The Perils of Meditation

[Maddie]

8 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

Then do standing poses, you won't fall into deep trance.

 

That actually sounds like a pretty good idea. I remember in the past when I tried that for some reason I really hated it though.

[dwai]

23 hours ago, dmattwads said:

I had given up meditation because I began to suspect that it was causing me severe anxiety and insomnia. Last spring I dropped it. Yesterday I decided to try 20-30 minutes. Last night I didn't sleep most the night and was tossing and turning with anxiety and weird thoughts. I have had enough of meditation. Prior to that I had been feeling and sleeping much better. 

What time of the day did you do the meditation? What kind did you try?

 

what you’re describing is a sign of the wind element (vata) imbalance in Ayurveda. Can you describe your practice space? Is it warm, cold, drafty, etc etc.

 

[Maddie]

35 minutes ago, dwai said:

What time of the day did you do the meditation? What kind did you try?

 

what you’re describing is a sign of the wind element (vata) imbalance in Ayurveda. Can you describe your practice space? Is it warm, cold, drafty, etc etc.

 

 

The time and place vary as I would meditate often do many times many places. The places were usually quiet, dim lighting, indoors and the temperature moderate. The type was anapanasati. I would just focus on the breath.

[dwai]

6 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

The time and place vary as I would meditate often do many times many places. The places were usually quiet, dim lighting, indoors and the temperature moderate. The type was anapanasati. I would just focus on the breath.

wrt. the place -- do you mean in your own home, or just anywhere?

Don't do apananasati and try something else instead -- try a zen koan or something like that. If you like, try this one out --

 

Without thinking, try to find out who you are. It sounds silly, but is a very profound practice. 

 

[Maddie]

5 minutes ago, dwai said:

wrt. the place -- do you mean in your own home, or just anywhere?

Don't do apananasati and try something else instead -- try a zen koan or something like that. If you like, try this one out --

 

Without thinking, try to find out who you are. It sounds silly, but is a very profound practice. 

 

 

I would meditate anywhere. Home, at work when it was slow, sometimes the park, the play place at McDonald's (jk). 

 

 Yes I stopped doing it regularly almost a year ago now. 

 

 Pondering what I am is something I actually do often.

[dwai]

15 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

I would meditate anywhere. Home, at work when it was slow, sometimes the park, the play place at McDonald's (jk). 

 

 Yes I stopped doing it regularly almost a year ago now. 

I’d say, make a proper place of practice at home. Be warm and comfortable when you sit. Where we meditate gets charged up spiritually and energetically. There are a lot more variables if you do it just about anywhere — people around, what they’re transmitting, even the location. For example, a place like Central Park in NY is not a good place for meditation — the energy vibrates in a different way there. 

Quote

 

 Pondering what I am is something I actually do often.

the exercise is to do it without thinking  

Edited January 22, 2021 by dwai

[Maddie]

8 minutes ago, dwai said:

I’d say, make a proper place of practice at home.

 

After the lockdown last fall since I had much more free time I began to meditate even more than usual and only at home. It got so bad that, that is when I suspected meditation was not good for me and I stopped it 

[dwai]

2 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

After the lockdown last fall since I had much more free time I began to meditate even more than usual and only at home. It got so bad that, that is when I suspected meditation was not good for me and I stopped it 

Does that happen with the Self-inquiry practice too?

[Maddie]

Just now, dwai said:

Does that happen with the Self-inquiry practice too?

 

The self inquiry like you said wasn't so much an active thinking thing. It would spontaneously happen sometimes during sometimes after meditation.

[Maddie]

Something else I just remembered is now that it's been a couple days and I'm not feeling actively anxious anymore, I feel this odd brain fog and heavy headed.

[Sketch]

A lot of people are experiencing weird stress lately.  This week, a lot of people have turned a kind of emotional corner, feel like they have exhaled for the first time in a few years. 

 

That's stressful too. 

 

This is a time for being gentle with ourselves and each other. 

[forestofclarity]

A lot of people use hard focus on concentration for meditation, which I know can cause a lot of issues. Focus should be soft and open, IME. However, a lot of people blame the esoteric or unusual when often regular life reasons may be to blame. Regular exercise, good sleep, and a proper diet can go a long way. It is hard to tell over the internet which is why is often helps to connect with a live teacher. 

[dwai]

8 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

Something else I just remembered is now that it's been a couple days and I'm not feeling actively anxious anymore, I feel this odd brain fog and heavy headed.

Sounds like classic vata imbalance -- I know you're a TCM person, so there must be an equivalent in TCM as well. Take up taijiquan practice -- it is gentle, energizing, and will give you relief from the contemplative/introspective side of meditation until you are really comfortable with the forms.

 

General Vata description --

https://www.keralaayurveda.us/courses/signs-and-solutions-for-fall-imbalance/

 

Vata psychological impact --

 

https://www.artofliving.org/in-en/ayurveda/ayurvedic-treatments/vata-imbalance-manage

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

Sounds like classic vata imbalance -- I know you're a TCM person, so there must be an equivalent in TCM as well. Take up taijiquan practice -- it is gentle, energizing, and will give you relief from the contemplative/introspective side of meditation until you are really comfortable with the forms.

 

General Vata description --

https://www.keralaayurveda.us/courses/signs-and-solutions-for-fall-imbalance/

 

Vata psychological impact --

 

https://www.artofliving.org/in-en/ayurveda/ayurvedic-treatments/vata-imbalance-manage

 

Yes I feel like my recent accidental meditation and ensuring side effects were a wake-up call. I ordered a whole new set of herbs to deal with this and in the mean time have been doing Acupuncture.

 

In TCM this is called Phlegm affecting the mind.

[Apech]

11 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Yes I feel like my recent accidental meditation and ensuring side effects were a wake-up call. I ordered a whole new set of herbs to deal with this and in the mean time have been doing Acupuncture.

 

In TCM this is called Phlegm affecting the mind.

 

 

Have you considered that this may be a sign of meditation working rather than meditation not working?

 

 

[ilumairen]

On 1/21/2021 at 10:48 AM, dmattwads said:

I had given up meditation because I began to suspect that it was causing me severe anxiety and insomnia. Last spring I dropped it. Yesterday I decided to try 20-30 minutes. Last night I didn't sleep most the night and was tossing and turning with anxiety and weird thoughts. I have had enough of meditation. Prior to that I had been feeling and sleeping much better. 

Hi dmattwads,

 

Some years back, I went through a period such as you describe. It wasn’t so much that the practices were creating anxiety, but opening up and allowing suppressed and previously unexpressed anxieties to surface. At the time I found the fivefold teachings of Dawa Gyaltsen to be beneficial in allowing these things to take their natural course. 
 

Later I took the Dream Yoga course from TWR, and still tend to work with the first location of the throat which (for me) seems to facilitate the necessary balance between clarity and expression.. which probably doesn’t provide you enough information to see the value of this, but it’s one of those “experience it to understand it” kind of things..kind of like when we’re “to far” into the energetic aspects our sleep becomes disturbed. There are ways through this, but I am no teacher.

 

30 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

Something else I just remembered is now that it's been a couple days and I'm not feeling actively anxious anymore, I feel this odd brain fog and heavy headed.

 

I also experienced this, and accidentally discovered that slowly savoring some cool water (and actively maintaining proper hydration, which required increased fluid intake during this time) worked amazingly well regarding the brain fog.

 

Whatever you determine is best for you, you’re in my thoughts, and I wish you much expedience in finding your way.

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

Have you considered that this may be a sign of meditation working rather than meditation not working?

 

 

 

Yes I have considered that but I don't think meditation is helpful if it turns one into a crazy person.

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, ilumairen said:

 

I also experienced this, and accidentally discovered that slowly savoring some cool water (and actively maintaining proper hydration, which required increased fluid intake during this time) worked amazingly well regarding the brain fog.

 

 

It's interesting that you mention this as another thing that happens when I meditate is I have to urinate much more.

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Yes I have considered that but I don't think meditation is helpful if it turns one into a crazy person.

 

Works for me

[ilumairen]

1 minute ago, dmattwads said:

 

Yes I have considered that but I don't think meditation is helpful if it turns one into a crazy person.

Maybe we have to find our way through the madness we’re carrying (sometimes unknowingly) to discover what it is we are “looking for”?

[ilumairen]

2 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

It's interesting that you mention this as another thing that happens when I meditate is I have to urinate much more.

Maybe working with your hydration levels will help a bit then..

[Maddie]

Just now, ilumairen said:

Maybe we have to find our way through the madness we’re carrying (sometimes unknowingly) to discover what it is we are “looking for”?

 

To a point yes, but when it interferes with being functional in life then that is too much.

[Maddie]

Just now, ilumairen said:

Maybe working with your hydration levels will help a bit then..

 

Naturally when this is occurring I drink more fluids.

[ilumairen]

Just now, dmattwads said:

 

Naturally when this is occurring I drink more fluids.

I am sure you do.

 

Once upon a time, I was feeling “yucky.” I went to a doctor, who suspected I may be over hydrated when I explained how much I had been drinking. To his surprise, in spite of my copious fluid intake, I was, in fact, dehydrated.

[Sketch]

I wonder if a more isotonic drink would help here?