Chinese Bones

[voidisyinyang]

Just now, Nungali said:

 

 

and you know that without ever listening to it  ... interesting !   

 

I've heard Tool before - sorry.

 

Not much of it since it is Western tuning - so no need to hear much.

 

Western logarithmic tuning is inherently limited.

 

Sure you can do a lot with the limitations.

 

So when I played piano - I studied an overview of all genres of music.

 

Then I also played all other genres of music in other bands.

 

Then I realized that Pythagorean tuning was the real truth.

 

That was high school.

 

So then - I played free jazz for a few years - as free improv with a street musician.

 

But I was listening to nonwestern music mainly live.

 

Then.... I researched the topic for my master's thesis.

 

It's called "sound-current nondualism and music theory and radical ecology."

 

That was still not the real truth.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

2 minutes ago, Nungali said:

You need some    meta morph  osis ;

 

 

 

 

 

Still Western tuning. I heard him live in high school I think.

 

I was into minimalism in high school - and so followed a local band named Zeitgeist.

 

But it's still Western tuning.

 

Did he change the piano tuning? I performed JOhn Cage in  my piano concert - prepared piano - so that was a gateway....

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

Quote

Y chromosomal lineages have a correlation with ethno-linguistic groups, but the correlation is imperfect. R1b and R1a seems correlated with Indo-European groups, but both these are found in high proportions in groups which are putatively mostly “pre-Indo-European” in origin (e.g., Basques, Sardinians, and South Indian tribals and non-Brahmin Dravidian speaking groups).

 

https://gnxp.nofe.me/2017/06/24/indian/

 

emphasis in original.

 

Quote

We still don’t know who the antecedents for the Indo-Aryans were. Probably they were a compound of different steppe groups, and also other populations which were mixed in (by analogy, in Europe it is obvious now that there was some mixture with the local European farmers and hunter-gatherers as Europeans expanded their frontier westward;

 

http://www.brownpundits.com/2017/06/20/indian-genetics-the-never-ending-argument/

 

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I am at this point somewhat fatigued by Indian population genetics. The real results are going to be ancient DNA, and I’m waiting on that. But people keep asking me about an article in Swarajya, Genetics Might Be Settling The Aryan Migration Debate, But Not How Left-Liberals Believ

e.

 

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Something happened 4-5,000 years ago. One could imagine simultaneous expansions in India and Central Asia/Eastern Europe. Or, one could imagine an expansion from a common ancestor around that time. The latter seems more parsimonious.

 

 

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it is not clear what was the extent of East Asian ancestry in Central Asian populations prior to these events.

Actually the historical and ancient DNA evidence both point to the fact that East Asian ancestry arrived in the last two thousand years. The spread of the first Gokturk Empire, and then the documented shift in the centuries around 1000 A.D. from Iranian to Turkic in what was Turan, signals the shift toward an East Asian genetic influx. Alexander the Great and other Greeks ventured into Central Asia. The people were described as Iranian looking (when Europeans encountered Turkic people like Khazars they did note their distinctive physical appearance).

 

We have ancient DNA from the Altai, and those individuals initially seemed overwhelmingly West Eurasian. Now that we have Scythian ancient DNA we see that they mixed with East Asians only on the far east of their range.

 

I'm quoting Rhazid Khan:

 

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R1a is too widespread to be explained by a simple Indo-Aryan migration in my opinion.

 

So Proto-Aryan takes a nose-dive.

 

Or "proto-Indo-Iranian"

 

 

Quote

 

Aryan marauders from the steppe came to India, yes they did!

Posted on April 20, 2017 by Razib Khan

 

 

https://gnxp.nofe.me/2017/04/20/aryan-marauders-from-the-steppe-came-to-india-yes-they-did/

 

So glad to see an Indian scientist spreading the truth!!

 

 

[Nungali]

Here we go !

 

Some more Indian 'truth '     ;  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Aryans

[Nungali]

 

Aurobindo's Aryan person

For Aurobindo, an "Aryan" was not a person who belonged to a particular race, but a person who "accepted a particular type of self-culture, of inward and outward practice, of ideality, of aspiration."

 

woop woop woop  ! 

 

I guess he wasnt some type of nationalist colonial racist  

 

 

Speaking of nationalist colonial racist .. I also recommend looking into something you dissed earlier ;  the 'cast system ' 

 

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/caste-system-created-by-british/story-0V783QPHGi5XzBB4yjdWuM.html

 

 

The original concept was  of specialized professions.    ( note, not originally ;caste ' ) The four main professional guilds of priests and learned (athravan), nobles and warriors (rathestaran), farmers (vasteryosan), and artisans (hutokhshan), with members of each profession working in freedom and dignity.

 

Farmers had their own land free from dispute. Also instituted was  the tradition of the wearing the sacred thread or belt as an mark that the wearer had been initiated into the guilds (see (Sad-dar - 'Hundred Doors' chapter 10, and chapter 39.18-19, Dadestan-i Denig - 'Religious Decisions'). 

The Hindu Vedas list four similar professions called varnas (from var, to enclose, cf. Av. vara meaning enclosure): the priests and learned (brahman), nobles and warriors (khshtriya), merchants and farmers (vaishyas), labourers and artisans (sudra).

 

Each varna has its own dharma or system and rules (also called laws) which included an initiation ceremony called the upanayana (meaning bringing within). 


The Hindu initiation ceremony like the Zoroastrian initiation ceremony is also called a thread ceremony. Hinduism calls the initiate a dvijas meaning twice born signifying that the initiate is "born again" into spiritual life. Zoroastrianism uses the term navjote meaning new life. The Hindu initiation is conducted during a person's teen or early adult years. The Zoroastrian age for initiation was the age or reason, deemed by tradition to be fifteen years of age. 
 

Significant in the separation of 'Indian' and 'Iranian'   ( from a previous joining )  traditions , variations in this guild system( and other things )  suggest different approaches to society and governance . One was sexaul equality . 

 

 The initiation ceremony in Hinduism is now limited to men of the first three castes, while the initiation ceremony in Zoroastrianism is available to all women and men. In Zoroastrianism, the initiation ceremony developed into an initiation into the faith and a coming-of-age ceremony for all Zoroastrians - rather than an initiation into a 'caste ' .

 

 

Priest graduation ceremony .

 

 The Mobed (member of a family of hereditary priests) Soroushpur, current chairman of the Council of Zoroastrian Priests, has  done research on ancient Zoroastrian documents and claimed to have found clear evidence of women clergy in ancient times before Muslim invasions.

[voidisyinyang]

Nungali - you need to read the links I posted.

 

The latest DNA analysis has caused a big upset in India.

 

The caste system clearly shows white skin preference for the Brahmin caste.

 

Aurobindo was Dravidian and the DNA evidence shows that West Asians have no South Indian affiliation.

 

This means it is possible that South Indians indeed are mainly African - paleolithic - as many look African.

 

But more likely it is that South Indians migrated from West Asia at a much older time period.

 

So there is new "ancient" DNA analysis that will resolve that question.

 

But in regards to the Aryan "invasion" of India - it mainly occurred around 1200 BCE and at that time a strict caste system with no inter marriage between castes was introduced.

 

Also you apparently like the "Indo-European" or Indo-Aryan" or whatever "culture" - but just as "Arya" means Noble - it is in contrast to slaves.

 

So this indicates a very hierarchical system using slavery - and nothing to be emulated.

Edited July 11, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[voidisyinyang]

Quote

It is also found at lower frequencies among the Uyghur of Xinjiang. This is not entirely surprising either. This region of the Tarim basin was connected to Kashmir across the Pamirs. The 4th century Buddhist monk from the Tarim basin city of Kucha, who was instrumental in the translation of texts into Chinese,  may have had a Kumārajīva, Kashmiri father.

https://gnxp.nofe.me/2017/04/20/aryan-marauders-from-the-steppe-came-to-india-yes-they-did/

 

Quote

And, there is good evidence that a subset of South Asians, skewed toward northwest and upper caste groups, share drift with steppe Yamna samples. But South Asians are often clearly composites of these exogenous populations and an indigenous component with affinities with Andaman Islanders,

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[voidisyinyang]

Quote

 I do not know of a single unambiguous citation from the earliest of the Vedic scripture (which predates the oldest Avestan Gathas by half a millennium, give or take a century) that uses the term Arya for family or tribe – e.g. like the Rg Veda talks about the Bharatas, Pakhtas, Bhalanas etc. The term Arya is squarely used to define a linguistic culture and knowledge of or adherence to a specific canonical tradition, not as a tribal ethnonym. So one speaks and behaves like an Arya, if one’s educated in Sanskrit speech (vAk) and adheres to the orthodox Vedic ritual (vrata). ...

 

Going by that definition, even the Persians and Greeks were non-Aryans for the Indians – and the Mahabharata epic (probably composed originally, as Jaya, sometime around 900 BCE, with later additions up to 3rd century BCE) says so very explicitly. It terms the pArasikAH (Persians), yavanAH (Ionians/Greeks), chInAH (Chinese) etc as barbarians irrespective of their skin-tone or “racial” classification.

http://www.brownpundits.com/2017/06/23/on-the-aryan-debate-the-linguistics-pov/

 

So much for the Graeco-Aryan Hypothesis. haha.

 

Proto-Aryan? Non-existent.

 

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The idea of noble Aryan invaders of the hoary past who brought civilization to barbarians clearly resonated with the 20th century Fascist regimes* too, who imbibed a half-arsed notion of Aryan-ness ... the Iranian Pahlaviyan Shahdom along with the Third Reich, who changed the name of the country to Iran in the 1930s (from Old Persian Airiyanam-khshathra lit. dominion of the Aryans).

and

 

 

Quote

 

Razib Khan says:

June 24, 2017 at 1:42 am

south indian brahmins are 3/4 like north indian brahmins and 1/4 like other south indians, in particular the non-dalit/tribals (i looked at their genes).

 

 

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Regarding IA superstrate in Mitanni there’s very little linguistic evidence to conclude much – some IA names in treaties and words used in horse-training manuals. I believe the current understanding (e.g. Witzel) that Indo-Aryans formed the older vanguard of a general southward (both SE and SW) migration of IIr culture. What we now identify as “Iranic” came a little later – the oldest attested Iranian variety (Avestan, an Eastern dialect) lags Vedic Sanskrit by around 5 centuries. Further Vedic seems more conservative in its IE-ness (grammar, syntax) compared to Avestan. So a direct West->East migration of IIr speakers is fairly unlikely.

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[Nungali]

32 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

Nungali - you need to read the links I posted.

 

The latest DNA analysis has caused a big upset in India.

 

The caste system clearly shows white skin preference for the Brahmin caste.

 

Aurobindo was Dravidian and the DNA evidence shows that West Asians have no South Indian affiliation.

 

This means it is possible that South Indians indeed are mainly African - paleolithic - as many look African.

 

But more likely it is that South Indians migrated from West Asia at a much older time period.

 

So there is new "ancient" DNA analysis that will resolve that question.

 

But in regards to the Aryan "invasion" of India - it mainly occurred around 1200 BCE and at that time a strict caste system with no inter marriage between castes was introduced.

 

Aryan "invasion" of India  is bunkum !  Where is the archaeology ?     

 

Here is some showing Harrapan evidence ,  in The  ancient Oxus area   ( supposedly a classic 'Aryan' area until they 'Invaded' the ' Dravidians '   (probably shipped lapis lazuli all the way to Egypt .)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortugai

 

 

32 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

Also you apparently like the "Indo-European" or Indo-Aryan" or whatever "culture" - but just as "Arya" means Noble - it is in contrast to slaves.

 

look deeper . 

 

 

32 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

So this indicates a very hierarchical system using slavery - and nothing to be emulated.

 

No slavery .  the opposite . One reason their 'societa model ' grew ... people liked it   rulers didnt . 

 

 So ... Close ... but no cigar .   I keep pointing out many 'types' , in this case a  P I I  type , that took two directions  ; one more libertarian and progressive , the other by rule of force . 

 

The division was between those that wanted to rule by force and power   and those that desired progressive societal change .

 

Eg.  The Vedic  'Soma' was  known as  Vedic drug , consumed for power in war      ( a concoction based on Ephedra   ...  'speed'   ) .  

The  Avestan 'Haoma' was a  concoction used medicinally .   regarding society and the 'God's ' desires  ( to further  their ends ) the difference is obvious in this contrast ; 

 

In the Rig Veda, the devas preside over natural phenomena and the exercise of power and might while the asuras preside over the establishment of a moral and social order. For instance, the deva Indra is guardian of the weather and victory in battle earning the title sahasra-mushka, 'the one with a thousand testicles' (Rig Veda 6.45.3), while the asuras Varuna and Mitra are the guardians of the cosmic and moral laws of rita . 

 

In the Rig Veda (4.42.1-6),  Varuna declares, "I, Varuna, am the king; first for me were appointed the dignities of asura, the Lord. I let the dripping waters rise up, and through rta I uphold the sky." 

 

as some sort of reply Indra (   'the one with a thousand testicles'  -  great .... speed and testosterone  now  !  )  replies 

 

Indra ,   " "Men who ride swiftly, having good horses, call on me when surrounded in battle. I, the bountiful Indra, provoke strife. I whirl up the dust, my strength is overwhelming... . No godlike power can check me - I who am unassailable. When draughts of Soma, when songs have made me frenzied, then both the unbounded regions are filled with fear." 

 

After the division ( and in the newer  Vedas )    the 'Elder Gods' ,  'Asuras ' are demonised ... Just as they  Deva 'Gods' are demonised i the later Avestas .

 

They propbab;y even called each other Natzis !  

 

But they were all ' Aryans '  ....   if we see it as a 'cultural designation, of people that were previously joined together by aspects of  culture .

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

12 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Aryan "invasion" of India  is bunkum !  Where is the archaeology ?     

 

Here is some showing Harrapan evidence ,  in The  ancient Oxus area   ( supposedly a classic 'Aryan' area until they 'Invaded' the ' Dravidians '   (probably shipped lapis lazuli all the way to Egypt .)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortugai

 

 

 

look deeper . 

 

 

 

No slavery .  the opposite . One reason their 'societa model ' grew ... people liked it   rulers didnt . 

 

 So ... Close ... but no cigar .   I keep pointing out many 'types' , in this case a  P I I  type , that took two directions  ; one more libertarian and progressive , the other by rule of force . 

 

The division was between those that wanted to rule by force and power   and those that desired progressive societal change .

 

Eg.  The Vedic  'Soma' was  known as  Vedic drug , consumed for power in war      ( a concoction based on Ephedra   ...  'speed'   ) .  

The  Avestan 'Haoma' was a  concoction used medicinally .   regarding society and the 'God's ' desires  ( to further  their ends ) the difference is obvious in this contrast ; 

 

In the Rig Veda, the devas preside over natural phenomena and the exercise of power and might while the asuras preside over the establishment of a moral and social order. For instance, the deva Indra is guardian of the weather and victory in battle earning the title sahasra-mushka, 'the one with a thousand testicles' (Rig Veda 6.45.3), while the asuras Varuna and Mitra are the guardians of the cosmic and moral laws of rita . 

 

In the Rig Veda (4.42.1-6),  Varuna declares, "I, Varuna, am the king; first for me were appointed the dignities of asura, the Lord. I let the dripping waters rise up, and through rta I uphold the sky." 

 

as some sort of reply Indra (   'the one with a thousand testicles'  -  great .... speed and testosterone  now  !  )  replies 

 

Indra ,   " "Men who ride swiftly, having good horses, call on me when surrounded in battle. I, the bountiful Indra, provoke strife. I whirl up the dust, my strength is overwhelming... . No godlike power can check me - I who am unassailable. When draughts of Soma, when songs have made me frenzied, then both the unbounded regions are filled with fear." 

 

After the division ( and in the newer  Vedas )    the 'Elder Gods' ,  'Asuras ' are demonised ... Just as they  Deva 'Gods' are demonised i the later Avestas .

 

They propbab;y even called each other Natzis !  

 

But they were all ' Aryans '  ....   if we see it as a 'cultural designation, of people that were previously joined together by aspects of  culture .

 

 

 

http://www.brownpundits.com/2017/06/29/aryan-migration-and-its-discontents/

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The most recent migrants prior to the arrival of the Indo-Europeans, were probably farmers from West Asia, who seem to have made up a large component of the genetic makeup of the people of the Indus-Saraswati civilization. The Indo-Europeans merged with these earlier populations and these various genetic strands then merged into a distinctive Indian genetic complex, easily distinguishable from other major population groups, even as it displays (like all large populations, but even more pronounced in India because of a strong tradition of caste/Jati based endogamy in the last 2000 years) a good deal of internal structure.

 

http://gnxp.nofe.me/

 

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, it does turn out that Hitler’s paternal lineage is not associated with the Indo-European migrations. That is, unlike me, Adolf Hitler does not descend from the All-father, but rather one of the men who were conquered and assimilated by the steppe pastoralists.

But E1b1b is an interesting lineage. First, it is very common in much of Africa, especially the north. Second, it is common among the Natufian people according to Lazaridis et al. In contrast the Neolithic Iranian farmers seem to have harbored haplogroups J. Today the Near East is a mix of the two, which makes sense in light of the fact that reciprocal gene flow has occurred in the last 6,000 years.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[Nungali]

48 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

https://gnxp.nofe.me/2017/04/20/aryan-marauders-from-the-steppe-came-to-india-yes-they-did/

 

" It is also found at lower frequencies among the Uyghur of Xinjiang. This is not entirely surprising either. This region of the Tarim basin was connected to Kashmir across the Pamirs. The 4th century Buddhist monk from the Tarim basin city of Kucha, who was instrumental in the translation of texts into Chinese,  may have had a Kumārajīva, Kashmiri father. " 

 

Of course !  

 The Pamirs ,  (at one time ) Airyana vaeja   ( Vendidas 'nation'  number 1 .  .... the good place to live  )   " Shamballa "  , was on the short cut route .  One only has to spend some time on google earth (and have common sense ) to see it and how the associated valleys and tributaries  into the upper Oxus made strongholds and backdoor routes  into 'China'  .... avoiding those nasty northern 'Turians ' 

 

 

they held the southern crossroads ns India upt to the main silk route and the Steppe and ew from CHina all the way to (ultimately )  NW Africa  ( furthest find of Afghani Lapis lazuli )  

 

And the  Language mear Palmirs is  akin to ancient Anantolian ... but I posted deets of that earlier . 

 

styalised mandala style  'Shang ri la ' 

 

 

 

Pamir Mountains 

 

 

 

THis guy even found  the circular river !   ( see the mandala picture  above )  that was said to surround the 'magic land'  centre 

 

( difficult due to war, terrain, landslides and montains still moving , but  ....  blah blah ... its worth watching ;

 

http://www.alexanderslostworld.com/     episode 5 T'he Land of the Golden Fleece '    is interesting .    

[Nungali]

Oh yeah ...  Pamirs is supposedly un passable .    Pamirs 'The Roof of the World ' 

 

 

google map fly over ... pick the right valleys  and enlarge ... eventually ; 

 

 

and then read descriptions of 'Airyana Vaeja ' . 

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

5 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Oh yeah ...  Pamirs is supposedly un passable .    Pamirs 'The Roof of the World ' 

 

 

google map fly over ... pick the right valleys  and enlarge ... eventually ; 

 

 

and then read descriptions of 'Airyana Vaeja ' . 

 

 

 

 

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A new paper using ancient DNA from Scythians (Iranian speakers) also shows that they carried Z93. Some of them had East Asian admixture. These were the ones from the eastern steppe. So not entirely surprising.

 

 

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You see see that this salmon color is modal in tribal South Indian populations, or non-Brahmin South Indians. It drops in frequency as you move north and west, and as you move up the caste ladder.

 

https://gnxp.nofe.me/2017/04/20/aryan-marauders-from-the-steppe-came-to-india-yes-they-did/

 

Quote

it seems clear that this signature is not spurious, but is indicative of some migration from South Asia to Southeast Asia in the historical period, as one might infer based on cultural affinities. It is also found at lower frequencies among the Uyghur of Xinjiang. This is not entirely surprising either....

Quote

 

 

 

So he's saying there is an ancient Pre-Aryan Invasion emigration of South Indians up to Xinjiang.

Edited July 11, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[Nungali]

 

Kampyr Tepe

 

 

'Pyramids '  !  

 

 

Now  'desert' 

 

[Nungali]

11 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

 

 

 

 

https://gnxp.nofe.me/2017/04/20/aryan-marauders-from-the-steppe-came-to-india-yes-they-did/

 

 

So he's saying there is an ancient Pre-Aryan Invasion emigration of South Indians up to Xinjiang.

 

 

Ahem  .... 

 

peeps moved back and forwards all over the place   waaaaay  in the past   before the was anything like a bronze age . 

 

I seem to remember some guy saying that early in the thread  

[voidisyinyang]

48 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Ahem  .... 

 

peeps moved back and forwards all over the place   waaaaay  in the past   before the was anything like a bronze age . 

 

I seem to remember some guy saying that early in the thread  

 

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The West Eurasian ancestry of the Uygurs is not overwhelmingly Northern European-like. Weirdly the graphs below suggest it is somewhat less Northern European than the West Eurasian ancestry contributing to the Hazara! Though that may be an artifact of some sort. The point is that as suggested by many scholars it seems highly likely that the Indo-European population of the Tarim basin was a composition, and that Tocharians and Indo-Iranians were both present. And, probably did not appear at the same time.

https://www.unz.com/gnxp/indo-europeans-red-in-tooth-claw/

Quote

It turns out that the earliest steppe dwellers were not particularly pale of mien going by their genetic architecture on pigmentation loci. My objection has no basis, because the modern European phenotype is very new, and likely post-dates the arrival of Indo-Europeans to India. Additionally, there is suggestive evidence of a steppe connection, such as the widespread presence of the “European” allele for lactase persistence in Northwest India. This allele is new, and swept up in frequency very recently. Its presence in Northwest India almost certainly indicates non-trivial demographic connections.

 

Quote

 

two quick points

1) the gods of the vedas are now minor gods, while the major gods in sanatana dharma were then marginal (e.g., vishnu). so you have a transformation of the pantheon.

2) devotionalism like vaishnavism on the populist level and the ascendency of advaita on the elite level transformed the substance of the vedic religion.

one way to characterize it is that brahmanical religion was transformed by the challenge of sramanic movements like buddhism. an analogy might be the difference between the temple judaism of the sadducees and the jewish religion of the pharisees.

some people go further and assert that much of puranic hinduism consists of the sublimation of indo-aryan religion into the religious substrate of pre-aryan india, with the eventual victor of the cultural-religious traditions of the latter. i think this is too neat a formulation, because i think there’s a fair amount of evidence that the indo-aryans were already substantially transmuted by the bacteria-margiana culture before they arrived in india….

 

 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-race-question-are-bonobos-human/#.WWR6r1GQwqQ

 

Quote

 

We know that the Uyghur are a new population, which emerged in the past 2,000 years due to admixture between a resident West Eurasian population, and Turkic groups. We know this both through genetics (decay of linkage disequilibrium) and history. There is also a great deal of circumstantial evidence that the West Eurasian forebears of the Uyghurs, the Tocharians, were long distance migrants from the west. So who were the indigenes of the Tarim? It may be that due to the local ecology the center of Eurasia has long been relatively underpopulated in relation to the peripheries, with the emergence of new lifestyles (e.g., oasis agriculture, nomadism) resulting in the ethnogenesis of groups which arose recently to occupy the midway position between Europeans and East Asians.

This does not mean that I believe that before 5,000 BC the gene flow between East Asia and Western Eurasia was zero. Rather, I think there are lots of data which imply that it was simply very low (the East Asian admixture among Tatars in Russia, and the West Eurasian admixture among Mongols, both show evidence of being relatively recent, due to the rise of horsemanship).

 

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[voidisyinyang]

7 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I'm glad we haven't linked the Aryans with the dragons yet.

 

And I'm still looking for the missing link to my Neanderthal ancestors.

 

 

 

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It turns out that it may be that the Bushmen/non-Bushmen separation is only 1/3 as long ago in the past as the Neanderthal/modern human separation. In fact, the Bushmen may predate, and not be part of, the “Out of Africa” event.

 

The Bushmen are the original Taoists.

 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/the-end-of-archaic-h-sapiens/#.WWR-SFGQwqQ

 

Read up.

Edited July 11, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[Nungali]

59 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

https://www.unz.com/gnxp/indo-europeans-red-in-tooth-claw/

 

 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-race-question-are-bonobos-human/#.WWR6r1GQwqQ

 

 

 

First horse domesticators meet frst cattle domesticators 

 

The 'cultural cauldron ' of the 'Oxus basin '  -  ingres from all directions ,  In and out, over time ,   (  http://sydney.edu.au/arts/research/neaf/news/GonurTepe.shtml    *   )  mixed in with the original paleo inhabitants  See 'History if central Asia ' _ UNESCO .  Vol 1  ;The Dawn of Time '  http://www.unesco.org/new/en/social-and-human-sciences/themes/general-and-regional-histories/history-of-civilizations-of-central-asia/

 

*

To further back the Indo-European credentials of ancient Gonur Tepe, Viktor has excavated what he calles a haoma (soma) mixing installation. Haoma, a sacred concoction for ancient Hindus, as well as Zoroastrians, was made from a mixture of cannabis, poppy and ephedrine. Although Michael Wood was able to track down and try some haoma in the markets of Pakistan for his documentary, I have to take his word for its spiritually uplifting effects! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by Nungali

[voidisyinyang]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

First horse domesticators meet frst cattle domesticators 

 

The 'cultural cauldron ' of the 'Oxus basin '  -  ingres from all directions ,  In and out, over time ,   (  http://sydney.edu.au/arts/research/neaf/news/GonurTepe.shtml )  mixed in with the original paleo inhabitants  See 'History if central Asia ' _ UNESCO .  Vol 1  ;The Dawn of Time '  http://www.unesco.org/new/en/social-and-human-sciences/themes/general-and-regional-histories/history-of-civilizations-of-central-asia/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

cool.

 

Quote

The Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex (or BMAC, also known as the Oxus civilisation) is the modern archaeological designation for a Bronze Age civilisation of Central Asia, dated to c. 2300–1700 BC, located in present-day northern Afghanistan, eastern Turkmenistan, southern Uzbekistan and western Tajikistan, centred on the upper Amu Darya (Oxus River).

https://www.unz.com/gnxp/indo-europeans-red-in-tooth-claw/

Quote

there’s a fair amount of evidence that the indo-aryans were already substantially transmuted by the bacteria-margiana culture before they arrived in india….

 

So that's your "old Aryan Empire" - congratulations!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehrgarh

 

This site is also now considered Indo-Aryan - dated back to

Quote

The earliest settlement at Mehrgarh, in the northeast corner of the 495-acre (2.00 km²) site, was a small farming village which was inhabited from circa 6500 BCE.^[

 

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/03/rakhigarhi-ancient-dna-paper-probably.html

 

So that's the ancient DNA study that everyone is waiting for - Harappan DNA.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/02/rumors-leaks-thread.html?commentPage=2

Quote

 

While waiting for the Rakhigarhi DNA results, take a look at the article this week from the leading Indian newpaper about the aryan migration:


http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/how-genetics-is-settling-the-aryan-migration-debate/article19090301.ece

June 19, 2017 at 3:44 PM

 

 

So the rumor is that it's NOT Aryan (r1a)....

 

https://www.unz.com/gnxp/the-holocene-origins-of-indians-nearing-conclusion/

 

Quote

To begin, crop translocations from the Near East across India and Central Asia are examined for wheat (Triticum aestivum) and barley (Hordeum vulgare) from the eighth to the second millennia BC when they reach China. The case of pulses and flax (Linum usitatissimum) that only complete this journey in Han times (206 BC–AD 220), often never fully adopted, is also addressed. The discussion then turns to the Chinese millets, Panicum miliaceum and Setaria italica, peaches (Amygdalus persica) and apricots (Armeniaca vulgaris), tracing their movement from the fifth millennium to the second millennium BC when the Panicum miliaceum reaches Europe and Setaria italica Northern India, with peaches and apricots present in Kashmir and Swat. Finally, the translocation of japonica rice from China to India that gave rise to indica rice is considered, possibly dating to the second millennium BC. The routes these crops travelled include those to the north via the Inner Asia Mountain Corridor, across Middle Asia, where there is good evidence for wheat, barley and the Chinese millets.

 

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0959683616650268

 

http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.com/2017/02/harappan-y-dna-leak.html

 

More on the "rumors" - so if it is R2 - that would be very fascinating -

 

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[Marblehead]

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

First there was Neanderthals . Originally they fought ,   but later they mated,   with white Aryan dragons , and they gave birth to a race of Marbleheads . 

 

There ya go !    

 

.... (  note  'European landscape ' ) 

Thanks for the new line of thought.  I'll research that.

 

[Marblehead]

7 hours ago, Brian said:

Clearly, your ancestors were Aryan dragons on one side of the family and Neanderthal dragons on the other side.  Answers a lot of questions, doesn't it?

Thanks Brian.  More lines of thought to research.

 

I'm sure I will find my true ancestry with all this help I'm getting.

 

[Apech]

35 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Thanks Brian.  More lines of thought to research.

 

I'm sure I will find my true ancestry with all this help I'm getting.

 

 

 

Could you repeat that in Proto-Uralic I'm sick of all this PIE talk.  Thank you.

[Marblehead]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

Could you repeat that in Proto-Uralic I'm sick of all this PIE talk.  Thank you.

No, that was so off the wall that I don't want to repeat it in any language.

 

 

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Marblehead said:

No, that was so off the wall that I don't want to repeat it in any language.

 

 

 

 

Build bridges not walls!

[Marblehead]

Ah!, the famous "Bridge to Nowhere".