Long men pai nei gong and mo pai

[Mudfoot]

We flock to the Mo Pai threads like flies to a dead horse,  because they used to be entertaining. 

 

This one turned out rather dull. 

 

Ilovecoffe is at least consistent, and very clear in why s/he is posting. 

 

To notify likeminded that there is a chance to learn whatever they are teaching at another forum,  and develope whatever they are developing by their practice. 

 

Rather vague,  but that is evidently part of it. 

 

I almost miss being called an idiot. 

 

[Chang]

5 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

Chang,

 

Believe it or not, I've tried my best to remain polite, and share as much as I possibly can.

 

My sincerest apologies that my best efforts are not to your liking.

 

 

You are indeed as polite as you are annoying but it is not a question of your being to my liking or otherwise.

 

The question (which I entertain no hope of your answering) is why on earth you keep harping on as you do?

 

You show nothing but disdain for any neigung practice other than your own practice of Western Mo Pai. You will give no details of this practice and yet continually claim that it has been scientifically authenticated.

 

The Grandmaster of Mo Pai refuses to train western students having previously trained only two westerners in the rudiments of his art.

 

You now cite these two as having provided you with the knowledge to train in this art and that those partaking of such training have achieved great things - the details of which you will not share.

 

It is all as laughable as it is sad and dull and in all honesty I do not know whether to laugh or cry when the latest - in the ever lengthening line - of More Pie Jihadi's turns up on the forum.

 

I do however feel that this thread has probably reached the end of the road.

[Ilovecoffee]

2 minutes ago, Chang said:

You show nothing but disdain for any neigung practice other than your own practice of Western Mo Pai.

 

I think you misunderstand, not being interested in something if there is no good objective evidence behind it isn't the same thing as disdain.   It just means we aren't willing to invest any time or energy into something unless we feel we have a good reason to do so.

 

3 minutes ago, Chang said:

The Grandmaster of Mo Pai refuses to train western students having previously trained only two westerners in the rudiments of his art.

 

I agree it's not an ideal situation, but we feel it's the best option available for us.

 

 

[Aeran]

I think this thread deserves an award for managing to say so little with so many words.

 

 

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Ilovecoffee]

23 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

A way around your problem may be this. Ask the moderators to have another account created that you can come and speak about your experiences as a person who does practices to fill the dantian. Wait until things die down then create a PPD or something. Then you are just a random persons online speaking about their experiences and what they achieved from sitting in full/half lotus for extended periods of time. Don't come as a representative of western mo pai. Just come as a person who does meditation.

 

Small Dream,

 

I wouldn't feel comfortable posting on ANY public forum, under ANY username about what I have experienced,  it absolutely cannot be believed,  I wouldn't believe it if someone else said they experienced the exact same thing.

 

It has to be seen first hand to be believed, it can't be believed any other way.

 

Your other questions will not be answered here.

 

Best wishes.

[Ilovecoffee]

Just now, Earl Grey said:

And yet many people here post openly about their practices and experiences, leaving it to the forum to decide how to react. Approximately 99% of the time, people have been very receptive to my experiences and had the same or similar as well, all while being exceptionally friendly. Yet--to Western Mo Pai standards, these people are frauds or we are not proven scientifically, and so our experiences are invalid. Oh well. 

 

So Earl,

 

If you were abducted by aliens, would you tell someone you wanted to take you seriously like a prospective employer that bit of information? Yup I was abducted by aliens for 10 days and flew around in their spaceship out past mars,  you should totally hire me as a senior Java developer!

 

If you knew a time and a date a UFO would land and aliens would get out,  to me it would make more sense just to take someone there and let them see for themselves rather than try and convince them of their existence based on your personal testimony of it.

 

Again I don't believe in aliens, this is just an analogy for me to try and explain why I am not going to talk about my experiences in an open environment.

 

Best wishes.

 

[Ilovecoffee]

59 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

I entered this forum precisely because of the openness of its members. Your logic there is that you presume everyone is going to automatically be unpleasant and skeptical.

 

It's a catch 22 situation Earl.  Any person that would not react in a violently skeptical manner to personal testimony of something like this, isn't someone we would want to associate with.   It's very hard for you to understand where we are coming from because again we have a different epistemology, they way you see the world is the opposite of the way we see it. 

 

 

 

59 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

It is boggling you would come here to say, "Hey, I have these unbelievable things I experienced!" and expecting us to jump on so quickly, but when we ask what and how, we are met with, "Oh, I'm not telling you".

 

It is strange to me how you distort our position so much.

 

Our position is:

 

Here is an investigation with a team of scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, they take John to a random location they chose, stripped him to a shirt and underwear, checked him for metal and documented his abilities on camera.  We don't want you taking anything on faith, but rather to come see for yourself, or don't.

 

59 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

But you also meet receptive people--which I find odd because that seems to be what you claim to want for your recruitment: to look for other seekers who follow your cabal. 

 

Yes but receptive to what?

 

What we find for the most part is the opposite of what we are looking for, people who are skeptical of objective evidence, and receptive to personal testimony.

 

We want people that are receptive to objective evidence, will accept nothing on faith, or the word of others, and will investigate for themselves.

 

Do you understand now?

 

59 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

So I shall simply wish you well,

 

I wish you well also, but hope you mean it this time. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Mudfoot]

Since the investigation on JC failed to become a formal scientific test, in a controlled environment, with a pre-formulated question that ends in a scientific paper with the process described and actual measurable results reported,  the entire logic of the discussion fails. 

 

The copper wall projekt, along with some research on biomagnetic fields (in my PPD)  remains the best although now old research on the subject. 

 

And the conclusions are (although weak) :

 

Practice qigong,  meditation and external Qi healing, and you might develope interesting manifestations. 

 

If you have any other conclusions, please add references here. Proper, non-anecdotal, published research please. 

 

Like the one rational people would like to read. 

[Ilovecoffee]

8 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

Since the investigation on JC failed to become a formal scientific test, in a controlled environment, with a pre-formulated question that ends in a scientific paper with the process described and actual measurable results reported,  the entire logic of the discussion fails. 

 

The copper wall projekt, along with some research on biomagnetic fields (in my PPD)  remains the best although now old research on the subject. 

 

And the conclusions are (although weak) :

 

Practice qigong,  meditation and external Qi healing, and you might develope interesting manifestations. 

 

If you have any other conclusions, please add references here. Proper, non-anecdotal, published research please. 

 

Like the one rational people would like to read. 

 

You can argue whatever you like, but we are looking for people that would accept the investigation of Chang as objective evidence, at least insofar as it would inspire them to come see for themselves.  You can argue it was a hoax, didn't happen, was photoshoped, the scientists were paid actors, whatever you want to if that makes you happy though.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Mudfoot]

46 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

You can argue whatever you like, /...... / You can argue it was a hoax, didn't happen, was photoshoped, the scientists were paid actors, whatever you want to if that makes you happy though.

 

 

If you actually read my post, or any of my posts on the subject, you will not find any of these arguments. 

 

But you will find more or less the same words written by previous Western Mo Pai practitioners, mostly when they are cornered. 

 

You claim rationality, but obviously only to the degree of someone joining your practice group, which by decree is what a rational person would decide to do. 

 

On the positive side,  this thread lives on. 

[Ilovecoffee]

31 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

This is me just wording my feelings.

 

The whole mo pai situation has created a warped view of what is possible from meditation and everyone part of it needs to make everything so magical and incredible. 

 

I find the words of the man who recently apparently completed level 4/5 to be in line with this. He speaks of this incredible surge when yin and yang combine, how he almost loses control as he had done the times before. How had had been preparing months for this day. How the intensity if almost too much to bear, this incredible world changing experience of raw power that can easily kill or maim or destroy. Eventually he tames the power and allows it to sink into stillness and equilibrium. 

 

After this incredibly detailed out of this world experience it takes him 20 minutes of struggling to generate a small current and shock. All that power and the magical fusion process to struggle for ages to emit even a small current/shock. What happened to the power? Where has it all gone? It's a wonderful feat don't get my wrong, but it's not exactly being abducted by aliens now is it. That would be so much cooler.

 

Such powerful forces when the time comes to actually demonstrate what he has turns into 20 minutes of struggling to generate a current. People are very theatrical and it is both amusing and frustrating. I know first hand they are making mole hills into mountains but so many others don't.

 

There is a serious issues with how people try to word what they are experiencing vs reality. I am not trolling, but come on, whatever you have in your mind to be so utterly incredible that you cannot even speak about it comparing it to being abducted by aliens is fantasy. I don't doubt that you can demonstrate something, but it's not more than what John himself could, and what he did do in the videos is pretty standard as far as I am concerned. 

 

 

As nicely as possible, go fly a kite

 

I can't help you, no one in our group can help you.

 

Best wishes.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Ilovecoffee]

17 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

If you actually read my post, or any of my posts on the subject, you will not find any of these arguments. 

 

But you will find more or less the same words written by previous Western Mo Pai practitioners, mostly when they are cornered. 

 

You claim rationality, but obviously only to the degree of someone joining your practice group, which by decree is what a rational person would decide to do. 

 

On the positive side,  this thread lives on. 

 

If that is what you think, more power to you.

 

Best wishes.

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Ilovecoffee]

6 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

 

Surely you must wonder the same thing. All the supposed power, where does it go when the time comes to demonstrate. I am not having a dig at you at all in saying this. This was more a question that I am hoping you will ask yourself.

 

All the fantasy writing in the Magus of Java about masters of old, and what was demonstrated? Emitting an electric current, emitting heat and a knife moving while balanced carefully. All the things things, bar the knife are truly incredible things to imagine a person can do it, but not exactly trees shattering and entire villages being slaughtered now is it. 

 

You forget that mo pai is not unique, and there are many others though hidden who have the same training and who have students. I am not trolling, I as you once (maybe not entirely exactly as you but slight similarities) believed they could be possible. Reality is never as good as the dream. 

 

Small Dream,

 

As politely as I can,  believe whatever you wish to believe.

 

I am not going to argue with you further.

 

Best wishes.

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Ilovecoffee]

Just now, 小梦想 said:

I really am not arguing at all. I am trying and seemingly failing to have a pleasant "normal" conversation with you. 

 

I left what you guys can do behind and am talking in general about the Magus of Java and the video demonstration. I 100% believe it was all real, but still a mile away from what is written in the books. 

I am asking you opinion on why you think the difference is so big. What people, not just mo pai, write about (The books and not your group), and what they can then demonstrate is miles apart. Surely this is asking your opinion on something which isn't meant to debunk nor is it having a go at your group. It is a question I have wondered about many times and would love to hear your opinion on it. 

 

Small Dream,

 

Whatever it is argument or discussion it is over.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Mudfoot]

I can air two thoughts :

 

1) If the reason for posting here is to attract like-minded, not answering any question and avoiding giving any information at all,  who will that attract? 

 

Maybe the masters of old practiced harder, thus being able to to more things.

 

On more recent notes, James McNeil claims that he saw one of his teachers levitate. Damo Mitchell claims he saw a dude partially dissolve. About once a decade, a tibetan sheds his body and attain the rainbow body. And Wang Liping can go through walls. 

 

And I can get my trousers on without getting it wrong. 

Miracles happens. 

[TheDustAutumn]

Although I believe The Magus Of Java is somewhat warped by Kosta as far as abilities go I personally don't think it's that far from the truth. Liping supposedly had neikung blasts in his teenage years and his master could levitate and become invisible(and to be fair, from my experience at his seminar I really don't believe that the man lies or that he lacks the juice). Modern masters have been documented that they can see through solid objects, set thing on fire from a distance, generate fileds of strong pressure over entire rooms of people and so on. Who knows what just a slightly different approach to training does or how much can taking external dan, for example, boosted the abilities of olden masters when compared to modern masters. Maybe some knowledge was lost in between generations. Not to mention that those masters of old spend most of their time training in isolation (Liao's master lived on an island, no?)while modern masters even if powerful usually have a wife, kids, a job, they heal people around them and maybe just don't care that much about raw power. Overall these discussions about possible abilities is pointless. The only real way to be sure is either to find a level 52 mopai master(or longmen pai or whatever pai) that is willing to demonstrate or just walk the walk yourself. Many times reality is more strange than our craziest imagination

Edited July 8, 2017 by TheDustAutumn

[blue eyed snake]

7 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

I entered this forum precisely because of the openness of its members. Your logic there is that you presume everyone is going to automatically be unpleasant and skeptical. While it is okay to have healthy cynicism, going to the extremes of doubting and assuming all others will dismiss (and acting the same way in response to all non Western Mo Pai) isn't a very healthy way of relating to people, and it is boggling you would come here to say, "Hey, I have these unbelievable things I experienced!" and expecting us to jump on so quickly, but when we ask what and how, we are met with, "Oh, I'm not telling you". 

 

Look at several practices here: Flying Phoenix, Spring Forest, and many, many other practices that people thoroughly enjoy. Are they met with skeptics? Of course. But this doesn't diminish the experience of the people who do benefit from them, of which there are many. 

 

The point I raise is that yes, you can meet skeptics and uncouth individuals when sharing openly. But you also meet receptive people--which I find odd because that seems to be what you claim to want for your recruitment: to look for other seekers who follow your cabal. 

 

I suppose this shall fall upon deaf ears, and I reckon you will characterize us the same way for being unwilling to take Western Mo Pai seriously. So I shall simply wish you well, because this, as my fellow netizens above have concluded, is an argument that has been beaten to death and much has been said without much actually being talked about. 

 

nice,

 

the reason i came into this forum is likewise. People from (sometimes wildly) different backgrounds writing about their experiences. It made clear to me that the things my teacher is able to do are not so strange as I thought when I started out, which was very nice. Now it's worth ( apart from socializing with like-minded people) is that things I have experienced are written about by other people who experienced same things. In the same vein giving me a look into what may (or may not) follow.

 

 

[allinone]

read the book and see where the emphasis is. Its not about one spiritual experience but they define realities and how they fit together, there is consistency with the knowledge spoken.

 

To me even if its not real, it doesn't matter, its like a scfi cartoon exactly with a note i like.

[Ilovecoffee]

6 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

I can air two thoughts :

 

1) If the reason for posting here is to attract like-minded, not answering any question and avoiding giving any information at all,  who will that attract? 

 

Maybe the masters of old practiced harder, thus being able to to more things.

 

On more recent notes, James McNeil claims that he saw one of his teachers levitate. Damo Mitchell claims he saw a dude partially dissolve. About once a decade, a tibetan sheds his body and attain the rainbow body. And Wang Liping can go through walls. 

 

And I can get my trousers on without getting it wrong. 

Miracles happens. 

 

The problem is Mudfoot is that you would be willing to accept people's claims like James McNeil and Damo Mitchell, without objective evidence with scientists and medical doctors to rule out fraud and we would not be willing to accept their claims, only objective evidence itself.

 

To answer your question, for the people we are looking for at least, the objective evidence will stand by itself without anyone's personal testimony, and they would be to come see for themselves as a result, if they don't meet this criteria we aren't interested in them.

 

Best wishes.

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Ilovecoffee]

2 hours ago, allinone said:

read the book and see where the emphasis is. Its not about one spiritual experience but they define realities and how they fit together, there is consistency with the knowledge spoken.

 

To me even if its not real, it doesn't matter, its like a scfi cartoon exactly with a note i like.

 

 

Well at least you are honest at least with yourself, which is more than can be said for most people. 

 

Really if that is what you want and enjoy, more power to you.

 

Best wishes.