Chinese Bones

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

quoting me is not what you said.

 

Nice try though.

 

 

 

 

You introduced the idea that the term Aryan and Aryan Empire was Nazi.

[voidisyinyang]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

You introduced the idea that the term Aryan and Aryan Empire was Nazi.

 

That is not true. The OP introduced the term "Aryan Empire" which is an empirical lie and only used by Neo-Nazis - as I then referenced with evidence.

 

I'll spell it out for you:

 

Quote

 

OP:

 

I have made a few posts about :  the old  Aryan  'Empire'

 

 

Now google the phrase:

 

"old Aryan Empire" 

 

and presto -

 

Neo-nazi links.

 

That I posted as evidence.

 

There never was an "old Aryan Empire" but that is what Neo-Nazis call it.

Edited July 15, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[Apech]

10 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

That is not true. The OP introduced the term "Aryan Empire" which is an empirical lie and only used by Neo-Nazis - as I then referenced with evidence.

 

I'll spell it out for you:

 

 

Now google the phrase:

 

"old Aryan Empire" 

 

and presto -

 

Neo-nazi links.

 

That I posted as evidence.

 

There never was an "old Aryan Empire" but that is what Neo-Nazis call it.

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=old+aryan+empire&t=opera&ia=web

[voidisyinyang]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=old+aryan+empire&t=opera&ia=web

 

obviously you know that a search in "quotes" is entirely different than just three separate words searched together.

 

Nice try though. This is "old aryan empire" the phrase used in the OP - you get Neo-Nazi hits:

 

Aryan Race in Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Pakistan,and ...

... Aryan Race in Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Pakistan,and India. A great post! ... Unfortunately the Empire of the old Aryan Empire (the Persian empire) ...

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t642152/

Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran: Shah Nameh ...

... is made that one does not have to be Aryan born to have a Shah title of royal station or to even be an Shah of this old Aryan Empire.

allempires.com/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?TID=19774

 

Religious Diversity in

The movement believes that Slavs are actually "Slav-Aryans", although other Aryan nations exist as well, and the Lithuanians are among the descendants of the old Aryan Empire.

Edited July 15, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[Apech]

1 minute ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

obviously you know that a search in "quotes" is entirely different than just three separate words searched together.

 

Nice try though.

 

 

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q="old+aryan+empire"&t=opera&ia=web

[voidisyinyang]

Just now, Apech said:

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q="old+aryan+empire"&t=opera&ia=web

 

As I said - neo-nazi hits. The 4th hit refers to just India - which is not how the term was used in the OP.

Aryan Race in Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Pakistan,and ...

... Aryan Race in Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Pakistan,and India. A great post! ... Unfortunately the Empire of the old Aryan Empire (the Persian empire) ...

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t642152/

Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran: Shah Nameh ...

... is made that one does not have to be Aryan born to have a Shah title of royal station or to even be an Shah of this old Aryan Empire.

allempires.com/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?TID=19774

 

Religious Diversity in

The movement believes that Slavs are actually "Slav-Aryans", although other Aryan nations exist as well, and the Lithuanians are among the descendants of the ol

[Apech]

One link in four is neo nazi - the one you chose.

[voidisyinyang]

19 minutes ago, Apech said:

One link in four is neo nazi - the one you chose.

 

This was already covered earlier in the thread.

 

Your claim is factually incorrect. You need to read the links.

 

I'll go back in the thread for you and repost the material.

 

Page 2:

 

So take your first claim:

 

Quote

"Old aryan empire"

 

Google search it.

 

First hit:

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=FOnsCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT284&lpg=PT284&dq="old+aryan+empire"&source=bl&ots=uQtVQt4brZ&sig=8DWn6a1I7n9_vMQtW043pB8goQQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjnys_31O7UAhXDwVQKHSoEAxgQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q="old aryan empire"&f=false

 

Quote

The invention of history in this movement's written sources is quite amazing.

 

 

The "movement" referred to is Neo-nazi.

 

So that was the third hit.

 

The 2nd hit uses this phrase
 

shah "old aryan empire" - now google that with neo-nazi.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Hitler-consider-Iranians-to-be-Aryans-and-Russians-not

Quote

The irony is that it wasn't Persian nationalists who started this "Iran is Aryan" thing, it was Europeans.

 

and

 

Quote

Today, talk of the "Aryan race" in the West is restricted to white supremacist circles in North America and neo-Nazi militants in Europe.

Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2010/08/post-2.html#ixzz4msaopQu3

 

Iranian Identity, the 'Aryan Race,' and Jake Gyllenhaal

by REZA ZIA-EBRAHIMI in London

06 Aug 2010 13:34

Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2010/08/post-2.html#ixzz4msauDa2l

 

So that puts the 2nd hit as also Neo-nazi.

 

As I said - the 4th hit just refers to India, which is not how the OP used the phrase.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[Marblehead]

7 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

So indigenous or native peoples is more acceptable or the particular tribal name.

 

 

And even these are not technically correct.  "First Americans" would be difficult to argue against.  Only second generations of the "First Americans" could be properly called "Native Peoples" (born in the Americas) of the Americas.

 

And let us not forget that migrations to the Americas happened from both sides of the continent. 

 

 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

And even these are not technically correct.  "First Americans" would be difficult to argue against.  Only second generations of the "First Americans" could be properly called "Native Peoples" (born in the Americas) of the Americas.

 

And let us not forget that migrations to the Americas happened from both sides of the continent. 

 

 

 

 

.

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by Apech

[Apech]

6 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

This was already covered earlier in the thread.

 

Your claim is factually incorrect. You need to read the links.

 

I'll go back in the thread for you and repost the material.

 

Page 2:

 

So take your first claim:

 

 

Google search it.

 

First hit:

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=FOnsCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT284&lpg=PT284&dq="old+aryan+empire"&source=bl&ots=uQtVQt4brZ&sig=8DWn6a1I7n9_vMQtW043pB8goQQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjnys_31O7UAhXDwVQKHSoEAxgQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q="old aryan empire"&f=false

 

 

 

The "movement" referred to is Neo-nazi.

 

So that was the third hit.

 

The 2nd hit uses this phrase
 

shah "old aryan empire" - now google that with neo-nazi.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Hitler-consider-Iranians-to-be-Aryans-and-Russians-not

 

and

 

Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2010/08/post-2.html#ixzz4msaopQu3

 

Iranian Identity, the 'Aryan Race,' and Jake Gyllenhaal

by REZA ZIA-EBRAHIMI in London

06 Aug 2010 13:34

Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2010/08/post-2.html#ixzz4msauDa2l

 

So that puts the 2nd hit as also Neo-nazi.

 

As I said - the 4th hit just refers to India, which is not how the OP used the phrase.

 

 

 

 

Yes!  Nungali is a neo-nazi why else would he use that term.  You made your point very well.

[voidisyinyang]

5 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

Yes!  Nungali is a neo-nazi why else would he use that term.  You made your point very well.

 

2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

And even these are not technically correct.  "First Americans" would be difficult to argue against.  Only second generations of the "First Americans" could be properly called "Native Peoples" (born in the Americas) of the Americas.

 

And let us not forget that migrations to the Americas happened from both sides of the continent. 

 

 

 

What do you call the birds who migrate every year? No one "owns" the land and that is also what first indigenous peoples believed.

 

Modern human civilization has wiped out life on Earth faster than any previous mass extinction.

 

So to compare current migrations with the first people using spears to hunt megafauna after the last ice age is a bit silly.

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

Curiously, it seems most tribes have two names (or more) -- one they call themselves which translates to something along the lines of "the only real humans" and then the name other tribes call them which is typically not so flattering ("hillbillies" or "descendents of Old Bignose" or "smell like armadillo" -- something like that...)*

 

Not sure if that makes them neo-nazis or aryans or what because I am not an expert but it is probably worth noting that most of them don't really care whether they are called Indians.

 

*I'm a cunning linguist but not a professional one so my translations might not be precise...

[Miffymog]

21 hours ago, Brian said:

 

 

Brilliant - I now have a higher down load limit so I can watch some of  the Youtube links. Quite a bit of Monty Python was just too weird for me but some of it was inspired surreal humour. And I now get to watch all of the links you post and it cheers up my day

 

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, voidisyinyang said:

No one "owns" the land and that is also what first indigenous peoples believed.

 

Modern human civilization has wiped out life on Earth faster than any previous mass extinction.

 

So to compare current migrations with the first people using spears to hunt megafauna after the last ice age is a bit silly.

 

Second paragraph:  No argument there whatever.  This is a sad truth.

 

First paragraph:  So what do you call them (most of them) constantly at war with other tribes claiming hunting territorial rights?  I don't call it peaceful co-existence.  Yes, being politically correct, this is what is common knowledge - that they lived in peace and harmony and never made claim to the land.  But they made claim to the hunting territory.  Isn't that the land, the waters, and the shy?  The First Americans were as peace-loving as they are portrayed to be.

 

Third paragraph:  Well, the First Americans caused the extinction of the horse and camel on the North American continent.  And they helped with the extinction of the Rhino, Giant Sloth, and the various species of Elephant.  Even the Africans and Asians have accomplished that yet.

 

[Brian]

The Chicxulub impactor, he jus' laff an' laff.

[voidisyinyang]

2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Second paragraph:  No argument there whatever.  This is a sad truth.

 

First paragraph:  So what do you call them (most of them) constantly at war with other tribes claiming hunting territorial rights?  I don't call it peaceful co-existence.  Yes, being politically correct, this is what is common knowledge - that they lived in peace and harmony and never made claim to the land.  But they made claim to the hunting territory.  Isn't that the land, the waters, and the shy?  The First Americans were as peace-loving as they are portrayed to be.

 

Third paragraph:  Well, the First Americans caused the extinction of the horse and camel on the North American continent.  And they helped with the extinction of the Rhino, Giant Sloth, and the various species of Elephant.  Even the Africans and Asians have accomplished that yet.

 

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/01/what-killed-great-beasts-north-america

Quote

Many researchers have blamed their demise on incoming Paleoindians, the first Americans, who allegedly hunted them to extinction. But a new study fingers climate and environmental changes instead.

Quote

a final sample of 57 megafauna dates from 47 different sites and 25 Paleoindian dates from 22 sites. When the two databases were compared, it became clear that most of the megafauna had already disappeared before humans came on the scene—suggesting that the humans had little to do with their demise.

 

So you got your "third paragraph" wrong.

 

On your first paragraph:

 

Quote

Despite evidence of warfare and violent conflict in pre-Columbian North America, scholars argue that the scale and scope of Native American violence is exagerated.

http://www.uapress.arizona.edu/Books/bid1872.htm

 

I don't idealize the "noble savage" - I'm just saying it was not as bad as Western genocidal colonialism - or call it IndoEuropean Ecological Imperialism if you want to. haha.

 

 

[Marblehead]

5 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/01/what-killed-great-beasts-north-america

 

So you got your "third paragraph" wrong.

 

On your first paragraph:

 

http://www.uapress.arizona.edu/Books/bid1872.htm

 

I don't idealize the "noble savage" - I'm just saying it was not as bad as Western genocidal colonialism - or call it IndoEuropean Ecological Imperialism if you want to. haha.

 

 

I do reserve the right to be wrong.

 

True, I was not fair regarding paragraph three and I was well aware of the fact that climate change had much to do with various extinctions but that does not diminish the role the First Americans played in their extinction.

 

And yes, the Lewis and Clark expedition encountered numerous friendly tribes throughout their journey.  But it is noted that the friendly tribes always told them about the war-like tribes and how to avoid them.

[Nungali]

18 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

Nungali said:

 

 

Funny how you cant make a proper quote from an actual post of mine       

[Nungali]

see how a real quote of what someone really wrote has a time and date stamp   

 

By the way ,   an influence from a culture that goes into a continent is not related to genetics  . 

 

[Nungali]

18 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

You introduced the idea that the term Aryan and Aryan Empire was Nazi.

 

Not only that, when he first read the term 'Aryan' here , his limited education threw up   NATZIS !   in his  mind. 

 

I had to direct him to some research , to show  the other real meaning,  that he had ever heard of before , pre modern era .  So he ran off to read up on P.I. E.   cultures and peoples  (note plurals )  and immediately assumed it reakted to his own Natzi philosophy and had to immediatley link it to genetics ...  just like  a Natzi ploy     . 

 

.

 

 

[Nungali]

18 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

That is not true. The OP introduced the term "Aryan Empire" which is an empirical lie and only used by Neo-Nazis - as I then referenced with evidence.

 

Liar . 

 

Its an ancoent term used long before the modern era. It comes from the vendidad , English translation.  No doubt the word in its original form and language was a more accurate description. 

 

And I previously stated the  term 'Empire'  might just mean people linked by trade or cultural aspects and that PIE might have even been a trade langugae between diverse peoples / 

 

All points you ignore to try and push your warped agenda . 

 

 

18 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

I'll spell it out for you:

 

 

Now google the phrase:

 

"old Aryan Empire" 

 

and presto -

 

Neo-nazi links.

 

That I posted as evidence.

 

There never was an "old Aryan Empire" but that is what Neo-Nazis call it.

 

Liar 

 

I typed it in just then ;  first hit 

 

Aryan - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

1.  
2.  

Chalcolithic (Copper Age). Pontic Steppe. Domestication of the horse · Kurgan · Kurgan culture ..... Unlike the several meanings connected with ārya- in Old Indo-Aryan, the Old Persian term only has an ethnic meaning. ... of Kanishka the Great, the founder of the Kushan Empire at Rabatak, which was discovered in 1993 in an ...

‎Indo-Iranians · ‎Indo-Aryan peoples · ‎Āryāvarta · ‎Aryan (disambiguation)

 

But if you add  Aryan race   ... of which I never spoke or of which there is NO SUCH THING

 

 you get ;

 

Aryan race - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race

1.  
2.  

The Aryan race was a racial grouping commonly used in the period of the late 19th century to ..... The ideology of Nazism was based upon the conception of the ancient Aryan race being a master race and that the .... The Nazis viewed the downfall of the Roman Empire as being the result of the pollution of blood from racial ...

‎Origin of the term · ‎19th-century physical ... · ‎Occultism · ‎Aryanism

 

 

Boy !  Have you been exposed !   

 

PS  .... Haaar   Haaarrrrrr  !  

[voidisyinyang]

2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I do reserve the right to be wrong.

 

True, I was not fair regarding paragraph three and I was well aware of the fact that climate change had much to do with various extinctions but that does not diminish the role the First Americans played in their extinction.

 

And yes, the Lewis and Clark expedition encountered numerous friendly tribes throughout their journey.  But it is noted that the friendly tribes always told them about the war-like tribes and how to avoid them.

 

Genocidal colonialism did cause tribes to become more war-like indeed.

[Nungali]

By the extreme ignorance  and arrogance you demonstrated yourself capable of here ... no one  is going to take anything you say as worth anything or   worth investigating . 

[voidisyinyang]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Liar . 

 

Its an ancoent term used long before the modern era. It comes from the vendidad , English translation.  No doubt the word in its original form and language was a more accurate description. 

 

And I previously stated the  term 'Empire'  might just mean people linked by trade or cultural aspects and that PIE might have even been a trade langugae between diverse peoples / 

 

All points you ignore to try and push your warped agenda . 

 

 

 

Liar 

 

I typed it in just then ;  first hit 

 

Aryan - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

1.  
2.  

Chalcolithic (Copper Age). Pontic Steppe. Domestication of the horse · Kurgan · Kurgan culture ..... Unlike the several meanings connected with ārya- in Old Indo-Aryan, the Old Persian term only has an ethnic meaning. ... of Kanishka the Great, the founder of the Kushan Empire at Rabatak, which was discovered in 1993 in an ...

‎Indo-Iranians · ‎Indo-Aryan peoples · ‎Āryāvarta · ‎Aryan (disambiguation)

 

But if you add  Aryan race   ... of which I never spoke or of which there is NO SUCH THING

 

 you get ;

 

Aryan race - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race

1.  
2.  

The Aryan race was a racial grouping commonly used in the period of the late 19th century to ..... The ideology of Nazism was based upon the conception of the ancient Aryan race being a master race and that the .... The Nazis viewed the downfall of the Roman Empire as being the result of the pollution of blood from racial ...

‎Origin of the term · ‎19th-century physical ... · ‎Occultism · ‎Aryanism

 

 

Boy !  Have you been exposed !   

 

PS  .... Haaar   Haaarrrrrr  !  

 

Right - the "term" was used by the Persians - but that does not mean an actual "empire" existed.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=a0IF9IdkdYEC&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=vendidad+,+English+translation+aryan+empire&source=bl&ots=g-DwcqDf9M&sig=t8L7FuAgWytxScTs19CgcBSBWvg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjS9MqT3IzVAhWJxFQKHaW2A5YQ6AEIQzAF#v=onepage&q=vendidad %2C English translation aryan empire&f=false

 

Quote

"it was not possible to use the term empire of Iran"....It was therefore not possible to use the term empire of Iranians."

 

The reference to the term you give is from the 2nd century A.d. while in the OP you are referring to the 5th C. BCE. and yet the archeological digs in the Tarim Basim go back to what - 2nd millennium BCE.

 

You used the term in the OP to describe an Aryan Empire stretching from China to the far West. Again this was never true.

 

In the 4th hit - under google searching "old Aryan Empire" - you get an empire of India which again is not what you were describing. Now you say you meant an empire of Persia.

 

You say it refers to "culture and language" but as that book link points out even your "old Aryan empire" could not actually be called an empire - in contrast Romans considered all non-latin and non-Greek speakers to be Barbarians.

 

Maybe that was the goal of the "aryan empire" but it did not achieve it. Maybe you consider such ethnocentrism to be admirable.

 

A “Persian” Iran?: Challenging the Aryan Myth and Persian Ethnocentrism

https://iranian.com/main/blog/ajammc/persian-iran-challenging-aryan-myth-and-persian-ethnocentrism.html

 

https://ajammc.com/2012/05/18/a-persian-iran-challenging-the-aryan-myth-and-persian-ethnocentrism/

 

Quote

The increasingly centralized and authoritarian state of Reza Shah Pahlavi sought to eliminate linguistic and cultural diversity by crafting a narrative of Persian Iranian history that went back nearly 2500 years that was united by the determination of the Persian people. This was of course an artificial history, just as nationalisms always are-

 

Quote

. Aryanism was one of the most influential of these ideologies, and it identified the Indo-European language tree (which includes Sanskrit, Persian, and most European languages) as proof of a migration of an imagined Aryan nation out of India, through Persia, and into Europe. Aryanism was highly convenient for Europeans because it made sense of the Indian and Persian civilizations they were encountering through their colonial enterprises.

 

Quote

his rule was anachronistic and repulsive to some Iranians- many of whom scoffed at his references to Cyrus the Great and divine rule by using terms like, “universal ruler,” Shahanshah (“King of Kings”), and Aryamehr, (“light of the Aryans”) to describe himself- most Iranians eventually bought these racialist myths of Iranian-ness and the narrative became naturalized.

 

Quote

many Iranians outside of Iran as well cling to notions of Aryanism and Persianism deeply antithetical to an inclusive, egalitarian democratic future.

 

As I already documented the Aryan theory uses "language and culture" as code for race.

 

To say race doesn't exist or is not referred to is just a tautology - of course race doesn't exist, just as "Jews have "jewish traits" is a self-circular tautology. That does not mean it isn't the basis for racism.

So using "language and culture" as an attempt to hide racism - is the same excuse as Aryan meaning "pure" as an aristocratic elite. So then you get this racist argument from the same meaning of "pure" Aryan language and culture:

 

Genetic Similarity Theory as a Cause for Ethnocentrism https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2016/03/17/genetic-similarity-theory-as-a-cause-for-ethnocentrism/

Edited July 16, 2017 by voidisyinyang