us return to the web on purpose, as we believe it is worth of returning to dao as well.

 

Some of us return to the web, believing the web is worth returning to dao as well. Getting stuck within its flow, then helping that flow find deeper balance and connection to dao.

 

My apologies, perhaps we don't define "web" in the same way, and I was not very clear either.

 

4 minutes ago, WuDao said:

 

Sorry, my post was unclear. You spoke of returning to dao, mine was referring only to dao.

 

Isms (including daoism) keep followers trapped with the idea there is something to find, something to chase, something they are lacking, something they need to do to make things 'better'. Each of those are a topic unto themselves - and if anyone wants to start one that might be fun!

 

I do not disparage others who have found what works for them; what could be wrong with that? Even a canary has the right to prefer his cage. (-: I like that we each have our own nature, perspective and way.

 

I am just following my natural instincts, which believe in being a bridge between the dao and all else.

 

So many seem to advocate disconnecting at various levels, and for whatever reason buried within me, I am led to leave no part unloved.

[Marblehead]

True that Tai Chi has nothing to do with Daoism in and of itself.  But I will suggest that Tai Chi evolved out of Daoist Philosophy.

 

 

[Marblehead]

3 minutes ago, Daeluin said:

 

... I am led to leave no part unloved.

Your love greatly exceeds mine.

 

[rene]

 

1 minute ago, Daeluin said:

I am just following my natural instincts, which believe in being a bridge between the dao and all else.

 

So many seem to advocate disconnecting at various levels, and for whatever reason buried within me, I am led to leave no part unloved.

 

Only thing to disconnect from is the idea that a bridge is needed, whether provided by you or an -ism. That laser-focused idea is what perpetuates the idea of separate from dao.

 

In talking to others, do you say 'Im here to help you connect to dao' - or do you say 'You are already connected to dao; maybe I can make your life easier' <<--Do you see the subtle difference?

 

That difference is the fine hair making up the fly trap.

 

Which words ^ do you think would be most effective; manifest the most love?

[kpodhayski]

39 minutes ago, WuDao said:

I do not disparage others who have found what works for them; what could be wrong with that? Even a canary has the right to prefer his cage. (-:

 

Ha! Good!

[kpodhayski]

13 minutes ago, WuDao said:

Only thing to disconnect from is the idea that a bridge is needed, whether provided by you or an -ism. That laser-focused idea is what perpetuates the idea of separate from dao.

 

In talking to others, do you say 'Im here to help you connect to dao' - or do you say 'You are already connected to dao; maybe I can make your life easier' <<--Do you see the subtle difference?

 

That difference is the fine hair making up the fly trap.

 

Which words ^ do you think would be most effective; manifest the most love?

 

Ha! She is beating all your Tai Chi asses!

 

 

[flowing hands]

This whole thread is just a wind up and not worth the effort

[cold]

15 minutes ago, kpodhayski said:

 

Ha! She is beating all your Tai Chi asses!

 

 

 

I don't think that is her intention.

[Daeluin]

26 minutes ago, WuDao said:

 

 

Only thing to disconnect from is the idea that a bridge is needed, whether provided by you or an -ism. That laser-focused idea is what perpetuates the idea of separate from dao.

 

A bridge is indeed needed, yet the idea that a bridge is needed gets in the way of being a bridge.

 

I see too many dissolve the idea, yet fail to become a bridge.

 

26 minutes ago, WuDao said:

In talking to others, do you say 'Im here to help you connect to dao' - or do you say 'You are already connected to dao; maybe I can make your life easier' <<--Do you see the subtle difference?

 

Yes, I see. Yet further, nothing needs to be said at all.

 

26 minutes ago, WuDao said:

That difference is the fine hair making up the fly trap.

 

Which words ^ do you think would be most effective; manifest the most love?

 

The ones that appear in the right place, at the right time.

[kpodhayski]

7 minutes ago, cold said:

 

I don't think that is her intention.

 

I know, her Wu Wei kicks ass!

[Daeluin]

2 minutes ago, Daeluin said:

 

A bridge is indeed needed, yet the idea that a bridge is needed gets in the way of being a bridge.

 

I see too many dissolve the idea, yet fail to become a bridge.

 

And to be sure, we are all bridges.

 

What I refer to is that people are blocked from fully operating ziran within the physical realm, due to constraints placed upon how one needs to care for the flesh. It is too much of a burden for many to actually go out there and wander, trusting that they will be taken care of, trusting that they will be able to maintain their higher states.

 

We each are responsible for healing our own attachments within, healing ourselves. And yet part of our pattern remains based on what we have changed and shaped within this realm. The deeper work lays in trusting our form to naturally and spontaneously go out there and dissolve and unwind those traces we have left upon the physical realm, as well. This is truly achieving destiny, not simply escaping its grasp.

[Daeluin]

Why do I share these things now, with this laser like intent?

 

I don't know, but perhaps it is a matter of timing.

 

For after I proceed to heal myself, and then proceed to heal the world, it will be an operation that makes no proclamations.

[rene]

3 minutes ago, Daeluin said:

 

And to be sure, we are all bridges.

 

What I refer to is that people are blocked from fully operating ziran within the physical realm, due to constraints placed upon how one needs to care for the flesh. It is too much of a burden for many to actually go out there and wander, trusting that they will be taken care of, trusting that they will be able to maintain their higher states.

 

We each are responsible for healing our own attachments within, healing ourselves. And yet part of our pattern remains based on what we have changed and shaped within this realm. The deeper work lays in trusting our form to naturally and spontaneously go out there and dissolve and unwind those traces we have left upon the physical realm, as well. This is truly achieving destiny, not simply escaping its grasp.

 

Daeluin, hi

 

We have very different perspectives: yours is well intentioned, well spoken & explained, and very complex; mine is a simpler path and as natural as breathing.

 

I wish you the best on yours, always. (-:

[rene]

37 minutes ago, kpodhayski said:

 

Ha! She is beating all your Tai Chi asses!

 

 

 

[rene]

26 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

This whole thread is just a wind up and not worth the effort

 

Oh...I dunno. It got you to show up.

 

Kpop, meet flowing hands.

[Brian]

I was told not terribly long ago that it is no longer my job to lift people up with me, that those who will be ready will be ready when it is time.  I sometimes forget this.

[Daeluin]

3 minutes ago, Brian said:

I was told not terribly long ago that it is no longer my job to lift people up with me, that those who will be ready will be ready when it is time.  I sometimes forget this.

 

Haha... in being informed I have been the Bodhisattva, I was also informed that that is not my task this time around. But I'm guessing that Bodhisattva momentum is not easy to transcend. I seem to have come into an understanding that cultivates both simultaneously.

 

In any case, my period of "investigating principle" on these boards is quickly coming to a close, and perhaps time has come for some unlearning. I've discovered the keys I sense are easy to miss when things become more subtle down the road. If y'all are lonely, I suggest you look deeper. Blessings!

 

 

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say

[Taomeow]

6 minutes ago, Brian said:

I was told not terribly long ago that it is no longer my job to lift people up with me, that those who will be ready will be ready when it is time.  I sometimes forget this.

 

Forget heavy lifting.  With a certain kind, the thing to remember is not to feed them.  They only grow bigger and heavier when fed.

 

[dwai]

1 minute ago, Taomeow said:

 

Forget heavy lifting.  With a certain kind, the thing to remember is not to feed them.  They only grow bigger and heavier when fed.

 

[Michael Sternbach]

6 hours ago, kpodhayski said:

 

When has Lao Tzu said; "You need to learn to deal with your desires"? Never!

 

Actually, we don't have to look far for this:

 

The way that can be spoken of 
Is not the constant way; 
The name that can be named 
Is not the constant name.

The nameless was the beginning of heaven and earth; 
The named was the mother of the myriad creatures.

Hence always rid yourself of desires in order to observe its secrets; 
But always allow yourself to have desires in order to observe its manifestations.

These two are the same 
But diverge in name as they issue forth. 
Being the same they are called mysteries, 
Mystery upon mystery - 
The gateway of the manifold secrets. 

 

6 hours ago, kpodhayski said:

Your's are the words of a person who does not want to give up their desires.

 

Why should I? Giving them up altogether turns one into an living dead. I do like to observe the mysteries of the manifestations.

 

6 hours ago, kpodhayski said:

I was content as a crane on a river bank till all you starting making all this racket!

 

Maybe it's because you have pulled in the dirt a practice that many here do and love?

[kpodhayski]

1 minute ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Actually, we don't have to look far for this:

 

The way that can be spoken of 
Is not the constant way; 
The name that can be named 
Is not the constant name.

The nameless was the beginning of heaven and earth; 
The named was the mother of the myriad creatures.

Hence always rid yourself of desires in order to observe its secrets; 
But always allow yourself to have desires in order to observe its manifestations.

These two are the same 
But diverge in name as they issue forth. 
Being the same they are called mysteries, 
Mystery upon mystery - 
The gateway of the manifold secrets. 

 

Ha! Is that the Donald J Trump Translation? Horrible! Here are some others:

 

Legge:

Always without desire we must be found,
If its deep mystery we would sound;
But if desire always within us be,
Its outer fringe is all that we shall see.

 

Suzuki

Therefore it is said:
" He who desireless is found
The spiritual of the world will sound.
But he who by desire is bound
Sees the mere shell of things around."

 

Goddard:

Therefore not to desire the things of sense is to know the freedom of spirituality; and to desire is to learn the limitation of matter.

 

 

1 minute ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

 

Why should I? Giving them up altogether turns one into an living dead. I do like to observe the mysteries of the manifestations.

 

 

Maybe it's because you have pulled in the dirt a practice that many here do and love?

 

Love is a four letter word!

 

Yes, to be the living dead, that is the goal!

 

Go ahead, do what you like, but it is not in line with the Dao and it is not Daoism.

[rene]

4 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Hence always rid yourself of desires in order to observe its secrets; 
But always allow yourself to have desires in order to observe its manifestations.

 

Hi Michael,

Whose translation is this? I like its treatment of the second line; one that is usually much different, to attempt to support a different idea altogether. Thanks!

[Starjumper]

Well Kopd won't find the person or the answer he want's because of a mistaken thread title, and when I pointed this out he ignored it.  When I pointed out Chang Tzu having a sword he ignored it.  

 

The funny thing is that he could really get a much deeper appreciation of Taoism if he learned tai chi, but that won't happen.  In response to one of my posts he said he was in an illegitimate school of Taoism, but I think he's not in school, or if he is then it is illegitimate.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Starjumper