the importance of the neck

[laotse]

hi

 

the last time i was thinking about the importance of the neck in the body.

 

there are several guys who identified the neck as one of the major causes of health problemes, i think, especially in europe.

 

therapies like atlasprofilax (and thats only one of many, like atlas therapy after arlen, ... ) developed in europe which claim to adjust the atlas to the right position for the rest of your life. (i dont believe it, but who knows....)

 

hey there were also guys in usa who seem to be really familiar with chiropractic, but especially about this topic about the neck i found nothing as profound as kuklinski in germany.

 

kuklinski is a guy who claim that a lot of chronical diseases are caused by a traumatic event to the cervical spine. doesent matter what kind of accident somebody had (like falling from a horse, a batch to the head; every accident goes to the weakest part of the body, the neck) the effect is an instability of the neck, which leads to problemes you never would identifiy with the neck. (attention: i only tell you theories of kuklinski!)

the process he's explaining is really profound, i can't tell it all around (here are 2 german sources:

http://www.amazon.de/Schwachstelle-Genick-...4578&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.de/Das-HWS-Trauma-Ursach...578&sr=8-2)

 

the main theory is, that an instability of the neck, maybe caused by a simple accident, creates many symptomes you never assumed that they are realeted to the neck. his therapy suggestions are mainly strenghening of the neck, correction of the spine (like dorn therapy, osteopathy, and stuff like that) and vitamine therapy (mitochondrial medicine) (a main part of his therapy is, that he claims, that neck instability causes the production of NO (nitric oxide) (...which is treatable with a program of supplements, where he have a rigorously plan.)

 

one of his main discoveries is, that vitamin b12 stop the production of NO, which is mainly caused by neck instability as he claims).

the plan of him is that you start one week with vit. b12, then one week minerals (trace elements and electrolytes like k, mg, zn, se, fe), then vitamines (b group, e, c, d, k), then omega 3 acids, then coenzym q10..... (the important part he claims is, that you take the vitamins in that order, because some of the vitamines need others to absorb themselves.)

 

whatever, i think stabilisation of the neck can also play an important role in taoist meditation or meditation at all. approximately the neck is one of parts of the body taoists speaking about the 3 gates. (mco and that stuff)

 

if you take supplements or not (kuklinskis's theory is really profound), doesnt matter, but stabilitstation of the neck may make a difference in your meditation practise, especially when you stay long time before a computer.... (also when you don't meditate :-)

 

i tried it out and it felt like opening up the nervous system. it seemed to be the missing part of the energetic integrity (maybe i discovered my weakness....), but since i did the exercises i'll present (btw...also exercises like the contraction of the pelvic floor, which creates an upward flow of chi through the spine got more naturally and freely), it seemed to open up my energetic system fully. so the neck seem to be a part of the body lot of people seem to have problemes with, so its worthwhile to look at it.

 

a really good start point you can make, is, to start stabilising your neck (also when you're doing neck mobility exerises like scott sonnon's ---- neck mobility is only possible with neck stability and strenght!!! and by the way, i find scott sonnons exercises maybe a little bit stressy for the neck, but thats only my opinion : http://www.chiropraktik.ch/Deutsch/Gym/GefHalswUeb.cfm

this website shows exercises which are maybe contraproductive to your neck)

 

good exercises to stabilise the neck are the following:

 

http://www.kiessecker.org/index.php/Nacken%C3%BCbungen

 

 

http://www.dorn-method.com/index_files/Sel...lfeUebungen.htm

 

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http...ficial%26sa%3DN

 

 

but there are lots of isometric (and others) exercises to find in the www.....another really important one is retraction (thats the movement when you make a double chin and go to the back...hold it for 5-10 secounds and then release......)

 

when you do that kind of exercises (mind my words: the neck is maybe the most instabile part of the body!) you will annul the process of creating NO and other chemical by-products which are created by an instabile neck.

 

another problem lots of people have is a contraction of the short muscles of the neck like showed here:

http://www.chiropraktik.ch/Deutsch/Themen/TdM_Apr98.cfm

 

in american websites a probleme which is also really often mentioned is the loss of the cervical curve, really interesting indeed.

 

lots of products are on the us-marked to remove a loss of cervical curve like that:

 

http://chiropracticmassagesuperstore.com/t...tion_device.htm

 

or cheap chinese products, which also relax the deep short neck muscles like:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...:EOIBSA:US:1123

 

or products like that:

 

http://www.posturepump.com/

 

http://www.neckandheadacherelief.com/conte...ache-relief.asp

 

like i said, maybe the neck is my main problematic part....but i dont seem to be an exeption....

 

there are even more products out there to maintain the cervical curve or strech the neck, but the most important part, in my opinion is, to stabilise the neck with exercises! (attention: loss of neck curve may also come from other parts of the spine....so muscular stabilisation of the abs and the back also can be benefitual (maybe pilates or something like that....) and contribute to the stabilistation of the neck....

 

i did good experiences with it, maybe you want to contribute something to that topic....

 

feel free to....

 

cheers

 

lao

[joeblast]

what's wrong with nitric oxide? that is a vascularity enhancer, right? why would that be bad?

Edited January 1, 2008 by joeblast

[Gerard]

IMO more important than the neck is the abdominal region. Tension in there and it affects the entire body, and not only that the energy balance of the internal organs.

 

That makes Chi Nei Tsang the most important Taoist health maintenance practice.

 

Good luck.

[Eric23]

I've been dealing with neck and abdominal tightness for most of my adult life. Sports injuries in school and auto accidents haven't done my neck or back any good at all. General stress of being married with children and living the American dream got my belly screwed into a nice tight knot. My experience is that they're both important and getting them unblocked and loosened up are vital to relaxation. Used to see a chiropractor (US) about once a month years ago. I stopped playing tennis when it just simply wasn't fun anymore, and my back and neck immediately started to heal. Getting serious with yin yoga has opened up my shoulders which in turn helped my neck. Just recently got acquainted with Chi Nei Tsang through the Unwinding the Belly book, and it is paying nice dividends.

 

Later edit: Picked up one of the memory foam contoured pillows several years ago, big help for the neck,

Edited January 2, 2008 by Eric23

[thaddeus]

what's wrong with nitric oxide? that is a vascularity enhancer, right? why would that be bad?

There are different types of Nitric Oxide. There's the type that relaxes arteries and increases blood flow and there's another type involved with the inflammatory process. I'm not a biochemist, but I was interested in this and did a bit of reading on it. I found out there were different types or processes of NO when I tried to understand some of the contradictions I was reading about. It's a very complicated subject. It seems when NO is present there is a bit of inflammation going on, so in some respects it's a bad thing.

I also think if you're taking substances to increase NO production, whether for sport performance, meditation, relaxation etc, it's important to take antioxidants too. At least until someone can explain all this better so it's understandable.

T

[Christoph]

proper neck alignment and posture begins at the feet

[laotse]

what's wrong with nitric oxide? that is a vascularity enhancer, right? why would that be bad?

 

its a really complex topic, i dont know that much about it, but some points what NO does:

 

the normal functions of NO in the body are for example: it lowers the blood pressure through vessel dilatation. --> relieves the heart

 

NO in the immune cells is part of the imune system and kills bacteriums and parasites and so on.

 

NO in nerve cells plays a role as neurotransmitter in the brain.

 

NO in mitochondria regulates the oxigen consumption in the cell.

 

 

when you have a continuous inflamation (which you have, if you believe kuklinski, when you have an instability of the neck) than there is too much NO in the body.

 

if you have permanently too much NO in the body the body doesnt produce new NO for the processes i described above, because the body think, there is still enough. for example the inflamation NO disables the production of NO for the vessels. in the worst case that can cause a cardiac infarction.

also NO leads to an increase of cholesterin, which contributes to the process...

 

too much NO creates Citrullin, which needs to break down, but as it is too much it connects with proteins especially in the joints....the rest you can imagine....

 

through another complicated chemical process it disturbs the metabolism of the thyroid.

 

and an important point in his therory is that too much NO leads to mitochondropathy, where the mitochondria are damaged or destroyed, so that the energy production cant take place.

 

 

 

and logical, the neck is not the only important part of the body....a strong back and abdomen contribute to a proper alignment of the neck and a good stucture in general as well, i said this.

 

i only mentioned that the neck maybe is the weakest part of the body, easy to harm also through relatively harmless accidents and for me it made a difference to strenghten the neck (and i also did strenghtening exercises for other body parts, like situps, pilates moves and so on before....)

 

 

iam wondering if somebody here tried out devices like i mentioned to restore a normal neck curve....does that make sense??

 

regards

lao

Edited January 2, 2008 by laotse

[Ian]

One useful neck exercise is to hold a wine cork between your teeth. Length ways.

It's sort of a jaw exercise, but it's all connected.

Start with a white wine cork and work up to red.

Best to do in shower, as you do drool.

[laotse]

One useful neck exercise is to hold a wine cork between your teeth. Length ways.

It's sort of a jaw exercise, but it's all connected.

Start with a white wine cork and work up to red.

Best to do in shower, as you do drool.

 

whats the difference between a white and red wine cork? :-)

[Ian]

whats the difference between a white and red wine cork? :-)

Red is longer, apparently!

[laotse]

Red is longer, apparently!

 

i've never seen that, at least not in germany.... but, ok.

thank you

Edited January 3, 2008 by laotse

[林愛偉]

proper neck alignment and posture begins at the feet

 

 

[90_1494798740]

Yes, proper alignment is always important : Tongzi Gong

[mYTHmAKER]

Intu-flow has some pretty good neck movements

for oiling and freeing.

[Trunk]

i tried it out and it felt like opening up the nervous system. it seemed to be the missing part of the energetic integrity (maybe i discovered my weakness....), but since i did the exercises i'll present (btw...also exercises like the contraction of the pelvic floor, which creates an upward flow of chi through the spine got more naturally and freely), it seemed to open up my energetic system fully. so the neck seem to be a part of the body lot of people seem to have problemes with, so its worthwhile to look at it.

In every system the neck is recognized in some way ... as a tricky area / a "gate" / a tendency for "psychic knot" / special relationship with sexual energy, lower center. Interesting topic.

 

stabilising your neck (also when you're doing neck mobility exerises like scott sonnon's ---- neck mobility is only possible with neck stability and strenght!!! and by the way, i find scott sonnons exercises maybe a little bit stressy for the neck, but thats only my opinion

 

http://www.kiessecker.org/index.php/Nacken%C3%BCbungen

 

I've been playing with the isometrics, and like them. I find that I can also do repetitions of the isometrics. That is, press on the hand/s for a count of 5, relax, then again for a count of 5. Three reps each of the four positions. I like it, feels good.

 

I think it's a really interesting point that Sonnon's approach works pretty much exclusively on neck mobility, and neglects strength. At the very least it seems that they should be balanced.

 

And that perhaps Sonnon's neck movements are too extreme for most people. I don't have enough experience to really have a grasp of this area... but it seems at least if someone has some latent neck instability that Sonnon's could push it over the edge, and that strengthening would be a good element to include with maybe some much more modest neck mobility work...

 

Curious if others have more to say about their experience...

(Where's a chiropractor tao-bum when you need one?)

[Toni]

The neck and head alignment is key as emphasized by Alexander technique snd Feldenkrais. But it is difficult to do, u need good propioception

[daojones]

I've actually been amazed this topic hasnt been discussed much here.

The neck is majorly important because its:

-connected to the craniofacial system and that is connected to a ton of nerves going through very very tight spaces.
-the upper cervical spine supports vital autonomic function. If your atlas and upper cervical spine are messed up it will compress important things like the brain stem and vagus nerve. This will F you up!



The reason inflammation is associated with neck instability is likely because of the vagus nerve being compressed. This nerve innervates a ton of stuff from your head down to near your pelvis, including a bunch of organs and breathing accessories. It is primarily responsible for putting you into a parasympathetic state. If it is compressed your body will tend to be in a sympathetic state. You can look up the various scientific reasons why the vagus nerve will put your body into an inflammatory state, but this is a good start.

And there are many reasons why the cervical spine/atlas get messed up, but a major one many people don't know about is because of dentistry. The mandible needs to be in biocompatible position because the mandible is actually an extension of the spine. If you look at how vertebrae have a tripod structure, you will see that c-0 and c-1 do not have this tripod structure. And that is because those 2 vertebrae are needed for rotating and supporting the skull. So the body uses the mandible as the 3rd part of the tripod for those 2 vertebrae to complete the tripod structure that was missing. If you start to view the situation in terms of gravity, dao, and wu wei it will be easy to see how the body is trying to efficiently deal with the issue of keeping the head upright in the most energy efficient way possible. When an idiot dentist messes with your teeth or your jaw they basically just throw a spanner in the efficient equation your body is trying to work out. The result is compensation and long term inefficiencies in your body as it tries to compensate, and this can result in many issues including compressing nerves and brain! Including, the ones I'm talking about, which are some major ones to watch out for.

So when you feel qi flowing better after fixing your neck, there are really good reasons for that. Another one I didn't go into is fascia...if somebody is interested why lemme know and I'll drop another rant.

[Toni]

7 hours ago, daojones said:

I've actually been amazed this topic hasnt been discussed much here.

The neck is majorly important because its:

-connected to the craniofacial system and that is connected to a ton of nerves going through very very tight spaces.
-the upper cervical spine supports vital autonomic function. If your atlas and upper cervical spine are messed up it will compress important things like the brain stem and vagus nerve. This will F you up!



The reason inflammation is associated with neck instability is likely because of the vagus nerve being compressed. This nerve innervates a ton of stuff from your head down to near your pelvis, including a bunch of organs and breathing accessories. It is primarily responsible for putting you into a parasympathetic state. If it is compressed your body will tend to be in a sympathetic state. You can look up the various scientific reasons why the vagus nerve will put your body into an inflammatory state, but this is a good start.

And there are many reasons why the cervical spine/atlas get messed up, but a major one many people don't know about is because of dentistry. The mandible needs to be in biocompatible position because the mandible is actually an extension of the spine. If you look at how vertebrae have a tripod structure, you will see that c-0 and c-1 do not have this tripod structure. And that is because those 2 vertebrae are needed for rotating and supporting the skull. So the body uses the mandible as the 3rd part of the tripod for those 2 vertebrae to complete the tripod structure that was missing. If you start to view the situation in terms of gravity, dao, and wu wei it will be easy to see how the body is trying to efficiently deal with the issue of keeping the head upright in the most energy efficient way possible. When an idiot dentist messes with your teeth or your jaw they basically just throw a spanner in the efficient equation your body is trying to work out. The result is compensation and long term inefficiencies in your body as it tries to compensate, and this can result in many issues including compressing nerves and brain! Including, the ones I'm talking about, which are some major ones to watch out for.

So when you feel qi flowing better after fixing your neck, there are really good reasons for that. Another one I didn't go into is fascia...if somebody is interested why lemme know and I'll drop another rant.

Interesting, it seems u understand this well. But what to do if our cervicals are misaligned so we are fucked up? How to fix this ?

[daojones]

@Toni

 

I grabbed this from YJ Care Clinic a korean dentist that deals with such issues. He doesnt believe c-0 and c1 are the major issues, but rather c2. I think below is generally useful info.

Check out NUCCA chiropractor as they do xrays on your spine to give you an idea as to whats going on. The dental side of things is more of a mess to deal with, and its difficult to make any recommendations.

The meaning of facial asymmetry

The meaning of facial asymmetry is as follows:

* One with facial asymmetry must have a C2 subluxation proportional to it.

* One with facial asymmetry must have an imbalance of the TMJ proportional to it.

* One with imbalance TMJ must have a C2 subluxation proportional to it.

Conclusions : Triangular relationship between facial asymmetry, C2 subluxation, and TMJ imbalance

Therefore, the following conclusions can be drawn:

* One with facial asymmetry must have an imbalance in the TMJ, and one with an imbalance in the TMJ must have C2 subluxation.

* By balancing the imbalance of the TMJ, facial asymmetry is restored and C2 is restored (aligned) to its normal position.

* Therefore, in case of facial asymmetry, the more C2 is aligned to its normal position, the more changes will occur that will make the face more symmetrical.

* Facial asymmetry recovery is an incidental result obtained by the balance of the TMJ as the C2 is aligned.

* People with C2 subluxation must have problems with their nervous system or spine. In other words, they have various spinal disc diseases due to problems such as neurological disorders, straight neck, hypolordosis, kyphosis, scoliosis, hyper lordosis, and pelvic torsion.

* In order to solve spinal and neurological problems, C2 must be aligned to its normal position. In order to align C2, the TMJ must be balanced.

* The alignment of C2 cannot be achieved without the balance of the TMJ. The normal recovery of the nervous system or spine is not possible unless C2 is aligned. Even if recovery is taken place, it is only temporary.

[johndoe2012]

Just sitting or just (wuji) standing releases pressure on the heart, the vagus nerve and hence the neck. 

[Mark Foote]

I find the “turtle-nose snake” case in the “Blue Cliff Record” helpful in feeling my jaw and skull in the balance of the body. Ch’an teacher Yuanwu offered the case (I’ll include only the first line):

 

‘Hsueh Feng taught the assembly saying, “On South Mountain there’s a turtle-nosed snake. All of you people must take a good look.”’

 

(Yuanwu’s commentary) … When Hsueh Feng speaks this way, ‘On South Mountain there’s a turtle-nosed snake’, tell me, where is it?

 

My late teacher Wu Tsu said, “With this turtle-nosed snake, you must have the ability not to get your hands or legs bitten. Hold him tight by the back of the neck with one quick grab. Then you can join hands and walk along with me.”

 

(“The Blue Cliff Record”, translated by and © 1977 Thomas Cleary and J. C. Cleary; “Twenty-second Case: Hsueh Feng’s Turtle-Nosed Snake”, Shambala p 144.)

 

 

The nose that came to mind when I read the case was a sea turtle’s nose—basically a pair of holes in a skull.

 

I find that awareness of the air moving through the holes in the skull behind the nose contributes both the dynamic of inhalation or exhalation and the balance of the head to the location of the center of balance.

 

Wu Tsu’s “join hands and walk with me”, I take to be a reference to an interaction between the placement of the arms and legs and the center of balance.  Regarding “one quick grab”, I can only say I’m bound to be bitten by Wu Tsu, if I take his advice to mean there’s something I should do.  It’s about realizing a cessation of “doing”, but I think I might run into him, in the stretch of ligaments. 

 

(Post: Common Ground)

 

 

[Thrice Daily]

Very interesting. Here is some more food for thought. I remember once being told. We are setup in our visual system to focus on the horizon as level. 

 

Therefore if there are inconsistencies left or right anywhere from neck that tilts the head down on one side, The body will auto correct so we are still viewing the horizon as level. 

 

I'm otherwords, problems in the neck will have a knock on effect through the rest of the chain too. 

 

I know most people will know that, still I just wanted to share the reason behind it. As I was told...

 

I love turtle and crane neck plus good spinal breathing . I must start doing again actually. I will do in tomorrow's practice time... Thanks Guys.

[Thrice Daily]

On 17/06/2020 at 1:41 AM, daojones said:

I've actually been amazed this topic hasnt been discussed much here.

The neck is majorly important because its:

-connected to the craniofacial system and that is connected to a ton of nerves going through very very tight spaces.
-the upper cervical spine supports vital autonomic function. If your atlas and upper cervical spine are messed up it will compress important things like the brain stem and vagus nerve. This will F you up!



The reason inflammation is associated with neck instability is likely because of the vagus nerve being compressed. This nerve innervates a ton of stuff from your head down to near your pelvis, including a bunch of organs and breathing accessories. It is primarily responsible for putting you into a parasympathetic state. If it is compressed your body will tend to be in a sympathetic state. You can look up the various scientific reasons why the vagus nerve will put your body into an inflammatory state, but this is a good start.

And there are many reasons why the cervical spine/atlas get messed up, but a major one many people don't know about is because of dentistry. The mandible needs to be in biocompatible position because the mandible is actually an extension of the spine. If you look at how vertebrae have a tripod structure, you will see that c-0 and c-1 do not have this tripod structure. And that is because those 2 vertebrae are needed for rotating and supporting the skull. So the body uses the mandible as the 3rd part of the tripod for those 2 vertebrae to complete the tripod structure that was missing. If you start to view the situation in terms of gravity, dao, and wu wei it will be easy to see how the body is trying to efficiently deal with the issue of keeping the head upright in the most energy efficient way possible. When an idiot dentist messes with your teeth or your jaw they basically just throw a spanner in the efficient equation your body is trying to work out. The result is compensation and long term inefficiencies in your body as it tries to compensate, and this can result in many issues including compressing nerves and brain! Including, the ones I'm talking about, which are some major ones to watch out for.

So when you feel qi flowing better after fixing your neck, there are really good reasons for that. Another one I didn't go into is fascia...if somebody is interested why lemme know and I'll drop another rant.

I’d love to know more about the dental situation. 
I had two back teeth taken out on the top by a lazy dentist some 10 years ago. She was more interested in the holiday the next day than my teeth. 
 

My teeth look ok at the front. I’ve had a few out at sides and back though so my smile tends to be wry 

 

I enjoyed the tail end of the race scene in the 90’s and early 2000’s but my teeth did not.

 

Anyway getting off topic. Do you know anything specific about missing back teeth at the top and this interfering with neck? 
If you know more I’d love to know.Thankyou 

[daojones]

Back teeth as in molars? Any particular ones?

The teeth act as a secondary foundation for holding up your skull. The primary foundation is your upper cervical spine that connects to your atlas of course. When your bite gets messed up by an idiot dentist, then it can cause problems but it depends on the person. This is a system problem, and each person's system has strengths and weaknesses that will react differently.

You can check out iccmo.org, to find a dentist with training with neuromuscular splints. It's a crapshoot of people, and quality will vary greatly, but perhaps having a splint in could help.

Edit:

Seeing more of the comments on here. There is no replacement for having a bite that is biocompatible/functional with the rest of your body. No amount of qi gong will fix this (guess how I know). The stomatognathic system is crucial to function, and if it's messed up you're essentially handicapped to be sub-clinically messed up and you will not reach average level of performance. This just gets worse as you age and of course will vary between people. You may find yourself having a normal life in your 20s, and then shit gets way out of hand in your 30s.
 

Edited September 29 by daojones
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