Long men pai nei gong and mo pai

[Ilovecoffee]

10 hours ago, Chang said:

 

Such arrogance not to mention insolence is indeed embarrassing. If not for you then for those who read your comments.

 

 

Like attracts like and I am sure that you have a small but steady stream of neophytes.

 

 

We are rational, logical, and free thinking.  We base our beliefs on the best objective evidence available to us, and on our own first hand observations.   We do not accept the personal testimony of others.  It never has been, nor will be arrogant, or insolent to exercise common sense.

 

 

 

 

[Ilovecoffee]

11 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

 

It seems like you want blind trust more than anything.

 

Nothing you have mentioned about your art is unique or what I have seen mentioned would change the world.

 

What I do see is people really trying to be open and ask real questions amd the reply is... watch the video and join us.

 

That is not enough for most people.. but then again you are looking for those for whom it is enough.

 

 

To be honest so far this reply has shocked me the most. 

 

We do not place blind faith or blind trust in anything. 

 

We require hard objective evidence, with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, and our own first hand observations,  no faith or trust is placed in anything or anyone.

 

If we could get "skeptics"  to stop arguing long enough to come see for themselves, then YES it would change the world.

 

Believe me if it were within my power to force you to see for yourself, I would do so.

 

We do the best we can, if people refuse the evidence and refuse to look for themselves, we can do nothing more for them.

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Ilovecoffee]

6 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

Once you eat you are no longer hungry. You need to find starving people that are weak and hungry for power to attract them to your system that you are promoting. No teachers, no schools does not leave much on the plate for those hungry, it will not satisfy them. If you are satisfied why do you keep eating. Now if you wish to share some food with others make sure you have enough for yourself first. We are all just wondering what you had to eat that you are so excited about.

 

As example if I told members about how great my system is and it is the best thing that ever existed believe me they would set me straight. The major mistake is telling someone what they practice is crap and mine is the best. Nei Dan is very personal We can not force a flower to bloom what works for one may not for other.

 

Yes I will concede the vast majority of people who are interested in MoPai want to become Goku. 

 

We do our absolute best to screen out such people. 

 

There is a specific purpose, an end goal for the practice, becoming Goku isn't it, and no one should pursue this practice if their goals don't align with it.

 

I agree that this is all very personal,  we are looking for rational, reasonable, free thinking individuals.   People who require hard objective evidence with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, people who will investigate for themselves and base their beliefs off their own observations.

 

That is what we are about.

[Nungali]

Come on guys  ... just one more teensie  little   tiny   bit of pie 

 

Spoiler

 

[Chang]

3 hours ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

 

To be honest so far this reply has shocked me the most. 

 

We do not place blind faith or blind trust in anything. 

 

We require hard objective evidence, with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, and our own first hand observations,  no faith or trust is placed in anything or anyone.

 

If we could get "skeptics"  to stop arguing long enough to come see for themselves, then YES it would change the world.

 

Believe me if it were within my power to force you to see for yourself, I would do so.

 

We do the best we can, if people refuse the evidence and refuse to look for themselves, we can do nothing more for them.

 

 

 

 

We have to mindful here that Western Mo Pai is a non-existent concept. What you practice is More Pie.

John Chang does not teach western students and has in the past only taught a couple the very rudiments of his art. You claim to be the students of his western students but it is simply stuff and nonsense which you and other More Pie Jihadi’s constantly attempt to legitimise on this forum under the watchful gaze of your Mad Mullah.

The fact is that you have been radicalised and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to reason with a fanatic.

In the past when someone of your ilk appears on the forum there is always another of your kind lurking quietly in the shadows to pick up your sword when you are inevitably banned. It will be interesting to see if the same happens this time.

 

 

[Sudhamma]

My motive to join Dao Bums was to learn a bit more of Master John Chang's Mo P'ai and specifically about Yin energy. Since that first posting I had no useable information in answer to my query. From the many responses in other 'conversations' on other issues, I gathered that my first posting would not be answered. Nonetheless, from my search, i understood that Mo P'ai had its origin in Longfu-shan in Fujian, China. Longfu-shan, the Dragon and Tiger mountain, was home to Maoshan, a form of Daoism that practices doaist magic and exocism. I will say that most if not all Daoist temples have their forms of religious and martial traditions. Could Mo P'ai be an offshoot of Maoshan, a major Daoist sect along side Quanzhen, Longm'en and Xiao Yao?

[Brian]

7 hours ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

Yes I will concede the vast majority of people who are interested in MoPai want to become Goku. 

 

We do our absolute best to screen out such people. 

 

There is a specific purpose, an end goal for the practice, becoming Goku isn't it, and no one should pursue this practice if their goals don't align with it.

 

I agree that this is all very personal,  we are looking for rational, reasonable, free thinking individuals.   People who require hard objective evidence with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, people who will investigate for themselves and base their beliefs off their own observations.

 

That is what we are about.

Just for clarity...

 

Other systems and practices want people to investigate for themselves and draw conclusions from their own observations.  The distinction, then, is that your group believes -- and seeks people who also believe -- that the video of John Chang on YouTube is hard objective evidence?

[Ilovecoffee]

5 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

"But what's real? You can't find the truth, you just pick the lie you like the best." - Brian Hugh Warner, AKA Marilyn Manson

 

Dismissing other people's experiences with our practices (and outright calling everything else fake) while banging your head against the wall for none of us taking your word for seems like the perfect logic characteristic of every single one of you guys who comes here to our forum: self-serving logic. 

 

Real or not, if Mo Pai makes people into high and mighty, holier-than-thou zealots, intolerant of others while crying oppression and judgment, arguing with everyone and calling everything else fake, then I want none of that pie, which in this case, might better be characterized by Kool-Aid. 

 

 

Earl,

 

We provide the best objective evidence that we are aware of, and invite people to come see for themselves.  Your community is not tolerant of our ideology, or our epistemology, we are a counter culture and clash with your culture, which revolves around emotional thinking, faith, and acceptance of personal testimony.

 

We do the best we can, and we are not the monsters you make us out to be, we just think differently, and see the world differently than you do.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

[Ilovecoffee]

On 6/29/2017 at 3:16 AM, Chang said:

 

We have to mindful here that Western Mo Pai is a non-existent concept. What you practice is More Pie.

 

 

John Chang does not teach western students and has in the past only taught a couple the very rudiments of his art. You claim to be the students of his western students but it is simply stuff and nonsense which you and other More Pie Jihadi’s constantly attempt to legitimise on this forum under the watchful gaze of your Mad Mullah.

 

The fact is that you have been radicalised and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to reason with a fanatic.

 

In the past when someone of your ilk appears on the forum there is always another of your kind lurking quietly in the shadows to pick up your sword when you are inevitably banned. It will be interesting to see if the same happens this time.

 

 

 

 

 

Well however you want to spin it Chang, but the truth is we preserve Jim McMillan's teachings as well as what Kosta passed to his students,  without change or alteration.   Jim went further than most Indonesians, and was personally tested by Chang at each level to verify he could progress.

 

I think you will find we are some of the most reasonable people you will ever meet

 

I am sure it will, no doubt.

 

Best wishes.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Ilovecoffee]

1 hour ago, Brian said:

Just for clarity...

 

Other systems and practices want people to investigate for themselves and draw conclusions from their own observations.  The distinction, then, is that your group believes -- and seeks people who also believe -- that the video of John Chang on YouTube is hard objective evidence?

 

 

Makers of homeopathic medicine and magnetic bracelets invite others to try their products, and lot's of people believe they help them.   What we are talking about is not placebo.

 

This is how it was explained to me:

 

Picture in your mind a world where no one believes fire exists, let alone that you can make a fire with friction, a bow tool, and lots of hard work.   You show others a video of scientists and medical doctors observing the creation of fire with a bow tool in a controlled environment, and everyone screams fraud and hoax,  so you provide them with their own bow tool to see for themselves.  They are all already convinced it is a hoax, so why bother to pick up the tool and invest any effort into doing the impossible?   Maybe though some are willing to do the work, and those people once they see the fire for themselves will no longer be able to deny reality. 

 

That analogy couldn't be better because it is exactly the case here. 

 

The video of John Chang,  he was stripped to a shirt and underwear, by scientists and medical doctors, checked for devices with a metal detector, and taken to a random location they chose to rule out external devices, and still able to display his abilities.  This is objective evidence, and we aren't going to argue further about it.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ilovecoffee]

5 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

an extreme level of dismissal of my practice and experience, not to mention other people's systems and lineage as well.

 

 

We don't see it that way,  were any of you to provide at least the same level of evidence available for MoPai, we would drop everything and come running in a heartbeat.  Truth.   

 

We just are not willing to invest in something if there is no good objective evidence with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud. 

 

While this rustles your Jimmies, it's just what seems reasonable and rational to us.

 

We mean no disrespect to you or others.

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Brian]

35 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

 

Makers of homeopathic medicine and magnetic bracelets invite others to try their products, and lot's of people believe they help them.   What we are talking about is not placebo.

 

This is how it was explained to me:

 

Picture in your mind a world where no one believes fire exists, let alone that you can make a fire with friction, a bow tool, and lots of hard work.   You show others a video of scientists and medical doctors observing the creation of fire with a bow tool in a controlled environment, and everyone screams fraud and hoax,  so you provide them with their own bow tool to see for themselves.  They are all already convinced it is a hoax, so why bother to pick up the tool and invest any effort into doing the impossible?   Maybe though some are willing to do the work, and those people once they see the fire for themselves will no longer be able to deny reality. 

 

That analogy couldn't be better because it is exactly the case here. 

 

The video of John Chang,  he was stripped to a shirt and underwear, by scientists and medical doctors, checked for devices with a metal detector, and taken to a random location they chose to rule out external devices, and still able to display his abilities.  This is objective evidence, and we aren't going to argue further about it.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to see the data collected, please, or the error analysis.

[Ilovecoffee]

6 minutes ago, Brian said:

I'd like to see the data collected, please, or the error analysis.

 

I don't care what you would like to see Brian, we aren't arguing further about it.

 

Best wishes.

[Brian]

5 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

I don't care what you would like to see Brian, we aren't arguing further about it.

 

Best wishes.

We haven't been arguing.  I've been asking questions and you've been not answering them.  That's certainly not an argument and I would suggest it isn't even a discussion.

[Ilovecoffee]

Just now, Brian said:

We haven't been arguing.  I've been asking questions and you've been not answering them.  That's certainly not an argument and I would suggest it isn't even a discussion.

 

Well whatever you want to call it, it is over.

 

I wish you the best, but I am not going to play these games with you.

[Jonesboy]

10 hours ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

 

To be honest so far this reply has shocked me the most. 

 

We do not place blind faith or blind trust in anything. 

 

We require hard objective evidence, with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, and our own first hand observations,  no faith or trust is placed in anything or anyone.

 

If we could get "skeptics"  to stop arguing long enough to come see for themselves, then YES it would change the world.

 

Believe me if it were within my power to force you to see for yourself, I would do so.

 

We do the best we can, if people refuse the evidence and refuse to look for themselves, we can do nothing more for them.

 

 

 

 

Hi Ilovecoffee,

 

You mentioned:

 

"We require hard objective evidence, with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, and our own first hand observations,  no faith or trust is placed in anything or anyone."

 

The problem is that real scientists have said the video is not done with the scientific method and would not hold up under any scientific standard.

 

To be honest I am a skeptic of nothing, maybe he is real, maybe he isn't. The thing for me is.. if the system is real others should be able to do it as well.

 

Now the goal of spirituality isn't to break a brick or any of that nonsense.

 

True depth in spirituality has always been something like a guru helping to move others along, silence a mind, remove obstructions... you know that type of thing.

 

So a video of some dude doing tricks is all over the place.. Having someone come around and fill you with bliss.. well that is a whole different thing.

 

That is the type of thing that would change the world. That is the type of thing that impresses me.

 

You know anyone that is able to do such things within your tradition and is willing to demonstrate it?

 

It is very rare so I understand if you don't. If that is so.. then one should tone down the whole.. my system will change the world type announcements.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Jonesboy

[Ilovecoffee]

Just now, Jonesboy said:

 

Hi Ilovecoffee,

 

You mentioned:

 

"We require hard objective evidence, with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, and our own first hand observations,  no faith or trust is placed in anything or anyone."

 

The problem is that real scientists have said the video is not done with the scientific method and would not hold up under any scientific standard.

 

To be honest I am a skeptic of nothing, maybe he is real, maybe he isn't. The thing for me is.. if the system is real others should be able to do it as well.

 

Now the goal of spirituality isn't to break a brick or any of that nonsense.

 

True depth in spirituality has always been something like a guru helping to move others along, silence a mind, remove obstructions... you know that type of thing.

 

So a video of some dude doing tricks is all over the place.. Having someone come around and fill you with bliss.. well that is a whole different thing.

 

That is the type of thing that would change the world. That is the type of thing that impresses me.

 

You know anyone that is able to do such things within your tradition and is willing to demonstrate it?

 

 

John displayed his abilities in a controlled environment, and scientists and medical doctors were present to rule out fraud.   This occurred and was objectively documented on camera.  If you disagree, then I am not interested in further dialog with you.

 

Best wishes.

 

[Jonesboy]

Just now, Ilovecoffee said:

 

 

John displayed his abilities in a controlled environment, and scientists and medical doctors were present to rule out fraud.   This occurred and was objectively documented on camera.  If you disagree, then I am not interested in further dialog with you.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

What about my other questions?

 

 

[Ilovecoffee]

Just now, Jonesboy said:

 

What about my other questions?

 

 

 

Tom,

 

Unfortunately we come from different mindsets, and are going to keep clashing.  You'll have to find someone else to talk to.

 

Best wishes.

 

[Jonesboy]

Just now, Ilovecoffee said:

 

Tom,

 

Unfortunately we come from different mindsets, and are going to keep clashing.  You'll have to find someone else to talk to.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

Hi Ilovecoffee,

 

I don't see us clashing and I hope you don't feel like I am attacking you. Just asking questions is all.

 

My practice has been attacked here on the bums a lot.. just par for the course but when you when make big claims.. well expect a response both positive and negative.

 

I would agree it seems we are going in circles and not adding any value.

 

I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

All the best,

 

Tom

[Ilovecoffee]

1 hour ago, Jonesboy said:

I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

 

I'd settle for finding less of what were not

[Jonesboy]

1 minute ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

I'd settle for finding less of what were not

 

We are everything... so find more of what you truly are that is hidden

[dawei]

4 hours ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

 

John displayed his abilities in a controlled environment, and scientists and medical doctors were present to rule out fraud.   This occurred and was objectively documented on camera.  If you disagree, then I am not interested in further dialog with you.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

That is a great point !!!

 

So why not document on camera student outcomes.   That would be really cool.  

 

I've heard the arguments from all sides and I will agree with the idea that a picture is worth a 1,000 words

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

Seriously people Why! Why! Why! do you have to keep mentioning pie,pie, pie. I have been trying so hard to keep my sword hand calm but I am going to lose it and things are going to get ugly.

 

Let me give you a visual of ugly.... passed out being food wasted from eating  pie after pie all things around me covered in pie. I have no self control around pie and you guys know it and have to keep bringing it up over and over and over again.

For the love of God please stop..

[silent thunder]

I just took it as a sign from the universe and went to get a couple pies from the local bakery.

 

One Blackberry and one Apple.  nom nom nom!