[DDJ Meaning] Chapter 16

[Stosh]

Constancy , is their way of saying its dependable.

 For instance , we have natural laws like gravity , which never fail , and therefore they are constant.

 If one made an argument and it held true , no-matter what conditions were used to test it out , they would say that its constant.

 In western cross examination of a process for testing where we look for 'holes' in the argument.

They are saying that there are no holes in the argument so it is  constant . So ...

The  Wisdom of Dao  is eternal , and objective , not transient or subjective. 

[rideforever]

Discussions of the technical or presumed or conceptual meaning of these things is not really what spirituality is about.   That is just taking the mind for a walk.
To enter the state from where you see what Laozi then you have to enter the same awakened state as his.
Otherwise it is just mind fluff that will not last, the mind plays with many ideas, whilst the being does not know.
Looking at this picture we see Laozi, how he sits and melts into the Earth - from the Dantien.
In meditating this way not only do you see the things described in the TTC, but you also develop that centre and its features - energy, hence the Taoists have additionally cultivated energy practices.

There are people who do not understand the difference and chat in the mind until they die, but never step foot into the right state.

 

 

[Stosh]

5 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Discussions of the technical or presumed or conceptual meaning of these things is not really what spirituality is about.   That is just taking the mind for a walk.
To enter the state from where you see what Laozi then you have to enter the same awakened state as his.
Otherwise it is just mind fluff that will not last, the mind plays with many ideas, whilst the being does not know.
Looking at this picture we see Laozi, how he sits and melts into the Earth - from the Dantien.
In meditating this way not only do you see the things described in the TTC, but you also develop that centre and its features - energy, hence the Taoists have additionally cultivated energy practices.

There are people who do not understand the difference and chat in the mind until they die, but never step foot into the right state.

 

 

 

Perhaps , but there has long been an understood dichotomy between Daojia and daojiao. To me, the fluff is suggesting people need to learn how to melt , by osmosis. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Stosh

[rideforever]

Neither religious understanding nor conceptual understanding .... involves changing state.   

Those two are all nonsense.  More nonsense is imagining that people don't need to change.
Spirituality for most it would seem ... is simply a further entertainment while waiting to die.

And the entertainment is highly guarded, it is safe and gives one the feeling of doing something, whilst doing nothing.

[Stosh]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

Neither religious understanding nor conceptual understanding .... involves changing state.   

Those two are all nonsense.  More nonsense is imagining that people don't need to change.
Spirituality for most it would seem ... is simply a further entertainment while waiting to die.

And the entertainment is highly guarded, it is safe and gives one the feeling of doing something, whilst doing nothing.

What in contrast, is doing something? Changing? to what?

[rideforever]

39 minutes ago, Stosh said:

What in contrast, is doing something? Changing? to what?

For most people, nothing.  They neither arrive, nor do they depart.
The only thing that happens to them is pride in ignorance.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by rideforever

[Stosh]

1 minute ago, rideforever said:

For most people, nothing.  They neither arrive, nor do they depart.
The only thing that happens to them is pride in ignorance.

 

 

If you forgive my bluntness, I don't care about these others right now, I'm just talking with you, Do you need a constant fix of change ? is this 'good' .... I don't think its the eastern view that the real desire is to be at unrest all the time , it is to find real peace. Virtue being , to find rest even as one proceeds through a life. While you do not have to abide by that perspective , I thought it should be delineated. 

Do you want peace ? balance , dynamic equilibrium? or constant change, which if ending at perfection, immediately disintegrates, once you find it.

[rideforever]

23 minutes ago, Stosh said:

I thought it should be delineated. 

 

Your understanding of peace as you describe it here is not that of the TTC, it is of society. 
Society is either busy or withdrawn.   But is all contained within its ignorance. 

Neither business or withdrawal from society demands anything of you at all.
TTC points to a different world, and from that different world different things are seen.

[Stosh]

3 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Your understanding of peace as you describe it here is not that of the TTC, it is of society. 
Society is either busy or withdrawn.   But is all contained within its ignorance. 

Neither business or withdrawal from society demands anything of you at all.
TTC points to a different world, and from that different world different things are seen.

Ok, then what is your idea of peace according to TTC ? 

[rideforever]

In society people are busy or they are calm.
But neither of these is what the TTC or spirituality in general is about.

If you read the word constancy and you try to pick out society something that seems calm ... well that's not what it means.

TTC is written by a being in a state of self-realisation.
Spiritual peace, or in this case constancy, is only possible by a complete change in your being, which is what spirituality is about.

 

[Stosh]

15 hours ago, rideforever said:

Spiritual peace, or in this case constancy,, which is what spirituality is about.

 

This part I can run with , but one cannot do a complete change of their being,  according to TTC you have a basic nature .. um (the term might ziran or po , I don't speak Chinese)

One might be very screwed up , and need a significant overhaul to get in touch with themselves and connect to the world around,, but there is , in each of us a core. 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Stosh

[rideforever]

Yes there is, and the taoist way is to go through nature as a gateway into the internal, from 5 elements, to yin-yang, to the one, to the abyss.  Outward cultivation is only preliminary until you merge with that stage of manifestation, and from their return inwards.
But anyway, people tend to end up in their heads with words, that's my point.

[Stosh]

1 minute ago, rideforever said:

Yes there is, and the taoist way is to go through nature as a gateway into the internal, from 5 elements, to yin-yang, to the one, to the abyss.  Outward cultivation is only preliminary until you merge with that stage of manifestation, and from their return inwards.
But anyway, people tend to end up in their heads with words, that's my point.

Ok , then we can agree on that, good.  

[Rara]

Oookay then...

 

😂

 

So, can I ask - all return to Dao. But better practice stillness so that you reap the benefits in this life, rather than not cultivating and then noticing your life is suddenly over?

[Sketch]

 

• Verse Sixteen

When you go into the empty places

Remain silent and sincere.

All the things in the world, the dancing scorpions and everything else, arise.

Look at them.

The so-called grown up gathers the flowers

And leaves the roots alone

To replenish.

Yes,  return to the pathways of life.

See clearly what is coming; when you don’t know what’s going on,

Things get fierce, and ominous.

Keep learning, keep updating yourself.

The world is open to the public,

So the public is really in charge.

Being  in charge is representing the workings of the universe, 

and the universe  is made of 

how things work out on their own.

Things just keep on going! The trail is long,

but with no shape, no form - is it real?

Which one of the scorpions, which flower is apart from the whole? 

The job of ruling is watching things happen in spite of you. The duty of the ruled is to live as if there were no rulers, or as if their edicts were weather, more or less natural obstacles to overcome.

[awaken]

帛書老子版

 

致虛，極也

守靜，表也

 

Silk Book Lao Tzu Edition

 

Dedicated to the void is extremely

keep quiet is surface

 

帛書甲本的原始文字

 

守靜，表也

 

說得真好

 

The original text of the first edition of the silk book

keep quiet is surface

very well said

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by awaken

[awaken]

萬物『旁』作 vs. 萬物『並』作

 

旁 ＝ 滂

意思是『水勢浩大』

 

並

意思是同時

 

顯然意義被改變很大

 

原來的意義很顯然是

致力於虛，達到極限

守靜，是表面功夫

（致力於虛）則會造成萬物氣勢滂礡

我就觀察其中的反覆之道

 

很明顯這是在講修煉的方法

 

All things happen like the great water vs. All things work at the same time

Beside = Pong

Means "The Great Waters"

and

means at the same time

Apparently the meaning has changed a lot

The original meaning is obviously

Committed to the empty, reaching the limit

Keeping quiet is superficial

(dedicated to emptiness) will cause all things to become imposing

I'm watching the way it goes back and forth

Obviously this is talking about the method of cultivation