Zen Meditation

[CedarTree]

Does anyone practice Zazen and in particular the style closely resembling Shikantaza ("nothing but precisely sitting")?

 

This is a method of practice that lineages like the famous Soto Zen tradition of Kōdō Sawaki & Kōshō Uchiyama are famous for.  Famous monasteries and training locations like Antai-ji, Gyobutsuji Zen Monastery, and Sanshin Zen Community all belong to this school.

 

I would be interested to know how Daoists approach and view this practice in their own words.  Then if some are interested I`d love to dialogue a bit about on it

 

 

[roger]

I do three kinds of meditation.

 

One is what I call non-meditation. The teaching for that is: no effort, no technique. It's like the 'just be' meditation, where you just sit there and innocently and effortlessly be.

 

The other two techniques I use are mindfulness of breathing, and choiceless awareness, the way Krishnamurti taught it.

 

Non-meditation and mindfulness of breathing are both used in Zen and could be considered Zazen.

 

I meditate with my eyes closed, sit however is comfortable (not with my back straight), and don't try to be still, as I find it more effective to allow physical movement.

 

[Miffymog]

I used to practice 'Silent Illumination' based on the work of Master Hongzhi and transmitted to the west by Master Sheng Yen. It's very similar to Shikantaza and when I took up Zhan Zhuang, my aim was simply to take the 'Silent Illumination' meditative state of mind over into a  standing meditation. I could then combine the benefits of meditation along with benefits of stance training.

 

I have to admit, I'm still not sure where I am in terms of this transition. If I were seated and took a 'Silent Illumination' state into a 'sitting and forgetting' state that is sometimes described in Daoism, I think I could achieve this with some success. Although how much change there would be between the two I can't really say.

 

However, with standing, the mental state is quite different from a sitting. I've read a few times that ZZ is not a meditation and that you should just let your mind wonder if it wants to so this is what I do. If my mind finds itself settling down then it is definitely nearing a 'Silent Illumination' state, but it is not my aim and these periods are relatively infrequent.

 

One of the differences for me is that sometimes while sat in Zazen, there can be a tendency for there to be a lot of energy in the head. Now, I don't feel this is an actual aim of the meditation, more something that can happen as a consequence of it. Where as with ZZ, arguably there is an aim for energy to descend as much as possible.

 

Ultimately I tend to agree with something that one of the posters Spotless often says - and that is to try to avoid trance like states in meditation, which means you are then more truly present i.e. each second that passes you feel as a whole second that has passed.

 

There are some thoughts on the topic

[Stonehouse]

 

On 7/4/2017 at 7:38 PM, CedarTree said:

Does anyone practice Zazen and in particular the style closely resembling Shikantaza ("nothing but precisely sitting")?

 

Hi Cedartree, 

I am a formal student of the Soto School, which is primarily defined by our practice of Shikantaza. I'm not a transmitted teacher, however, just to be clear. 

If you have any questions please feel free to ask. 

In my own words - the Way is all pervasive, it cannot be faced or turned away from. It is fully actualized in each moment. That being said, the Way is not manifested without practice, not attained without realization. This being the case, attentiveness to the experience of being alive here and now is being attentive to the complete manifestation of the Way. If one person for even one moment practices attentiveness in correct upright posture, this practice includes all beings and permeates all time. 

Enlightenment is not elsewhere or somewhere in the future. It is within you, right now, and fully manifested when you devote yourself even for a moment to the Way, which is not other than the direct experience of your life right now. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Stonehouse

[rene]

On 07/27/2017 at 9:17 AM, Stonehouse said:

 

Hi Cedartree, 

I am a formal student of the Soto School, which is primarily defined by our practice of Shikantaza. I'm not a transmitted teacher, however, just to be clear. 

If you have any questions please feel free to ask. 

In my own words - the Way is all pervasive, it cannot be faced or turned away from. It is fully actualized in each moment. That being said, the Way is not manifested without practice, not attained without realization. This being the case, attentiveness to the experience of being alive here and now is being attentive to the complete manifestation of the Way. If one person for even one moment practices attentiveness in correct upright posture, this practice includes all beings and permeates all time. 

Enlightenment is not elsewhere or somewhere in the future. It is within you, right now, and fully manifested when you devote yourself even for a moment to the Way, which is not other than the direct experience of your life right now. 

 

Well said!

Belated welcome and warm greetings (-:

[NordaVinci]

[Comments on Meditation]

"Refuge from thought" is a little misleading I think. Thoughts are not a problem if you don't pay attention to them. Thoughts arise many times due to the evil vibrations of the street you might be walking on due to the bad things that happened there, for example.

 

Also nature has a cleaning process by which thoughts arise in order to be cleaned out, like the dust that gets in the air when you sweep the floor.

 

Heart has to be cleaned too, otherwise the same issue comes around again and again like the scratch on a record on the record player.

 

The Buddhist version of enlightenment in my opinion is having an experience of the Central Region, which can be described the way Father describes it in Unification Thought as the Inner Identity Maintaining Four Position Foundation Centering on Heart, which never changes or develops because it is the already the highest.

This is the root of God, from which God developed and grew up and then created.

Buddha, in other words, skipped the God of Personality and had an experience of the Root of God.

 

Here's Rev. Sun Myung Moon (Matreya Buddha) describing something similar from the 1950's:

 

Have you ever asked your minds where their original homeland is? Try and see. History has progressed and cultures have advanced. External environments have evolved and advanced to a certain degree according to culture or human intelligence. However, the world of the heart has remained unchanged. This world of the heart does not experience revolutions or progress; it is inherently eternal and unchanging. When you have a certain sense of purpose and set a clear goal, you will run limitlessly. When the needle of a compass is lined up to the north and south poles, there is no way to turn it unless you apply a force stronger than the force pulling the needle to the poles. Likewise, the world of the conscience cannot be moved. The function of the mind which cannot be moved lies in the realm of ideology. When a clear sense of purpose is set for the mind, you can certainly cause an action that can pull every cell and every emotion.

 

Then the problem is simple. No matter how great the function of the mind may be, it cannot be more effective than the level the person has reached. Do you understand? It cannot make a greater impact than the state the person has attained. Even though it stands in the position of a subject partner, it cannot be much more effective. Because the mind stands in the reciprocal position to control the body, it cannot function outside of the reciprocal relationship.

 

For this reason there are gaps among consciences. Although they have many kinds of differences, each conscience is somehow oriented towards the original nature. A system of thought and beliefs emerges to secure the direction of the conscience. A view of life or the universe, some doctrine, assertion or truth appears. It is a perfected entity which has a reciprocal nature. When there is a perfect minus, we can have some understanding of a perfect plus. When there is a perfect plus, we can establish a perfect minus. This is a natural phenomenon. Since there is an eternal, unchanging and perfect subject partner in Heaven, we must strive through our hearts to resemble Him and establish a common base with Him.

 

God cannot shift the standard of the heart at whim. It can be moved only in harmony with the body. We have to control our body, put it in a certain situation, and align the orientation of the heart with the laws of the universe. God wants such laws of truth to be established. If a truth appears which can link the world together and join it with the principles of Heaven, the conscience can expand outward without limits and be active.

 

This is the reason human beings have sought truth. However, in the civilized world, which prides itself on twentieth-century culture, we have not seen the emergence of a truth which encourages us to establish a natural common base with the infinite absolute being whom we want to seek from the depth of our hearts. For this reason human beings have not been able to transcend the grief of the Fall.

 

Thus, you have to understand that God has suffered many sorrows which He encountered in His work as He tried to instruct human beings in various ways and to connect them to the one purpose. How laborious must God's path have been as He was walking our path of escape through which we can find the direction of the truth in our lives? When we discuss all the sad hearts and miserable situations in human history, you many think that human history has been a fearsome experience. However, you have to understand that for the guide of that history, a more fearsome battle is taking place even at this moment. Without such struggles, incredibly miserable events will unfold which will prevent you from sleeping peacefully at night.

 

Since the mind is the beginning and end and can connect to the spirit and the original self, until the moment all sorrows are erased and we are liberated from them eternally, the mind will stimulate the same feeling of sadness. This is what you have to feel. Since human beings caused this sorrow, human beings connected us to that sorrow and prolonged it, it is only natural that judgment is given to human beings.

https://tparents.org/Moon-Talks/SunMyungMoon59/SunMyungMoon-590906.htm