Long men pai nei gong and mo pai

[Ilovecoffee]

8 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

I believe this is the thread where I did a lot of posting trying to tell people that Ilovecoffee is making many things up regarding time required to be spent meditating to make real progress.

The key retort they have is that they train exactly as taught by Jim and Kostas. I have gone and found all the material I own from Jim and kostas and thought it be worth while sharing something.

Below is Jim exact words, copied and pasted from the training material for level 1 and 2 given to his students.

 

Start Quote

 

You should start out gradually; I started out doing meditation for five minutes, then I quickly
advanced to ten. This may not sound like much, but you have to remember you will be doing this
literally for years. So, to start off slowly almost guarantees your longevity. If you start too fast
you will most certainly quit early and likely never achieve your goal. Buy starting slowly to train
yourself allows your mind and body to become adjusted…and then your mind and body will
actually tell you that it can take more when it is ready. When this happens you must
accommodate this by adding either a minute or a few minutes at a time. Just as long as you take
your time, and not be in a hurry…this way you will find it is easier to increase your time.
In Mo Pai, there is no specific time each day to meditate. However, one hour is usual for
most people because most of us work and have family responsibilities. But, if you are single you
can take more time to train. Either way, you can do more if it is possible, which may increase
your development. If you have families don’t take away quality time from them. This is for you
as much as it is for them.
I worked up to one hour over a period of two years. When I reached one hour I started a second
session for the day with another hour. I would do one hour and stop and do some other things,
then I would return and do another session of one hour. After a while I started trying to do more
than an hour at a time and occasionally did 2 hours straight. But mostly I would only do one hour
each session per day.
So, I would highly recommend that you take your time so you can withstand all the issues
that will come up and be able to adjust to them. It is similar to working out with weights, you
don’t just start bench pressing over two-hundred pounds…you’ve got to work up to it. If you
tried you most likely would rip tendons, and or tear muscles and this would force you to stop.

 

End quote

 

They keep saying they do the material as taught by Jim, who is always cited as the person who made the most progress, and that they do the training exactly as taught by him. You can see what Jim was saying regarding training now and decide how exact this group of Ilovecoffee is keeping to the materials.

 

Ilovecoffee would you like to argue with Jim himself regarding how much time should be spent meditating? Do you want to say you train exactly as taught by them? He also clearly writes that he meditated every day.

Drops mic, walks away.

 

 

 

Small Dream,

 

It is also true that John Chang himself said that sitting and breathing was not "actual meditation", and that a student sitting and breathing for an hour a day would take 10 years to fill the LDT.   That sitting and breathing is approximately 2% as effective as "actual meditation".

 

I guess it depends if you want to put a lot more time and effort into something than necessary.

 

Can you sit and breathe and fill the LDT in 10 years at 1 hour per day,  yes you certainly can.

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Starjumper]

On 8/24/2017 at 2:39 AM, Sudhamma said:

Yes, Hancock, it is 'chi', the energy that gives life.

 

This is incorrect.  What is between heaven and earth is living beings, like people for example.  That's why it says it's always changing and yet stays the same.  It's part of the three tiered system in the philosophy,  Heaven, man, Earth.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Starjumper

[Ilovecoffee]

Just now, 小梦想 said:

That is what Jim taught. You altered it. Your teachings are NOT unaltered and exactly as taught by Jim.

 

I would like to make it clear nothing we present is altered. 

 

All pieces from Jim or Kosta are presented unaltered. 

 

We present both.

[Starjumper]

2 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

That is what Jim taught. You altered it. Your teachings are NOT unaltered and exactly as taught by Jim.

 

They altered them a lot.

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Ilovecoffee]

Just now, 小梦想 said:

 

So you say but I have just caught you lying. Who is to say what else you altered and lie about.

One lie leads to many. You have lost all credibility with me. You have lost all power and now can leave because your only reason for staying on this forum as you claim is now moot.

 

Believe what you like small dream.

 

We present what Jim and Kosta brought back and nothing more, if you think we are lying then think that.

 

 

 

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Ilovecoffee]

39 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

 

It is now clear to everyone on this forum that not only did you alter what was taught but the also dictate the statements you make regarding how to train is directly from Jim. You lied about it and back tracked when confronted with evidence of your deceipt

If you say, we only teach exactly what Jim and Kostas taught, then make statements that aren't in line with what they taught, it is lying. 

Do you want me to quote Websters definition of a liar to you?

 

 

 

 

Well here is a bit from Kosta's public work the Magus of Java:

 

 

"“In Level One you fill up your dantien with yang ch’i. You must
be in actual meditation to achieve this, and it is time dependent."

 

 

"Perhaps in one hour of sitting, he is actually

in meditation for 1.3 minutes. That means he is meditating only 2.2
percent of the time, which means that if he sits for one hour a day, he
needs ten years of training ..."

 

"Meditation is like the borderline between
sleep and waking, between consciousness and unconsciousness.”

 

"I will enter total meditation—like the borderline
between sleep and waking, okay?"

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Ilovecoffee]

35 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

I am quite sure it is not what you have been trying to promote as unaltered instructions before...

 

This is why you shouldn't lie, people will find out eventually when all your nonsense condenses into a big ball of nonsense that then explodes and takes any fraction of credibility you ever had with it.

 

 

We present both Jim and Kostas private work to students,  we don't alter the words they wrote.

 

If you believe we are liars, then believe that.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Hancock]

12 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

 

We present both Jim and Kostas private work to students,  we don't alter the words they wrote.

 

If you believe we are liars, then believe that.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Hancock

[Ilovecoffee]

Earl,

 

Please see my post here:

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/44486-long-men-pai-nei-gong-and-mo-pai/?do=findComment&comment=778937

 

 

 

[Starjumper]

11 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

Blither, blither, blither ...

 

Your stated reason for trashing this forum no longer exists, you can leave now.

[TheDustAutumn]

From their own forum, quotes from one of Kostas students that was tested by JC and finished level 1 and speaks on how long it took him to finish level1
 

Quote

celLproject said: ↑

        Did anyone felt anything or passed level 1 how long have u been training, me just started

    Five years 1 hour every day, half lotus.

 

 

Quote

Quote

For you that you are practicing Level One my opinion or advise about it.Years ago when I had started level one it was my Teacher that that told me: "This is the exercise you have to practice one hour per day with such and such a way "
Then for 2 years I was practicing every day as I had been told.At that time there was, no you tube ,no magus of Java,no forums.After 2 years I was 50% full.
I don't know if it was my martial arts background but I shutted up and just practiced.
I do understand that a forum is for exchange of opinions and research,but there is no more important thing of the practice alone.
Don't enter this labyrinth of what I must feel,how long I ve progressed or have I finished ?
Just practice...

 

 

Quote

    It is not linear and in fact most people that I know finished in less than five years.the problem is that from 0% to 50% you may go very fast let's say one to two years then you need two more years to reach 75% and then Two more years from 75% to 100%.
    The reason is that the Dan tien in the beginning accepts a large amoun ao yang chi but them you must stretch it further and it "Resists"...
    I know a person that has finished it in four years but with one hour practice every day but ofcourse he never spent a minute about writing posts in neigong forums.

 

 

Quote

    Only one hour every day but every day.I am repeating that when I had started was circa 95 /96 .....this was 20 years back.there were no "internet", no books, no forums.
    I was practicing half lotus one hour per day and that's all.no deep trance,no 12 hours per day.
    That was the minimum acceptable.As previously I have written ,for the one hour in the beginning 59 minutes were wasted but somewhere there was the one minute of pure consecration.
    I knew nothing about the 81 hours of pure constration,nothing about spirits nothing about level 2 or four,nothing.
    I was just doing as instructed.Then the first result came after examination after two years.
    I know people that had finished in three years, four years or five years.I know also someone practising for five years and he was still 20 %.Was that result of wrong practice or not practicing at all I am not in a position to know.
    It is different to have the practice for five years it is different to practice one hour every day for five years.
    I would like to apologize but I can not give you the details of the exersice,but I do suppose that every one in this forum one way or another have it.

 

Also him on what's inside the books and how you should not use them as a Bible
 

Quote

No cause I was never in front the conversations.My reasoning is that Kosta had his agenda that didn't work,(Kosta is my friend and mentor the last 29 years), and Jim wrote his book in the twightlight of Mo Pai having his own agenda.The only thing that I know for sure is that you can not write a book with the sayings of J.C,cause he doesn't speak so much. Then you have to find a way to fil the book.I am not saying that they have written lies ,but from one two sentences of J.C you have to fill 200 pages.

Edit: Underlines belong to me

 

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by TheDustAutumn
To underline some stuff

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Ilovecoffee]

1 hour ago, 小梦想 said:

 

No one cares anymore. You have been caught out lying and giving your own opinion trying to push it off as direct instructions from Jim, Kostas and John Chang.

 

Your words are poison and some newer members might read what you say and believe it is actually the instructions of Jim or John Chang. 

Have you no shame?

 

 

That is exactly what John taught, it is not my opinion on the matter.

 

What we do is preserve all of these things and present them to people who are serious.

 

We don't open up Jim's emails and change the wording of what he wrote.

 

Does that make sense to you?

 

[Hancock]

10 hours ago, Ilovecoffee said:

Earl,

 

Please see my post here:

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/44486-long-men-pai-nei-gong-and-mo-pai/?do=findComment&comment=778937

 

 

 

You referencing me or Earl Grey. My mistake as in have little in the way if context to build on in ur post.

[Ilovecoffee]

1 hour ago, 小梦想 said:

 

You don't alter the words they wrote yet come on here claiming to follow their exact teaching but give your own opinion on how to train.

You are outright deceiving people. They believe the information you give is from Jim and Kostas, but in reality you are giving your own opinion (or someone else's) based on what you just quoted.

 

You can try to weasel your way out of this, but you can't. 

 

You said people should not train every day, people should try to do 10 hours a day because doing any less is a waste of time. All this you said while claiming to stay true to what Jim taught. Jim taught the exact opposite of what you were saying. You are dishonest and deceitful. It is clear to anyone with eyes that you are a liar.

 

It is what John taught, and that is the end of the argument.

 

It isn't our opinion on how things are, it's how things are.

 

 

 

 

[Ilovecoffee]

9 hours ago, TheDustAutumn said:

From their own forum, quotes from one of Kostas students that was tested by JC and finished level 1 and speaks on how long it took him to finish level1
 

 

 

 

Also him on what's inside the books and how you should not use them as a Bible
 

Edit: Underlines belong to me

 

 

 

I want to be clear when you say "their own forum"  this is referring a forum, but not ours.

 

In public situations like this, it is not an option to quote private material, only publicly released material.

 

 

 

[Hancock]

2 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

I want to be clear when you say "their own forum"  this is referring a forum, but not ours.

 

In public situations like this, it is not an option to quote private material, only publicly released material.

 

 

 

And 

5 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

It is what John taught, and that is the end of the argument.

 

It isn't our opinion on how things are, it's how things are.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow just didnt answer my question, disrespectfully sidestepping it. Your sense of honor is selective. It's clear you're here to fight people and get followers to feed into your Cult you've created based on information you obtained. There's no rationalization with your kind, it just is used as fuel to reinforce your beliefs one way or another.

 

Please be more direct in the future as to who out talk with, as my name is Earl an you know that because we talked before bout it.

[Kar3n]

4 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

It is what John taught, and that is the end of the argument.

 

It isn't our opinion on how things are, it's how things are.

 

 

 

 

Jim recommends starting slow and building up. You say no, wait for retirement and mediate 10 hours a day bare assed in the dirt.

 

How is anyone to know what was really taught and by whom if what is coming out about Mo Pai is not consistent? What makes your word any more credible than than the next guy/gal?

[Ilovecoffee]

1 minute ago, Hancock said:

And 

 

Wow just didnt answer my question, disrespectfully sidestepping it. Your sense of honor is selective. It's clear you're here to fight people and get followers to feed into your Cult you've created based on information you obtained. There's no rationalization with your kind, it just is used as fuel to reinforce your beliefs one way or another.

 

Please be more direct in the future as to who out talk with, as my name is Earl an you know that because we talked before bout it.

 

Earl Grey was who I was replying to.