Celestial Master deification of incarnated Lao Tzu and the Great Yin

[voidisyinyang]

So the teacher, the qigong master I took classes from, http://springforestqigong.com shared how when he was in deep meditation, Lao Tzu physically touched his head and appeared. I had difficultly believing this - but now I learn that Qingchengshan where this happened, is also where Lao Tzu was deified.

 

 So this was by Zhang - the Zhang lineage - that http://qigongmaster.com is part of Zhang, Yuanming.

 

He, Zhang, Yuangming did a presentation to a 2017 class at Cornell University.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjR3bLVxbfVAhXhq1QKHUX0BiEQFghBMAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhistory.cornell.edu%2Fsites%2Fhistory%2Ffiles%2FHIST%202209%20syllabus%20Spring%202017.pdf&usg=AFQjCNG_-shNP7yhm4DtXVRPHymGXsUwnw

 

pdf link of their syllabus.

 

There is also this fascinating pdf https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwinq-Hit7fVAhUpqVQKHU9BCzcQFghmMA4&url=https%3A%2F%2Fhal.archives-ouvertes.fr%2Fhal-00092556%2Fdocument&usg=AFQjCNElwekbQHQSSVGlR7LogP59YlPhQA

 

Bureaucratic Charisma: The Zhang Heavenly Master Institution and Court Taoists in Late-Qing China 

And now this 2016 book: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674737167&content=toc

 

Quote

In 142 CE, the divine Lord Lao descended to Mount Cranecall (Sichuan province) to establish a new covenant with humanity through a man named Zhang Ling, the first Celestial Master. Facing an impending apocalypse caused by centuries of sin, Zhang and his descendants forged a communal faith centering on a universal priesthood, strict codes of conduct, and healing through the confession of sins; this faith was based upon a new, bureaucratic relationship with incorruptible supernatural administrators. By the fourth century, Celestial Master Daoism had spread to all parts of China, and has since played a key role in China’s religious and intellectual history.

 

http://earlychinasinology.blogspot.com/2016/07/celestial-masters-history-and-ritual-in.html

 

Bills itself as the first book in the West devoted to the founding of the Taoist religion.

 

A big part of this training then is exorcising ghosts and also controlling and predicting the weather.

 

These are both things that the Chinese qigong master has referred to.

 

So his practices and experiences make much more sense in this context.

 

And so the current "titular" Celestial Master priest is based on the Zhang lineage - but it's a matter of dispute.

 

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/local/nantou/2009/05/12/207745/new-taoist.htm

 

Yet Zhang Yuanming claims lineage and is a true qigong (insert fancy Chinese term like neidan, etc.) master.

 

http://www.martialtalk.com/forums/chinese-internal-arts-taijiquan-tai-chi-and-qi.54/

 

Someone should compile a list of forums discussing qigong, tai chi, neigong, neidan, etc.

 

There's that site, kungfuforum I think - rum soaked fist forum,

 

that's three plus here.

 

Kungfu magazine forum. that's 5.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=yQo1DQAAQBAJ&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=Zhang+Yuanxian&source=bl&ots=imgmR5sHN8&sig=B_yKAQazJPDVWhE1sIE-4NRmsAA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjspfTrx7fVAhUkrlQKHb9sBDsQ6AEISzAI#v=onepage&q=Zhang Yuanxian&f=false

 

So the Celestial Masters as the Zhang lineage had a monopoly on certain talismans and exorcism rituals.

 

That book discusses what happened in the modern era - and if the Zhang Celestial Master is a true saint or not.

 

Making Saints in Modern China

edited by David Ownby, Zhe Ji

 

 

Zhang was dubbed by Westerners, "The Taoist Pope" which is more an attempt to denigrate Catholicism by protestants -

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=qt-5CY9IH8gC&pg=PA374&lpg=PA374&dq=Zhang+Yuanxian&source=bl&ots=w77uJ68p7G&sig=iZNDZEnPhq-kXE3kWczbOd2UkN0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjspfTrx7fVAhUkrlQKHb9sBDsQ6AEIUDAK#v=onepage&q=Zhang&f=false

 

But as this book points out - the Taoist priests as Zhengyi under Celestial Masters are considered to be serious scholars and influenced the WEstern study of Taoism.

 

Quote

The first thing Zhang Ling did in Shu was to make friends with shamans and sorcerers. He learned their magic, too. In particular, he learned their incantations to command ghosts and ghouls. He wanted to convert shamans, sorcerers and the people to Taoism. He succeeded only after he had defeated the eight ghost masters or guei shi (鬼師) in the state.

Each and every ghost master had under his command hundreds of thousands of ghosts and ghouls who harassed the people of Shu. Shamans could not beat them and had so far tried to appease them lest they should wreak havoc. The ghost masters would unleash their troops to start epidemics if they were not offered sacrifices, including human sacrifices, from time to time. All the ghosts and ghouls lived in Qing Cheng Shan (青城山) or Black Castle Mountain, which was not too faraway from Crane Whoop Mountain, where Zhang Tianshi and Wang Zhang stayed.

 

http://inrejects.talk-forums.com/t965-taoist-pope-zhang-daoling-ii-saved-us-all

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Way_of_the_Celestial_Masters

 

No mention of Qing Cheng Shan on the wiki page. Just shows Wiki on spiritual paranormal topics is woefully biased:

 

http://www.san-shin.org/China-Qingchengshan.html

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiang'er

 

This is the main surviving original text of the Celestial Masters.

 

Quote

According to the Xiang’er, the body was inhabited by spirits that survive in the presence of qi. In order to attain immortality, a person had to preserve and nourish these internal spirits. Presumably these spirits could be nurtured through meditation, but the Xiang’er offers very little guidance on what type of meditation one should do. The Xiang’er also looks down upon Daoist sexual practices, and urges its readers not to practice them.

 

So this commentary is discussed in a pdf

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj49dju0LfVAhXC0FQKHZG5AaMQFghEMAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.harvard.edu%2Ffiles%2Fpuett%2Ffiles%2Fpuett_forming_spirits.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHm0legoxALlj_ilnrJJ2jPe8CHXg

 

Essence or jing needs to be "congealed" and condensed in order to form and feed our spirits via qi energy.

 

So when the spirits are complete then qi appears and takes the spirits to the Great Yin.

 

This is like a fake death and in the Great Yin then the bodies or forms are restored and refined, enabling longevity and immortality.

 

So the Vincent Goossaert article on the Celestial Masters goes into more details.

 

The Emperor insisted that rain be made in 10 days or else Taoism would be destroyed, during the late Qing. Fortunately rain happened in 5 days.

 

One of the key points that Goossaert emphasizes is that the Celestial Master Zhang lineage imposed taxes and fees to the lower level Taoist priests and for services.

 

By paying these fees and taxes local Taoists gained legitimacy in their local communities.

 

So we can see a parallel here to qigong societies today - charging fees for certifications from teachings, and fees for healings, etc. It has an ancient history in China via the Celestial Masters!

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiOrcqz27fVAhXGi1QKHbGzBUMQFgguMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-brs.ub.ruhr-uni-bochum.de%2Fnetahtml%2FHSS%2FDiss%2FKupferKristin%2Fdiss.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEPJL03jMtA_MLKW6u0AMP3TlOfGA

 

2009 pdf on religious qigong movements linked to Taoism after 1978 in China.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2017 by voidisyinyang

[Marblehead]

5 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

So the teacher, the qigong master I took classes from, http://springforestqigong.com shared how when he was in deep meditation, Lao Tzu physically touched his head and appeared. I had difficultly believing this - but now I learn that Qingchengshan where this happened, is also where Lao Tzu was deified.

 

Shaman Flowing Hands states (my understanding) that he too was touched by Lao Tzu.

 

Personal experiences are what they are:  Personal Experiences.

 

And yes, Taoism had a hard time getting recognized as a valid religion.  Buddhism was already well established - no need for another religion.

 

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

3 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Shaman Flowing Hands states (my understanding) that he too was touched by Lao Tzu.

 

Personal experiences are what they are:  Personal Experiences.

 

And yes, Taoism had a hard time getting recognized as a valid religion.  Buddhism was already well established - no need for another religion.

 

 

 

 

O.K. so the name "Shaman Flowing Hands" reeks of Western New Ageism - what we also call Plastic Indians. haha.

 

So I search his/her name and get

Quote

At the beginning of the vid. there is shown the inside of the Temple I built myself. There are paintings that I did myself and the drawings of the Immortal Masters I did myself. It is a small and simple Temple in keeping with the Dao. So no room for idols. When I had finished the Temple I begged the Immortal Master to enter my body and take over me completely. He then blessed each image of the Immortal Masters so that they became 'open eye'. He drew Holy water just like in the vid and threw it onto the roof of the Temple. The Temple then is completely blessed and online so to speak.

In the vid you see me practicing martial art forms that I had learn't twenty years or so ago. The first form is the 'Flowing Hand' art. The second is Huang Lao Xian Shi's sword form he taught me. The third art is the Monkey Gods cudgel form, or should I say the first form. If you felt there was a presence in the film then it was probably one of the Immortal Masters there telling me who to practice and what I was doing right/wrong. He had not entered into me to move and teach me. In Daoist shamanism, there are no plants or drugs used, no mind games, when you start it is all physical. When the Immortal Master comes to you he moves you powerfully, so powerfully that you may be left exhausted and even feeling burnt. You are left in complete and absolute no doubt. The Immortal Masters energy is so powerful even when he comes to hold your arm that it is impossible to resist him moving you. The majority of people go to the Temple and beg the Immortal Master to draw the Fa fu/ fa shui to see if they will come to teach them. Many never achieve this, but some do. In the vid you see me begging the Immortal master to come to me to hold my arm and draw the amulets and Holy water. He is transmitting his energy through me into the amulet and Holy water. The amulet and Holy water are then taken and the 'command' is then given to the body to heal or whatever the amulet is for. -

 

 

So here he is describing his process.

 

This is just religious folk Taoism that he recreated on his own.

 

http://springforestqigong.com did the 49 days full lotus nonstop meditation - no sleep, no food, just a bit of water.

 

Totally different. The real deal - like http://qigongmaster.com

 

 

 

At the beginning of the vid. there is shown the inside of the Temple I built myself. There are paintings that I did myself and the drawings of the Immortal Masters I did myself. It is a small and simple Temple in keeping with the Dao. So no room for idols. When I had finished the Temple I begged the Immortal Master to enter my body and take over me completely. He then blessed each image of the Immortal Masters so that they became 'open eye'. He drew Holy water just like in the vid and threw it onto the roof of the Temple. The Temple then is completely blessed and online so to speak.

In the vid you see me practicing martial art forms that I had learn't twenty years or so ago. The first form is the 'Flowing Hand' art. The second is Huang Lao Xian Shi's sword form he taught me. The third art is the Monkey Gods cudgel form, or should I say the first form. If you felt there was a presence in the film then it was probably one of the Immortal Masters there telling me who to practice and what I was doing right/wrong. He had not entered into me to move and teach me. In Daoist shamanism, there are no plants or drugs used, no mind games, when you start it is all physical. When the Immortal Master comes to you he moves you powerfully, so powerfully that you may be left exhausted and even feeling burnt. You are left in complete and absolute no doubt. The Immortal Masters energy is so powerful even when he comes to hold your arm that it is impossible to resist him moving you. The majority of people go to the Temple and beg the Immortal Master to draw the Fa fu/ fa shui to see if they will come to teach them. Many never achieve this, but some do. In the vid you see me begging the Immortal master to come to me to hold my arm and draw the amulets and Holy water. He is transmitting his energy through me into the amulet and Holy water. The amulet and Holy water are then taken and the 'command' is then given to the body to heal or whatever the amulet is for. - See more at: http://social-souls.com/taoism/shaman-flowing-hands-absolutely-fascinating-video-t57422.html#sthash.lk3jWVHG.dpuf

[qicat]

13 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

So the teacher, the qigong master I took classes from, http://springforestqigong.com shared how when he was in deep meditation, Lao Tzu physically touched his head and appeared.

 

I dunno about this particular master, but yeah, I have had personal experiences with this. It is interesting though, as when I was at Indian Kirtan and the singer told everybody he will call his Guru, I saw "Ganesha". Once, at yoga studio, I think it was Shiva's b-day, and yoga teacher chanted his mantra, I did kind of spoke to "Shiva". When my Sifu worked on me with medical qigong, he called 64 dakinis (?) and Goddess. At least, that's how I "saw" it. At the temple, during pujas, I can "see" the deity which is being called.  At the Christmas service ( all nighter), I did see a "baby Jesus". What is interesting about all of it, is that they all appear to be 3D living bodies, not holographic projections ( if you ever saw anybody's thoughts - it's a projection vs. "real"(?) thing). 

 

What else... I did see "Old White Man" with a staff and a deer when I was in North Mongolia mountains...

 

To be fair, I have seen couple beings which would be classified as "Lucifer" or "Devil" in Christian religions, but he is an interesting being. Because he is lacking something. And he knows it. 

 

Sifu told me not to call spirits and not to participate in such activities. Because I do not know the "proper protocols". He told me few things of proper "introductions" and steps, and I am kind of studying that for now. You have to be an initiated priest of your religion to have protection which would shield enough from some unpleasant stuff. So I think. And I am not a priest ( yet?)

 

Oh... one more... I believe I saw the full lineage of the Gelugpa school. Sifu and I did a private lesson and at the very end of the form they were there. They all were holding one mudra. When I told Sifu about it, he scolded me and told me that when Celestial Masters appear, I have to do proper protocol and listen and learn instead of being a cat I am ( look,squirrel!!!!). Focused attention is important in this...

 

but yeah... if you go "outside of the circle" with this and tell people you have these experiences in meditation... well... it is wise not to...unless you want to be label with "issues"....

 

purrrrrr

 

[blue eyed snake]

even here dear cat, there are people who would think you've issues...

 

 

ssssshhhh

 

[silent thunder]

 

freedom of flight anyone?

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, qicat said:

 

I dunno about this particular master, but yeah, I have had personal experiences with this.

 

 

I have as well - I guess I've got issues...

To connect with these subtle and elusive forces, for me at least, requires openness, trust, and a deep personal connection to the lineage. Knowledge, intellect, and the analytical mind, no matter how powerful, are of little value here.

 

I also think some individuals are particularly sensitive and conducive to such visitations.

 

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

7 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

O.K. so the name "Shaman Flowing Hands" reeks of Western New Ageism - what we also call Plastic Indians. haha.

 

 

I don't consider him as plastic.  He is sincere and honest.  More than what we can say about many people.

 

[Starjumper]

I saw a video report of/by a university professor, and he was contacted by and given various instructions by a spirit entity, and it wasn't till much later that it was revealed to him that it was Lao Tzu who was communicating with him.  I saw this a long time ago so I'm fuzzy on the details, and it's scrolled way down on my FB page so there isn't much hope of finding it.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Starjumper

[Jonesboy]

7 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I don't consider him as plastic.  He is sincere and honest.  More than what we can say about many people.

 

 

I would agree.

 

I have found connection to the divine is very possible. As well as helping others experience such connections.

[dawei]

I have been to  Qingchengshan and saw tablet reference to LZ...   I will say I underwent some other method experiences which brought me to connections with LZ. 

 

The Celestial Masters is an intriguing issue to me, given their attempts to provide a commentary on the LZ writings.   Few have attempted a translation of it, but for those interested, See:  

 

Early Daoist Scriptures by Stephen R. Bokenkamp 

 

[voidisyinyang]

I discovered this German Ph.D. thesis on religious movements post 1978 in China, after liberalization. So it described qigong master Zhang Hongbao's strategy: First get academic approval, 2nd get spread in the media, third get legal protection, fourth do mass marketing. So this is exactly what Chunyi did when he spread qigong here - first befriended academics, then got in the media, then got a new law passed by his student - for spiritual healing - then mass marketed. Amazing! haha. So Zong gong by Zhang, Hongbao trained at Qingchengshan or Qing Cheng mountain. That is also where the Celestial Masters school started, the most prestigious Taoist lineage of the Zhang family. So they believe that Lao Tzu physically incarnated as a deity - and that is also what Chunyi said happened to him! So Chunyi is definitely part of that Celestial Masters lineage as he mentioned going to see Zhang Yuanming of http://qigongmaster.com but Zhang was doing his cave meditation  - just like Chunyi did his cave meditation - 49 days, no sleep, full lotus the whole time.
 

Oh yeah and Zong Gong sold all the same kind of side products that Chunyi now sells - and had hotels - like Chunyi said he wants a SFQ hotel. haha. So - Zong Gong used to even sell qi-charged Coca-Cola! Hilarious!!
 

Master Zhang, Hongbao believed there would be a 4th revolution in science based on biological medicine. So no wonder Chunyi's son is training to be a doctor. haha. And so Zhang Hongbao also used to charge for photos with him - and that's what Chunyi does to - take the certification teaching and get your photo with him! Anyway - also the Level 3 of Zong Gong was when the "philosophy" of the teaching was introduced - just exactly as Chunyi does for his Level 3!!
 

So I already uncovered the other Zong Gong parallels - the elongated yin-yang symbol of SFQ is from Zong Gong, meaning there is an extra dialectical reversal before yang turns into yin and vice versa. This means there is not just "linear" progress but delays in struggle, etc.
 

Also Master Zhang Hongbao even challenged the Yan Xin science research that was being done at Qinhua University. He wrote some critique of it - so he was trying to be super scientific about his qigong teaching, along with all the mass marketing. But the class prices were very steep for China - like $100 for Level 1 - that is in China in the 1990s!!
 

So his school was aimed towards the elite of China.
 

Yep - so Zong Gong would spread by doing the "finger growing exercise" - just as Chunyi always does for his introduction talks in his podcast interviews. haha. Then Zong Gong teaches you can do healing in 15 minutes of training - just as SFQ teaches and does the same healing exercises and the standing active exercises were almost identical.
 

So then this Ph.d. commented that actually because the standing exercises only used hand movements then it was very appealing for the masses - and so now we can understand why the new five elements exercises are mainly just hand movements. As Chunyi said - he wanted the exercises easier for older people, etc.
 

Also the Celestial Masters Zhang lineage also charged money for their healings and exorcisms - going back to the 1st century A.D. - and the Zhang lineage had a monopoly on certain talismans - so they would even sue people for illegally selling their talismans. The Zhang lineage then imposed taxes on the local Taoist priests who were then "certified" by the Zhang Celestial Masters lineage. So this enabled the local Taoist priests to have legitimacy in the eye of the villagers.
 

Sounds just like the qigong certification training! haha.

[Starjumper]

I was told by this local Krav Maga guy who puts on weekend seminars that what seminar goers really want is a T shirt and a certificate.

 

[voidisyinyang]

1 minute ago, Starjumper said:

I was told by this local Krav Maga guy who puts on weekend seminars that what seminar goers really want is a T shirt and a certificate.

 

 

yep Chunyi says you can take Level 3 but it might just be information for you - you have to train seriously to actually achieve the experiential level.

 

So then I was on bicycle and stopped at this Freemason New Age bookstore and ran into a University professor who had been taking SFQ - he complained to me about he wasn't ready yet and I repeated the above to him. But a fellow female student in our graduate program had complained to me that this same professor had sexually harassed her. So next thing - I had not heard about this professor for a while and so when I went to register for the next semester I asked what happened to him. The lady nonchalantly said - oh he died in his cabin. How? He burned to death.

 

Now who knows if that was "revenge" or just karma or whatever, an accident.

 

 

 

 

[qicat]

4 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

even here dear cat, there are people who would think you've issues...

 

 

ssssshhhh

 

[qicat]

3 hours ago, steve said:

 

I have as well - I guess I've got issues...

To connect with these subtle and elusive forces, for me at least, requires openness, trust, and a deep personal connection to the lineage. Knowledge, intellect, and the analytical mind, no matter how powerful, are of little value here.

 

I also think some individuals are particularly sensitive and conducive to such visitations.

 

 

 

 

 

well... it's a combination of "places, people, things, intent, etc..." otherwise, I think modern psychiatry labels it with psychosis. I guess you might say that "when cat goes to religious services and diligently does the work, she is psychotic ( in terms of catapulting to other dimensions"). However, since it does not happen outside of practice, I have a reason to suspect that perhaps old grumpy hogs were right about some stuff... perhaps...

 

/*****************/

Celestial Masters as a sect I have full suspicion ( believe) is exactly what it is. If you ever read any Chinese book with all those flowers/lakes/magpies/etc you would know that it is all encoded yet mean exactly what it is. I guess one have to have a personal experience in order to understand/feel deeply is a better term/ that people who wrote those books were going from personal experience. 

[thelerner]

I tend to be as or more skeptical of 'divine' beings and revelations then I am of people/celebrities.  that could change with time and experience,

[doc benway]

25 minutes ago, thelerner said:

I tend to be as or more skeptical of 'divine' beings and revelations then I am of people/celebrities.  that could change with time and experience,

 

Me too, I think it's a smart and healthy approach.

[Starjumper]

31 minutes ago, thelerner said:

I tend to be as or more skeptical of 'divine' beings and revelations then I am of people/celebrities.  that could change with time and experience,

 

I have a big problem with the word divine, but the spirit world is full of different kinds of spirits, someday you may see some,

[doc benway]

3 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

I have a big problem with the word divine, ...

 

I think it becomes less of an issue if you have the view that all is divine... or none.

At least that's how I see it.

[qicat]

25 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

I have a big problem with the word divine, but the spirit world is full of different kinds of spirits, someday you may see some,

 

 

well... that's why Sifu "benched" me... he basically told me until I connect to "divine", all of this "child play" is useless and dangerous. I was kind of mad at him for that ( for a little), because "go find God" seems like an impossible task. So, I am diligently going through all human religions books in order to figure out what this "God" ( divinity, etc) is and how to "find it". As far as spirits, yes, they are everywhere. When one spirit is "impersonating" another, always look them in the eyes. Since eyes is a seat of the Soul ( shen), you will see who are you really talking to. You also can request their "name". Three times ( otherwise, they might "lie"). As I said, there is a whole "divine court protocol" to this ( at least in Daoism as I understand). 

 

if anybody seen God/Divinity lately, tell him/her Cat was looking...

 

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by qicat

[silent thunder]

Any more, I can't think of a place I've looked that wasn't saturated in it, whatever name it's given... divine, spiritual, mystical.

All of it in every ordinary bit.

 

It seems that i first encountered it within, before it was discerned without, but i can't be certain.

Edited August 6, 2017 by silent thunder
delete an extra word

[sagebrush]

now if we can photo shop a little hat for above qicat it would say: R&R

 

rest and relaxation or rinse and repeat-your pick or maybe rolls Royce-

 

well lets be honest-I cannot photo shop

 

[thelerner]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

., the spirit world is full of different kinds of spirits, someday you may see some,

I hope so too, but whatever they say.. I'm gonna have to back it up, weigh and consider.

 

I don't deny there existence, I've met and talked to people who've met and talked to various incarnations, but seeing, listening, and respecting doesn't mean I'll buy into what they say.

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, qicat said:

..So, I am diligently going through all human religions books in order to figure out what this "God" ( divinity, etc) is and how to "find it"...

 

if anybody seen God/Divinity lately, tell him/her Cat was looking...

 

 

 

You won't find it out there...