Chinese Bones

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Well, you done good.  Gave me nothing to comment to.  Agreements are inspiring but rather boring.

 

But I will say that I have never referred to them as "noble savages".  It never seems right or accurate to me.

 

I'll bet a lot of their bones looked like Chinese bones.

 

 

My God !  

 

Someone bought up the original subject of this post !     Thats right !   Thats what all this was supposed to have been about ! 

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, silent thunder said:

I'm ignorant, no doubt.  But this conversation has been fascinating and I sometimes don't let my ignorance stop me from blabbing... so, this is what I'm prompted to add to this intriguing conversation about something way over my head and out of my field of prior study.

 

 

 

 

Luv it !   Thank you !    Yes , those are the bones of members of the Human Race  .

 

Now, any reasonable person would assume that means we are all one race . 

 

You name a supposed   'race '    and its made up of people from other 'races'  coming together .  of course, that makes no sense at all .

 

People are  so insistent about many things !     Linguistics ?   Even some linguists doubt the basic premise on which it works . Genetics ? What does it track but changes or mutations in the gene pool , so what  ! ?   Quantum physics , dark matter , alternate universes ?  Maybe just ideas to try and patch the holes in an attempt at a unified field theory . . . .    what if the fields are not meant to be , or are not, naturally unified and  G force is 'supposed to be '  apart , or a result of the other 3 ? 

 

 I know ... Thats Nungali crazy talk ... and I deserve to be chastised and mocked for it ..... in 72 point type . 

 

( I will tell you how sick it can all get , young Nungerali was talking to a woman and she said she was from South Africa and mentioned apartheid . I said I didnt like South Africans because of that and it made me prejudiced against them. She asked 'You are prejudiced against coloured people ? " I said,  " No. I am sorry but , I am prejudiced against white South Africans " and she goes :No, you are confused I am coloured, I left because of prejudice against me ! "

 

"You !   ... but you look  white , a little tanned maybe , some freckles and brown hair and eyes .  How can they tell."

 

"They looked under my tongue "  she told me  .........         WTF ?      

 

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Okay.  Bad example in that picture you posted.

 

I can't even refer to it in any kind of response.

 

 

The one that represented me did not have a metal hip joint .   

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

So are you still sticking to this false claim that "proto Indo Iranians" are the "source of 'European people' and that PIE is "not" the source of European people?

 

You are continually confused ....  when you wrote this, you even quoted me above it as saying ; 

" and that  .... is one reason why I choose to use the more modern term ' Proto Indo Iranian '    (as I earlier pointed out ) , over PIE Proto Indo European.  The 'Aryans' were but a part of many dynamics and were only active in certain areas .  To use PIE , to me, is incorrect as some  can think  they are the source of 'European people ' . 

 

That is .... I said ,  if people think it means 'a source of European people '   it is incorrect    

 

Is this a game you play  ? 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

. 

Because you realize that your Pan-Aryan fantasy is just that - a total B.S. fantasy that happens to be what Neo-Nazis also think as well? haha.

 

Do you really think that "Proto-Indo-Iranians" (i.e. Aryans" are the "source" of European people and NOT PIE?

 

Or are you gonna "edit" that error as well? haha.

 

 

OP Error.

 

 

OP Error on July 3rd.

 

Note, for about the 7th time now ;   'Aryan "empire" was in quote  marks and i  explained then and numerous times its a term they used and might just be describing people they traded with or just places they knew about . 

 

You continually ignore that as it does not suit your strange agenda   and keep returning to this phrase like a jumping needle on an LP record . 

 

Are you trying to 'save face ' or something ? 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

So the OP erroneously claims an "old Aryan empire" that includes the Tarim basin mummies.

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/44553-chinese-bones/

But the Tarim basin mummies are definitely not Aryan!

 

NOpe .  Here is your big mistake . It lies in the way you connected parts of my first post together . That is why you refuse to post the contextual bits and extract a few words or a phrase .

 

Show me in that post where I claimed  the mummies were "Aryan' . 

 

here is the first introductory paragraph that caused all this silly flap of yours ;

 

"  I have made a few posts about :  the old  Aryan  'Empire'    that stretched  from  (now ) western China to (now ) Turkey  ,  'Caucasian Chinese mummies ' , how the Aryans were not to be defined by race or ethnicity and put up a picture of a painting of an old Aryan King from Pishdadian dynasties ( before history ) in very much  Chinese looking robes features and hairstyle. "

No where does it say those mummies were Aryan . "

 

 -    First I mention some other posts I made , I separate them by color for you; blue , see below if you cant understand its meaning ,   red ;  another post I made, not, no use of the word Aryan ,  green, a note I often include to make it clear what I am talking about, which you chose to absolutely ignore  , italics, another reference to a post. 

 

When you read it you added a whole lot of  ' becauses , so and therefores ... in your own mind ! 

 

You have added all your own stuff to connect that together in an incorrect way .  The  (Now) Western China  I referred to is NOT the Tarim Basin area .... you didnt even look at the maps I showed and just went off ranting and screaming about your own suppositions ; 

 

LOOK ! :

 

 

Middle far right .  Do you realise how recently that became ' China '  ... the 'NOW  China . ie   current and political . 

 

Have you ever seen the ethnicity of these western Chinese people .   This is no where near the Tarim Basin !

 

and the only reason I called the mummies caucasian is that is what all the flap was about and what term people know them by and would know what I am referring to . 

 

Also regarding what I wrote about Greek and Aryan (cultural) connections related to mythology .... its about a connection between their cultures , there were inks and info on that .   Prometheus was chained to a rock in the  Caucasus , you realise . 

 

But you had to imagine Aryan war chariots riding into greece and creating civilisation ... and then abuse me for thinking that and call me a Natzi. 

 

Like the similar reaction you had when I said  'aryan influences ' passed into Europe .  You went off on pages of genetics to deny that , even though I was not talking about that .

 

here is an example of what I was talking about .... take Zoroastrianism , which was considered an important religion of the Aryan people that  came to power in  Persia    . If anyone studies religion .... objectively .... ALL  mainstream Euro religions ( Jew Christian and Muslim ) all have  inherited basic theological principles from Zoroastrianism . 

 

Now, when I make a comment like ' Influence passed  into Europe' I am more than happy to explain what I mean, if anyone asks me a question about it . 

 

But taking the tack you have here , is just reactive and is an attacking mode .

 

So dont complain when you get attacked   back... in a more  and honest and open way .... 

 

and stop whining to the mods about requests  to you   ......   thankyou       

 

3 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

(notice I didn't enlarge the font - for extra emphasis I kept the font normal size).

 

Oh gawd  ... yes, we noticed .... put one gold star in your exercise book then  

 

 

3 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

 

 

Now notice the Indo-Iranian (i.e. Aryan) is way down on the bottom while Tocharian is way up on the top.

 

If you raid Victor Mair's pdf - I'll link it

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwifhoKzuY7VAhXGzlQKHZAsAz4QFgh3MA4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsino-platonic.org%2Fcomplete%2Fspp259_tocharian_origins.pdf&usg=AFQjCNH-ruGF4sLDg3JgpNwD6MjG3BlfAg

 

So he says any Iranian (Aryan) influence with the Tarim Basin would not have been until 1000 BCE whereas the Tarim Basim - as the image shows - goes back to 3300 BCE.

 

So look at this image - it shows how Iranian (Aryan) is a later (I chose the format option of italicization instead of enlargement, I hope that is o.k. with the mods) "encirclement" of the Tokharians of the Tarim Basin.

 

 

I'm quoting Victor Mair's pdf

 

Emphasis of changing the font and bolding it is not in the original - so please don't harp on me mods for making that formatting change.

 

 

 

'Caucasian Mummies '   not Aryan mummies ... you made up Aryan Mummies , not me ! 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

It does!

 

Actually I read somewhere that the Vedic people distinguished on language and included Dravidians provided they spoke Sanskrit (or a Prakrit presumably).  I don't think these distinction are ethnic so much as cultural.

 

 

 

Hmmmm ... I seem to remember some guy here trying to point that out   ????   

 

Wait !   '  Vedic  people '  !   ?  

 

Who are vedic people ?          

[Apech]

Just now, Nungali said:

 

Hmmmm ... I seem to remember some guy here trying to point that out   ????   

 

Wait !   '  Vedic  people '  !   ?  

 

Who are vedic people ?          

 

 

the people of the Vedas presumably ... 

[Nungali]

16 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

the people of the Vedas presumably ... 

 

Then I would presume you mean also those nasty  'Asuras' that fell from grace  and became the   ' Good Guys' of the Iranians  ... they were 'people of the Vedas'. 

 

Unless you meant the early Vedas ... where they were still Good guys  .

 

- I guess you meant 'Sanskrit speakers'    accepted other s as part of their culture if they displayed the same cultural traits or adaptations  (like language ) ? 

 

Thats the idea I had about 'Aryans' , not genetic at all .   A sharing of certain cultural components .

 

And interestingly enough,  ( according to pre-historic sources )  when  certain cultural differences  ( variation in belief, ceremony and mores and taboos ) arose, that caused , perhaps , a split between the PIE (speakers - ie those that shared a language, even if it was just a trade language )  peoples into   who became the   'Vedic people' and the 'Avestan people' .  resulting in t= what the Iranian branch termed  'The Great War of  Religion ' 

 

 

yes, this war is in the vedas too ... but it seems to be described differently  ( of course ! ). 

 

I have also discussed this with Indian historians ... it git bogged down with localities, meanings, times,  names of rivers, changing rivers , arguments about what Sanskrit terms meant , Indian experts throwing the  copies of the  Vedas at each other . 

Its on 'Historium forum'   ... I deoart when it goes into pages of complex Sanskrit analysis  and arguments and cross reference abut terms and misunderstandings    .....   sigh .

[Brian]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

My God !  

 

Someone bought up the original subject of this post !     Thats right !   Thats what all this was supposed to have been about ! 

It was an accident -- won't happen again.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Brian

[Wu Ming Jen]

Chinese bone Inscriptions related how prosperous the Shang Dynasty  was and how people spent their time, which all corroborate what the later historians wrote. Details like when cities were built, land cleared, businesses started, crops planted, types of animals/objects sold, places traveled to, areas traded with, marriages arranged, taxes paid, taxes raised, taxes not lowered, astronomical events, and the activities of the emperor's court such as specific hunting trips, tours of the kingdom, and appointments to positions all are recorded on the oracle bones.

Even though many of these artifacts were ground up and destroyed for the placebo known as dragon's bones, there were thousands more discovered, deciphered, and preserved. These oracle bones tell the stories of the people who lived in China over two thousand years ago and, like all historical artifacts, show that these ancient people were not really all that different from those living today. 

 

Ox shoulder blades and tortoise shells we all the rage for chinese bones, ground up it was used like aspirin is today (dragon bones) After The Shang dynasty the I Ching became popular as it is today.

 

The oracle bones were important finds relating to Chinese writing and history. The inscriptions are early Chinese script which is recognizable as a written language. These inscriptions are priceless to historians because they record the questions and answers people had about their lives,  

 

Today as in many yesterdays ago white people lived in china. 

[voidisyinyang]

7 hours ago, Marblehead said:

You done good.  No obscenely large fonts.

 

The reason Germanic appears so late is because we remained well hidden.

 

 

I posted earlier in this thread that the German language is 30% non-Indo-European.

 

So when they say "Germanic" they don't really mean German language as a whole, nor the German people as a whole.

 

Sorry if that was confusing to you.

 

But then people (i.e. the OP) tend to project "Aryan" onto Indo-European as well - which I think you picked up.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

5 hours ago, Apech said:

 

It does!

 

Actually I read somewhere that the Vedic people distinguished on language and included Dravidians provided they spoke Sanskrit (or a Prakrit presumably).  I don't think these distinction are ethnic so much as cultural.

 

 

 

Yeah I'm sure you read that somewhere but have you read the latest DNA research?

 

 

Quote

 

New Genetic Study on Skin-Color Gene Confirms Aryan Ancestry in ...

marchofthetitans.com/.../new-genetic-study-on-skin-color-gene-confirms-aryan-ances...

Nov 24, 2013 - A new genetic study on skin-color causing genes has confirmed that ... that the lighter skin of many inhabitants of northern Indian is the result of ... It was these European “Aryans” who set up the caste system, a form of racial segregation, ... The Aryan invasion of India was confirmed by Y Chromosome DNA ...

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Then I would presume you mean also those nasty  'Asuras' that fell from grace  and became the   ' Good Guys' of the Iranians  ... they were 'people of the Vedas'. 

 

Unless you meant the early Vedas ... where they were still Good guys  .

 

- I guess you meant 'Sanskrit speakers'    accepted other s as part of their culture if they displayed the same cultural traits or adaptations  (like language ) ? 

 

Thats the idea I had about 'Aryans' , not genetic at all .   A sharing of certain cultural components .

 

And interestingly enough,  ( according to pre-historic sources )  when  certain cultural differences  ( variation in belief, ceremony and mores and taboos ) arose, that caused , perhaps , a split between the PIE (speakers - ie those that shared a language, even if it was just a trade language )  peoples into   who became the   'Vedic people' and the 'Avestan people' .  resulting in t= what the Iranian branch termed  'The Great War of  Religion ' 

 

 

yes, this war is in the vedas too ... but it seems to be described differently  ( of course ! ). 

 

I have also discussed this with Indian historians ... it git bogged down with localities, meanings, times,  names of rivers, changing rivers , arguments about what Sanskrit terms meant , Indian experts throwing the  copies of the  Vedas at each other . 

Its on 'Historium forum'   ... I deoart when it goes into pages of complex Sanskrit analysis  and arguments and cross reference abut terms and misunderstandings    .....   sigh .

 

No need to sigh.

 

https://bmcgenet.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2156-15-86

 

Quote

The discovery that the region carrying SLC24A5 is positively selected in north Gujarati Indians but not in south Tamil Indians may actually provide the first molecular evidence to support the belief of sexual selection, where members of most Indian societies have the tendency to prefer partners with fairer skin complexion [28]. Traditional upper castes from north India tend to be Indo-Aryan language speakers and are associated with fairer skin complexion, and there tended to be little vertical inter-caste marriages [28]. This would agree with previous reports of north-western Indians and those from upper castes across India having a greater degree of genetic similarity to that present in central and west Asia, as well as parts of Europe [1, 3, 29, 30], despite these reports having relied on far lesser amount of data from chromosome Y or mitochondrial DNA.

 

Aryans are not some "language cultural" club that anyone can join.

 

You gotta be "pure" right? that's what Aryan means correct? haha.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4949479/

 

The super-tree based on culture and language.

Edited July 17, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[voidisyinyang]

6 hours ago, Apech said:

 

It does!

 

Actually I read somewhere that the Vedic people distinguished on language and included Dravidians provided they spoke Sanskrit (or a Prakrit presumably).  I don't think these distinction are ethnic so much as cultural.

 

 

 

Quote

We have provided evidence that gene flow abruptly ended with the defining imposition of some social values and norms. The reign of ardent Hindu Gupta rulers, known as the age of Vedic Brahmanism, was marked by strictures laid down in Dharmasastra,  the ancient compendium of moral laws and principles for religious duty and righteous conduct to be followed by a Hindu, and enforced through the powerful state machinery of a developing political economy.

 

Quote

These strictures and enforcements resulted in a shift to endogamy.

 

 

Quote

 

Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India ...

www.pnas.org/content/113/6/1594.full.pdf

by A Basu - ‎2016 - ‎Cited by 26 - ‎Related articles

Feb 9, 2016 - among upper castes and Indo-European speakers predominantly. This estimated time ... Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and Ancestral South Indian (ASI). (9, 10). ... and anthropometric (15) as well as genetic studies (6, 16), indicate major waves of ...... Kuiper PBJ, ed (1991) Aryans in the Rigveda. Leiden ...

 

 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Brian said:

It was an accident -- won't happen again.

 

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Thats the idea I had about 'Aryans' , not genetic at all .   A sharing of certain cultural components .

 

 

 

Quote

The upper caste has been shown to demonstrate significantly higher ANI ancestry in comparison to lower castes from the same geographic region suggesting a relationship between the history of caste-formation and admixture among ancestral components (Reich et al. 2009).

https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/8/11/3460/2680038/Population-Stratification-and-Underrepresentation

Quote

The upper caste populations of India generally follow a stricter endogamy (Khan et al. 2007; Basu et al. 2016).

Bamshad M , et al.  . 2001 .

Genetic evidence on the origins of Indian caste populations Genome Res. 11: 994–1004

 

Zerjal T , et al.  .2007 .

Y-chromosomal insights into the genetic impact of the caste system in India

.

Hum Genet. 121: 137– 144

 

 

Quote

 

The genetics of caste

New genetic evidence for the origins of castes indicates that the upper castes are more European than Asian.

R. RAMACHANDRAN

THE caste-based social hierarchy is deeply entrenched in Indian society even today, but the origins of the system as sociologists and historians now understand, remain an enigma. It certainly goes as far back as the second millennium B.C. when the Aryans, the migrating Indo-Iranian or Indo-European people, entered the country from the northwest and drove southward the proto-Asian and Dravidic speaking populations inhabiting the north. Literary evidence for the stratification of the society, at least in terms of references to the duties of the highest caste, namely the Brahmin, exists in the oldest text of the land, namely the Rig Veda (1500-1200 B.C.). The emergence of the caste system is thus associated with the arrival of the Aryans.

 

In exercising their superiority over native proto-Asian populations, the Aryans would have appointed themselves to higher rank castes.

 

 

http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl1812/18120840.htm

 

Front emphasis of "bold plus italics and increase in size" is not in original.

 

 

[Nungali]

So  ....    you are  still adding large font ... continually  ....   yourself  then  ? 

 

  

 

 

[Nungali]

The people that  came to prominence in India to which the caste system is first attributed , relate to that division of people  that I earlier spoke of ...  remember the quote from Indra ... the warmonger ... the 1000 testicled on , on testosterone overload and cranked up with speed   ( Soma  ... ephedra  and other  stuff )   . 

 

While the associated quote from  the 'Asura '  ( a 'God'  from an earlier stage before the conflict  between the people who would become "Indians'  and 'Iranians ' )  is totally different  and from a variant tradition .   They were about 'Good Kingship' for the people . I also posted the very different forms of what their original 'vara'  ( groupings , enclosures or ' holding together ' ) were  and how they differed and the 'Indic form'  was more controlling and domineering , especially over woman (and yes, it could have been 'racial' as well . 

 

Its all back there and already been gone through extensively .  The Indian branch did what they did in india , and the wiki entry on caste system ( from an  Indian perspective, they all are !  * )  notes its connection with 'kingship' .

 

[ * central asia is forgotten as a place of developing civilisation , the Avestas are rarely cited when other scriptural records are and most religious  discussions , even historical ones , hardly mention Zoroastrianism .... if it wasnt for the BIble account of  the jews being freed and how great a King Cyrus was ....  we might not have known for centuries . ]

 

Cyrus practiced Good kingship , caste was not implemented - 'vara' was , that is, a professional 'guild system', women were much more equal ( and I have posted on this elsewhere too ), all peoples including women can be initiated and wear the red thread,   etc etc .  all back there a few pages .  Cyrus allowed others in, created a huge Empire of many different types, supported the other religions and  temple building  (ie other cultures )  and released the Jews and sent them back with  money goods treasure guards and stuff to  rebuild the temple his predecessors destroyed .

 

So yes ,   the contingent of war like people that spoke PIE and   moved into India and established their way there may have been as you  described above .. and the caste system may be that  ( but I recommend reading up on  all the influences  since then - especially the British one , which made it really bad .  But later developments in 'Persia' seemed much more ' liberal '  and based on the principles pf "good Kingship' from the Avestas .   ( and yes I do realise there were times when both HIndus and Zoroastrians were good and bad , but I am not talking about that )

 

But this is hardly indicative of all the peoples that  have been referred to as 'Aryans ' . 

 

( One interesting thing is,  after the Muslim invasion of Iran and much persecution , the Hindus and other Indians were the people that gave the Zoroastrians refuge , and some still survive today as  ' Parsee '  .  )

 

Voidisyinyang ;   try to read the words carefully , I spent extra time choosing them for very specific reasons so as to NOT cause confusion  .   If it is unclear I am happy to explain any points . 

 

 

But please  refrain from calling me a Natzi in super big type  ( point 7 type may be acceptable )  . 

 

 

 

So yes, the people that came into India

Edited July 17, 2017 by Nungali

[voidisyinyang]

17 minutes ago, Nungali said:

The people that  came to prominence in India to which the caste system is first attributed , relate to that division of people  that I earlier spoke of ...  remember the quote from Indra ... the warmonger ... the 1000 testicled on , on testosterone overload and cranked up with speed   ( Soma  ... ephedra  and other  stuff )   . 

 

While the associated quote from  the 'Asura '  ( a 'God'  from an earlier stage before the conflict  between the people who would become "Indians'  and 'Iranians ' )  is totally different  and from a variant tradition .   They were about 'Good Kingship' for the people . I also posted the very different forms of what their original 'vara'  ( groupings , enclosures or ' holding together ' ) were  and how they differed and the 'Indic form'  was more controlling and domineering , especially over woman (and yes, it could have been 'racial' as well . 

 

Its all back there and already been gone through extensively .  The Indian branch did what they did in india , and the wiki entry on caste system ( from an  Indian perspective, they all are !  * )  notes its connection with 'kingship' .

 

[ * central asia is forgotten as a place of developing civilisation , the Avestas are rarely cited when other scriptural records are and most religious  discussions , even historical ones , hardly mention Zoroastrianism .... if it wasnt for the BIble account of  the jews being freed and how great a King Cyrus was ....  we might not have known for centuries . ]

 

Cyrus practiced Good kingship , caste was not implemented - 'vara' was , that is, a professional 'guild system', women were much more equal ( and I have posted on this elsewhere too ), all peoples including women can be initiated and wear the red thread,   etc etc .  all back there a few pages .  Cyrus allowed others in, created a huge Empire of many different types, supported the other religions and  temple building  (ie other cultures )  and released the Jews and sent them back with  money goods treasure guards and stuff to  rebuild the temple his predecessors destroyed .

 

So yes ,   the contingent of war like people that spoke PIE and   moved into India and established their way there may have been as you  described above .. and the caste system may be that  ( but I recommend reading up on  all the influences  since then - especially the British one , which made it really bad .  But later developments in 'Persia' seemed much more ' liberal '  and based on the principles pf "good Kingship' from the Avestas .   ( and yes I do realise there were times when both HIndus and Zoroastrians were good and bad , but I am not talking about that )

 

But this is hardly indicative of all the peoples that  have been referred to as 'Aryans ' . 

 

( One interesting thing is,  after the Muslim invasion of Iran and much persecution , the Hindus and other Indians were the people that gave the Zoroastrians refuge , and some still survive today as  ' Parsee '  .  )

 

Voidisyinyang ;   try to read the words carefully , I spent extra time choosing them for very specific reasons so as to NOT cause confusion  .   If it is unclear I am happy to explain any points . 

 

 

But please  refrain from calling me a Natzi in super big type  ( point 7 type may be acceptable )  . 

 

 

 

So yes, the people that came into India

 

 

O.k. - you don't have any evidence in your post.

 

So to be sympathetic to your opinion I googled

 

cyrus women rights empire

 

This is the first hit I got:

Quote

 

"It has become a very celebrated document," he said, "but Cyrus himself ordered it done, trying to make himself appear righteous. The real king was not more or less brutal than other ancient kings of the near east, like Xerxes, but he was cleverer."

In the UK, author and historian Tom Holland, who wrote about the rise of Cyrus in his book Persian Fire, joined the condemnation of the cylinder as a model text enshrining human rights.

"It's nonsense, absolute nonsense," he said. "The ancient Persians were not some early form of Swedish Social Democrats."

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/2420263/Cyrus-cylinders-ancient-bill-of-rights-is-just-propaganda.html

 

So now its your turn to provide some evidence.

 

Please keep in mind your "heritage institute" website has made 2 prominent errors that I've exposed - and did not correct the first error properly.

 

But if you want to keep using the "heritage institute" pan-aryanism website - go for it and we'll see where the evidence takes us.

 

 

[Marblehead]

I think the entire study is flawed.  Can we start over again?

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

Maybe, just maybe the idealist mentality of a superior race or of the belief of two worlds one higher and one lower is the creation of caste system.

 

The mentality is still present today so we created all this stuff today and trace it back to the beginning always knowing where such things come from......ourselves.

.

[Marblehead]

2 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

Maybe, just maybe the idealist mentality of a superior race or of the belief of two worlds one higher and one lower is the creation of caste system.

I try to avoid mention of a superior race or associated bullshit.  That is nothing less than ego talking.  The differences between various geological areas and their climates and resources has much to do with the development of a peoples.

 

2 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

 

The mentality is still present today so we created all this stuff today and trace it back to the beginning always knowing where such things come from......ourselves.

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But then, I think that tracing bones using the development of languages is flawed.  Trace languages with languages and bones with bones.

 

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

I agree and have no respect for beliefs that harm humanity.,

 

I have bones and speak a language so I am doing alright. 

[Apech]

I was looking for where I picked up the idea that Vedic culture was language based/cultural and not ethnic and found this - which does not address the point but is quite interesting:

 

Quote

 

But, more importantly, the Sanskrit of the Rig Veda absorbed retroflex consonants such as ḍ, ṭ, ṇ, ḷ, ṛ and possibly ṣ from the Dravidian languages that were in the vicinity of Sanskrit speakers in North Western and Northern India, at the same time. Furthermore, in syntax (the order in which words are arranged in a sentence) Sanskrit is completely Dravidian, this is totally unlike any of its Indo-European (IE) sister languages. Later, the influence from Dravidian also forced major modifications in the Prakrit dialects, making them move close to Dravidian tongues than to Indo-European. Retroflexes do not exist in any other IE languages. They do not even exist in places such as Iran, Afghanistan etc., they should, if, anywhere at all. They are a unique linguistic feature of the Indian Subcontinent.

 

All of this points to a history, where, even in the time of the composition of the Rig Veda, very large numbers of Dravidian speakers, who were present in the same vicinity, adopted one of many Indo-Aryan dialects that co-existed them. Linguists attribute the above linguistic changes to effects of L1 speakers (Language 1 = Mother Tongue) having on L2 (Language 2 = Second Language). It is down to historians to fathom out how and why L1 speakers gave up their mother tongue(s) and adopted an Indo-Aryan L2. This also proves beyond doubt, the direction of the flow Aryans, as into India and not out!

 

https://www.quora.com/Does-Rig-Veda-have-Tamil-words