Mair 10:2

[Marblehead]

Do you, sir, not know of the age of ultimate integrity?  Long ago, there were the clansmen Jungch'eng, Tat'ing, Pohuang, Chungyang, Lilu, Lihsŭ, Hsienyŭan, Hohsii, Tsunlu, Chujung, Fuhsi, and Shennung.  {{All twelve of these individuals were mythical emperors and kings or legendary founders of Chinese civilization.  Only a few of them are even mentioned in the early histories.  It is likely that over half of them were invented by the author of this chapter.  Most of their names have a fairly transparent meaning that reflects their supposed role in the invention of civilization, such as "appearance completed," "great hall," "elder/earl/uncle resplendent," "center," "grain ripe," "black / pair of domestic animals, carriage, awe-inspiring crab, venerable stove," "invoke fusing," "the first man," and "the divine farmer."}}  At that time, the people knotted ropes to keep records; they considered their food to be savory, their clothes to be beautiful, their customs to be pleasurable, their dwellings to be secure.  They could gaze across at the neighboring state and hear the sounds of its dogs and chickens, but the people would never travel back and forth till they died of old age.  Such a time as this was one of ultimate government.  Now, however, we have arrived at a situation where people crane their necks and stand on tiptoe, saying, "There's a worthy man at such-and-such a place."  And they rush off to him carrying whatever provisions they can muster.  Thus, within the family they abandon their parents and outside they leave the service of the ruler.  Their footsteps extend unbroken across the territories of the feudal lords, their chariot tracks criss-cross a thousand tricents away.  This, then, results from the error of superiors who are overly fond of knowledge.

When superiors are genuinely fond of knowledge but lack the Way, all under heaven will be in great confusion.  How do we know this is so?  The more knowledge there is of bows, crossbows, hand-nets, stringed arrows, and snares, the more the birds in the sky above are thrown into confusion.  The more knowledge there is of hooks, bait, nets, throw-nets, pull-nets, and basket traps, the more the fish in the water below are thrown into confusion.  The more knowledge there is of palings, pitfalls, rabbit nets, and gins, the more the animals in the marshes are thrown into confusion.  The more varieties of cunning, deception, slipperiness, talk of "hard and white," prevarication, claims of "identical" and "different" there are, the more the common people will be deluded by disputation.  Therefore, whenever all under heaven is in great confusion, the fault lies in fondness of knowledge.  Thus, all men under heaven know how to seek what they do not know, but no one knows how to seek what he already knows.  All men know how to condemn what they consider to be bad, but no one knows how to condemn what they consider to be good, and so there is great confusion.  Thus, they rebel against the brightness of the sun and moon above, consume the essence of the mountains and rivers below, and disrupt the procession of the four seasons in between.  From wriggling insects to the tiniest flying creatures, there are none that would not lose their natures.

Great, indeed, is the confusion that is brought to all under heaven from fondness for knowledge!  From the Three Dynasties on down, so it has been.  The plain people are neglected, while the fussing flatterers find favor.  The placidity of nonaction is rejected, while garrulously expressed ideas find favor.  It is this garrulousness that has brought confusion to all under heaven.

 

[Taoist Texts]

11 hours ago, Marblehead said:

awe-inspiring crab,

Like.

[Marblehead]

Maybe that was the Blue (coconut) Crab?

 

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Maybe that was the Blue (coconut) Crab?

 

that would be awesome.

 

Alas, no. Mair is being funny again. Hè xū-shì was believed to be the Fire Emperor. He even has a pic

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

Could you explain, its a play on his name? What was his contribution to society? ( I want credit for steamed blue crabs, though ,if no one took credit for that yet. ,, absolutely a marvelous feast food. ) 

[Taoist Texts]

Bon appetit)

 

As to name [hè xū ]  赫胥 the chinese wiki explains that he was one of forgotten emperors from high antiquity about whom only the name is known.

https://baike.baidu.com/item/赫胥氏

 

A 7th cent. writer informs that He-xu: 

 

 成玄英疏：“ 赫胥，上古帝王也。亦言有赫然之德，使民胥附，故曰赫胥 。

 

was an emperor in high antiquity About him it is said that, possessing awesome and terrifying virtue (He), he organized (Xu) people, making them to assist each other.. Therefore they called him He-xu.

 

The second character 胥 xū (all, assist, to store)

(1)  To assist: 與人相胥 (AC) to assist others.
(2)  (AC) to wait: 胥後命 to wait for further order.
(3)  (AC) to observe: 于胥斯原 to observe these plains.

蟹胥 (xie-xu crabs together) or shortened to 胥 xu  is a name of a sauce or a condiment made of crabs. Thats the only connection between this ancient hero and crabs)

Edited July 26, 2017 by Taoist Texts

[Marblehead]

That's for the work.

 

Maybe we could use someone like that today.

 

All this "what's in it for me" stuff is getting boring.

 

 

[Stosh]

5 hours ago, Marblehead said:

That's for the work.

 

Maybe we could use someone like that today.

 

All this "what's in it for me" stuff is getting boring.

 

 

Its an impression I have, that the legalist reading of taoist canon hinges on this very thing, that virtue either ,has a selfish core , or self interest leads to mostly the same conclusions or results ,  as public interest does. ( with a more genuine-uncarved  foundation ) . Natural creatures , animals , operate out of  instinct for self preservation,  and so humans following the tao of nature , would also be.  The paradigm that only some priestly caste can serve as the masters of , or teachers of virtue, is challenged. This pervasive idea that morality must be delineated and inculcated , from the hand of other men , relies on the idea that individuals are un-enlightened whilst society or a god  IS. 

[Michael Sternbach]

6 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Its an impression I have, that the legalist reading of taoist canon hinges on this very thing, that virtue either ,has a selfish core , or self interest leads to mostly the same conclusions or results ,  as public interest does. ( with a more genuine-uncarved  foundation ) . Natural creatures , animals , operate out of  instinct for self preservation,  and so humans following the tao of nature , would also be.  The paradigm that only some priestly caste can serve as the masters of , or teachers of virtue, is challenged. This pervasive idea that morality must be delineated and inculcated , from the hand of other men , relies on the idea that individuals are un-enlightened whilst society or a god  IS. 

 

Make this universal interest (rather than public interest), and you are on the same page with the Dao.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Michael Sternbach

[Stosh]

I accept that modification.