Yin Style Bagua and the Mother Palms

[phore]

Hello,

I have recently been watching some videos by the Association for Traditional Studies.  I have been particularly interested in their 63 video collection of Yin style Phoenix Bagua.  

Yin Style Phoenix Bagua on Youtube

 

The association has videos of the Yin style Lion, Bear, Dragon, and Phoenix systems as well as some Dao Yin. 

 

I have read that it is best to start learning Bagua with the 8 mother palms.  When I reviewed the content of the phoenix system, they seemed to cover 64 palm patterns in sequence.  What would be the appropriate starting point for this system? 

 

Are there 8 mother palms in the yin style phoenix system and if so how do i sort them out?

 

 

Thank you for your help.

  

Edited July 7, 2017 by phore
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[Astral Monk]

I think the 'old 8' palms are fairly universal. They are connected to the 8 trigrams. Earth double press down, heaven double press up, wind pressing forward and backward, thunder double press forward, fire piercing up-down, water piercing out pressing up (spear posture), mountain palms together upward press along the body, lake classic palm posture pressing out with other palm at the elbow.

 

 

 

There are variations, of course. The squence above is heaven, earth, wind (right), thunder, fire(left), water (left), mountain, lake (left).

 

8)

[phore]

3 hours ago, Astral Monk said:

I think the 'old 8' palms are fairly universal. They are connected to the 8 trigrams. Earth double press down, heaven double press up, wind pressing forward and backward, thunder double press forward, fire piercing up-down, water piercing out pressing up (spear posture), mountain palms together upward press along the body, lake classic palm posture pressing out with other palm at the elbow.

 

 

 

There are variations, of course. The squence above is heaven, earth, wind (right), thunder, fire(left), water (left), mountain, lake (left).

 

8)

Interesting.

 

So Possibly either there are forms in the phoenix style bagua which conform to the above patterns or the phoenix is a specialized system based on the fundamentals.  

 

I believe that the entire Phoenix Palm set is considered wind triagram.

 

Maybe I will email the guy from the association.

 

Thanks.

[Astral Monk]

The old palms are pretty basic, and different styles may use different changes to move between them. 64 sets are further extensions of these changes with more applications. But there should be some kinda root palms in there. Let us know what you discover!

 

8)

[Sudhamma]

Astral monk is right that these palms are universal though represented differently in form and emphasis.  "Root" palms are static without the upper body movements like the fluid 64-lian wan zhang or 8-mother palms, Ba-Mu-zhang. Root palms are for the purpose of lian-gong with emphasis on the stepping. I will like to state that the lian-gong aspect is an intense nei-gong exercise. The static palms are known as 'Ting-si Ba-zhang'. It is very basic, yet most important to master them and to build up the internal qi. In my Yin p'ai Gong m'en lineage, this static 8 palms are part of the 32-movements of Roushenggong, the Flexible Body exercise.

[Gerard]

On 7/8/2017 at 8:20 AM, phore said:

Hello,

I have been particularly interested in their 63 video collection of Yin style Phoenix Bagua.

  

 

63 videos?

 

Honestly that's overkill. You only need to walk the circle well, and by well means to perfection and from there you keep going and going and going. Also work with keen dedication the foundation work required to develop and strong root and stability to work the circle with fluidity and ease (not what you see normally on YT). Mr He Jinghan has invaluable and FREE video resources in his YouTube channel and blog (baguaquanlessons.com).

 

Spend many years in working the core of the art rather than 63 videos and countless forms that are good for overtraining mentally and physically.

 

Main stances (part of foundation work)

 

Developing the ‘Basics’; and the before Basic Basics

 

The 8MP are basically the ones listed here (there are some lines that don't include the millstone pushing palm and instead they replace it with a different one, i.e, ape offering the peach).

 

Good luck!

[Sudhamma]

The founding master of Yin P'ai Baquazhang, Yin Fu was Dong Hai Chuan's eldest student. Yin Fu was very loyal to his teacher and stayed by his teacher's side until his death while many others left after a few years of study to start their own. Yin Fu's martial foundation came from Shaolin Lohan (of the Northern variety) and had elements of it in his baquazhang, eg piercing  'ox-tongue' palm. His single palm change for instance is a stand alone and a good example of being different from the rest, the 'millstone pushing palm' included. Throughout his many years, he had taught many and many forms. Those 63 videos is not an over-kill but good references for those in the advanced levels of baquazhang practice. 

[GreytoWhite]

Regarding the Yin Style Baguazhang system you linked to there is no Mother Palms set. They typically taught beginners Lion and dependent on how deep the student got they'd allow someone to learn other animals like Bear then Dragon. Some students only got one animal. The Penetrating Palms set was also taught to beginners.
 

 

[phore]

1 hour ago, GreytoWhite said:

Regarding the Yin Style Baguazhang system you linked to there is no Mother Palms set. They typically taught beginners Lion and dependent on how deep the student got they'd allow someone to learn other animals like Bear then Dragon. Some students only got one animal. The Penetrating Palms set was also taught to beginners.
 

 

Thanks, I emailed Andrew from ATS and he said pretty much the same thing;  The 8 mother palms are the representative postures of the 8 animals,  So the phoenix system is based off of one mother palm, and each of the other animals is based off of a different mother palm.  

 

Love and light.