indoor training vs outdoor training

[thelerner]

In many arts live-in was literal.  In Aikido and many traditional martial arts, there were uchideshi, literally students who lived with the master.  Long hours of training and a master servant relationship, ie the master goes to the washroom in the middle of the night, you hear his footsteps from 3 rooms away, awaken, move quickly and are at the toilet to lift his robe.  Which some reported was amazing near psychic training.  So live in students were carefully chosen, served impeccably and got indepth lessons. 

 

Few have the time and discipline to be such live in students.  In truth most traditional masters lead quiet lives with little reward beyond there love and sacrifice for there art.  Talent is an interesting aspect of training.  In many ways its a joy to have a student with dedication and natural talent.  There's also pit falls to it, not unusual for them to train, gain then go away before going extremely deep. 

 

Many teachers have pointed out dedication outways natural talent.  The slow horse, who keeps learning, gets the training down to there bones.  Not naturals but as years roll into decades they see and live the art everywhere.  Becoming masters in there own right. 

 

 

[Wells]

If you people talk in every second post about your ego and how you allegedly reduced it, fought with it or overcame it, then your ego is obviously still always bathing in the limelight of your attention.

In other words...lol!

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Wells

[blue eyed snake]

9 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Fantastic. A good teacher and community, and a lot of empowering of the students. 

 

thanks, i like praise for my sifu 

 

9 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

What drew my to my teachers were their character--style aside, I simply saw what they had (their bliss and joy, non-judgment, and love) and decided I wanted it too. I started out as a fool who wanted to "be certified to teach Tai Chi" and have something to fall back on because yoga teacher certification was too expensive and oversaturated, then seven years later, I am reading Taoist texts, have several teachers, and have simplified a lot of my self-created problems. Of course, we all have our egos that come back from time to time, and I'm no exception there...I actually use TDB as a great testing ground since I don't separate this from life away from my computer, as all is Tao. 

 

it is...

 

9 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Any teacher who can help students awaken within them this awareness then creates this "indoor" sense of not even being elite students, but more importantly, family. A good family knows you stink, but love you anyway, and remind you to take a shower so others don't have to deal with it. A good family is something you work on every day, the reward being you wake up with them, eat with them, and come home to them. The world knows your development when they say, "You came from a good family, eh?"

 

Perhaps this is another aspect of "indoor" I believe is what makes me very, very grateful for in my lineages. 

 

I do not come from a good family, but indeed, what I missed as a child, i find there.

 

thanks for bringing that to my attention.

[blue eyed snake]

9 minutes ago, thelerner said:

In many arts live-in was literal.  In Aikido and many traditional martial arts, there were uchideshi, literally students who lived with the master.  Long hours of training and a master servant relationship, ie the master goes to the washroom in the middle of the night, you hear his footsteps from 3 rooms away, awaken, move quickly and are at the toilet to lift his robe.  Which some reported was amazing near psychic training.  So live in students were carefully chosen, served impeccably and got indepth lessons. 

 

yes, there is such a student living with my teacher. Maybe his assistants have been in that kind of relation with him too. I'm not sure. And indeed, it's sort of psychic ' training' 

 

I'm one of the people that sleep over during workshops. People living closer don't. The accommodation is not really up to overnight guests. But when I'm for 3 days and nights at the dojo you see some of the relationship between uchideshi and teacher...sort of...wow

 

9 minutes ago, thelerner said:

 

Few have the time and discipline to be such live in students.  In truth most traditional masters lead quiet lives with little reward beyond there love and sacrifice for there art.  Talent is an interesting aspect of training.  In many ways its a joy to have a student with dedication and natural talent.  There's also pit falls to it, not unusual for them to train, gain then go away before going extremely deep. 

 

Many teachers have pointed out dedication outways natural talent.  The slow horse, who keeps learning, gets the training down to there bones.  Not naturals but as years roll into decades they see and live the art everywhere.  Becoming masters in there own right. 

 

Maybe...' naturals'  have their own hurdles to take 

[Hancock]

44 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

ah, that was quite playful really, i haven't bitten you.

I won't let you.

[blue eyed snake]

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

I would think you do come from a good family--your Taoist family!

 

 

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Family are often necessarily our blood relatives though, and one thing I've learned is that sages often have to deal with their blood family as their biggest challenge to awakening and walking their paths. 

 

yes, i find that's true.

there's something about that in the gospel of Thomas too, maybe reread that and see if I get some more out of it.

[blue eyed snake]

9 minutes ago, Zenmode said:

I won't let you.

 

oh, I'm pretty sure I could, but it's not interesting

 

 

 

[Hancock]

23 minutes ago, Wells said:

If you people talk in every second post about your ego and how you allegedly reduced it, fought with it or overcame it, then your ego is obviously still always in the limelight of your attention.

In other words...lol!

 

 

 

A person who overcomes their personal ego is after that near completely different. They don't self identify except as a reference point or way of communication. It's where the real battle begins. Because others sense your freedom an it puts them off because your very existence reminds them of the Cave they are still in. It becomes a challenge to deal with what was once normal for you because now you see without blinders an twlk without filters. There's a fair amount of learning involved of how to deal with people afterward.

 

It's like you're an eagle raised as a chicken, everyone is fine with you as long as you maintain your chicken identity. Something happens an you become free of your chicken identity an see yourself as you are, an eagle. You even see that others are really owls, falcon, etc but they think they are chickens. 

You tell them of your true nature an they peck at you til you agree to behavior a chicken again. Being enlightened an egoless is learning to see what we are truly, an live it, while existing on this Earth farm.

 

Hope that helps bro 

[Hancock]

3 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

oh, I'm pretty sure I could, but it's not interesting

 

 

 

I do not give you any right to harm or hurt me, if you do make any attempt you will be dealt with.

[blue eyed snake]

24 minutes ago, Zenmode said:

I do not give you any right to harm or hurt me, if you do make any attempt you will be dealt with.

 

ROTFL

 

you may take yourself a bit too serious,

 

 

 

 

 

[Hancock]

8 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

ROTFL

 

you may take yourself a bit too serious,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I take myself as I am. I drew a boundary. You felt it that's all. I've no ill intent to you.

[Wells]

1 hour ago, blue eyed snake said:

oh, I'm pretty sure I could, but it's not interesting

 

Your ego is talking, you need to work on that.

Back to topic.

[blue eyed snake]

1 minute ago, Wells said:

 

Your ego is talking, you need to work on that.

Back to topic.

 

yeah, my ego is talkative today, I don't mind that. Let her talk

[Brian]

14 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

yeah, my ego is talkative today, I don't mind that. Let her talk

"...My heart starts singing and I'm gonna let her!"

 

[blue eyed snake]

nice music, 

hadn't heard them before

 

suits the talkative ego of this evening

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Wells said:

If you people talk in every second post about your ego and how you allegedly reduced it, fought with it or overcame it, then your ego is obviously still always bathing in the limelight of your attention.

In other words...lol!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why I prefer to train outdoors ; 

 

Its in nature and I utilize  the forces of nature. 

 

People get too conditioned by their false environment if they train in doors all the time. Even  on Saturdays, when we train in the park by the river, for some reason they always face west, I get them to do a form facing the river ( south ) and all of a sudden they are confused.

 

Footwork and balance  , no doing those sliding  steps and circular, on the floor, 'drags' ... one has to step up and over and down, just like original teacher did ( even inside )  .

 

Various distractions ;  a visiting instructor, same 'style' from interstate  .... he says 'This is a nice place to train ' and face off with Bo staff  and I 'Yeah  , look at that kookaburra in the tree '  and he actually turned to look at it  ....  whack, in the knee  

 

Also  uneven terrain, how to maneuver  your opponent into obstacles,   fallen tree twigs and branches, having the sun in their eyes.  Also since we use eco (  fighting oar ) , a common technique is to  flick sand or dirt up into the attackers face  ( and in a park ... there is usually doggy - doo   ...   

 

and sometimes pretty girls  walk across the bridge or go for a dip in the river  ;   " Oh man ... she is going in topless ! "

 

'Training partner ;  " Huh ! "  turns to see , I slash him across the back with boken       

 

and in summer, go for a swim after training   

 

 

[Starjumper]

On 7/27/2017 at 0:58 PM, blue eyed snake said:

 

err, that was not what I meant, 

...searching on the web...slithering through websites, ah, here it is.

 

 

Hey, that's from my website, I drew that 'art'.  It seems best to show the page it came out of in order to present it in context =)

 

http://www.tienshan.net/mastery.html

[Starjumper]

I personally prefer training indoors rather than outdoors.  When indoors in a familiar setting it is easier to relax and focus internally and keep your eyes closed.  When outdoors there are more distractions, like wondering or looking to see if someone is watching, looking at attractive members of the opposite sex and things like that.  Also when outdoors the wind can be unsettling and mask the feeling of energy.  A more important point when working on a system that cultivates chi power is that when you are outdoors the energy 'escapes' into the distance, and it is worse if there is wind.

 

When indoors the energy that you radiate, yes powerful systems cause you to radiate energy, stays contained in the room and reflects back off the walls towards you.  The room itself becomes energized.  Similarly, when practicing indoors with a master the great deal of energy that they radiate stays in the room and is more easily absorbed by the student, which greatly accelerates their progress.  Later, when the students also begin to radiate energy the energy level in the room goes way up, to the benefit of all.

 

[blue eyed snake]

21 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Hey, that's from my website, I drew that 'art'.  It seems best to show the page it came out of in order to present it in context =)

 

http://www.tienshan.net/mastery.html

 

scuse me, did add it to original post now

[Starjumper]

35 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

scuse me, did add it to original post now

 

Thanks, but it was no problem without the link.  I was just tickled to see someone post something I did.  When I said it's best to show the link I meant best for me, not for you ... it's complicated ... and I was having a little fun, like with my previous post about indoors vs outdoors.

[silent thunder]

I oscillate on this topic of inside outside.  Sitting on ground, sitting on carpet.

 

Sometimes i am compelled to get out of my house... since 'aside from bismuth, nature doesn't build at 90 degrees'.

Yet the vast majority of my formal practice has taken place indoors, on synthetic carpet, usually about 3.5 meters above the ground.

 

I recall a fundamentalist type who was heatedly declaring at a weekend Qi Gong seminar that it was 'patently impossible to make progress practicing while wearing rubber soled shoes'.  My cousin, one of the fascilitators, overheard and countered that he had not noticed an appreciable decline in his own practice while wearing the shoes he had on at that moment, (which were the standard rubber soled kung fu type shoes). 

 

He lifted his foot then and he along with all of us was kind of startled to notice a small hole burned through his shoe at the yong chuan point.  He lifted his other foot and yup... a small, pen sized hole there too. 

 

He shrugged and said "the energy seems to find a way."

 

 

[thelerner]

Training outside.. tests you.  Its a chance to find out if your meditation depth is more then a buzzing fly or strolling ant deep.  Sadly too often, mine is not. 

[Starjumper]

On 7/25/2017 at 5:21 AM, Wells said:

The difference is that indoor methods are much more powerful for cultivation than outdoor methods.

In legit Tai Chi for example, to every Tai Chi moving meditation exercise (outdoor method), there is a Nei Kung exercise (indoor method), both usually sharing the same name. The Tai Chi moving meditation exercise is about 80% physical and 20% mental, the corresponding Nei Kung exercise is about 20% physical and 80% mental, which explains why the corresponding Nei Kung exercises are so much more effective. Only those considered worthy ("indoor students") are taught the Nei Kung exercises, therefore allowing them a level of cultivation impossible to achieve for those who only use Tai Chi moving meditation exercises ("outdoor students").

 

Since I'm responsible for thread drift here I want to put this back on track.  I agree that a lot of movements in nei kung have similarities with their tai chi counterparts and that in the nei kung versions there is more internal focus, ie. focussing on the energy effects of the movement, although I wouldn't go so far as to use the 20% - 80% idea because the sensitivites of the students can be so different.  Sometimes in nei kung the movements also have various ways of moving added to the tai chi way which are not explored in tai chi and also could be 'breaking the rules' of the tai chi way.  The movements can also be done with different kinds of variations which are not seen in tai chi.

 

Another thing about nei kung is that some of the movements are never seen in tai chi, and that's because tai chi uses movements for self defense while nei kung is not restrained in that way.  Nei kung can be thought of as an exercise system for warriors but not all the exercises have combat applications.  For example standing straight up with your arms and hands straight up and then leaning back is something that is done in chi kung but it would get you killed in a fight.  Same thing with bending way over and putting your head between your knees.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Starjumper

[voidisyinyang]

So Chunyi says that what commonly happens is a person opens up the third eye but then overuses their psychic energy so then they have to start over again and rebuild their lower tan tien foundational energy.

 

So if not then they have to rely on food for jing energy and so they get fat since they overused their psychic energy.

 

And so in my free pdf - I give 5 different references (from Taoist and Kriya yoga) saying the secret of storing up the energy in the lower tan tien is the perineum and sphincter muscles - and this perineum connects up to the pineal gland.

 

So unless the perineum and sphincter is flexed then otherwise the psychic energy is lost out of the pineal gland via the eyes.

 

So as I cite in my free pdf - this secret is not normally told to students - unless the teacher wants to enable the student to be able to store up energy!

 

So otherwise the typical student will just lose the energy.

 

Even then to open up the third eye you still have to build up the lower tan tien energy and so at first you do 3 times more standing active exercises compared to sitting meditation.

 

Yogananda says full lotus meditation burns bad karma. Wang Liping says 6 hours of full lotus meditation, every day, without missing one day, for one year, will restore the Yuan Jing of a typical middle age male back to a 16 year old.

 

So even if a teacher deems a student's mind "not ready" - it is possible to figure out how to keep training on your own and to purify the mind.