thought-stopping skill

[Goldleaf]

Hi there,

 

I have searched and found some info on this already, and feel free to let me know if another more direct thread already exists.

 

But I have noticed when people talk about combatting the monkey mind, there seems to be an agreement that it will take quite a long time of dedicated work and meditation.

 

Withoiut meaning to be rude bgut i find this unacceptable!!

 

Why can we not use direct methods daily to limit thoughts, and within say, a few months, be able to stop thoughts at will??

 

If I can stop my mind chattering and just enjoy, then I know I will also get great benefit from my chi kung practice, from daily life, from eating, meeting girls, music... everything!!

 

So I feel I have enough motivation to stop.  I just wanted to start a discussion on those things others have used that have been the most effective, besides meditation / mindfullness.  Are there more direct methods for destroying this age-old habit which is ultimately destroying me?

 

Please feel free to contribute, in the hope that your contribution will benefit future readers!!

 

Thanks for reading

GL

[Fa Xin]

Hello!

 

in my experience the mind will not stop nor will it ever stop. 

 

Ive tried many years to take away the keys because when she drives she swerves all Over the road and sometimes runs the red lights. 

 

But she just wants to go out. 

 

Weve come to an arrangement, I bring her with me but she sits in the passenger seat. Cuz I told her, it's too scary when it's her behind the wheel. 

 

She seems to be ok with this, sometimes she gets upset that she's not driving and sometimes she'll try to steal the keys. 

 

I found out that the car is actually registered in my name not hers!

 

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

I was told by http://springforestqigong.com that my mind is "very powerful from many years of meditation" and then before that his assistant http://guidingqi.com said I had the "best mental concentration" of any student he had met.

 

But he also said for that comment to not "go to my head" and the original qigong master said to "focus on the lower tan tien."

 

So there is focus - which is left brain concentration - and then visualization.

 

When the qi gets very strong - the qigong masters describe how time stops - and an image freezes - this image is actually holographic reality - so the internal and external merge via the Yuan Qi.

 

So when that happens - the light has been "turned around" and with the image frozen and time stopped - then the qi as God or Formless Awareness or Emptiness will do whatever healing needs to occur.

 

So in the sense of formless universal mind - no it never stops. In the sense of the Spiritual ego - as individual light - yes it can be "frozen" and then merge into the Yuan Qi.

 

 

[wstein]

'Stopping' thoughts is an ego activity that unfortunately causes more thoughts. Thus one can spend decades and not 'solve' the problem.

One does not stop monkey mind so much as observe it cease on its own. I know this counter to all common sense.

The method I describe took me several years to reach inner silence as a default state. Short periods of silence happened much sooner.

I use the well known method generally referred to as 'observing your thoughts' (goes by many names). There is a slight bit more to it, you also need identify (label) thoughts as 'thought' when you notice them. That's it, don't try to do anything about them, don't analyze them, don't worry about failing to label them all, and above all don't try to stop them. I know your mind is screaming, you can't stop thoughts if you don't 'do' anything. My only response is that this method works. Generally this is most easily done during meditation, but any time will work. Probably need to spend minimum 20 minutes a day to meet your aggressive schedule.

You indicate you are in a hurry, I expect you will see short periods without the mind (monkey) chatter within a few months. Not sure a permanent fix can be had by most people in under a few years.

Edited June 24, 2017 by wstein
added mediataion comments

[voidisyinyang]

To describe it physiologically - essentially there is a strong magnetic bliss in the center of the brain - and this magnetic bliss then overwhelms any thoughts - so then also you can just "focus" the pineal gland to stop the thoughts.

 

This can be called strong internal listening - but another explanation is through Yi or intention as via neuroscience - the back of the brain controls intention as awareness. So - if your turn your "perspective around" - your thoughts to your "awareness" - then you can just idle into pure awareness.

 

I have a free pdf that gives the images of this - the neuroscience and the brain areas.

 

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/04/10/idiot-s-guide-to-taoist-alchemy/

[Marblehead]

Always a constant problem, isn't it - getting the monkey mind to shut up.

 

Those thoughts come from our subconscious mind.  They arise and seek attention.  However, giving them attention only makes them stronger.

 

Empty-minded meditation works well for me but you don't want to talk about that.

 

My only other practice (not really a practice) is to get fully immersed in my now moment.  That is, get involved in a mental activity that requires total awareness of what I am doing in the "now" moment.

 

Best Wishes at finding a process that works well for you.

 

[Spotless]

The monkey mind is more than just a habit - it is osmotic - related to faint outside influences and it is also related to your DNA - you have triggers you think are culturally born but they are much deeper and rooted in the great past.

 

It is supported by those asleep (and most of those awake), taught in school and university - it is the fabric of conversation, your dreams.

 

People enjoy the monkey mind, are employed by it, work for it, eat for it, purchase things for it, get married for it and build their lives on it. Its what you take to the party and what you present to the girls.

 

If you did manage to get rid of it suddenly - you would want it back. Its quick, convenient and gives you a cover story. 

People demand a cover story - inside and out.

 

The monkey mind prefers things cut and dried - dead things - it likes black and white solutions - just like Monsanto - packaged goods with clean labels and shelves. It also likes bats and explosives for anything that gets in the way of its facade. 

 

It loves to re-write history, cannot stand the present and lives in futures at least a thousand times in a day. 

 

It is "your" story 

 

It can stop - but the poster that posted the original post here is not interested in stopping it - just the idea of modifying it and putting a throttle on it.  Like a horse - put a bridle on it and rein it in - put a lid on it. I'm not putting words in your mouth or belittling you - it was your monkey mind that wrote the post - its what will die if you were successful in ridding yourself of it.

 

You mount the horse and rein it in and soon the reins transform into monkey mind and they are transmitted to the driver who suddenly finds himself in the back seat once again or possibly in the trunk. Its slippery - makes Teflon look like glue. The monkey mind was designed to have only an illusion of a seat - but the seat does not actually exist - you get saddled up and comfortable, lean over to take a sip of drink and comeback up in the trunk or on the hood or in your nose with a cold and six months have passed.

-

In otherwords - this is a plague of epic proportions set upon every atom in your relative space - yet it appears to be your favorite beverage. In taking it to task you will defend the beverage and dislike the flies and bees that are attracted to it, or the mold that grows on it and in it.

-

It is through the monkey mind that you hear the meditation instructions, and stop meditation just when you are getting to it.

it is through the monkey mind that you modify a teaching and practice to suit "your" sleep and beverage needs.

 

And it is through the monkey mind that time is torture and the illusion of shortage creates a shortage. 

-----

 

listen to the mind loops - that is monkey mind. Each repetitive thought - notice how they are wrapped in your life force.

every repetition binding the last and futures - supporting the frequencies you abide in - the karma buzz you believe you are.

 

meditation - embodiment - mindfulness - fasting - breath - nature

 

Don't scoff at these - they only appear to be slow - particularly if you are looking to purchase a saddle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Starjumper]

5 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

Hello!

 

in my experience the mind will not stop nor will it ever stop. 

 

Ive tried many years to take away the keys because when she drives she swerves all Over the road and sometimes runs the red lights. 

 

But she just wants to go out. 

 

Weve come to an arrangement, I bring her with me but she sits in the passenger seat. Cuz I told her, it's too scary when it's her behind the wheel. 

 

She seems to be ok with this, sometimes she gets upset that she's not driving and sometimes she'll try to steal the keys. 

 

I found out that the car is actually registered in my name not hers!

 

Nice!

[dwai]

The direct method is to ask the question - "who is having this thought?"

the answer comes back "I am"

next question - "who am I?"

 

Every thought that rises should be treated with the "who am I?" answer...

try this for a few weeks and see what happens...

 

afterwards ask the question "who am I?" and trace back to the source of that question itself...

[thelerner]

This youtube by Barry Long is a good- why, which in some ways you already have:

 

This one, a guided meditation gives you a good practical tool.  Use it for a few days in a row and you should have a noticeable quieter mind-

I like making such talks into mp3's.  Also for the Guided meditation after listening to the whole thing a time or two, I'll set it to skip the first 10 minutes 26 seconds. 

[Papayapple]

"Thinking is a psychological disease"

[voidisyinyang]

shudn'd a mod merge these threads - it is a repeated same question.

[rene]

I like my monkey (-: 

 

I was lucky to be born with a small quiet one; she'd rather just sit and watch with me to see what life brings next!  Most of the time I dont even notice she's around - except when there's something that needs remembering, like, Did I already pick up the extra dog food? Helpful she is, in those times, as she whispers the information I need.

 

[voidisyinyang]

Ramana Maharshi says to repeat I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I not as a mantra but as logical inference and then the I-thought will get concentrated. So if any other thought arises just ask yourself from where does that thought arrive and since all thoughts are based on the I-thought - then you clear the thought out by repeating I-I-I-I-I.

 

At that point when the thought is concentrated then visualize light on the right side of the heart and he says the I-I emanates from the right side of the heart. So it is a concentrated meditation - not just "observing" the thoughts which is passive meditation as vipassana. But as the process is the goal just as with vipassana - then the I-I always emanates as the prana or formless awareness of the qi.

 

With concentration you "use the mind to kill the mind" as Ramana Maharshi states - and that includes the mind as spirit as well - and this is the secret of the Taoist "turning the light around" - so for Ramana then he went into pure formless awareness after his heart stopped but the prana kept him alive. Then a shock emanated from the right side of the heart and brought back his spirit to the left side as his sense of self, or spiritual ego. The Taoists say the same thing - the Yuan Shen is from the left side of the heart and the Yuan Qi is from the right side of the heart. So after his heart had stopped for 15 minutes - after that with each breath he took, his mind as qi then went beyond his physical heart energy to the formless awareness, as his eternal liberation.

 

The early primates - the tree shrew - our current inner ear was actually the jaw bone of the tree shrew and so the "inner smile" is actually the pineal gland smiling - the cerebellum brain - and the inner ear is being activated. So some state to just listen to the highest pitch sound you can hear. Science has now proven - the highest pitch ringing sound we hear externally then resonates the whole brain internally as ultrasound. The ultrasound in turn resonates the microtubules of the neurons as quantum consciousness that is nonlocal awareness. For example primates use the smile as a submissive gesture - if someone freaks out in anger at you then you just don't say a word, empty out the mind, into the submissive primate smile that is actually the inner smile of the pineal gland cerebellum. Or you could then also send qi into the person to transform their anger.

 

So for example if you fast - then as Ramana Maharshi says when the body is weak the mind will get strong - and you can hear the ringing more easily - as the kidney energy is activated. That is the vagus nerve connection from the lower body - as hunger is the left front vagus nerve up to the brain. And so there is a phenomenon of white noise that causes people to hear things - when in fact what they hear from white noise is their own subconscious projections. So it is kind of fun to have fasting then increase the white noise of the environment and having a constant flood of subconscious projections.

 

This also happens from music - so it's called the "third ear" - a book by Theodore Reik called the Haunting Melody points out how music is the bridge to the subconscious. So you get a song in the head suddenly. Then if you can remember the lyrics you realize it reveals the hidden meaning of your subconscious at that moment.

 

So the original healing songs had gibberish words but it is the intention of the jing or N/om energy that matters based on the frequency of the light - and so when the light is turned around - this is the intention to go into the formless awareness through the heart. And so Ramana Maharshi stated that OHM or nada meditation becomes just a trance that dulls the mind on its own - and so that is why he said to practice logical inference as the truth of reality.

 

But in fact - this is the same - as the left brain inner ear listening activates the right side vagus nerve to the right side of the heart. The truth of OM as AUM is complementary opposites energy resonance - I give the details in my free pdf.

Edited June 24, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[voidisyinyang]

So then Poonjaji states that the first thought upon waking is a thought in the self-awareness. He states that the formless awareness is the space between thoughts. So the first thought upon waking is often still in REM brain state with theta brain waves - this is why you can smell yourself immediately upon waking up but then the next breath and thought you are suddenly beta brain wave dominant and the smell will go away.

 

So I watched this neuroscientist on youtube lecturing on the "mystery of qi" or qi without mystery - stating that it is the cerebellum that has faster evolution of neurons than the prefrontal cortex. I think what he meant to say - more precisely - is that the cerebellum has a larger prefrontal cortex, in ratio to its size, then the cerebrum brain. This was also the main analysis of Stan Gooch - in his book Total Man - he said that paranormal powers is from the cerebellum-pineal gland connection.

 

But the brain on its own is very weak - and so for example when athletes go into the "flow" - this neuroscientist says that means they are "learning to learn" - or meta-learning, and that this is a self-organizing of thinking on its own. As Stuart Hameroff states - precognition is real in this state of the "flow" - that Michael Jordan for example really does perceive faster than his fellow players. The canadian neuroscientist gives evidence to prove this is true - there really is faster perception.

 

So in the REM state - this is also called the Mozart Effect - so when the heart resonates with the breathing and brain then the spirit takes over as a waking dream state for thinking or perceiving.

 

So then - it's proven the "flow" is caused by a big spike in adrenaline to the amgydala and hippocampus so your brain from increased dopamine is able to process faster memories - and so your internal perception is faster so your external perception of time is slower. External time slows down to create the flow as your internal perception is faster.

 

 

[Spotless]

Barry Long is excellent - he passed on but left a trail of videos.

[voidisyinyang]

You can see this "inner smile" in the glow of eyes of animals. For example birds smile through the spirit that comes out of their eyes.

 

I have a quote on my blog from a Tibetan medical doctor saying the universal energy is collected through the ear and then shines for out of the eyes.

 

So think of grooming - why does picking black holes - "popping" them cause peoples mouth to water? I always wondered this and it seems strange. But I noticed this with my best friend - a pet parakeet I raised from the nest before he had wings. So when he cleanly picked off a zit when I was 14 years old - he had that gleam in his eye of the inner smile.

 

So in grooming - we have intense visualization and it is this intense visualization to pop zits or pop black heads even more as they are buried into the skin - or digging out buried ticks for example - the mouth waters because the vagus nerve is activated.

 

And so increased right brain vagus nerve happens from visualization. The funny thing is the left brain vagus nerve does not connect to the right brain but the right brain vagus nerve can then "empty" out the left brain thoughts.

 

So in full lotus meditation - you actually get loud cracking noises as the jing clears out skull blockages on the right side of the brain but as the energy builds up then the left side brain is cleared out - and this empties out the left brain monkey mind.

 

What happens when a person has a thought over and over in their mind - this is actually a form of possession by the lower frequency lower emotional energy. So then it take the lower body emotional energy to be sublimated into the right brain which then has the power to empty out the left brain.

 

The left vagus nerve then goes down to the heart and increases the oxytocin love bonding energy - but also causes the mouth to water - as the cerebrospinal fluid overflows out of the brain via the sinus cavity.

 

So it's proven by science that the brain works via time-frequency uncertainty - so that the slower the left brain goes into slower time externally - then the higher the frequency of the right brain goes for better visualization. This is the secret of the Mozart Effect - with slow music at one beat per second - in fact the visualization increases for better memory. When the heart and breathing and brain synchronizes - then the most common trance drumming is 7 beats per second - and the heart qi energy resonates with the Earth's Schumann resonance. So then you have qi energy that is 1000 times stronger than the typical heart mind qi energy as the Schumann resonance electromagnetic energy is also 1000 times stronger.

 

So primates we have left brain dominance because this is to tell the body to move to search for food, etc. So like with birds - our auditory cortex is very close to our motor cortex. This is what Gurdjieff called the Moving Center - so it needs to be leveraged to increase the brain energy. This is done through synchronization, etc.

 

So consider for example work music. I had a coworker who got very angry about my coworkers blasting our work music which is - I forget the name now it's been so long - so I can remember the melody and rhythm first. So now I will do the body dance movement in my mind and visualize it. The name still slips me. I need to actually do the physical movements.

 

nope so I'll go into full lotus to remember it. So this is what Gurdjieff calls the Kundabuffer - we are controlled by the lower frequency left brain timing of beta brain that is actually our moving center and instinct center and closes off the neurohormones that should be going up to the right side of the brain.

 

Right so my brain at first said - mamba and then samba and finally cumbia.

 

But in the mean time I googled latin trance dance and I got this book called Blackness in Latin America and I realized that subconsciously - those names of the dances are actually referring to the Kundalini Snake N/om energy!!

 

So o.k. now as I was saying my coworker - who was very much like me in ethnic origin - white middle class Christian - private school - she got LIVID at our work music. haha.

 

She said it was children music. But in fact the opposite is true. By simply turning off the left brain and then synchronizing the work movements while listening to the cumbia - you go into a right brain trance so that your internal brain processing increases and you work faster while not getting tired.

 

But her concern was - as she was young and very well-endowed with jing energy - that as I jokingly asked her to dance - that if she did dance it would cause the other males in the warehouse to get too excited. Indeed. So that is the real reason she was livid because actually it is because males don't know how to control their lower bodies - and so their left brain dominance causes a Chimp mentality of ejaculation addiction with rape and war mongering, etc.

 

 

 

[allinone]

how to stop thoughts?

 

go there where lots of people watch you, like public speaking, or in front of good looking attractive female. So the the attractiveness is key.

Summary. you are too hot.

 

 

[Goldleaf]

This is so great to have these replies.  

 

Thanks everyone for sharing your two cents.  I have also been reading a book by Tony Robbins that describes using leverage on yourself to change bad habits into good, and seeing what you wlil get if you change and will you get if you don't, to provide the motivation to change yourself.  So this is what I want to use.

 

Basically, if I can stop thoughts / go beyond the monkey mind during my chi kung, I will:

 

have more productive day

have more joy in simple things, like cup of tea!

need less sleep = double productive day!

have meaningful relationshiop

have more stamina and therefore take up a new sport  / be able to do more work and get more pay

be able to write my book!

 

In summary, I realised that I am living at probably 2% of my potential right now.  ANd all it takes is a little effort, twice daily, to make a breakthrough, and finally get benefits from my chi kung, and finally start living at even just 50%, to finally start living period!!

 

 

 

7 hours ago, allinone said:

how to stop thoughts?

 

go there where lots of people watch you, like public speaking, or in front of good looking attractive female. So the the attractiveness is key.

Summary. you are too hot.

 

 

 

Hi Allinone, I do not understand this?  I"m guessing you mean that by going out of myself, I might be able to short-circuit my monkey mind?  Unfortunately my experience with doing such things is that my monkey mind just gets more active   I'm not sure how attractiveness, relates to thought-stoppoing?

 

Quote

So in the sense of formless universal mind - no it never stops. In the sense of the Spiritual ego - as individual light - yes it can be "frozen" and then merge into the Yuan Qi.

 

 

This makes perfect sense to me (ego) and also no sense at all (merge with yuan qi)!  Would you mind elaborating kindly? 

 

CHeers

GL

[voidisyinyang]

You can do this exercise - for literally 5 minutes a day - with your knees bent so the thighs are more close to parallel to the ground - with your legs shaking. This will empty out the mind and sublimate any "thought stopping" attraction experiences.

 

 

So the yuan qi - to consciously go into the Emptiness as Yuan qi is a high level - called "nirvikalpa samadhi" in yoga - it is only after your yin qi energy is stored up.

 

I have a pdf on that training that is free - it also reveals the secret of the above exercise.

 

there are secrets to yin and yang and turning your body into a battery.

 

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/04/10/idiot-s-guide-to-taoist-alchemy/

[Spotless]

The lower dantien will burn up tensions on your mind - repetitive thoughts - thoughts that do not seem to originate from you - things making you anxious - etc.

 

When you are in Qi Gong simply imagine any of them dropping like stones into the lower dan tien - they will burn up there.

 

Later when you feel the LDT all the time just have the loops go there..

 

This is a natural burner - it existed before your practice and is there for you and always has been.

 

Breath into the LDT

 

Be in the LDT

 

This practice will become effortless, fast and effective. 

 

[voidisyinyang]

Quote

Sitting in meditation trying to become

immortal will not cultivate the

dan tian

."

Written Transmissions of Xing Yi Quan

[allinone]

9 hours ago, Goldleaf said:

 

Hi Allinone, I do not understand this?  I"m guessing you mean that by going out of myself, I might be able to short-circuit my monkey mind?  Unfortunately my experience with doing such things is that my monkey mind just gets more active   I'm not sure how attractiveness, relates to thought-stoppoing?

 

loud sudden bang will stop your thinking. What is triggered in torso is this cold electrical like shock.

----

its thinking consciousness, use then different sense-consciousness to get your focus to feeling what is wet, like taste. I guess the self thought "i am" thought with awareness is the wet thought, also there is substance 7th consciousness and that is substance for 8th. Basically you need to get the substance and with 8th you can see where the substance is and then can "do the function or thing"

[allinone]

the fault peeps do is they don't deplete false heat before try to get a feel of substance. False heat doesn't disappear if the blind eye isn't also woken up. Basically you have two eyes, but you use only one, the other is covered, that eye what is covered directly is connected to "cold water" what will dissolve heat like if you try to separate cats who fight

[allinone]

On ‎24‎.‎06‎.‎2017 at 4:56 PM, dwai said:

The direct method is to ask the question - "who is having this thought?"

the answer comes back "I am"

next question - "who am I?"

 

Every thought that rises should be treated with the "who am I?" answer...

try this for a few weeks and see what happens...

 

afterwards ask the question "who am I?" and trace back to the source of that question itself...

 

There is needed to put emphasys to get rid of fetters.

 

"who i am" is to awoke the scary, eerie sensation in body. It will counter magical, wishful thinking. Your hair will erect sensation.