indoor training vs outdoor training

[Wells]

Quote Waysun Liao, Tai Chi Classics:

"T'ai Chi masters traditionally taught their students to use meditative practice to develop ch'i awareness. Such a training program would require a longer period of time to complete than other methods; in this way the master would have time to observe the student's attitude and personality and determine whether or not to continue the program of instruction. Otherwise, the student could develop ch'i awareness for unacceptable reasons, such as poor attitude, ego, or wanting to be stronger than others. If such motivations emerged, the teacher would discontinue instruction without giving the student such key techniques as condensing breathing, which is the main process used to convert ch'i into internal power."

 

What many people don't understand is that there are training methods for outdoor-students and training methods for indoor-students.

The difference is that indoor methods are much more powerful for cultivation than outdoor methods.

In legit Tai Chi for example, to every Tai Chi moving meditation exercise (outdoor method), there is a Nei Kung exercise (indoor method), both usually sharing the same name. The Tai Chi moving meditation exercise is about 80% physical and 20% mental, the corresponding Nei Kung exercise is about 20% physical and 80% mental, which explains why the corresponding Nei Kung exercises are so much more effective. Only those considered worthy ("indoor students") are taught the Nei Kung exercises, therefore allowing them a level of cultivation impossible to achieve for those who only use Tai Chi moving meditation exercises ("outdoor students").

 

I assume that this is the case in every legit internal martial art system.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Wells

[Hancock]

That sucks that some people have to be considered worthy. I personally have a natural chi awareness, an find it difficult to meditate. I begin projecting or falling asleep almost immediately. Anyhow, did they say in that book what the proper intentions are for learning what they were teaching bro?

[Wells]

1 hour ago, Zenmode said:

That sucks that some people have to be considered worthy.

 

That's better than having hordes of super-powered maniacs running around.

 

1 hour ago, Zenmode said:

Anyhow, did they say in that book what the proper intentions are for learning what they were teaching bro?

 

No, that's not defined more clearly.

[Mudfoot]

For a teacher, the teaching is precious. 

 

And when teaching the higher levels, you reveal things important to yourself. 

 

So,  a student that creates trouble and argument while learning the basics might not be the one you want to teach more to, because you will have a more personal relation in that situation. 

 

And a student who have trouble grasping the basics, or trouble practicing the basics, might not be the one that should learn more advanced methods. 

 

The idea that the students should be worthy is different from the notion that you are buying a service from the teacher. 

 

Fair?  Not relevant. 

 

The best way? Not relevant. 

 

If I was an active teacher, I would prefere students whose personality I could get along with, and ability to grasp what I was teaching. 

[Hancock]

4 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Most masters are skilled because they see the garbage in ourselves and ego complexes, and still only see potential. Carving the sculpture out of the marble is the difficult task, and the student and teacher do it together. If the student isn't cooperative or disciplined enough, he or she may not remain long even outdoor. I  earned my way into three indoor circles through hard work, trust, humility, and understanding culture and tradition, but in the beginning, I had no clue about it. The fact my teachers had patience with me is why I stayed with them, for they believed in me more than I did, and they saw the skill affecting me, as well as how I used it without abusing it whenever life tested me. 

 

You're fortunate your teachers gave you patience and treated you with dignity bro. Mine have seen i work hard or knew my circumstances and have taken advantage, but I keep learning and doing my best. I believe the teacher's show off faith in a student, whether genuine or not, influences how a student succeeds.

In the beginning I've been humble and compliant to a fault, yet that served only to bring out the baser parts of nearly every teacher I've had. I know now though it's cause I deal with nonphysical forces as well though that influences the people around me. 

 

Earl Grey, earning your way is great bro. From our personal dealings, you gave up on me because you couldn't see that even though we see different ways that we are just doing what's appropriate for our personal situations. An you've got a bit of well earned pride, but that doesn't mean it's okay to not people with dignity or think you're better than others because of your chosen lifestyle. You've got major accomplishments, you know people, you're special, you are a great success story. Just remember, we all eliminate our bowels and therefore are equally human. Lol don't lose touch of the facts that you are a man, dont let hubris take you over. 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

For a teacher, the teaching is precious. 

 

And when teaching the higher levels, you reveal things important to yourself. 

 

So,  a student that creates trouble and argument while learning the basics might not be the one you want to teach more to, because you will have a more personal relation in that situation. 

 

And a student who have trouble grasping the basics, or trouble practicing the basics, might not be the one that should learn more advanced methods. 

 

The idea that the students should be worthy is different from the notion that you are buying a service from the teacher. 

 

Fair?  Not relevant. 

 

The best way? Not relevant. 

 

If I was an active teacher, I would prefere students whose personality I could get along with, and ability to grasp what I was teaching. 

Mudfoot, from a personality point of view your words are sound. I've personally had teachers who disagreed with me or. Caused arguments, when I didn't completely agree with their worldview automatically. Even though I continued on and grasped everything they taught with no dilemma, I was seen as something less than and treated without dignity.

Personally I tend to stumble onto the weirder sides of things, ill see chi emissions from the people around me, or deal with nonphysical beings, hear thoughts, feel people true intention, etc and every teacher so far seems unwilling to assist in my development because of their own ego. They all tell me how great they are an that's why they are sought out, Eric Randolph and David were like that. I would hear their thoughts an attitude towards me, yet I maintained. 

 

I'm a special case though and I understand that it's difficult for people nowadays to deal with situations outside their comfort zones, I mean during GFM stuff moves around in my house an it's like a beacon for nonphysical beings as well as a gateway to projection an visions for me. Not every teacher is equipped for that or able to adapt to help someone going thru that. 

 

All my training except with Hughy has been indoor. 

[Hancock]

Earl Grey, bless you bro. still unopened to other views, take care. Guess I should stay on topic.

 

Indoor training with hughy was very limiting but helped more focus, whereas outdoor training seemed somehow more dynamic. I really have had bad teachers but I get different things from indoor and outdoor.  Outdoor it's like breathing unrestrained and there's more available things to work with, but tend to be more or less conducive to beginning physical and Qi development.

Indoor is better practically, because of privacy. Though unless there's good chi flow the practice is less dynamic, but more concentrated and it is easier to focus. 

 

Good points to each. 

[blue eyed snake]

53 minutes ago, Zenmode said:

 

You're fortunate your teachers gave you patience and treated you with dignity bro. Mine have seen i work hard or knew my circumstances and have taken advantage, but I keep learning and doing my best. I believe the teacher's show off faith in a student, whether genuine or not, influences how a student succeeds.

In the beginning I've been humble and compliant to a fault, yet that served only to bring out the baser parts of nearly every teacher I've had. I know now though it's cause I deal with nonphysical forces as well though that influences the people around me. 

 

Earl Grey, earning your way is great bro. From our personal dealings, you gave up on me because you couldn't see that even though we see different ways that we are just doing what's appropriate for our personal situations. An you've got a bit of well earned pride, but that doesn't mean it's okay to not people with dignity or think you're better than others because of your chosen lifestyle. You've got major accomplishments, you know people, you're special, you are a great success story. Just remember, we all eliminate our bowels and therefore are equally human. Lol don't lose touch of the facts that you are a man, dont let hubris take you over. 

 

 

 

Mudfoot, from a personality point of view your words are sound. I've personally had teachers who disagreed with me or. Caused arguments, when I didn't completely agree with their worldview automatically. Even though I continued on and grasped everything they taught with no dilemma, I was seen as something less than and treated without dignity.

Personally I tend to stumble onto the weirder sides of things, ill see chi emissions from the people around me, or deal with nonphysical beings, hear thoughts, feel people true intention, etc and every teacher so far seems unwilling to assist in my development because of their own ego. They all tell me how great they are an that's why they are sought out, Eric Randolph and David were like that. I would hear their thoughts an attitude towards me, yet I maintained. 

 

I'm a special case though and I understand that it's difficult for people nowadays to deal with situations outside their comfort zones, I mean during GFM stuff moves around in my house an it's like a beacon for nonphysical beings as well as a gateway to projection an visions for me. Not every teacher is equipped for that or able to adapt to help someone going thru that. 

 

All my training except with Hughy has been indoor. 

 

 

maybe that is you problem.

 

i'm glad i'm just an idiot

[Hancock]

Yeah blue snake, I only was told recently that I was a special case. I thought I was always under par because I was just not good at things, but my new lessons have taught me that what makes me special is because of things I thought were natural but aren't available to everyone unless they train hard. My talent Always made others upset an that got in the way of their teaching me, one reason is because it took them years to get what I already had naturally.

 

I've recently begun claiming my talent instead of seeing myself as less than. I am what I am blue snake, lol I like how you said your an idiot. That's how I begun everything, I knew I didn't know an have no hesitation bout being completely open to a new way of doing things. Even then if it goes against what I knew, I compartmentalize an do whatever the new thing is. You're a smart one Blue Snake, wish you good stuff bro

[blue eyed snake]

On 7/27/2017 at 7:23 PM, Zenmode said:

Yeah blue snake, I only was told recently that I was a special case. I thought I was always under par because I was just not good at things, but my new lessons have taught me that what makes me special is because of things I thought were natural but aren't available to everyone unless they train hard. My talent Always made others upset an that got in the way of their teaching me, one reason is because it took them years to get what I already had naturally.

 

I've recently begun claiming my talent instead of seeing myself as less than. I am what I am blue snake, lol I like how you said your an idiot. That's how I begun everything, I knew I didn't know an have no hesitation bout being completely open to a new way of doing things. Even then if it goes against what I knew, I compartmentalize an do whatever the new thing is. You're a smart one Blue Snake, wish you good stuff bro

 

err, that was not what I meant, 

...searching on the web...slithering through websites, ah, here it is.

 

http://www.tienshan.net/mastery.html

 

 

 

even though, for several reasons,  I would not regard this as an adequate representation. I think i now am best represented by the term big potato. Although every once in a while I fall back to the great expert phase..

I remember when I started, i felt great, surpassing everybody, very special with the siddhi's happening. Of course my teacher blew that, like this

 

and again, and again. Oh my, was  I angry... 

 

so now I'm happy to be an idiot and expect I'll stay that way.

Grateful that I've met my teacher who seems to be an expert with that much needed needle.

 

oh, and it's sister actually,

beware, there are more females here. Do not take for granted that it is guys you're talking to.

 

edit: edit website to chart

Edited July 29, 2017 by blue eyed snake

[dawei]

1 hour ago, Zenmode said:

Earl Grey, bless you bro. still unopened to other views, take care. Guess I should stay on topic.

 

~~~ ADMIN Notice ~~~

 

I'm seeing some kind of tension playing out in more than one thread about your sharing personal names and/or experiences with someone here.  

 

I hope you can respect that others may not appreciate it and there is a messaging system or just use email if there is something to work through.

 

We like that folks share their actual experiences but not at the expense of other members, particularly when they have asked to not share their name, etc.

 

best

 

[Hancock]

1 minute ago, dawei said:

 

~~~ ADMIN Notice ~~~

 

I'm seeing some kind of tension playing out in more than one thread about your sharing personal names and/or experiences with someone here.  

 

I hope you can respect that others may not appreciate it and there is a messaging system or just use email if there is something to work through.

 

We like that folks share their actual experiences but not at the expense of other members, particularly when they have asked to not share their name, etc.

 

best

 

Why didn't you message me privately about this if this is an issue?

 

8 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

err, that was not what I meant, 

...searching on the web...slithering through websites, ah, here it is.

 

 

 

even though, for several reasons,  I would not regard this as an adequate representation. I think i now am best represented by the term big potato. Although every once in a while I fall back to the great expert phase..

I remember when I started, i felt great, surpassing everybody, very special with the siddhi's happening. Of course my teacher blew that, like this

 

and again, and again. Oh my, was  I angry... 

 

so now I'm happy to be an idiot and expect I'll stay that way.

Grateful that I've met my teacher who seems to be an expert with that much needed needle.

 

oh, and it's sister actually,

beware, there are more females here. Do not take for granted that it is guys you're talking to.

Cool sis, in that classifiCation scheme I'm a natural Nothing Special, but I didn't have the lexicon to understand it it's why I'm here to learn why I'm the way I am naturally an the proper words. I like that scheme it really shows how we think of ourselves as we progress.

We are who we are. I'm not taking for granted or talking to just guys, I use masculine terminology because I'm born male. Personal preference,after a while though when sexuality liberated because instead of reproduction that energy is used for cultivation, there's no male or female just a kind of skin you originally were born into. The true part of us, naturally has no real gender. It's a strange experience. 

[Daeluin]

48 minutes ago, Zenmode said:

Yeah blue snake, I only was told recently that I was a special case. I thought I was always under par because I was just not good at things, but my new lessons have taught me that what makes me special is because of things I thought were natural but aren't available to everyone unless they train hard. My talent Always made others upset an that got in the way of their teaching me, one reason is because it took them years to get what I already had naturally.

 

I've recently begun claiming my talent instead of seeing myself as less than. I am what I am blue snake, lol I like how you said your an idiot. That's how I begun everything, I knew I didn't know an have no hesitation bout being completely open to a new way of doing things. Even then if it goes against what I knew, I compartmentalize an do whatever the new thing is. You're a smart one Blue Snake, wish you good stuff bro

 

Oddly enough, my first 2 years in training brought about some profound results.... it was in looking back upon them and studying them that I let my mind impede my progress. Humility and openness and surrender are what enable progress. Ego ever gets in the way. For those with talent, this is the hardest lesson.

 

If you are talented, then perhaps something within the celestial mechanism is working out for you - your mind wasn't part of that. I recommend doing yourself a favor by not presuming you have the ability to control things better than surrendering to dao.

 

[blue eyed snake]

12 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

~~~ ADMIN Notice ~~~

 

I'm seeing some kind of tension playing out in more than one thread about your sharing personal names and/or experiences with someone here.  

 

I hope you can respect that others may not appreciate it and there is a messaging system or just use email if there is something to work through.

 

We like that folks share their actual experiences but not at the expense of other members, particularly when they have asked to not share their name, etc.

 

best

 

 

I will stop stoking the fire then  

[Brian]

1 minute ago, dawei said:

 

~~~ ADMIN Notice ~~~

 

I'm seeing some kind of tension playing out in more than one thread about your sharing personal names and/or experiences with someone here.  

 

I hope you can respect that others may not appreciate it and there is a messaging system or just use email if there is something to work through.

 

We like that folks share their actual experiences but not at the expense of other members, particularly when they have asked to not share their name, etc.

 

best

 

I'd also point out that calling another forum member "a despicable human being" is a blatant rules violation...

 

(And the racism expressed in that first post is a bit distasteful, too.)

[blue eyed snake]

4 minutes ago, Zenmode said:

Why didn't you message me privately about this if this is an issue?

 

Cool sis, in that classifiCation scheme I'm a natural Nothing Special, but I didn't have the lexicon to understand it it's why I'm here to learn why I'm the way I am naturally an the proper words. I like that scheme it really shows how we think of ourselves as we progress.

We are who we are. I'm not taking for granted or talking to just guys, I use masculine terminology because I'm born male. Personal preference,after a while though when sexuality liberated because instead of reproduction that energy is used for cultivation, there's no male or female just a kind of skin you originally were born into. The true part of us, naturally has no real gender. It's a strange experience. 

 

i don't like the scheme much, it's far to simplistic.

oh, and i would take heed of dawei's message, we've some little rules here for behaving politely

BES

[Hancock]

8 minutes ago, Daeluin said:

 

Oddly enough, my first 2 years in training brought about some profound results.... it was in looking back upon them and studying them that I let my mind impede my progress. Humility and openness and surrender are what enable progress. Ego ever gets in the way. For those with talent, this is the hardest lesson.

 

If you are talented, then perhaps something within the celestial mechanism is working out for you - your mind wasn't part of that. I recommend doing yourself a favor by not presuming you have the ability to control things better than surrendering to dao.

 

We have only control over ourselves, and that must be earned and fought for with all available effort. Freedom scares people, ruffles feathers.

 

Heck look at the people messing with me over my honesty. The truth is people want to be comfortable in their minds and anything that doesn't fit their personal Way of comfortably is attacked, directly or indirectly.

I've said nothing dishonest and yet suddenly I've gotten heaps of negative attention because someone who I've dealt with here is more respected in this community than I am.

 

I come for community and end up fighting to maintain dignity, no wondered us enlightened types stick to being hermits. It takes a special tenacity to deal with being attacked by other people's ego. But the truth is, lingerie to learn an this is my lesson.

[Daeluin]

6 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

For a teacher, the teaching is precious. 

 

And when teaching the higher levels, you reveal things important to yourself. 

 

So,  a student that creates trouble and argument while learning the basics might not be the one you want to teach more to, because you will have a more personal relation in that situation. 

 

And a student who have trouble grasping the basics, or trouble practicing the basics, might not be the one that should learn more advanced methods. 

 

The idea that the students should be worthy is different from the notion that you are buying a service from the teacher. 

 

Fair?  Not relevant. 

 

The best way? Not relevant. 

 

If I was an active teacher, I would prefere students whose personality I could get along with, and ability to grasp what I was teaching. 

 

Well put.

 

Where I train... the teacher has gone beyond indoor/outdoor.

 

When in class, the teacher observes the whole, and what is spoken is what each of us need as a whole. Speaking is very minimal, as too many words activate our human-minds and take us away from cultivating the mind of dao.

 

When in private lessons, we practice harmonization with one another. There is a one-on-one, or one-on-two relationship, but whenever this is "taken" as the means to increase desire for a particular teaching, it impedes the operation of becoming spiritually whole, as one begins to emphasize horizontal connection to another rather than maintaining vertical development.

 

In both cases though, I feel "indoor" training is readily available. We are encouraged to avoid missing classes, and each class takes place at a different time within the season, even though they are twice a week. Every day has a different energy, and every class has different instructions - sometimes harmony is emphasized, sometimes cultivating of roots is emphasized, sometimes we learn new material, sometimes we get a lecture, sometimes we are instructed to move at natural speed, and so on, according to what we need as a whole and according to how we may best harmonize with the environmental changes. There is much to be learned from this if one listens.

 

For the student who diligently trains, the transformations come of their own. When in class, those changes are instructed with a work or half a sentence at the precise time they are needed. This matter of timing is where things become very indoor. Every other student may hear this instruction and find use of it, but for the one student who was on the threshold of a major transformation, it holds a secret that shows where the threshold is, and what to do upon reaching it.

 

To me, this type of indoor instruction is appropriate, as it keeps things relatively natural, almost entirely avoiding issues that come from mental attachments such as enabling, entitlement, co-dependence. The indoor teaching is also largely invisible, preventing issues of inheritance and so on. It is not a model for everyone, but the principles it applies may be useful to some, in their own way.

 

[Brian]

Yes, communication happens on multiple levels encoded together.  We perceive what is appropriate for us in the moment.

[Hancock]

People here have admitted to stoking the flames, an no admin has admonished them. That's clear an open targeting, I won't allow it anymore.

 

That being said, 

6 minutes ago, Daeluin said:

 

Well put.

 

Where I train... the teacher has gone beyond indoor/outdoor.

 

When in class, the teacher observes the whole, and what is spoken is what each of us need as a whole. Speaking is very minimal, as too many words activate our human-minds and take us away from cultivating the mind of dao.

 

When in private lessons, we practice harmonization with one another. There is a one-on-one, or one-on-two relationship, but whenever this is "taken" as the means to increase desire for a particular teaching, it impedes the operation of becoming spiritually whole, as one begins to emphasize horizontal connection to another rather than maintaining vertical development.

 

In both cases though, I feel "indoor" training is readily available. We are encouraged to avoid missing classes, and each class takes place at a different time within the season, even though they are twice a week. Every day has a different energy, and every class has different instructions - sometimes harmony is emphasized, sometimes cultivating of roots is emphasized, sometimes we learn new material, sometimes we get a lecture, sometimes we are instructed to move at natural speed, and so on, according to what we need as a whole and according to how we may best harmonize with the environmental changes. There is much to be learned from this if one listens.

 

For the student who diligently trains, the transformations come of their own. When in class, those changes are instructed with a work or half a sentence at the precise time they are needed. This matter of timing is where things become very indoor. Every other student may hear this instruction and find use of it, but for the one student who was on the threshold of a major transformation, it holds a secret that shows where the threshold is, and what to do upon reaching it.

 

To me, this type of indoor instruction is appropriate, as it keeps things relatively natural, almost entirely avoiding issues that come from mental attachments such as enabling, entitlement, co-dependence. The indoor teaching is also largely invisible, preventing issues of inheritance and so on. It is not a model for everyone, but the principles it applies may be useful to some, in their own way.

 

I agree that a specific format that enables those capable of self transformation thru being guided with a currriculum is definitely great for most of the masses of humanity.

Those special few that need extra attention, I personally have seen them flourish when given it and they usually have a natural good way bout them in their heart.

EG for example, helped me out of compassion and empathy. I myself don't get angry at much, it's strange but especially gifted people are different, an I'm not sure why. But All teaching should be like you implied, based on the energy of that day, indoor or outdoor.

[dawei]

1 minute ago, Zenmode said:

People here have admitted to stoking the flames, an no admin has admonished them. That's clear an open targeting, I won't allow it anymore.

 

It would be good if everyone took responsibility for their role in online exchanges... but I do get it is easier to be more like a wild west.

 

Admin or staff admonishments go on all the time, sometimes in PM or even email.  Realize, members know about 30% of what staff is doing.   If you can truly accept that, then we're getting somewhere

[Chang]

A point most worthy of note that is generally overlooked when discussing teaching and the imparting of knowledge.

 

It matters not how good your teacher may be or how wonderful the information you are given.

 

If the student is not prepared to put in the hours and effort of training for the long term then the results can amount to nothing other than mediocrity.

[Daeluin]

10 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 Better to die than to be destroyed by the unworthy, perhaps?

 

Die how? In the flesh? Does that prevent another from receiving the transmission?

 

Is direct inheritance by a so-called "indoor student" better? It would appear that sometimes such students transform the art in beautiful ways, reinvigorating its heart... while others may not have understood much beyond the surface, or beyond their teacher's ever present guidance. Does the "name" make inheritance more official than the ability to reach the heart of the teaching?

 

Once a pattern exists, it has an essence, like a musical theme. It may not bear the name of its founder, and may not be applied with the same steps, but that essence may continue to be expressed through the changing medium of time and space for as long as people are willing to listen.

 

In some cases it may simply be a matter of timing and sincerity. In other cases it may be more intentionally tended through guides. Perhaps both at once is common.

 

Easy to forget, all that about how something is more easily brought down after it is raised up; how cultivating the "value" of something or of one's self is to limit one's freedom.

 

Those who study the art of energy movement would do well to continuously study the daodejing and zhuangzi. IMO.

[Hancock]

19 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

In my experience, another difference between indoor and outdoor training besides secret techniques was the depth and openness to explore what was given to us from day one. The very first techniques I would learn from my teachers, I would dismiss as rubbish because they were so simple that there was no way I could get anything useful. It was stupid, it was a lie, I was being conned for being charged so much! But I stuck with it, both from the cost of the tuition and because I wanted to believe it was precious. Years later, I wonder why my teachers asked me for so little for the technique alone, when the real issue of training was babysitting me and my ego. 

 

Indoor training to me thus far means that besides earning it from hard work, discipline, character (especially humility), and diligence, it's also empowerment and a recognition that you deserve it. Granted, I know some teachers automatically have their children as candidates for indoor, but reality doesn't often play out that way, and in my Xin Yi lineage, late Grandmaster David ended up teaching only two students everything (one of whom became my teacher), whereas his kids barely got through 4 out of the 6 sections necessary to be a Xin Yi student, which is fine, as some people just want power instead of skill, but that's not his problem.

 

The problem thus became who would transmit the knowledge, and this is where indoor training can be a challenge because if you have to weed out so many people, the art may die out, as many have. But then again, why let people who have limited understanding and poor character represent the art? Better to die than to be destroyed by the unworthy, perhaps?

The first technique is the gateway to the who experience of training, from that an the way my teacher behaves is the foundation of the entire system an I've always taken it as a matter of life or death, for me learning has been life or death or kept me from death. I had little choice but to see things as valuable, allowing all the teachings to make sense.

My talent is extrapolation, I see a technique an know how it's done. Or connect to a teacher an know their secrets.

Scott the martial arts instructor, taught us certain move but during off time I would let my body do what it wanted naturally with the forms. He said I was doing his secret technique he had shown only 3 other students an asked how I learned it. I didn't have an answer,but he told me to do it again but I didn't know how. My body just does it. So anyone know what that is, or how i can train to purposely utilize this skill? I'm meditating an that's helping a lot.

[blue eyed snake]

28 minutes ago, Zenmode said:

People here have admitted to stoking the flames, an no admin has admonished them. That's clear an open targeting, I won't allow it anymore.

 

ah, that was quite playful really, i haven't bitten you.

[blue eyed snake]

29 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

In my experience, another difference between indoor and outdoor training besides secret techniques was the depth and openness to explore what was given to us from day one. The very first techniques I would learn from my teachers, I would dismiss as rubbish because they were so simple that there was no way I could get anything useful. It was stupid, it was a lie, I was being conned for being charged so much! But I stuck with it, both from the cost of the tuition and because I wanted to believe it was precious. Years later, I wonder why my teachers asked me for so little for the technique alone, when the real issue of training was babysitting me and my ego. 

 

put nicely earl,

 

 

29 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Indoor training to me thus far means that besides earning it from hard work, discipline, character (especially humility), and diligence, it's also empowerment and a recognition that you deserve it. Granted, I know some teachers automatically have their children as candidates for indoor, but reality doesn't often play out that way, and in my Xin Yi lineage, late Grandmaster David ended up teaching only two students everything (one of whom became my teacher), whereas his kids barely got through 4 out of the 6 sections necessary to be a Xin Yi student, which is fine, as some people just want power instead of skill, but that's not his problem.

 

read daeluins description of his teaching. This is mine

 

teacher has what could be called outdoorclasses, he dubs them chigung, but that flag is not really what is happening there. Twice a year for about ten weeks. He then says goodbye with the remark. "I'm interested to see who will be able to keep his/her level up until we meet again." He does that on purpose

 

then there are indoorclasses, dubbed " for senior students" , these are weekly the year round. don't know what's happening there but someday I might tell you.

 

In the summer he gives several workshops open for everybody, these are great! working for max 3 days together as a group, eating and somtimes sleeping together. I think these ( most of them) are to be attended when you're a senior student.

 

In wintertime no chigung , no workshops. and in early spring there is a meditation weekend, somewhere in another country, beatiful place. I've heard great things of it, but never attended yet. It's pricey because of the trip and the cost of the hotel.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

The problem thus became who would transmit the knowledge, and this is where indoor training can be a challenge because if you have to weed out so many people, the art may die out, as many have. But then again, why let people who have limited understanding and poor character represent the art? Better to die than to be destroyed by the unworthy, perhaps?

 

yes, i think that's about it.