this is simple, obvious, and easy to understand

[roger]

We don't see things exactly as they are.

 

This fact hit me hard today.

[thursday]

And if we do see things as they are, it can hit us hard too.. Let's remember to move on regardless of being right or wrong because either can bring suffering. We really want less suffering, sometimes hard lessons.. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by thursday

[Miffymog]

1 hour ago, roger said:

We don't see things exactly as they are.

 

This fact hit me hard today.

 

Unfortunately the information which is received through our senses is put through many filters before they get to 'us'. This is partly due to the fact that so much information is received that nearly all of it has to be stripped away so that our consciousness can process it on a 'this or that' level. A level when where we only have to decided between two things. Any shop keeper knows that if you give the shopper too many choices, they get confused and walk away.

 

The problem is where does that leave us? Living in half true reality? Well, this discussion could go on for a long time.

 

1 - Spiritual practices do allow us to slowly expand our conscious awareness, so that we can make slightly better decisions about our environment.

 

2 - The other side is that we kind of have to accept that we don't really know what's going and just deal with it - which is exactly where this OP is coming from  

Edited July 22, 2017 by Miffymog

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, roger said:

We don't see things exactly as they are.

 

This fact hit me hard today.

I see progress.  That's Great!!!

 

[Lost in Translation]

On 7/22/2017 at 4:29 AM, roger said:

We don't see things exactly as they are.

 

This fact hit me hard today.

 

Try to explain colors to a man blind from birth... 

 

In my experience the most profound truths are revealed in silence. 'Exactly' isn't necessary. 

 

[Fa Xin]

Does anyone see them exactly as they are?

 

or does *everyone* see them exactly as they are?

[thelerner]

Our vision is like a camera with tight focus.  We lock onto to what we look at and are unaware that most things in our vision are a  blur.   Yet because our focus isn't on them, we don't notice, usually.

 

Similarly with people and things we care about, gain our focus.  We're aware of there moods and changes.  Can spot them or hear them in a crowd.  This summer I've developed a bit of a snake focus, so I see them around more.  With familiarity comes comfort and greater ease. 

[CedarTree]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 2:29 AM, roger said:

We don't see things exactly as they are.

 

This fact hit me hard today.

 

Sometimes this subtle thing hits hard.  I know where your speaking from.

[roger]

45 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

Does anyone see them exactly as they are?

 

or does *everyone* see them exactly as they are?

 

Probably there are degrees of clarity. One person may see 10% of what's really there, another person may see 90%. I doubt anyone has ever had 100% clarity of vision and perception - that would be like understanding truth perfectly, which imo is impossible for a physical being.

 

There's something else though, about the matter of seeing what's there. Some teachers I've read have taught this. There's a stage of growth that begins when the person realizes that what they see, believe, and interpret, is NOT the actual truth, or at least not fully.

 

J. Krishnamurti put it, 'The word is not the thing.'

 

Another way to put it is, 'Perception is not reality.'

 

It's fairly easy to grasp intellectually. We have to make an absolute distinction between our own beliefs and perceptions, and truth itself.

 

Most people confuse the two.

[Fa Xin]

Yes, that's true. The world of perception and beliefs definitely tints truth. 

 

But im just trying to provide a counter point or play devils advocate, if you will. 

 

That being that ... doesn't everyone have their own version of "truth" ?  Even if it's completely based in belief and perceptions. How are we to say that is not 100% truth? Why is our view of truth more true than someone else ?

Edited August 23, 2017 by Fa Xin

[Starjumper]

The only way brains function is by creating duality, and the decisions that result from this view of duality are based on past experience or learnings, on beliefs.

[thelerner]

Too often we are more rationalizing then rational.  Once we label something as good, we go on autopilot to describe other things in the category as bad.  We disagree with a person on one subject, so we label them and from then on try to find other ways they fit into a stereotype we made for them.  A very bad habit. 

[Stosh]

3 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

Yes, that's true. The world of perception and beliefs definitely tints truth. 

 

But im just trying to provide a counter point or play devils advocate, if you will. 

 

That being that ... doesn't everyone have their own version of "truth" ?  Even if it's completely based in belief and perceptions. How are we to say that is not 100% truth? Why is our view of truth more true than someone else ?

A view that is true, has a high degree or accord with that which actually exists , regardless of sentiments.  

So no , there is but one truth , and we all have views about it, and subjective  illusions which contradict the factual truth. 

Truth which is Objective fact,  must be inferred and considered within a conceptual framework, (otherwise nothing can be accurately said about it). 

 

[roger]

7 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

Yes, that's true. The world of perception and beliefs definitely tints truth. 

 

But im just trying to provide a counter point or play devils advocate, if you will. 

 

That being that ... doesn't everyone have their own version of "truth" ?  Even if it's completely based in belief and perceptions. How are we to say that is not 100% truth? Why is our view of truth more true than someone else ?

 

I would consider it self-evident that one's beliefs are not 100% correct. 

 

The view you're suggesting, the idea that truth is relative, and that if one believes something, then it's true in a sense, at least for them, isn't logical imo.

 

Things are what they are, not what they seem.

 

Btw I know I added a few ideas to your words, because that was the world view which fits with the concepts you mentioned. Didn't mean to imply you said exactly what I said.

[beingnature]

One time i thought about this and my thought was like every animal and humans have a different perception...how would it be if one would put everything together back then i was into smoking lots of weed that explains this nonsense... haha nonsense is an interesting word but maybe because i had one glass to much  honeywine

[Fa Xin]

4 hours ago, roger said:

 

I would consider it self-evident that one's beliefs are not 100% correct. 

 

The view you're suggesting, the idea that truth is relative, and that if one believes something, then it's true in a sense, at least for them, isn't logical imo.

 

Things are what they are, not what they seem.

 

Btw I know I added a few ideas to your words, because that was the world view which fits with the concepts you mentioned. Didn't mean to imply you said exactly what I said.

I have no world view, just saying everyone has their own perspectives. 

[roger]

On August 23, 2017 at 8:06 PM, Fa Xin said:

I have no world view, just saying everyone has their own perspectives. 

 

Btw sorry if I came across as pompous or subtly aggressive.

 

I agree with the Taoist principle that softness and humility are generally the best approach to human interaction.

 

Sometimes I fail in that practice unintentionally or because of my own weakness and fear.

 

Peace.

Edited August 25, 2017 by roger

[Fa Xin]

6 hours ago, roger said:

 

Btw sorry if I came across as pompous or subtly aggressive.

 

I agree with the Taoist principle that softness and humility are generally the best approach to human interaction.

 

Sometimes I fail in that practice unintentionally or because of my own weakness and fear.

 

Peace.

You didn't come off that way at all.

sorry if I gave that impression with my short answer.

 

All good my friend.

 

I do agree that there is one truth, and we - as humans with our preferences and issues - tend to see things differently than that truth. 

 

For me, a big part of noticing I wasn't seeing truth, was being open to everyone else's views. By accepting everyone's perspectives as "how they are" and seeing how there's 7 billion perspectives on this earth and that none are any more true or false than the other - they're just different perspectives. This really helped me in seeing what was "just there". 

 

Because if other people's perspectives are

part of"oneness", then their views would have to be considered "what is" as well. Which would make it "their truth". Not THE truth - but something I needed to accept. Part of the whole. 

 

This stuff is all hard to explain...

Threads like this really get me thinking ... that's the most important part. 

 

Cheers!

Edited August 25, 2017 by Fa Xin

[Hancock]

On 7/22/2017 at 4:29 AM, roger said:

We don't see things exactly as they are.

 

This fact hit me hard today.

There's a way to cut thru perceptual bias an see the underlying truth in everything. There's also ways to see from another's perspective, human, tree, animal, even inaniminate objects.

 

Try these things.

 

Step one.

 

Feel your stomach internally like if your sensing if you're hungry. Then stay with that sense, an let it move on its own an just perceive. 

 

 

Step two.

Now being familiar with your capacity to sense, focus on something around you. Sense inside it the same way you did yourself. 

It'll take time but you'll begin to experience that object, person, animal, plant, etc state of existence . Even some of their memories. Just go with it allowing yourself to let go.

When your done, sense the inside of yourself til u feel solidly you again.

 

A tip, when sensing don't absorb or try to hold onto what your sensing, it drains. Instead allow it, this will harmonise an empower the sensor an sensee. Don't ask why, this is just something we humans are capable of. Trying to explain it without having done it, is usually useless cause it's something experiential.

 

 

Step two point five

As you're sensing the person or whatever, you can guide yourself to see out of their eyes, or taste what they taste.

 

It's weird. But a cool tool to help us see outside ourselves, it's almost like a baptism of realization that we are not what we think or feel or even perceive.

[Stosh]

I dont think thats true. You said people cant know what its like to be black ,if they havent lived it. (paraphrased)  And you also denied someones ability to analyze you, same reason. So you cannot see through others eyes figuratively speaking, not memories , nor just plain ol visual data which is such falsity , I dont need to prove it. 

You shold be banned for being hostile, calling people and just plain spouting fake stuff.  Hancock ,In the movie , was a malcontent , jerk alcoholic , and blamed everyone else for his own flaws. You claim that as being accurate to your own personality. You say your friends tell you the same thing. Hancock , in the movie,  had to come to some new realizations and just absorb some imput for his own benefit, youre not Rosa Parks or Kunta Kinte , 

I await your blind retaliation with my middle finger extended and sentiment already disclosed. 

 

[Fa Xin]

I haven't been able to see others perspectives from my seat in the crowd.

 

I think thats the point though. Learning to develop wisdom and compassion, even though we don't fully understand. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Fa Xin

[Fa Xin]

15 hours ago, Hancock said:

There's a way to cut thru perceptual bias an see the underlying truth in everything. There's also ways to see from another's perspective, human, tree, animal, even inaniminate objects.

 

Try these things.

 

Step one.

 

Feel your stomach internally like if your sensing if you're hungry. Then stay with that sense, an let it move on its own an just perceive. 

 

 

Step two.

Now being familiar with your capacity to sense, focus on something around you. Sense inside it the same way you did yourself. 

It'll take time but you'll begin to experience that object, person, animal, plant, etc state of existence . Even some of their memories. Just go with it allowing yourself to let go.

When your done, sense the inside of yourself til u feel solidly you again.

 

A tip, when sensing don't absorb or try to hold onto what your sensing, it drains. Instead allow it, this will harmonise an empower the sensor an sensee. Don't ask why, this is just something we humans are capable of. Trying to explain it without having done it, is usually useless cause it's something experiential.

 

 

Step two point five

As you're sensing the person or whatever, you can guide yourself to see out of their eyes, or taste what they taste.

 

It's weird. But a cool tool to help us see outside ourselves, it's almost like a baptism of realization that we are not what we think or feel or even perceive.

 

Not sure if this works. 

However I'm beginning to see a lot of far out feats are indeed possible  so who knows?

 

I do appreciate your willingness to think outside the box and move beyond your local mind and body. 

 

Thinking like this this lets us push the envelope of what we are capable of. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Fa Xin

[Hancock]

3 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Not sure if this works. 

However I'm beginning to see a lot of far out feats are indeed possible  so who knows?

 

I do appreciate your willingness to think outside the box and move beyond your local mind and body. 

 

Thinking like this this lets us push the envelope of what we are capable of. 

Did you try it out, if so message me about your effort an ill help you tweak it.

[Fa Xin]

5 minutes ago, Hancock said:

Did you try it out, if so message me about your effort an ill help you tweak it.

Hi Hancock 

 

no I haven't tried it yet. I don't think my skills are that good 😊 

 

thanks though 🙏 

 

[Hancock]

2 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

Hi Hancock 

 

no I haven't tried it yet. I don't think my skills are that good 😊 

 

thanks though 🙏 

 

It's simplified because skillwise you dont have to be good. It is just sensing inside yourself, something we do automatically when we are tired or hungry. Then it's extending that sense consciously with whatever magic or science in this universe that lets us do it, we sense in others. Then even develop a target to sense specific things based on our intentions.

 

No meditation or candles or incense or guru required, just an awareness of the possibility and the effort to try fly or fail.

 

If you give it a shot an have trouble feel free to message for help with it.