Alan Watts

[dwai]

Fascinating stuff. I had started reading one of his books long back but couldn't make head or tail of it (almost 20 years back). 

 

Quote

 

But the reason why the idea of self-renunciation appears in the impossible form of a precept is that it is a form of what Buddhists would call upaya— a Sanskrit term meaning “skillful means,” and more particularly the skillful means employed by a teacher to awaken his student to some truth which can only be reached in a roundabout way. For the selfishness of the self thrives on the notion that it can command itself, that it is the lord and master of its own processes, of its own motives and desires. Thus the one important result of any really serious attempt at self-renunciation or self-acceptance is the humiliating discovery that it is impossible. And this precisely is that death to oneself which is the improbable source of a way of life so new and so alive that it feels like having been born again. In this metaphorical sense, the ego dies on finding out its own incapacity, its inability to make any difference to itself that is really important. That is why, in Zen Buddhism, the task of self-transcendence is likened to a mosquito trying to bite an iron bull, and, in the words of one of the old masters, the transforming death comes about at the very moment when the iron hide of the bull finally and absolutely rejects the mosquito’s frail proboscis.

There is, of course, still some refuge for our illusion of self-importance in the idea that we must first make a very resolute effort to bite the bull. Every “in-group” distinguishes itself from the “out-group,” the initiates from the hoi polloi, by some process of “going through the mill,” of enduring sufferings which are subsequently worn as the proud badge of graduation. Thus one of the more sickening aspects of spiritual phoniness is the usually rather subtly hinted implication that one has, after all, “suffered so much.” So, too, in the person who is still a mere aspirant to the state of grace, the same kind of humbug wears the form of resolutions to bite the bull to the utmost— in order to have oneself finally and effectively convinced that it cannot be done.

Watts, Alan W.. Become What You Are: Expanded Edition (pp. 4-5). Shambhala. Kindle Edition. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by dwai

[dwai]

Quote

 

I have always found that the people who have quite genuinely died to themselves make no claims of any kind to their own part in the process. They think of themselves as lazy and lucky. If they did anything at all, it was so simple that anyone else could do the same— for all that they have done is to recognize a universal fact of life, something as true of the weak and foolish as of the wise and strong. They would even say that in this respect there is some advantage in being weak and foolish, for the possession of a strong will and a clever head makes some things very difficult to see. A successful merchant will perhaps be less ready than a mere tramp to see that the same oblivion engulfs both of them. To the genuine dead-man-come-alive, sage, mystic, buddha, jivanmukta, or what you will, the notion that he attained this state by some effort or by some special capacity of his own is always absurd and impossible.

 

You may almost be sure, then, that some kind of clericalism, some kind of highly refined spiritual racket, is at work when stress is laid upon the suffering and the discipline, the endurance and the willpower, which are said to be the essential prerequisites of an entry to the kingdom of heaven. Such talk is sometimes just making the best of a bad job— trying to pretend to oneself that a life of constant self-frustration was in fact a great spiritual attainment. Sometimes it may simply be an honest mistake, for there are people who discover what was always close at hand only after a long and painful journey, and they remain under the impression that the most awkward road was the only road. Sometimes, however, talk of this kind is the really nasty kind of preaching affected by people who presume to be schoolmasters to their fellow man. But their sermons never have the slightest creative effect, since the only motives for action which they supply are shame or fear or guilt, and when we respond to such motives we find only a balm for the ego’s injured pride— a balm upon

which our egocentricity flourishes with special gusto. With such misunderstandings out of the way, perhaps we can consider more intimately what it means to find life by losing it.

Watts, Alan W.. Become What You Are: Expanded Edition (pp. 5-6). Shambhala. Kindle Edition. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by dwai

[allinone]

its gossip

I wonder how could he talk down renounciation...i understand the wrong renouncing what is thinking mind biased, but like you won't get feelings when you don't renounciate. Stricter your discipline is the more easily you break and get feels and regret. To the point you just need to slightly hint or look and you break and start bleed.

 

hey but maybe i am devil. So just keep follow what he says, but what he says? does his words honor higher rank or being pious?

-------

now after saying my negative thing here. I now see what he writes without having negative reaction.

(if i think back then i saw a negative pattern, my mind sees only certain words and gives me wrong[not wrong info, maybe it supposed to be that way] info)

 

 

Edited July 16, 2017 by allinone

[Yinja]

(A big fan of Alan Watts)

 

THe language is a bit high for me but if i got it right, he says our rule in this play(of being seperated)  is to "bite the iron bull" 

untill we realize it cant be done?  

 

Or using another quote of A.W (with my own words) If a man believes the world is flat, the only way to convince him otherwise is to walk from one point all the way until you get back to where you started. 

 

What do you think about it ? What is in our control? 

[allinone]

15 minutes ago, Yinja said:

(A big fan of Alan Watts)

 

THe language is a bit high for me but if i got it right, he says our rule in this play(of being seperated)  is to "bite the iron bull" 

untill we realize it cant be done?  

 

Or using another quote of A.W (with my own words) If a man believes the world is flat, the only way to convince him otherwise is to walk from one point all the way until you get back to where you started. 

 

What do you think about it ? What is in our control? 

 

what you do with when a man believes in round earth? When you walk you actually not walk straight you start go into curve, spiral.

[Miffymog]

Curiously enough, I've heard this is true. If you are lost in the desert (ignoring how you got lost) and you start walking in a straight line, you will actually start to walk in a gentle circle. This is because the stride lengths of each leg is slightly different. You then slowly walk in a circle (ignoring what direction the sun is in). Then, after some time, you come across some tracks which you think might lead you out of the desert but unknown to you, they are actually your own. Oblivious to this fact, you start to follow these tracks and end up running out of water as you keep going in circles !!!

[Brian]

19 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

Curiously enough, I've heard this is true. If you are lost in the desert (ignoring how you got lost) and you start walking in a straight line, you will actually start to walk in a gentle circle. This is because the stride lengths of each leg is slightly different. You then slowly walk in a circle (ignoring what direction the sun is in). Then, after some time, you come across some tracks which you think might lead you out of the desert but unknown to you, they are actually your own. Oblivious to this fact, you start to follow these tracks and end up running out of water as you keep going in circles !!!

The British in WWII were teaching flight crews in the North Africa theatre to pair up a left-handed person with a right-handed person in such an event, when possible, specifically to try to counteract that tendency.

[blue eyed snake]

 

 

[allinone]

29 minutes ago, Brian said:

The British in WWII were teaching flight crews in the North Africa theatre to pair up a left-handed person with a right-handed person in such an event, when possible, specifically to try to counteract that tendency.

 

tectonic plates move too, i wonder why they don't drop off if earth is round

[Brian]

18 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

tectonic plates move too, i wonder why they don't drop off if earth is round

Mean Mister Gravity.  He'll break stuff if you drop it, too.

[allinone]

19 minutes ago, Brian said:

Mean Mister Gravity.  He'll break stuff if you drop it, too.

ok

from wikipedia

 

Quote

 

Everyday gravity[change | change source]

Weight vs mass[change | change source]

In everyday talk, we say things fall because the Earth's gravity pulls on them. We talk as if our weight was a "given". Actually, weight changes when the pull of gravity changes. The Moon is much smaller and the pull of gravity on the Moon is about 1/6th that of Earth. So any object on the Moon weighs 1/6th of its weight on Earth. What does not change is the amount of matter in an object. That is called its mass. On Earth, mass and weight are the same for practical purposes. The trip to the Moon shows they are not really the same.

From this we learn two things.

1. The weight of an object is variable; its mass is constant.
2. The pull of gravity varies according to the mass of an object. The Earth pulls more strongly than the Moon. A person also exerts a gravitational pull, but it is so tiny it can be ignored for all practical purposes.

The Earth has mass. Every particle of matter has mass. So the Earth pulls on every object and person, and they pull on the Earth. This pulling force is called "gravity" and it gives weight.

 

 

Quote

In physics, mass is a property of a physical body. It is the measure of an object's resistance to acceleration (a change in its state of motion) when a net force is applied.^[1] It also determines the strength of its mutual gravitational attraction to other bodies. The basic SI unit of mass is the kilogram (kg).

 

Basically inside the earth is something very stubborn?

[Brian]

1 minute ago, allinone said:

ok

from wikipedia

 

 

 

Basically inside the earth is something very stubborn?

And inside of you.

[allinone]

uh uh, if that gets more stubborn, it will press the fire out of the holes. Hey we need more wars and distress on surface asap to counter it. If we get too good then we will get into end times sooner.

[allinone]

wait, that means i actually want to get into end times, so i need start get more good to fasten it.

[Aaron]

His "The Book:On the Taboo of Knowing Who You Are" is one of my favorite books period. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in learning more about Vedanta. 

[voidisyinyang]

I wouldn't waste my time with Alan Watts as he was already outed as a fake.

 

Fortunately we now have access to real spiritual masters from China.

 

 

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

30 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

I wouldn't waste my time with Alan Watts as he was already outed as a fake.

 

Fortunately we now have access to real spiritual masters from China.

 

 

Buddhism is a religion. Alan Watts teaches us to reach beyond religion. He was enlightened.

You can sit in a cave for fifty years, or you can just listen to Alan tell you the truth in an hour.

[blue eyed snake]

the first book I've read on these kind of topics was  the wisdom of insecurity. To me it was a treasure and I may read it again.

 

But I would not say he can teach you the truth in an hour. When you're open to it you will see it. But when you cannot open the you will not find it worthwhile I think. You will simply not get what he means.

[allinone]

15 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

the first book I've read on these kind of topics was  the wisdom of insecurity. To me it was a treasure and I may read it again.

 

But I would not say he can teach you the truth in an hour. When you're open to it you will see it. But when you cannot open the you will not find it worthwhile I think. You will simply not get what he means.

 

its actually simple there isn't anything special to know. Its about faster progress, evolution, and supervisers worry about circling on one and the same processes unknown time. There are also certain type of peeps who are deemed not able to break out of that circle of dumb repeats because of sensual thinking is too strong.

 

philosophy is science to destroy other person. And philosophers wait for worthy opponents who can destroy them too.

[Miffymog]

When I read these posts, part of me really wants to read works like Alan Watts; and in the past I would have happily ordered some of his books on Amazon and looked forward to them arriving and gaining lots of insights and wisdom from them.

 

But now, for some reason, the motivation to do this has dried up and I'm not entirely sure why. Is it that I've already gone through that stage in my life when the quest for wisdom and insight was strong? Maybe I'm actually going through a stage where I'm trying to 'unlearn something everyday'?.

 

I feel that this is something close to the truth. I've done enough in my life where I pretty much have all the answers inside of me. What I seek to do now is just let things settle in side of me and let the wisdom and insight come from within - this might well be in the form of just remembering something I've read in the past.

 

This feels like how I will now continue the rest of life in my quest for wisdom and insight, the other advantage of it is efficiency, I no longer feel the need or desire to put any more effort in this quest.

 

So part of me misses that buzz of a new philosopher to read, and the excitement of that next book that might revolutionise my outlook on life, but there is a perhaps lazier side of me that is now able to let go of that desire. I will in all likelihood never read any of Alan Watt's work, maybe that is a shame, maybe not.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Miffymog

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

42 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

the first book I've read on these kind of topics was  the wisdom of insecurity. To me it was a treasure and I may read it again.

 

But I would not say he can teach you the truth in an hour. When you're open to it you will see it. But when you cannot open the you will not find it worthwhile I think. You will simply not get what he means.

You have to be on acid.

[allinone]

internet is overflowing from Alan Watts oneliners and thoughts in audio versions too. He uses the style to invigorate the brain, it is like talking with a twist, you don't expect that to come, so many will fall for it as high wisdom.

 

its like a good show. And like Miffy, its not for everyone taste.

 

[allinone]

brain yearns more powerful wisdom and liberation. No alcohol, no porn, no drugs needed, waht could possible replace that must be a good substance.

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

The ancient Taoists themselves searched for an "enlightenment pill". It's acid.

Take 3 tabs and drink a bottle of Delsym cough syrup then play some Alan Watts all night and see the truth.

Though you will only hear him in the beginning, before you go beyond.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Drifting_Through_Infinity

[blue eyed snake]

5 minutes ago, Drifting_Through_Infinity said:

The ancient Taoists themselves searched for an "enlightenment pill". It's acid.

Take 3 tabs and drink a bottle of Delsym cough syrup them play some Alan Watts all night and see the truth.

Though you will only hear him in the beginning, before you go beyond.

 

no thanks, i prefer less intrusive methods