Acceptance

[Mig]

As I keep reading the DDJ and trying reading other Daoist texts, I wonder if someone has to say about "acceptance". It is true that death is a fact to accept whether we like it or not. Other facts, we can accept but some others as injustice is something I am pondering and have hard time to accept. Many people have been exploited for hundred years and still suffer from oppression. In some cases I would say is injustice but I don't accept. What's your take on this personally and from a Daoist perspective?

[thelerner]

Pick your fights in this world.  Do what you can, but also don't cripple yourself.  Stare too long into the black poisons of the world and you twist your own soul and ruin your own life.  The darkness is not the whole picture.  There's a thousand good things going on every day, maybe every moment.  We have to train ourselves to notice and celebrate those too.  That's where your energy will come from.  That is what will grow our spirit.

 

Do what you can to fix the world.  Little bits, from smiles, to charity..  Do something, not mental masturbation of suffering and complaining, rather do something constructive, with real results.  Karma yoga, helping others.  You fight injustice by making the world a better place. 

 

In the West we're fed a diet of macho violence as cure all.   It's a tool to keep in one's bag, but not a good one.  Movies end with the hero walking off, but real life violence doesn't end so easily.  Destruction is easy.  Like knocking over a dominoes and you never know where they'll stop.  Building is hard.  Patience is hard but that's how things grow. 

 

Daoism- follow nature.  Want to learn how to deal with injustice, learn to garden.  There are lessons there in patience and planning; caring and pruning.   Be skillful and prepared- Accept the soil and improve it.  Accept the drought and water.   Plant seeds where they will thrive.  Grow fruits for energy, vegetables for strength, and flowers for the ladies.  That's the Dao.. to me.   

[Marblehead]

I opt for acknowledgement rather than acceptance.  There are some things I simply will not accept.

 

[Stosh]

What does you not accepting injustice in the world ,look like? Most of the time it will probably look a lot like ,you ,,,Not !  accepting injustice in the world. Except ! You get to be angry, prepare for arguments that wont happen. 

You will sit on your ass, not do anything but stew over it. Those infinitely rare times, when you can fix things,, Please ! go ahead see if you can! but.... Look at the dudes arguing about Trump, Do you think their opinions are going to depose a sitting president? No they will not. , its a "hardball" game of , "Lets pretend... " 

People pretend its important to watch the news, blah blah blah, and it doesnt help at all , to be trying to spoil their fun. 

I think , in some Daoist works, we are given reasons to examine the validity of certain paradigms, , and one of thse is self destructive righteousness. So while it doesnt tell you not to get worked up, you should see the logic of being equinanimous about esoteric stuff, so you can concentrate on enriching behavior. 

[Mig]

On 7/3/2017 at 11:08 PM, thelerner said:

Pick your fights in this world.  Do what you can, but also don't cripple yourself.  Stare too long into the black poisons of the world and you twist your own soul and ruin your own life.  The darkness is not the whole picture.  There's a thousand good things going on every day, maybe every moment.  We have to train ourselves to notice and celebrate those too.  That's where you energy will come from.  That is what will grow our spirit.

 

Do what you can to fix the world.  Little bits, from smiles, to charity..  Do something, not mental masturbation of suffering and complaining, rather do something constructive, with real results.  Karma yoga, helping others.  You fight injustice by making the world a better place. 

 

In the West we're fed a diet of macho violence as cure all.   It's a tool to keep in one's bag, but not a good one.  Movies end with the hero walking off, but real life violence doesn't end so easily.  Destruction is easy.  Like knocking over a dominoes and you never know where they'll stop.  Building is hard.  Patience is hard but that's how things grow. 

 

Daoism- follow nature.  Want to learn how to deal with injustice, learn to garden.  There are lessons there in patience and planning; caring and pruning.   Be skillful and prepared- Accept the soil and improve it.  Accept the drought and water.   Plant seeds where they will thrive.  Grow fruits for energy, vegetables for strength, and flowers for the ladies.  That's the Dao.. to me.   

Interesting perspective and I appreciate your general input. Indeed, picking fights was one of the hardest issue I had in the past. The problem about black poisons, I feel that we are also responsible of what's going on as we contribute one way or another in this world. At the higher level, as individual, there is little we can do unless we have power at all levels, if not all is left is control what I can control. At the personal level, acceptance of what's going on in your world, I find that we are responsible of our actions and its consequences. On a different level, accept someone who hates me is not my style, I ignore them and move on in my life except that if you have to deal with them is not as easy thus no acceptance, i.e. ex in a bitter divorce.

 

[Mig]

On 7/4/2017 at 1:47 PM, Stosh said:

What does you not accepting injustice in the world ,look like? Most of the time it will probably look a lot like ,you ,,,Not !  accepting injustice in the world. Except ! You get to be angry, prepare for arguments that wont happen. 

You will sit on your ass, not do anything but stew over it. Those infinitely rare times, when you can fix things,, Please ! go ahead see if you can! but.... Look at the dudes arguing about Trump, Do you think their opinions are going to depose a sitting president? No they will not. , its a "hardball" game of , "Lets pretend... " 

People pretend its important to watch the news, blah blah blah, and it doesnt help at all , to be trying to spoil their fun. 

I think , in some Daoist works, we are given reasons to examine the validity of certain paradigms, , and one of thse is self destructive righteousness. So while it doesnt tell you not to get worked up, you should see the logic of being equinanimous about esoteric stuff, so you can concentrate on enriching behavior. 

So for you acceptance is all the same at the community (world) level as well as at the individual level (your personal fights for your rights for example)

[Stosh]

4 minutes ago, Mig said:

So for you acceptance is all the same at the community (world) level as well as at the individual level (your personal fights for your rights for example)

Dunno, I have to consider that, real international relations is not an exact replicate of individual social institutions , I was aiming at the self inflammatory nature of getting bent out of shape over things that really aren't in your purview.  As a guy once said ,( tongue in cheek) , "I sure am glad I thought THAT about That guy !"

[doc benway]

On 7/4/2017 at 1:46 AM, Mig said:

As I keep reading the DDJ and trying reading other Daoist texts, I wonder if someone has to say about "acceptance". It is true that death is a fact to accept whether we like it or not. Other facts, we can accept but some others as injustice is something I am pondering and have hard time to accept. Many people have been exploited for hundred years and still suffer from oppression. In some cases I would say is injustice but I don't accept. What's your take on this personally and from a Daoist perspective?

 

I think it is important to look carefully at what is meant by the word acceptance.

 

There are wonderful and terrible things in our world.

Despite tens of thousands of years of human evolution we remain selfish, greedy, and ignorant as to who and what we are and our relationship with each other and our environment. Technology and sophistication have permitted us to become more and more distanced and estranged from the natural world and continue to twist and distort our hearts and minds.

This is fact.

 

We can accept these facts or we can punish ourselves because the world is not what we think it should be.

What we think it should be is a reflection of who we are: our expectations, desires, and preferences - our conditioning.

These expectations do not exist in the world, they only exist in us as individuals and collectively as a society.

This is what one meaning of chapter 5 of the DDJ when it speaks of the Dao and straw dogs. 

 

To me, acceptance is the realization that things are as they are, not necessarily as I would prefer them to be.

Acceptance is to avoid over-identification with the thoughts and conditioning that would prefer things to be different. 

Those thoughts and feelings are natural and normal but we create problems when we over-identify with the judge.

 

Acceptance does not mean forced inaction or approval. 

I accept that things are a certain way and I am always free to take action and attempt to change things as I see fit. 

If I am unsuccessful in my efforts, then I once again have the option to accept that as the fact that it is, or to punish myself with worry, anger, and frustration because things are not the way my conditioning tells me they should be. 

 

Acceptance is deeply related to wu wei.

Just as wu wei does not mean inaction, neither does acceptance.

That very drive to change something is the Dao working through me as its agent, just as the actions of every living creature is the Dao working with their particular characteristics as its tool.

 

We are not here to do nothing with our precious lives. 

It is important, however, to know where our drive and actions are coming from.

If they are coming from a lifetime of conditioning and ignorance, anger and selfishness, they are more likely to add to the mess. If they are coming from the openness of a deep connection to our innermost awareness and to a connection and respect for the natural world around us, they are more likely to be of benefit and in accordance with the Way.

 

Depending on one's conditioning, acceptance can also be seen as a form of trust.

Trust is also related to wu wei.

We trust that the Way of things is as it is and that we are an integral part of that Way.

When we act with that sort of trust and we are able to get our personal baggage out of the way, we are no longer interfering with the natural flow and yet we can be fully engaged and active in the process.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[silent thunder]

Acceptance to me has levels. 

 

I accept that the conditions of the world are as they are...

 

Acceptance also means sometimes accepting that I will act to alter conditions as they are because I do not tolerate certain conditions as they exist and I accept that I have the means to alter them... so I do.

 

Then in either case... act or not. 

 

I let that shit go.

 

release and accept.

 

Marblehead offered another take on it when I mentioned it a while back.  Acknowledgement rather than acceptance. 

That works just as well for me.

 

But the quix of it is, even when I accept some things, I don't necessarily tolerate them.  I accept that I may be the means of change on occasion.