This world is not real

[Marblehead]

4 hours ago, wstein said:

Even more problematic is that most of what passes for experience is actually memories of experiences. Even in ordinary situations, memory is less than perfect.

This is, IMO, an important understanding we all should become aware of at some point in our life.

 

 

[allinone]

24 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

This is, IMO, an important understanding we all should become aware of at some point in our life.

 

 

 

In experiences there are no self or selves. Experiences are merit accumulations.

[Marblehead]

Just now, allinone said:

 

In experiences there are no self or selves. Experiences are merit accumulations.

No, I'm not going to go there with you.  But I still like what I quoted from you above.

 

Keep in mind, my world is real.

 

[allinone]

Just now, Marblehead said:

No, I'm not going to go there with you.  But I still like what I quoted from you above.

 

Keep in mind, my world is real.

 

 

is your world real because you feel pain? is that only thing you can remind yourself of reality. So you have said previously tyou don't subscribe to suffering. So that means you avoid reality.

[allinone]

5 hours ago, wstein said:

I did not suggest that.

IF in fact you were experiencing an actual life, then it stops when the life ends. If you were dreaming or imagining a life, then you can continue to experience it.

Further, as per dreaming, 'experiencing' has little to do with the reality of the things being experienced. As such, experiences tell nothing about how real the context of that experience was. Even more problematic is that most of what passes for experience is actually memories of experiences. Even in ordinary situations, memory is less than perfect.

 

basically reality is pool of water. I use my hand to take some of it, and use my mouth to take a sip, and that sip is going to my pool and through vessels it reaches to my brain and i get ecstatic.

 

Sense organ consciousness connects to the heart living world, its ruled by female deity. It is what dream is. That bottom is connected to ldt, little head etc.

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So there is two channels, has to be "seen"(gone through) and the uniting, sameness, spatiality, womb is what we focus next. What after that next is as import as pregnating.

--

So is there actually a real world or not. But that what is right now a round world is round because we couldn't get straight through it.

Edited July 26, 2017 by allinone

[Anastasia]

What our five senses are telling us is real, but there is more than what we can see, hear, smell, taste and touch.

[allinone]

14 minutes ago, Anastasia said:

What our five senses are telling us is real, but there is more than what we can see, hear, smell, taste and touch.

 

but to get the fluids going, to turn the wheel, even bland food can make it happen over time, because you don't get full of it so you will feel pain in stomach but over time you get used to it and notice you even like it. All this made because pain took you so low that food is not bland anymore but pretty tasty.

[allinone]

don't believe? go camping and take with you 24H Nato food and eat it, lets see.

 

that quality what is trained. It will get things done without doing them and then start capitalize on it. Let the ignorants run and do things for you instead.

 

peeps think that locking up someone bc of crime that it is a punishment? person actually who deserve punishment are the ones who locks you up for being ignorant.

 

the things what people buy are 90 percent impulsive. So these are more like collectioner fetish, so its okay if i take them, i liquidiate these things again. So again crooks do the nice ones a favor, without crooks your shyt aint worth anything.

[allinone]

those who lock you up are illuminati fetish, who believes that there is more to see than your own ass.

---

get it? when everything goes downhill we try to save our own ass only. The eye is up there sees all.

Edited July 26, 2017 by allinone

[Marblehead]

11 hours ago, allinone said:

 

is your world real because you feel pain? is that only thing you can remind yourself of reality. So you have said previously tyou don't subscribe to suffering. So that means you avoid reality.

You are so far off on this one I'm thinking you thought you were posting on a different forum.

 

My world is real because I have no even one single reason to thing it isn't.  Therefore, not just the fact that I can feel piin but everything in my world is real.  And even my chair is real.  And you are real as far as I know.  At least someone is typing on a computer using your login name.

 

Suffering.  No, you are off the wall again,  Suffering is psychological.  Pain is natural for almost all people.  Suffering is real only for those who can't handle the realities in their life.

 

 

[Marblehead]

11 hours ago, allinone said:

 

In experiences there are no self or selves. Experiences are merit accumulations.

I wish you would get real.  You are an aspect of the manifest Dao.

 

[Stonehouse]

Let's assume the world is not real. 

What is real? 

Is nothing real? 

In that case, upon what are you hanging your hat with this word reality? 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Stonehouse

[wstein]

14 hours ago, allinone said:

 

basically reality is pool of water. I use my hand to take some of it, and use my mouth to take a sip, and that sip is going to my pool and through vessels it reaches to my brain and i get ecstatic.

 

Sense organ consciousness connects to the heart living world, its ruled by female deity. It is what dream is. That bottom is connected to ldt, little head etc.

-------

So is there actually a real world or not. But that what is right now a round world is round because we couldn't get straight through it.

As per your analogy, there is this 'real' 'pool of water'. I will note that in this analogy, that pool of water in no way depends on you, what you experience, or what you know (with which I agree). Perhaps 'you' can sample the pool directly or perhaps 'you' only have some crude senses to do so or perhaps you are in the pool but can't sense it in any way. In all cases, your experiences do nothing to indicate the reality of the pool.

 

In all probability you are part of the pool.

[taoguy]

Hmm... but by implying there is something unreal, you start to think that there is 'something' else that is real apart from the unreal. Rejecting the unreal, you think there is a realm apart from the unreal which is empty. Emptiness however is not real or unreal, it is uncreated, unchanged and undestroyed, and most importantly unconditioned. It becomes a question of whether something is perceived or not perceived - aka the duality of perception and non-perception - but emptiness lies even outside of this arupa (immaterial) domain.

 

A mirror reflects phenomena within it as reflections and at no point has it truly departed or been separate because the reflections are part of the mirror and are not separate from it. They seem separate but the images are all within the mirror itself.

 

The first stage is experiencing there is a mirror and actively cleaning the mirror, thinking phenomena to be the dust particles that obscure its image. But if originally there is no "mirror", how can a dust particle land on it (illusions and delusions) - and what kind of cleaning or rejecting of the 'unreal' will ever lead you to bodhi? I suppose in the end the entire mirror itself is an illusion, just like a 'self' is an illusion - and that the only truth is interconnectedness of all beings as one universal whole.

Edited July 27, 2017 by taoguy

[Marblehead]

Hi Taoguy,

 

That is one beautiful mix of philosophies.  You caused me to think and process.

 

Talking about emptiness is a waste of time because emptiness has no attributes.

 

I don't even talk about Dao much anymore because there too are no definable attributes.

 

And to talk about illusions and delusions is pretty much a waste of time too because they are individual experiences and can be realized by only the holder of particular illusions and delusions.

 

We can talk about the physical, material universe though.  Here there is an object.  Our subjective realizations of that object may differ but the object itself is what it is at any given point in time.

 

We can also make assumptions about the non- physical aspects of the universe.  But these are only assumptions - statements from ignorance.  (We can know the unknowable.)

 

[allinone]

ok, let it be real then. Does it matter?

 

you can use whatever object for contemplation. And sometimes insights rises, but these are not real too, because they don't matter. Or visions, or feelings etc whatever they don't matter.

 

can we move along. Its not me who creates this reality and decide how things are. What i do is ask and contact who has power and pick a side what is host and follow that.

[Marblehead]

I speak in favor of physical reality in order to negate any nihilistic thoughts any one who reads my posts.

 

Thinking that we have no control over what happens in our life is nihilistic.  So is thinking that nothing is real and therefore nothing matters.

 

And besides, I am, after all, a Materialist.

 

[allinone]

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

I speak in favor of physical reality in order to negate any nihilistic thoughts any one who reads my posts.

 

Thinking that we have no control over what happens in our life is nihilistic.  So is thinking that nothing is real and therefore nothing matters.

 

And besides, I am, after all, a Materialist.

 

 

You should keep mind as your focus, as it is your heaven and ruler. Without body, head doesn't exist and without head your body dies. So the delusion or ignorance is what rules your body. So you should start listen and stop ignoring. (rant)

---

you don't have to do anything. If you don't do then someone else comes and do it with a happy face.

There is a state where also you do things with a happy face and cheer up others and tell about easy life.

Edited July 27, 2017 by allinone

[Marblehead]

5 hours ago, allinone said:

 

You should keep mind as your focus, as it is your heaven and ruler. Without body, head doesn't exist and without head your body dies. So the delusion or ignorance is what rules your body. So you should start listen and stop ignoring. (rant)

Oh, I think I should focus on the body.  At my age the mind will take care of itself.

 

 

5 hours ago, allinone said:

you don't have to do anything. If you don't do then someone else comes and do it with a happy face.

There is a state where also you do things with a happy face and cheer up others and tell about easy life.

Yeah, but when I want things done it is almost always "My way".  Therefore I do most things myself.

 

I try to be an inspiring member of this forum.  Some people just aren't ready for me yet.

 

[Stonehouse]

17 hours ago, taoguy said:

The first stage is experiencing there is a mirror and actively cleaning the mirror, thinking phenomena to be the dust particles that obscure its image. But if originally there is no "mirror", how can a dust particle land on it (illusions and delusions) - and what kind of cleaning or rejecting of the 'unreal' will ever lead you to bodhi? I suppose in the end the entire mirror itself is an illusion, just like a 'self' is an illusion - and that the only truth is interconnectedness of all beings as one universal whole.

As the Patriarch Huineng said: 
 

Quote

 

Originally there is not a single thing —

Where could any dust be attracted?

 

 

It's not that the mirror or the self are illusions - the mirror and the self are part of the complete expression of the Way. It is only in wholehearted engagement and inspection of this self through concentrated practice that we may see through to the absolulte interconnectedness of all things.

The Conventional is the gate through which the Absolute is realized. The ordinary way is the Way.  Marblehead points right at this when he says:
 

Quote

We can talk about the physical, material universe though.  Here there is an object.  Our subjective realizations of that object may differ but the object itself is what it is at any given point in time.

To quote Shitou Xiqian in "Harmony of Difference and Equality"

 

Quote

Light and dark oppose one another
like the front and back foot in walking.

Each of the myriad things has its merit,
expressed according to function and place.

Phenomena exist; box and lid fit.
principle responds; arrow points meet.

Or, as Dogen concludes from this in his "Genjo Koan"
 

Quote

To carry the self forward and illuminate myriad things is delusion. That myriad things come forth and illuminate the self is awakening. [...] To study the Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things. When actualized by myriad things, your body and mind as well as the bodies and minds of others drop away. No trace of realization remains, and this no-trace continues endlessly.

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Stonehouse

[allinone]

feelings layer is type of sensations what are receptive. That makes it difficult. Since it feels like you lose and going downhill.

 

12 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I try to be an inspiring member of this forum.  Some people just aren't ready for me yet.

 

it doesn't matter at all what you talk. If i will concentrate what you talk then that is just i squeeze my forehead and make a pattern and make it digestable for you, so you can think that i actually read what you say and you feel positive feeling.

 

[Marblehead]

I have no layers.  I peeled the onion a long time ago.

 

Well, you go ahead on.  The only interest I have in you is that you don't get yourself banned.  That has been my goal from the get-go.  What else you do in your life I have no control over and really have no desire to have any control.

 

And no, I'm not going down hill.  I am on level ground, and well grounded.

 

I read you when you post in threads I am following.  I don't follow you and have no intent to do so.  In all the other threads you post in, for me it is like you have said nothing as I have not read any of those posts.

 

Now, take good care of yourself and don't worry about me.  I'll be fine no matter what happens in my life.

 

[Hancock]

Here's paradox of reality and perceptions and here's how to solve it.

 

 

Let's equate reality to a tree. You go outside and find a tree, your mind an instincts tell you multiple uses etc for this tree.

Now go an look at the tree but mentally stay silent, don't describe it at all, just perceive this whatever it is in front of you.

The tree existed when you called it a tree. The tree existed when you allowed it to be what it was.  Both are real to you, one is for practicality, naming the tree to have an u understanding an being able to use the experience as a reference point. The other is perceiving directly this thing without projecting your ideas onto it. It was real before you, an will be real after you.

 

Our convoluted sense of self however only considers what we name an can mentally grasp to be reality. No one ever told us there was another way to see the world than thru what's mentally practical, we can see it for what it is.

 

Reality isn't our interpretation, yet if I choose to act, I just use my interpretation of reality as a reference point. That confuses a lot of people and I hope that helped clear things up for someone.

 

Oh, magic an that kind of thing work because we isolate our frame of reference an focus on the outcome to alter what seems so factual to our minds but in essence is fluid and capable of more than what we mentally experience with the object or person.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Zenmode

[allinone]

I walk on earth. But its not me who is walking, i command the body. How different body parts are accessed are mindstreamed. The more i open the mind the more bottelnecked i am, because i need use codes to access and do things, initiate processes what then i need wait and then can access and do.

 

[allinone]

44 minutes ago, Zenmode said:

Oh, magic an that kind of thing work because we isolate our frame of reference an focus on the outcome to alter what seems so factual to our minds but in essence is fluid and capable of more than what we mentally experience with the object or person.

 

i don't really believe in magic other than there has to be a medium a carrier, and that known then there is no magic but defineable product.

But i believe in God, an archidect. It made systems and things.