I don't deserve life

[Brian]

39 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Exactly - where are they now? Eh?

Hard to say -- either eating those people or being worn as hats or engaged in some sort of circus act?

[Apech]

42 minutes ago, Brian said:

Hard to say -- either eating those people or being worn as hats or engaged in some sort of circus act?

 

Floundering?

[Brian]

6 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Floundering?

Is that what clown fish do?  That thing where they all come spilling out of a car, I guess?

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Brian said:

Is that what clown fish do?  That thing where they all come spilling out of a car, I guess?

 

 

Yes.

[Aaron]

Meditation and practice does not bring worth to one's life, that's a subjective value. If you are practicing and it's exacerbating your emotional state, often it's better to take a break. Practice rarely removes the hardship of life. Before enlightenment we chop wood and carry water, afterwards we chop wood and carry water. Enlightenment does not free us from our obligations of daily life, it only helps us understand the nature of existence. 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Aaron

[Brian]

16 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

Yes.

Then yes, I guess.

 

Based on that bas-relief, it looks like they might need a sturgeon to cut them apart.

[Michael Sternbach]

On 2017-7-6 at 7:28 PM, allinone said:

Went outside to find and eat berries, i noticed a bug on a berry and i took it away as its nothing. Whhyyyyy

 

To try answering this question adequately, it is important to understand where you come from.

 

Are you normally respectful of all sentient beings? Thus avoiding to step on ants, etc.?

 

Or did the episode with the bug make you seriously think about such things for the first time? 

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, phore said:

I was listening to a series of Joseph Campbell lectures recently where he breached the topic of human sacrifice.

 

Basically a large number of primitive societies practiced human sacrifice as part of their varied rituals.  One particular ritual described by Campbell involved choosing the most attractive Girl and Boy during a coming of age ritual.  

 

These two had ritual sex then were both killed.  The sacrifice was witnessed by the adults and the rest of the children-cum-adults participating in the coming-of-age ritual.

 

While this seems cruel and insane to our modern civilized sensibilities, Campbell actually unpacked the meaning of this particular ritual in his lecture.  

 

The basic point was that all life grows, evolves and feeds on forms of life lower in the food chain.  We crush insects beneath our feet as we walk, we kill billions of microorganisms when we bathe, and we kill and eat other life forms to survive (plants and animals).  

 

Our presence in this world is based on cruelty, yet we cling to life because our instincts demand it.  

 

When we chunk up we see that even though each link along the evolutionary chain lives in the wake of the death of others, a sort of meaning evolves.  

 

Life would not be possible without death.  Meaning is possible only when the fullness of life and death can be embraced.  

 

The human sacrifice rituals served as a reminder to ancient societies of this fundamental truth, according to Campbell.  

 

"Killing is lamentable, but necessary."

-Miyamoto Musashi.

 

Maybe it is not about deserving life, but life is a gift that is given and taken freely by the universe.  In this light our redemption is in the meaning that we give to life by the compassion, and love that we show to others.  

 

 

 

Yes, but Jesus ended all that by ....

 

 

 

,,,,,,,         oh   !           

 

[allinone]

6 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

To try answering this question adequately, it is important to understand where you come from.

 

Are you normally respectful of all sentient beings? Thus avoiding to step on ants, etc.?

 

Or did the episode with the bug make you seriously think about such things for the first time? 

 

i tried to explain some in next posts from different angle.

 

deeper actions of ours doesn't change when to use discipline like "oh i decide not to kill, so i deserve now gold or i decide to come vegan" "i am now good person and it affects me so well and positive and now i am protected."

---

i killed a tick with a stone, i have done it a lot. I remove plants etc. And i have very evil thoughts and urges. I also do mercy kills, if i do harm i make sure i have killed it. But now i also test that its wrong to double check, it is my fear of if something happens to me i suffer before i die.

---if i don't check second or many times, it causes me a mental suffering, so i just be with that suffering. And the issue goes away.

--

so as you see good deed, good feelings, bad deed bad feelings. But its impermanent.

Edited July 8, 2017 by allinone

[allinone]

that is if i hear someone say "forgive others" "be positive", then i cringe. Its not that basic, when it comes to real life events where we have to make a choice what is not good or do something unconsciously bad. Then i think if there is deeper layer what i can make finer so these things doesn't happen anymore.

--

its the mind what turns, changes perspective by seeing. And suddenly its different, i feel bad.

---

anyway i just want to understand the third skandha.

Edited July 8, 2017 by allinone

[Marblehead]

31 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

 But its impermanent.

And you and I are impermanent.

 

[allinone]

i think i just got insight to 4th skandha, determination. Its the force what forces me double, triple, etc check.

[allinone]

Just now, Marblehead said:

And you and I are impermanent.

 

 

its said there is no self in skandhas.

[Marblehead]

11 minutes ago, allinone said:

that is if i hear someone say "forgive others" "be positive", then i cringe. Its not that basic, when it comes to real life events where we have to make a choice what is not good or do something unconsciously bad. Then i think if there is deeper layer what i can make finer so these things doesn't happen anymore.

All we can do is be aware of what causes us negativity and avoid those things as much as possible.  Perfection is going to be hard to attain.

 

[allinone]

1 minute ago, Marblehead said:

All we can do is be aware of what causes us negativity and avoid those things as much as possible.  Perfection is going to be hard to attain.

 

 

3rd skandha will solve that issue.

[Marblehead]

1 minute ago, allinone said:

 

its said there is no self in skandhas.

In my mind, that's a cop-out.  We (the self) experience things in life that cause us anguish.  We must deal with those conditions else we will drive our self crazy.

 

[allinone]

10 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

In my mind, that's a cop-out.  We (the self) experience things in life that cause us anguish.  We must deal with those conditions else we will drive our self crazy.

 

 

samadhi is union with self. That self is not real, it is a being. If you aint in samadhi you view of self can be on a 1st skandha level or 2nd etc.

 

3rd skandha already is seen by not ordinary way, its contemplation what is needed on a object.

Edited July 8, 2017 by allinone

[Marblehead]

I don't want to talk about your faith.

 

I do know that reality will kick your ass if you aren't paying attention.

 

[allinone]

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

I don't want to talk about your faith.

 

I do know that reality will kick your ass if you aren't paying attention.

 

 

for now

i try to make sure that when i contemplate i am not inside my 6th consciousness thinking mind. So instead i am feeling my senses, so if i look i am feeling my eyeballs and i can then zoom into outer object and get a sense of spatiality then i come back and i see the objects moving, floating. Then i make it stop and start feel pulsation. Then feeling pulsation in my temples.

 

just now i did it. A short session of meditation without plan or anything. Just doing where i was left, can't repeat it, so i now just keep waiting, some sensations going on time to time etc.

 

--a few moments later

 

bubbling sensation in belly also heat, if i look details in youtube video, my eyesight wants to go brighter and sharper and it goes.

Edited July 8, 2017 by allinone

[Marblehead]

Okay.  So, did that get you any where?  Will it help you live in this manifest world?  Will it put money in your pocket so you can buy some food?

 

Beware of staring into the abyss as if you stare long enough it will start staring back at you.

 

[phore]

 

3 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Okay.  So, did that get you any where?  Will it help you live in this manifest world?  Will it put money in your pocket so you can buy some food?

 

Beware of staring into the abyss as if you stare long enough it will start staring back at you.

 

Or maybe its been patiently watching us all along, biding its time, until the moment when someone notices.

[Marblehead]

Just now, phore said:

 

Or maybe its been patiently watching us all along, biding its time, until the moment when someone notices.

Now that is heavy.  Two different perspectives to this perhaps:

 

How easy would it be for us to slip down into the abyss?

 

Are we strong enough to stare down the abyss and cause it to break its stare?

 

Yes, perhaps the abyss is always there watching and waiting for the right moment.

 

[thelerner]

Book learning is great, but there a time to put the books down.

Philosophy is great, but again, there's a time to drop the rules and lofty thinking and see if you've absorbed enough so you can live freely, without it's rules and regulations as training wheels. 

 

Most of all don't get stuck in mind loops.  Ie do a (minor) wrong, ie hurt another life form by accident, be aware of it, and strive to do better next time.  But don't dwell on it.   As minor get into major then amends should be made.  Personally I don't know how (or why) you'd make amends to a bug, but if that's what you code calls for, find a way then move on. 

 

 

[phore]

3 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Now that is heavy.  Two different perspectives to this perhaps:

 

How easy would it be for us to slip down into the abyss?

 

Are we strong enough to stare down the abyss and cause it to break its stare?

 

Yes, perhaps the abyss is always there watching and waiting for the right moment.

 

The Abyss Blinks!

Sounds like a good title for something.  

Chuang-tzu says that there are 9 types of abyss in his story about The master of the Pot, Leih-tzu, and the shaman.  

 

If it is truly an abyss that we are speaking of, it should be really easy to slip in if we possess enough clarity to position ourselves at the mouth and let go. 

 

A mouth chews and swallows some parts and spits other parts out again.  Sometimes bones sometimes hawking radiation.

 

One we get in, how easy would it be to get back out?

1 hour ago, thelerner said:

Book learning is great, but there a time to put the books down.

Philosophy is great, but again, there's a time to drop the rules and lofty thinking and see if you've absorbed enough so you can live freely, without it's rules and regulations as training wheels. 

 

Most of all don't get stuck in mind loops.  Ie do a (minor) wrong, ie hurt another life form by accident, be aware of it, and strive to do better next time.  But don't dwell on it.   As minor get into major then amends should be made.  Personally I don't know how (or why) you'd make amends to a bug, but if that's what you code calls for, find a way then move on. 

 

 

I fully agree that if we follow a code, there should be a simple, intentional route to freedom within the context of the code.

[Stosh]

Id appreciate it if yall would refrain from posting pix of my ex-wife.