Long men pai nei gong and mo pai

[liminal_luke]

Nine here.

[Brian]

13, whatever that means...

[Kar3n]

11 minutes ago, Brian said:

13, whatever that means...

Me too. FWIW, it did say, "Your score indicates that you have no Cluster B "dramatic" personality disorder"

 

[idquest]

5 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

What`s incredible about this thread is how little it has to do with Mo Pai.  There`s no discussion of technique, personal experience, learning opportunities.  It`s not that there`s no interest in Mo Pai; many Bums have requested information and Thelerner has even offered to open up a tightly moderated thread about the subject in his PPF.  But still, it`s a no go.  The people who ostensibly come here to share something about Mo Pai, clear up misconceptions and so forth, don`t have the slightest intentions of sharing squat.

 

So, if this thread (now at 16 pages) isn`t about Mo Pai, what is it about?  It`s an in depth examination of a few Bums personalities who claim to practice Mo Pai.  Most of what`s said is negative but they don`t seem to mind so much.  To a certain kind of person, all this attention is emotional food.  Maybe they take it in energetically and use it as an alchemical substance to light fires?

 

Actually the thread does touch on MP as well as on other schools. Two things to note. First - humility is in scarce supply here. From both MP side and those who oppose MP group. It is difficult for me to imagine how one can advance in any art without a good level of humility. The second thing - is it just naive to expect that a serious practitioner of serious art will discuss any significant detail of practice in an open forum. Not gonna happen. But thelerner actually suggested an interesting idea: to discuss the method of sitting. I'd narrow down this even more: please state average time of a single session and how you sit, on the floor, on a chair spine erect, or in a recliner. It will be interesting to hear from ilovecoffee on this one. I personally sit for 70-75 minutes on the floor in a Burmese.

Edited July 1, 2017 by idquest

[liminal_luke]

Idquest,

 

I`m not opposed to Mo Pai, not at all.  Actually, I know almost nothing about it -- certainly not enough to have an opinion for or against.  Nor do I mind people keeping their practices to themselves.  While I love personal stories, there are some I won`t tell, some I`d advise against other people telling.  Sacred experiences deserve to be treated as such.  

 

I would ask, however, that those who prefer not to share don`t tell me what I`m missing.  If you want to be quiet, be quiet.

[Ilovecoffee]

On 6/30/2017 at 11:38 AM, thelerner said:

 

As far as knowing better then what Jim and Kosta taught, that is one of the things that leads to circular arguments, ie from Tongkosong, an Indonesian student of Mo Pai saying

 

 

One of the Indonesian students here uses terms that are only in use in the USA, something even an Indonesian who speaks great English wouldn't know about unless they watched American TV each day.  

 

We had a member who tried to pass themselves off as an Indonesian student using a proxy,  they turned out to be from the US. 

 

If you aren't going to allow what Jim and Kosta were taught, then what the *********** are you doing with that thread?

 

Seriously, why even have it?

 

Sure you can talk about MoPai, so long as you don't quote the only two authorities on the topic that you can quote.

 

So far virtually every word in every post of that thread has nothing to do with MoPai, and serves only to misguide and delude people seeking the real deal. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Ilovecoffee]

9 hours ago, Brian said:

Ah.

 

http://www.airduster.com/MSDS/BlowOff134aSDS201502-04-15.pdf

http://mfc.engr.arizona.edu/safety/MSDS FOLDER/Memorex Air Duster MSDS.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_duster

 

Not all things which do the same thing are the same thing, you see.

 

 

Specifically the bottle of air duster that I was holding stated it was R-134a on the MSDS.

 

R-134a, R-143a, R-152a refrigerants are in use for air dusters, all of these are refrigerants, but the person I was speaking with was convinced it was not any form of refrigerant.

 

[Ilovecoffee]

7 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

What`s incredible about this thread is how little it has to do with Mo Pai.  There`s no discussion of technique, personal experience, learning opportunities.  It`s not that there`s no interest in Mo Pai; many Bums have requested information and Thelerner has even offered to open up a tightly moderated thread about the subject in his PPF.  But still, it`s a no go.  The people who ostensibly come here to share something about Mo Pai, clear up misconceptions and so forth, don`t have the slightest intentions of sharing squat.

 

So, if this thread (now at 16 pages) isn`t about Mo Pai, what is it about?  It`s an in depth examination of a few Bums personalities who claim to practice Mo Pai.  Most of what`s said is negative but they don`t seem to mind so much.  To a certain kind of person, all this attention is emotional food.  Maybe they take it in energetically and use it as an alchemical substance to light fires?

 

It is not possible to have a serious discussion on this topic here in an open forum,  other members have tried and been banned for it for no reason while remaining polite.  

 

It is not tolerated by the community or administration, and we aren't even going to try. 

 

 

[Ilovecoffee]

1 hour ago, idquest said:

It will be interesting to hear from ilovecoffee on this one.

 

No.

[liminal_luke]

34 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

It is not possible to have a serious discussion on this topic here in an open forum,  other members have tried and been banned for it for no reason while remaining polite.  

 

It is not tolerated by the community or administration, and we aren't even going to try. 

 

 

 

TheLerner is doing his darndest to have a "serious discussion on this topic," but let`s say you`re right.  It`s impossible.  No reason to even try.  This place is full of people hostile to the practice.  

 

Ok, so my question: If we`re so bad, why are you talking to us?  Your goal here isn`t to discuss Mo Pai...so what do you hope to accomplish?  Have you been successful?

[Ilovecoffee]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

TheLerner is doing his darndest to have a "serious discussion on this topic,"

 

Yes he is having a serious discussion on something, on what I am not sure.

 

 

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

but let`s say you`re right.  It`s impossible.  No reason to even try.  This place is full of people hostile to the practice.  

 

Ok, so my question: If we`re so bad, why are you talking to us?  Your goal here isn`t to discuss Mo Pai...so what do you hope to accomplish?  Have you been successful?

 

 

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/44486-long-men-pai-nei-gong-and-mo-pai/?do=findComment&comment=761571

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Kar3n]

I am suddenly laughing at this whole thing. Am I the only one reminded of a particular Seinfeld episode?

 

Spoiler

 

[SeekerOfHealing]

I practice in Longmen School and have longmen teacher (not public and not wang liping lineage). 

 

Ask question to practitioner and do not spread lies about my school. Longmen does not have any of outer alchemy as such and we work very little with outer alchemy. 

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

Oh, I have no doubt you think the opposite

 

There have been several other videos, like that of Jiang, but unless scientists and medical doctors were present in a controlled location to rule out fraud we have never been fascinated or interested in them. 

 

 me neither ...  but what 'scientists '  ? 

 

19 hours ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

The fate quote was from the movie you posted a picture of.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes ... point is     ..   its a movie .       the visuals and script are equally  'valid' as reality .  Get it ?     No ?  Hmmmmmm .

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, Kar3n said:

Am I reading this correctly? As long as a person believes the same way you do and agrees with you can form a relation/friendship with them otherwise all is "fake" and not worthy of investment?

 

 

Ahem   coff  cofff   < male >  cough .. ahem ! 

[Ilovecoffee]

7 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

I already explained what's rude about your expression, and you dismissed it in summary as saying, "Well, I'm being authentic"  and in an earlier message, said "If that's rude, then that's too bad, so sad." 

 

It is akin to a guy, Mr. Smith, who wondered why the Lee family never invites him over anymore when he's "perfectly well-mannered" but when it was pointed out to him that he was quite rude for insulting their cooking by claiming it's unhealthy and not taking off his shoes when the rule of the house is no shoes, he says that they are judgmental and critical. HELLO, REALITY CHECK. You don't think it's rude, but we do. 

 

So if you can't see what's wrong and then when someone--actually, many people--all point out what's wrong with your way of expressing yourself, which is abrasive and condescending, self-righteous, trivializing and dismissing other people's practices, which is therefore most definitely not polite as you say, then you're on your own! 

 

Now while you may say you get along just fine in real life, guess what: this is still real life because we are actual people here behind these words and posts. Furthermore, you may not even have the sensitivity to know what other people "in real life" (i.e. outside Internet forums) think about you because you write them off for not being part of your NO HOMERS CLUB and not agreeing with your values, opinions, presumed self-importance, and perception of reality.

 

 

 

The only solution that would make you happy earl is to lie about who we are and what we are about.  The whole premise of only studying arts for which there is good objective evidence with scientists and medical doctors to rule out fraud, and your own first hand observations, is somehow offensive to you.

 

 

 

[allinone]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Not what I said at all. Bye, bye, Miss American Pie, drove my chevy to my levy...

 

that sentence feels like sensual craving.

 

Do you like to cause that to feel in others, so they would feel a need to answer you back?

 

you are a drain.

(will delete this post if it is against Tos)

Edited July 1, 2017 by allinone

[silent thunder]

I discovered a tool of alchemy

that reveals the source of suffering and aggravation

in one's experience of life.

 

it's probably in your house right now...

 

mounted on the wall behind the sink in the bathroom.

 

 

 

and now... for the first time today...

also in haiku form:

 

tool of alchemy

reveals source of suffering...

the bathroom mirror

[Nungali]

I think he holds back a bit  ....   you want mullet ?    I say  ... go the full mullet ... dont do things by halves ! 

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by Nungali

[thelerner]

On 6/30/2017 at 9:08 PM, Ilovecoffee said:

If you aren't going to allow what Jim and Kosta were taught, then what the **** are you doing with that thread?

 

Seriously, why even have it?

 

Sure you can talk about MoPai, so long as you don't quote the only two authorities on the topic that you can quote.

 

So far virtually every word in every post of that thread has nothing to do with MoPai, and serves only to misguide and delude people seeking the real deal. 

Are you serious?  I've started a serious, no humor, no anti-Mo pai tirades, just serious talk on Mo Pai techniques. And you've spammed it 5 or 6 times with sarcastic remarks.  You honestly only came here to fight about Mo Pai not discuss it.  But I can do that too.

 

In my thread on Serious Mo Pai, I do allow quotes and information from the books.  It should be known that to some extent they're kinda like foreigners who've learned about Christianity through Mormon missionaries then come to the US and find many of there beliefs are not mainstream, in some cases are considered laughable and made up.  Not that there's no value to them.

 

It should be known Western Mo Pai has that kind of feel to those who've studied in Indonesia.  Here are quotes from an Indonesian student.  ** note he's saying how great he is, or even Mo Pai is, he's just stating that his schools view, Western Mo Pai is not accurate.  On the other hand, thats not saying its wrong, just in translation, things get mixed up. 

On 6/29/2014 at 0:17 PM, tongkosong said:

 

Leo, I can't force people to stop labeling Jim's instructions as "real Mo Pai". I don't agree with it as it is not an accurate Mo Pai instructions. I can't stop anyone from doing anything, but, I felt it is my duty to let people know what the truth is. Many people have been using the Mo Pai's name for many things; some people used it for bad things. There was a website labeled as the official Mo Pai website, and we refuted it. There was a teacher saying that he himself is a student of the current Mo Pai headmaster, and we refuted that. All I, and my Mo Pai "brothers", can do is tell the truth and refute those that are untrue, in the hopes that people will not fall victim to false teachings and scammers.

 

On 6/29/2014 at 1:58 AM, tongkosong said:

 

Ken, you speak of respect for Jim and his private teachings. I find it ironic that Jim, himself, did not have the honor and respect for John Chang and his lineage when he taught others Mo Pai's techniques when he never had permission to do so. Before anyone can debate whether Jim had John Chang's permission to teach, consider this, if John Chang himself was not allowed to teach non-Chinese, would he give permission to Jim to teach to others? Furthermore, I have read Jim's instructions on Mo Pai techniques. They are faulty and many parts of the instructions Jim added himself, thus, not the real Mo Pai techniques. Just be careful when you train using those improper instructions.

 

On 11/26/2013 at 1:06 AM, tongkosong said:

 

Please understand that More Pie Guy does not represent Mopai or its views. He was taught by Jim, who was an outdoor student of Mopai. I feel that none of us should be able to have the final authority on what is Yin or what is being taught in a school. I am not worthy or knowledgable enough to represent Mopai or John Chang's views. Unless a student is given authority by the master of a school to represent the school's ideas and views, I feel it is better to keep our opinion to ourselves and maybe learn from others. In my opinion, the Magus of Java was never intended by John Chang to be the bible on everything Neigong related, but, I am not saying that everything in the book is false.

 

As to More Pie Guy's opinion to Jim's accomplishments (compared to the indoor Indonesian students), I would say it is good to have a high opinion on your teacher, but do not do that while belittling others' accomplishments. This put you and Jim in a bad light because your ignorance shows your arrogance.

 

Instead of arguing and promoting your views, More Pie Guy, it would be better use of your time to further your practice. I humbly hope that if you insist on continuing your arguments, please avoid using Mopai's name or John Chang's. Remember Jim's conversation with John Chang was mostly done through an interpreter, a non-professional interpreter at that.

 

[Ilovecoffee]

37 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Are you serious?  I've started a serious, no humor, no anti-Mo pai tirades, just serious talk on Mo Pai techniques. And you've spammed it 5 or 6 times with sarcastic remarks.  You honestly only came here to fight about Mo Pai not discuss it.  But I can do that too.

 

In my thread on Serious Mo Pai, I do allow quotes and information from the books.  It should be known that to some extent they're kinda like foreigners who've learned about Christianity through Mormon missionaries then come to the US and find many of there beliefs are not mainstream, in some cases are considered laughable and made up. 

 

It should be known Western Mo Pai has that kind of feel to those who've studied in Indonesia.  Here are quotes from an Indonesian student.  ** note he's saying how great he is, or even Mo Pai is, he's just stating that his schools view, Western Mo Pai is not accurate.  On the other hand, thats not saying its wrong, just in translation, things get mixed up. 

 

 

 

 

 

My god man.  Jim and Kosta ARE THE ONLY TWO AUTHORITIES THAT CAN BE QUOTED, THERE IS NO ONE ELSE.

 

Jim was tested personally by Chang level by level, and like it or not, he actually did go further than the majority of the Indonesian students.

 

Your post is anything but serious discussion on MoPai, it has nothing at all to do with it.

 

Also we have no idea who these people claiming to be Indonesian students really are,  we had one who registered on our forum, claiming to be an Indonesian student using a proxy server, later it was discovered he was in the USA.

 

One of the "Indonesian" students here uses words that are only in use in the USA and just recently coined, so if you don't watch US television you wouldn't even know about it,  that also raises my suspicion.

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[thelerner]

Please re-read the notes from tongkosong, an Indonesia student.  Like a Mormon (no offense to them, using them as an example) they see the Book of Mormon as ofcourse equal to the bible.  How can it be doubted.  Like them, if you were actually trained in Mo Pai, by the Mo Pai school, the real authentic one in Indonesia, by a certified teacher.  You would undoubtedly hold the same view as Tongkosong. 

 

But, like a Mormon, you were trained to regard certain books as 'canon' from the start, even though no authentic Mo Pai practitioner would.  Thus you have powerful cognitive dissonance.

 

I'm sure what you know is not a bad system and many benefits.  But if you think it'll make you into a 'John Chang' it won't.  At best you could become like Jim McMillan from his writings he got alot of out the system.  I just read a wonderful very poignant letter he wrote how it changed and improved his life. 

 

I'm sure it did.  Power-wise though, after 10-12 years of practicing (3 or 4 hours a day?), he could move his hand in a darkened basement and make empty boxes across the room fall IF John Chang (& friends) were in the room.  So, power-wise that's pretty weak after spending 10 to 12,000 hours on the system if 'powers' are what you're looking and don't have JC in your basement at all times.  However he was smart enough to know and write that the benefits were elsewhere.  Not powers, but understanding, even love.  If you want I can try to dig up t letter he wrote on the internet, very touching.

 

What I'm getting at is, your gang tries to sell MP using 20 year old John Chang videos, and on the power they'll give you.  Seems bait and switch to me.   As so many traditions have stated, focus too much on power acquisition and you end up bad places.  Hell even Kostas who practically wrote your bible is no longer practices and like John Chang your actual prophet says bug off. 

 

No wonder there's a strange bitter undercurrent to you guys. 

 

Also, something else occurs to me.  You guys want attention and I'm giving it to you, we all are.  You're welcome.

[idquest]

Well there have been other western students who studied directly with JC, not only Jim and Kosta.

[Ilovecoffee]

15 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Please re-read the notes from tongkosong, an Indonesia student.  Like a Mormon (no offense the them, using them as an example) they see the Book of Mormon as ofcourse equal to the bible.  How can it be doubted.  Like them, if you were actually trained in Mo Pai, by the Mo Pai school, the real authentic one in Indonesia, by a certified teacher.  You would undoubtedly hold the same view as Tongkosong. 

 

But, like a Mormon, you were trained to regard certain books as 'canon' from the start, even though no authentic Mo Pai practitioner would.  Thus you have powerful cognitive dissonance.

 

I'm sure what you know is not a bad system and many benefits.  But if you think it'll make you into a 'John Chang' it won't.  At best you could become like Jim McMillan from his writings he got alot of out the system.  I just read a wonderful very poignant letter he wrote how it changed and improved his life. 

 

I'm sure it did.  Power-wise though, after 10-12 years of practicing (3 or 4 hours a day?), he could move his hand in a darkened basement and make empty boxes across the room fall IF John Chang (& friends) were in the room.  So, power-wise that's pretty weak after spending 10 to 12,000 hours on the system if 'powers' are what you're looking and don't have JC in your basement at all times.  However he was smart enough to know and write that the benefits were elsewhere.  Not powers, but understanding, even love.  If you want I can try to dig up t letter he wrote on the internet, very touching.

 

What I'm getting at is, your gang tries to sell MPG using 20 year old John Chang videos, and on the power they'll give you.  Seems bait and switch to me.   As so many traditions have stated, focus too much on power acquisition and you end up bad places.  Hell even Kostas who practically wrote your bible is no longer practices and like John Chang your actual prophet says bug off. 

 

No wonder there's a strange bitter undercurrent to you guys. 

 

 

We present the evidence of John's investigation with scientists and medical doctors present in a controlled location to rule out fraud, and we present the teachings passed along via Jim, Kosta.

 

Any serious student who pursues it WILL experience the same things we all have, and even the strongest Atheist skeptic couldn't deny their own first hand observations.

 

Surely it would be better to be born ethnically Chinese, rich so you never have to work, and could study, meditate, and train 24 x 7 directly with John himself. 

 

Unfortunately we don't have that option, we only have what we have.

 

Show us another system that has at least as much evidence behind it as MoPai, and we'll drop MoPai and pursue it instead.

 

In your discussion of MoPai you allow the nonsense posts as valid, and reject Jim and Kosta as idiots who have no clue what they were taught.

 

This is so bizarre and utterly backwards it makes my brain bleed.

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[thelerner]

OMG, your head is bleeding.   oh shit, you should look into that. 

Wait.. your way is to exaggerate when cornered.  Its not bleeding.  Likewise you don't have to 'train 24x7 with John himself'.  You do have to train in Indonesia or with a reputable approved school and Mo Pai teacher.  That may be doable.  It might take work or travel but it may be possible.

 

You could at least stop spouting the 'MPG corporate line' and find authentic Mo Pai students and get there input.  That'd be the honest way.  I suspect they'll echo Tongkosong. 

 

Look at your own reply.  You're mentioning a 20 year old John Chang video.  Why?  Because JC showed magic powers in it, then others can get powers by doing Mo Pai, right?   But did student Jim McMillan have powers?  How long have you studied, do you?  Or others?   Are you training like they do in Indonesia and do they have powers? 

 

You, yourself earlier hinted at the (mental) problems of many who obsess on Mo Pai looking for them..

 

The reason these threads last 20 to 30 pages is you guys have 9 pre-recorded answers and you keep spitting them out.