Using the Yi to lead the Chi

[jeremyll33]

Hi there. Thanks bums for advice on my 3 treasures post.

 

I have a further question which I am not yet grasping about Qi Gong. it refers to a comment by Yan Jwing Ming where he states, that the intent is using the Yi to lead the Chi. Now is there a moment I'm not yet grasping in Qi Gong - the moment between deciding to move and not moving?

[Miffymog]

From a Zhan Zhuang point of view, while in standing meditation, the act of deciding to move sets off lots of changes in structural alignment before you actually move. The point being that before you take a step, your body has to minutely align itself for an act where it is actually, constantly, in the process of falling over. It's just that the forward moving foot lands on the ground before you do.

 

So, deciding to move, or rather imagining and pretending to move, results in lots of minute muscular movements, which when sensed start to give you conscious control over previously unconsciously controlled muscles.

 

I have to admit, this does not really answer your question, as I have not addressed either Yi or Chi. But it does hopefully give you a tangible example of the moment between deciding to move and not moving ... maybe ... because in this example, you are deciding to move, but you dont

 

 

[Hancock]

1 hour ago, jeremyll33 said:

Hi there. Thanks bums for advice on my 3 treasures post.

 

I have a further question which I am not yet grasping about Qi Gong. it refers to a comment by Yan Jwing Ming where he states, that the intent is using the Yi to lead the Chi. Now is there a moment I'm not yet grasping in Qi Gong - the moment between deciding to move and not moving?

The moment between deciding to move and not moving is where you are witnessing things in motion an allowing them.

I want qi to move from my inhale to my tantian, i sense the quote while its moving and direct it to my tantian with Yi, I allow it and sense it as my Yi takes action.

Witnessing its movement til it completes my Intent is thAt middle area. Understand yes?

 

[dawei]

Mencius, a non-daoist, is the origin of the idea...

 

he said, in brief:  Yi leads Qi. He sought to explain that cultivating a moral basis requires a physical basis;  Thus, [moral] intention leads [physical] Qi.   

 

Intention is related to the heart; Qi related to the body.   The former is about direction and the latter about dimensions.

 

Now, there is a kind of more forceful intention (mind is trying to control the flow) and a more natural one (mind lets go of the flow).

 

And there is a kind of spirit based one where the mind can just have a thought-shift that opens a door for energy/spirit to move. 

 

And there is a kind of Dao based one where the mind, intention, Qi, spirit are simply all just one.

 

In a way, this is the meaning of 'returning to One'.

 

Now, back to your question:  The moment between deciding to move and not moving?

 

One may call that indecision but if it is empty enough, it is pure stillness as there is no need to consider moving vs not moving.

 

In that moment, you can realize both 'to move and not moving' as One... it doesn't matter any more. 

 

BTW:   Yan Jwing Ming is a Taiji/Qigong teacher of things....  he is still within the Mencius idea... 

[Bubbles]

12 hours ago, dawei said:

Mencius, a non-daoist, is the origin of the idea...

 

he said, in brief:  Yi leads Qi. He sought to explain that cultivating a moral basis requires a physical basis;  Thus, [moral] intention leads [physical] Qi.   

 

My limited experience is also that, in order to properly cultivate Qi, one needs morality: the physical basis requires the moral one because it all stems from the heart. 

[Brian]

Master Wang Juemin said be a good and moral person, remain calm, and practice your qigong every day.

[Hancock]

45 minutes ago, bubbles said:

 

My limited experience is also that, in order to properly cultivate Qi, one needs morality: the physical basis requires the moral one because it all stems from the heart. 

I've seen lots of different types of qi cultivation, some moral others immoral. The common elements are those who persevere in whatever techniques they're learning.

Morality though is important in spiritual development and going beyond our sense of personality. 

Ideally things would be so only the moral can develop,but it's just not that way though bubbles it'd be nice to live in that world my friend.

Some lineages have safeguards though, if a person is deemed unworthy or breaks taboo, the spirits of that lineage punish or put an end to that individual. So its a toss up.

[blue eyed snake]

54 minutes ago, bubbles said:

 

My limited experience is also that, in order to properly cultivate Qi, one needs morality: the physical basis requires the moral one because it all stems from the heart. 

 

That I like, you can cultivate Qi, and you can properly cultivate qi.

The latter having a sound intent ( morality) as a prerequisite

[Hancock]

18 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

That I like, you can cultivate Qi, and you can properly cultivate qi.

The latter having a sound intent ( morality) as a prerequisite

I would enjoy it if that only the good an morally upright could properly cultivate qi, sadly anyone with proper technique an persistence can properly cultivate an utilise qi. It's pretty cool it's available for everyone but only those with determination tend to develop it properly because of the effort an sticktoitness involved. 

 

It's a weird world we all live in. 

 

 

 

[dwai]

17 hours ago, jeremyll33 said:

Hi there. Thanks bums for advice on my 3 treasures post.

 

I have a further question which I am not yet grasping about Qi Gong. it refers to a comment by Yan Jwing Ming where he states, that the intent is using the Yi to lead the Chi. Now is there a moment I'm not yet grasping in Qi Gong - the moment between deciding to move and not moving?

Yi is Heart-mind Intent. Heart-mind is different from the thinking mind. The spiritual heart is the seat of Consciousness. When we are sufficiently sung and empty, the heart-mind and regular mind are clearly distinguishable, one is insubstantial and the other is substantial relatively to each other. So when your Yi (heart-mind intent) goes in a particular direction, the Qi will flow there. The thinking mind is used to counterbalance the flow of the Yi and Qi. It is kind of weird.

 

I hesitated sharing this with you when i saw your post originally. Most people don't get it. If they don't get it, they will laugh it off. But if you lock away this nugget of information in your memory somewhere, one day when it clicks, you'll go "Aha! That's what the strange guy on Daobums was referring to"...

 

[Bubbles]

1 hour ago, Zenmode said:

 

Ideally things would be so only the moral can develop,but it's just not that way though bubbles it'd be nice to live in that world my friend.

 

 

I do think it is our world as Yi is not an external set of values called morality; Yi is about energetics.This is multi-layered. 

I always suspected that Qi deviations were not just that. They do have a Yi deviation component. Often, correcting the Yi is enough to heal some Qi deviations. I saw it first hand and I found sometime after this small essay.

The immoral has to work harder and for different results. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by bubbles
edited: to add a dot.

[Brian]

47 minutes ago, dwai said:

Yi is Heart-mind Intent. Heart-mind is different from the thinking mind. The spiritual heart is the seat of Consciousness. When we are sufficiently sung and empty, the heart-mind and regular mind are clearly distinguishable, one is insubstantial and the other is substantial relatively to each other. So when your Yi (heart-mind intent) goes in a particular direction, the Qi will flow there. The thinking mind is used to counterbalance the flow of the Yi and Qi. It is kind of weird.

 

I hesitated sharing this with you when i saw your post originally. Most people don't get it. If they don't get it, they will laugh it off. But if you lock away this nugget of information in your memory somewhere, one day when it clicks, you'll go "Aha! That's what the strange guy on Daobums was referring to"...

 

I would add that the "thinking mind" is largely linear and confined by mundane space-time limitations while the "heart-mind" is more fundamental and operates at something akin to a "quantum mechanical" level.

[Hancock]

1 hour ago, bubbles said:

 

I do think it is our world as Yi is not an external set of values called morality; Yi is about energetics.This is multi-layered. 

I always suspected that Qi deviations were not just that. They do have a Yi deviation component. Often, correcting the Yi is enough to heal some Qi deviations. I saw it first hand and I found sometime after this small essay.

The immoral has to work harder and for different results. 

I've witnessed different things. Maybe it's the technique they used as opposed to mindset. It'd be a nice world though if only genuine good people succeeded.

[jeremyll33]

Thank you all of you who took time to respond.

 

I think I already understand  what dwai is saying here, on an intellectual level. ---to experience that in practice for a sustained period must be awesome. I have experienced that light ¨in the flow¨ feeling whilst climbing and skiing in the past. Although I practice repetitive eight brocade moves --i should imagine when you undertake a series of Tai Chi moves it must be quite revelatory. 

 

At the first shallow level ba duan jinn is about systematic stretching,

At the second level you grasp the meaning of the elixir of life being within and what the dantien does,

At the third level you grasp the move/not move dichotomy at a deep level (I have yet to absorb this). 

 

But I think the secret is to continue practicing. In my case ----i had to break off as we got a puppy last November. ---my meditation state has been somewhat shallow since then. Hard to tune into the endles void with a puppy trying to have sex with your leg !