astral travel Has anyone here switched bodies with someone?

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

So my friend Austin and I have come to the conclusion that we were supposed to be born in each other's body and we want to try trading bodies for a few days to see what it's like.

If you've done his, please share your experience and tell how you did it. Our current plan is to leave our bodies, unplug the silver cords, and replug them into the correct bodies.

[Spotless]

Not as simple as you might think.

It involves a karma exchange in part and considerable "indigestion".

 

Like someone who had way too much plastic surgery - or someone with a big tattoo on them of a now hated previous spouse - this idea is fraught with lack of foresight.

[Jeff]

39 minutes ago, Drifting_Through_Infinity said:

So my friend Austin and I have come to the conclusion that we were supposed to be born in each other's body and we want to try trading bodies for a few days to see what it's like.

If you've done his, please share your experience and tell how you did it. Our current plan is to leave our bodies, unplug the silver cords, and replug them into the correct bodies.

 

Doesn't really work that way, though it is possible to have a powerful energetic shared space for a short period (like with sex) and momentarily switch (perspective).  For extended periods, it works more like possession where someone is kind of overwhelming the other.  There are not really any cords to unplug as it is more the body is a "mapping" into the physical realm.

[RiverSnake]

Energetic merging is the closest i've come to this. I recall Seth Ananda mentioned something about having experience with switching bodies.

 

Eventually your going to leave this body as it decays and travel elsewhere.....it's just a temporary vessel. I wouldn't get overly caught up in what the "correct" body is for you....there is no "correct" body.

 

What i think is you may have some karmic energies to work out with that person and you should focus on dissolving that which is creating the situation to begin with....just my 2 cents. 

    

Edited July 20, 2017 by OldSaint

[Daeluin]

1 hour ago, Drifting_Through_Infinity said:

So my friend Austin and I have come to the conclusion that we were supposed to be born in each other's body

 

I offer the perspective that whenever something "was supposed to be different" with the way we were born, that we try to feel out the reason for this feeling.

 

Were we born into a pattern that is seemingly very different from our historical transmigrationary patterns? This could be related to a need we had, to deal with a difficulty in balancing certain momentum based influences, while in our "familiar" role.  So perhaps we are now gaining the ability to digest those lessons while embodied in a pattern that can do that more easily. Or perhaps we have now become able to face challenges that we had not been able to face in the past, which only seem new from a limited perspective. Perhaps both at once.

 

This could be choice related and intentional, even though it may not seem intentional after embodiment.

 

Could it be choice related to something like impatience? Feeling the need to embody and not wait for the right patterns to arise, when certain patterns did arise, perhaps we jumped at the opportunity - and simultaneously accepted the new and perhaps transformational lessons these fundamental changes in patterns would bring.

 

I suspect this is common with gender imbalances - one who has difficulty in cultivating yin qualities while in masculine momentum may be led to try on femininity to learn more naturally before returning to the main momentum. Or perhaps a pair whom have shared momentum in the past now desire to embody in the same timeframe and locale. Whenever there are specific patterns that need to be matched, they are more difficult to find, and naturally come with their own shapings.

 

It is common for the "ego" to project expectations onto the world in declaring what is supposed to be. In reality such control is only possible in a walled garden, which is then separated from the whole and also risks destruction whenever it begins to open again to exchange with the whole. When trust and acceptance are exercised, we may not get what we think we are supposed to, but often we get exactly what we need - a discovery soon realized after working through it rather than rejecting it.t

 

It is up to us to both feel out what our challenges are and also walk the path of integration by working through those challenges. The more resistance, the more restriction - the more acceptance, the greater freedom.

 

61

THE YIELDING NATION

A great nation, like a river delta,
Receives the riches of the land.
In being receptive - possessing the Yin,
Receiving the Yang unto it,
Overcomes all by its very peacefulness and quietude.

So -
A great nation, placing itself below a lesser,
Absorbs the lesser.
A lesser nation, submitting to a greater,
Conquers and wins adherence of the greater.
Thus -
To absorb, conquer and win adherence,
- One must yield.

Truly -
Those who triumph, do so by yielding.
A great nation prospers by absorbing,
A lesser by joining and participating.
For both to so benefit,
the greater nation needs be a yielding nation.

 

tl. Alan B. Taplow

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

Okay, well I'm gonna try it and il post here how it works out.

[RiverSnake]

Please do share. 

[RiverSnake]

Also within the 8 Yogas of Naropa there is a method that talks about projecting one's consciousness into another being in the last moments before death.  

[Jeff]

5 minutes ago, Drifting_Through_Infinity said:

Okay, well I'm gonna try it and il post here how it works out.

 

Looking forward to hearing how it goes.  Ok, if I do a remote scan on you now to sort of get a baseline?

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, OldSaint said:

Also within the 8 Yogas of Naropa there is a method that talks about projecting one's consciousness into another being in the last moments before death.  

 

Yes, but that is possession like I mentioned above.

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

Just now, OldSaint said:

Also within the 8 Yogas of Naropa there is a method that talks about projecting one's consciousness into another being in the last moments before death.  

Is it permanent? Tell me more. I've never heard of this

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

 

Looking forward to hearing how it goes.  Ok, if I do a remote scan on you now to sort of get a baseline?

Please do and tell me what you find in a PM.

[qicat]

36 minutes ago, Drifting_Through_Infinity said:

Okay, well I'm gonna try it and il post here how it works out.

 

that's the attitude I love. Experimentation! You go, boy ( or girl)!

 

Please report back with detailed notes. We are all listening very carefully. 

 

p.s. I should not be encouraging such behaviors, as it is extremely dangerous and most likely result in permanent mental instability... ( disclaimer for the Divine and Sifu)

 

[Daeluin]

24 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Yes, but that is possession like I mentioned above.

 

Something like this is mentioned in Chronicles of Tao.

 

However there it was not described as something like possession, but rather the opposite: as though the jewel of the refined soul is passed from one spirit, at the end of its time within physical embodiment, unto the care of another spirit. The new spirit would have full autonomy, though of course the karmic gravity and momentum would also be transferred.

 

There was not much elaboration, and I am not very clear on the purpose for such an exchange. It was described as a sharing between a master and a student, so perhaps as a very poignant tool for extension of lineage.

[RiverSnake]

They talk a bit about it here. It's supposedly a similar practice to the Buddhist phowa techniques. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phowa

[RiverSnake]

36 minutes ago, Drifting_Through_Infinity said:

Is it permanent? Tell me more. I've never heard of this

 

Nothing is permanent....save consciousness itself. 

[Spotless]

You are not so far off in your original post as some might think. It is possible to completely leave your body with all aspects of consciousness intact - with the exception of the gross physical - and I mean completely leave your body - not astral travel but a visceral full awareness next to your body - you can feel the hair outside your body. I have done this and could do it again and could teach it though I have no interest in doing so.

 

Switching the silver cords is probably possible and doing what you would like is probably possible - I would say it is all possible, probable in fact if you actually knew what was needed. But the bigger questions are several:

 

What experience do you have in this sort of stuff, thinking that brings you to the "jumping off" point?

 

Are you both actually fairly adept in high trance control - many think they are - almost none are and you should be of the very highest level - I could help you on this but it is intensive and extremely hard for students to not falter and be taken over by themselves and other aspects.

 

This would be a simple extraordinarily difficult transaction - I am willing to discuss this with you in private as an advisor.

If you think someone is going to do this for you - refer to my first response here, slap yourself several times and take a cold shower.

 

 

[RiverSnake]

My thoughts run along similar lines of spotless. These are very advanced techniques, your out of your league so to speak. 

[Zhongyongdaoist]

51 minutes ago, OldSaint said:

Also within the 8 Yogas of Naropa there is a method that talks about projecting one's consciousness into another being in the last moments before death.  

 

It's Six Yogas of Naropa.  I first read this as a teenager in Garma C. C. Chang's translation, there are more modern translations available.  This is largely a work on dream yoga, but has some consideration of consciousness transference when one is dying and using it to reanimate a corpse.  in terms of Daoist technique's Professor Jerry Alan Johnson's books on Daoist magic have some interesting information.

 

This is an interesting sounding project, but it is definitely advanced work, but the training that would have to be done would be worthwhile in itself.

 

ZYD

[Spotless]

If this were learning how to possess another or share space with another it would be simple to teach and relatively - particularly by comparison - easy to learn (not that I would teach either) but this is not what you are proposing. This has nothing actually to do with possession - that would be a completely different set of concerns.

 

Oodly - this circumstance offers a sort of clean situation vs possession or something closely related - what is referred to as a "walk-in".

 

I have never dabbled in the black arts but know the tricks intimately from the other side and both sides.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Spotless

[Spotless]

It is possible that this could be relatively simple it is just that the simpler approaches mean a certain looseness on your parts that are hard to shake afterward - they are a leading cause of seekers going off into the nut house.

[liminal_luke]

Learning to get really, really comfortable in the body you have is probably just as difficult a feat -- and so much more likely to end on a happy note (the grass being always greener and all that).

[Taomeow]

5 hours ago, Daeluin said:

 

Something like this is mentioned in Chronicles of Tao.

 

However there it was not described as something like possession, but rather the opposite: as though the jewel of the refined soul is passed from one spirit, at the end of its time within physical embodiment, unto the care of another spirit. The new spirit would have full autonomy, though of course the karmic gravity and momentum would also be transferred.

 

There was not much elaboration, and I am not very clear on the purpose for such an exchange. It was described as a sharing between a master and a student, so perhaps as a very poignant tool for extension of lineage.

 

This is a continuation of the universal shamanic tradition.  There were several ways to become a shaman, but all of them were decided upon in the spirit realm -- ancestral spirits chose the human body to initiate, and the initiated shaman kept in touch with them to find out who, and how, to initiate next.  Typically it was the student, the apprentice, or else a blood relative, who in some cases didn't even get the training in the material world but had the "receptive vehicle" of a body due to being related to the shaman.  In such cases, the shaman, usually on deathbed, transferred his or her entire spirit and all the knowledge to the new shaman.  The lay tribesmen were well aware of this method of transmission, so the new shaman wasn't even treated as new -- it was the same shaman, the same spirit, and many tribes believed throughout their existence that they always had one and the same shaman from the beginning of time, who just went through merging with different bodies as generations passed by.  

 

One such situation is described in a book titled "Entering the Circle," by a Soviet-era Siberian psychiatrist (now living in the US) who was faced with this weird case in her practice.  A young man came to see her seeking professional help, he thought he was rapidly losing his mind, and it was somehow connected to his uncle, a shaman who kept his shamanic side secret until it was time for him to die.  He visited his nephew in a dream and told him that it's his destiny to be the new shaman.  The young man was freaking out, terrified and confused and depressed, up until the moment of the actual transfer (that took place the moment his uncle died), whereupon he acquired a completely new and totally confident demeanor, dismissed the psychiatrist on the spot telling her that her services were no longer needed, and proceeded to fulfill his destiny (and, eventually, hers too...) 

[qicat]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

This is a continuation of the universal shamanic tradition.  There were several ways to become a shaman, but all of them were decided upon in the spirit realm -- ancestral spirits chose the human body to initiate, and the initiated shaman kept in touch with them to find out who, and how, to initiate next.  Typically it was the student, the apprentice, or else a blood relative, who in some cases didn't even get the training in the material world but had the "receptive vehicle" of a body due to being related to the shaman.  In such cases, the shaman, usually on deathbed, transferred his or her entire spirit and all the knowledge to the new shaman.  The lay tribesmen were well aware of this method of transmission, so the new shaman wasn't even treated as new -- it was the same shaman, the same spirit, and many tribes believed throughout their existence that they always had one and the same shaman from the beginning of time, who just went through merging with different bodies as generations passed by.  

 

One such situation is described in a book titled "Entering the Circle," by a Soviet-era Siberian psychiatrist (now living in the US) who was faced with this weird case in her practice.  A young man came to see her seeking professional help, he thought he was rapidly losing his mind, and it was somehow connected to his uncle, a shaman who kept his shamanic side secret until it was time for him to die.  He visited his nephew in a dream and told him that it's his destiny to be the new shaman.  The young man was freaking out, terrified and confused and depressed, up until the moment of the actual transfer (that took place the moment his uncle died), whereupon he acquired a completely new and totally confident demeanor, dismissed the psychiatrist on the spot telling her that her services were no longer needed, and proceeded to fulfill his destiny (and, eventually, hers too...) 

 Institute of Dalai Lama and tulkus is built on this.... I have heard they found a reincarnation ( of a powerful tulku) in Minnesota....  But I doubt they go around switching bodies with "friend Bob" for fun...

[Daeluin]

Several things being spoken of here...

• skillful navigation of reincarnation/transmigration (into newly conceived life)
• passing of soul/de/consciousness from one body to another
  • the elder soul assumes control
  • the elder soul surrenders to the new host

 

This last is what I felt was being described above - is it possible? The new host would need the skills to navigate such potent energy, but presuming that preparation had been made, I imagine that energy being absorbed and assimilated into the new host, without the old being able to control anything after the gift had been given.

 

Also brings to mind something explored by Frank Herbert - where a strong past life incarnations may take the reigns as one delves deep, if they are stronger than the current presence.

 

Then there are channels and so on.

 

I've been taught that we should avoid sharing the vessel with others - it is our responsibility.  And that responsibility our spirit is burdened with is to dissolve the ego and heal the soul - complete the de and return it to dao.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Daeluin