Long men pai nei gong and mo pai

[Wu Ming Jen]

Long men pai nei gong and mo pai...... funny title.

 

One pai  can be deliciously savored and provide all health benefits and enjoyment necessary, the other pie in the face is just funny.

 

It's kind of like a bad satire movie. You know the movie is bad but we keep watching for "what will happen next", "It can't get any worse". but it does.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mudfoot]

3 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

 

 

It's kind of like a bad satire movie. You know the movie is bad but we keep watching for "what will happen next", "It can't get any worse". but it does.

 

 

 

 

 

Drews why taobum posters are idiots thread is actually worse. 

By miles. 

That is because ilovecoffe is stable and rational, in that thread those qualities are missing. 

[Ilovecoffee]

17 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

First generation WMP: We are following scientific evidence, the rest of you are practicing level zero dead-end practices. 

 

Second generation WMP poster speak about "Objective evidence". 

 

Around generation four, I predict that the term is"documentary". 

 

And you guys will just be another fringe New Age group, cut of from lineage and tradition. 

 

Mudfoot,  no if anything we will die out, we work hard to weed out newagers.

 

 

 

[Ilovecoffee]

13 hours ago, Chang said:

 

Does this not set the alarm bells ringing and suggest to you that you are in fact unreasonable, irrational and not in the least down to earth?

 

No.  Just because millions of people believe something is true, doesn't make it so. 

 

We do our best to firmly ground our beliefs in the best objective evidence we have, and in our own direct observation. 

 

 

[Ilovecoffee]

12 hours ago, steve said:

 

I feel no hatred or anger for you or any of the More Pie people, more like disbelief and sympathy...

 

I suspect one thing that bothers people is your efforts to recruit people to practice a system that is a dead end.

That is quite unfair to others not to mention yourself.

 

You know, without question, that you only have access to a very small fraction of the training system and no guidance of an accomplished master to help navigate the subtle and occasionally hazardous paths of energy work.

You know there is no possibility of ever receiving intermediate or advanced teachings beyond the 2nd step of 72...

Yet you hope somehow these more advanced teachings will magically appear someday, otherwise all of your efforts are for naught, and you say you take nothing on faith.

 

And you want others to buy in to this dead end along with you, eschewing other opportunities to enrich their lives with other methods of training because they don't have a videotape of an ohmmeter registering electricity. Meanwhile many of these other methods have actual scientific research to support their efficacy and you do not.

And you call this reasonable, rational, and down to earth?

 

I call it delusional.

 

 

If that is how you see it, so be it. 

 

I would rather have just the first few levels of something we have objective evidence for, than a complete system we cannot verify.

 

 

[Kar3n]

4 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

If that is how you see it, so be it. 

 

I would rather have just the first few levels of something we have objective evidence for, than a complete system we cannot verify.

 

 

Isn't the evidence produced by doing and verified by the teachings and master of the lineage?

[Ilovecoffee]

Just now, Kar3n said:

Isn't the evidence produced by doing and verified by the teachings and master of the lineage?

 

We want objective evidence, with scientists present to rule out fraud before we invest in a practice.

 

If you don't feel that is necessary, then I guess you feel differently than we do. 

 

 

[Kar3n]

7 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

We want objective evidence, with scientists present to rule out fraud before we invest in a practice.

 

If you don't feel that is necessary, then I guess you feel differently than we do. 

 

 

Ok, same old pre-recorded message.

 

Thanks for the engaging and intellectual conversation.

[Ilovecoffee]

2 minutes ago, Kar3n said:

Ok, same old pre-recorded message.

 

Thanks for the engaging and intellectual conversation.

 

We do actually have rich, engaging discussions in an environment that allows for it,  here that just isn't possible.

[Kar3n]

4 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

We do actually have rich, engaging discussions in an environment that allows for it,  here that just isn't possible.

There have been many bums who have tried to engage you. You came here with some sort of preconceived notion. Why did you come here at all?

 

Your rhetoric is akin to saying, " Hey kids come practice MoPai so you can light up LEDs, knock the bottom out of Coke bottles and drive a chopstick through a table."  That's deep..

 

Once upon a time, I had a genuine interest in Mo Pai. It was circular conversations like this one that turned me off completely. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm really not interested in practicing something that its practitioners are not enthusiastic enough to even have a rational conversation about it, but instead offers some video.

 

Oh well...

 

Have a good one.

[Ilovecoffee]

23 minutes ago, Kar3n said:

There have been many bums who have tried to engage you. You came here with some sort of preconceived notion. Why did you come here at all?

 

Your rhetoric is akin to saying, " Hey kids come practice MoPai so you can light up LEDs, knock the bottom out of Coke bottles and drive a chopstick through a table."  That's deep..

 

Once upon a time, I had a genuine interest in Mo Pai. It was circular conversations like this one that turned me off completely. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm really not interested in practicing something that its practitioners are not enthusiastic enough to even have a rational conversation about it, but instead offers some video.

 

Oh well...

 

Have a good one.

 

Unfortunately we can't talk about our experiences here, not because we don't want to but because we can't.

 

All we can do is present the evidence we do have, and tell people to come see for themselves.

 

 

[Kar3n]

4 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

Unfortunately we can't talk about our experiences here, not because we don't want to but because we can't.

 

All we can do is present the evidence we do have, and tell people to come see for themselves.

 

 

You're starting to sound a lot like Charlie Brown's teacher...

 

[Sudhamma]

I appreciate Iilovecoffee's remarks that he can't talk of their experiences in an open forum like here. Perhaps he and his brothers-and-sisters in MP have taken an oath of secrecy or humility, so please don't challenge/pressure them to open up on their "experiences". The next best alternative is for anyone interested in MP to join them in the practice and see for themselves whether it is genuine or fake teachings. But then again, one must know how to discern what is "true" Daoist nei-gong practices and that definitely depends upon the background of the student. It is often said that "The thousands of teachings will return to the Origin", M'an Fa Kwei Chung. Whether one after practicing MO-neigong will emit static electricity or start a fire has nothing to do in attaining the Dao which is the ultimate objective for Daoist practices like MO and LMP. Therefore, if one takes the complete daoist system be it MO or LMP, the neigong practice is the conduit to being an immortal the physical and spiritual transformation from attaining the dao, not an arsonist. The ability to emit static electricity is only one of the attainments in the practice, but not the primary objective. You don't want to spend years in the practice just to light up fire with your bare hands... use a lighter or a box of matches instead will save you a lot of your time on earth. If what you are practicing cannot give you the nei-qi to light up fires, it does not mean that your system is inferior or fake. Many renowned masters of neijia martial arts could not do it either. As said, being a fire-starter is not the ultimate objective of dao attainment. That's my view after these many pages.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Sudhamma

[silent thunder]

17 hours ago, Marblehead said:

No alarm bells, no jingle bells, no wedding bells.  Nothing but silence.

 

 

I had no mistress, until she saturated me.

 

Now I have no other.  Beyond words... beyond perception. 

 

inutterable, gossamer, expansive, saturating, ever-pregnant and empty.

 

utterly complete and more... real she is.

[Wells]

6 hours ago, Sudhamma said:

The ability to emit static electricity is only one of the attainments in the practice, but not the primary objective.

 

I highly assume that it is not static electricity (electrons) but rather electromagnetic waves (photons), in JC's case setting a newspaper on fire or Jiang Feng setting wood on fire, electromagnetic waves which have a similar intensity, frequency and focus to microwaves.

Electromagnetic waves are likely the stuff of your consciousness, therefore such a feat gives a hint to the significant cultivation of consciousness the practitioner has achieved. When a person is not able to do such a feat, I therefore doubt that he has achieved a major step in development towards immortality of his consciousness.

[Sudhamma]

Yes, Wells, each of us has different level of cultivation and thank you for that electromagnetic waves. Like for me for instance, though I've been practicing  (psuedo?) Daoist qigong, I know near to nothing about Daoist cultivation. I am a Buddhist but hope to improve my Daoist qigong by reading up on daoist practices and I did find some very good information here in TDB. However, my interest in this forum was initially triggered by JC who said that Yin energy had to be brought into the LDT, and when meeting with Yang energy would cause an 'explosion' which then cause the emission of that awesome power. However, no where could I find an answer as to how these energies are identified during a qigong practice as such unless, as earth represents yin, then the energy that travels up through the legs from the ground is Yin. Vice versa, the energy tapped from the heavens entering the crown of the head is therefore, Yang. Therefore are these the energies that MO practitioners referred to?

[Wells]

In MP level 1 training, yang chi from heaven is absorbed into tantien through the crown point, yin chi from earth is absorbed through the perineum (huyin) and stored in the perineum. In MP level 4, the stored yin energy and the stored yang energy are fused into the tantien.

[Wells]

As you say that you are buddhist and interested in a MP like development, you possibly want to look into gtumo (tummo) meditation, which according to Kosta Danaos works similar to MP, but combines yin and yang energies right from the start.

The only source which seems legit to me about learning tummo meditation is the book "Bliss of Inner Fire".

https://www.amazon.com/Bliss-Inner-Fire-Practice-Naropa/dp/086171136X/

 

[Sudhamma]

Thank you so much Wells, at least I've now a confirmation, and the only other thing is the 'storing of the yin energy' in huiyin. My interest in this is that my wuji-stance brings in these 2 energies, but a weaker yin perhaps as it is brought in via the yongchuan, bottom point at the base of the feet.

[Wells]

P.S.: And you should possibly make sure to perform tummo with your butt / perineum in contact to earth ("grounded perineum") to allow a good yin chi absorption...

[Wells]

10 minutes ago, Sudhamma said:

Thank you so much Wells, at least I've now a confirmation, and the only other thing is the 'storing of the yin energy' in huiyin. My interest in this is that my wuji-stance brings in these 2 energies, but a weaker yin perhaps as it is brought in via the yongchuan, bottom point at the base of the feet.

 

In my personal opinion it is possible to absorb yin chi in standing meditation through your feet as long as your feet are "grounded" (standing on earth in the garden for example and not wearing shoes with rubber soles!), but there is no confirmation by JC in the MP literature about this assumption of mine.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Wells

[Sudhamma]

You are right, though the yin may be slightly weaker, but with the slight tightening of the anal muscles during the intake may project the energy better (than static sitting) into the huiyin. That's how I do it.

[Sudhamma]

... from huiyin into LDT, without the storing phase. 

[Wells]

One should possibly ask about that that Tai Chi Nei Kung master in Beijing who is according to JC on a similar level as he is and who was doing standing Tai Chi forms in a park in front of JC's students...and then blasted a big boulder into two parts with a blast of his internal power from several feet away (source: The Magus of Java by Kosta Danaos).

Edited July 25, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

58 minutes ago, Sudhamma said:

with the slight tightening of the anal muscles

 

That technique (contraction of anal & sphincter muscles) defenitly works and is legit.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Wells