Celestial Master deification of incarnated Lao Tzu and the Great Yin

[Starjumper]

17 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

We find that with the most famous guru of India - Saibaba - for example. I remember a friend says - "oh I'm sure his cult has done lots of good things." Yes I'm sure. That's not the point. The point was Saibaba was using those "good things" as his front for his personal ejaculation addiction predator-perv attacks.

 

Incorrect.  Sai Baba was a true avatar with powerful miraculous abilities which he used constantly to help people.  i know this from first and second hand experience from quite a few sources.  It is said you know a teacher by his students, I knew one of his students and she was a total saint, means ethical and helpful.   Sai Baba is also known for very ethical conduct, which includes fucking with the heads of people who needed to feel he was fake in order to give them what they wanted.

 

So if he was a pervert, and that is questionable, then the question becomes:  Is it possible for a true saint to be a pervert in this age of Kali Yuga?  Apparently the answer could be yes.  The inside story is that he was performing healing/preventing future health problems with his method, which did not include intercourse, only touching.  Try to wrap your head around that full lotus man.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Starjumper

[Aletheia]

I'm following drew's stuff and I think it's very good. Better than good in the Platonic sense in fact!

 

After one month I was able to demonstrate high level qi projection skills in front of people. They were/are so shocked by what they witnessed they still can't bring themselves to talk about it other than to say it occurred, then they have to change the subject quickly.

 

I almost went into levitation the other day when I opened my 3rd eye.

 

When I'm out the house I'm able to make people move in a direction I choose. I noticed that right after I opened the 3rd eye and realised something fishy was going on when every time I moved to get out of someone's way they mirrored my movements. It happened about 6 times in a row so I ended up having to walk on the edge of the pavement lol.

 

I think it's quite likely I'll have distance healing very soon. I tried it out the other day and it somewhat worked. Apparently all that's needed is a picture and location!

 

The problem we have here is what I was saying the other day. Namely Westerners love a good fake and will pick it time and again over the real thing.

 

drew is the real thing, therefore no one wants to listen to anything he has to say. And honestly while I'm happy to sing his praises all day long I really don't know why he bothers trying to be so helpful when he pretty much gets a whole load of abuse in return.

 

And I'll add, after seeing what real qi energy can do I'm pretty much left scratching my head when I see people that have managed to affix "qigong master" to their personas posting videos on the internet using tiny amounts of qi and and all the physical force they can muster. It's about as graceful and nuanced as watching someone play a violin with a chainsaw. Really enough to make one's hair stand on end and gasp in abject horror!

Edited August 4, 2017 by Aletheia

[doc benway]

16 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

The great thing about the Internet is that I can meet people who dig up all sorts of articles, which themselves are as questionable as the sources they supposedly cite, and argue either way. Flat Earth movement people come to mind. Crowley is also someone on the Flying Phoenix thread alongside Castaneda who is recommended reading. 

 

But: I suspect more discrediting of these individuals, which I couldn't care what you say or what you try to prove. I'm counting down until that free pdf is mentioned again for the millionth billionth jillionth time. Cool story Bro. Tell it again. 

 

This constant argument sounds like this: Why bother exploring when someone else has traveled there for us and given us their written account? Read National Geographic and watch Discovery Channel instead of traveling yourself--they did it for us and we don't need to waste our time because we don't have the expertise or authority they do to appreciate what it all means. 

 

Oh please. I had my own insights and experience. And that's connecting to the Divine. I don't need some guy who sits in full lotus while in McDonald's using their free wi-fi telling me that my experience is negated because of the research that he pulls up. You're arguing your research, I'm sharing my experience with the Divine. This is like a +π thread with the same tired argument about proving scientific research and how everyone else's experience is wrong and false. Let everyone have their own relationship with the Divine and experience.

 

An old Zen story: a monk asked a master what is enlightenment and if the master could show him what it was. The master said he would love to, but he needs to urinate first, and the master asked if the student could urinate for him. In other words, you're going to experience things that I can't explain to you or explain for you. Don't tell me or anyone else that your research and bombardment of links is all we need to see (and that free pdf of yours that you wave in front of everyone's face in every thread).

 

I am reminded of a scene in Gary Jennings' Aztec where he is interrogated about conversion. When the titular character asks if refusing to convert to their religion means he will have no chance of being in heaven with the inquisitors and they confirm that he will not be welcomed, he horrifies them when he smiles with joy and relief. If Hell means being away from the fundamentalists in their Heaven, then it's already the superior choice. 

 

I have found it extremely valuable and eye opening to notice my tendency to want others to see things the way I do.

I see this so much online. I see it in our political dialogue. I see it in myself. I see it in all (most) of you. I think it is natural and normal but easily distorted and exaggerated. It can undermine relationships and doesn't seem to be of much value to anyone. If someone wants to see your side it takes an active choice to do so on their part. Nothing I say can cause another to be open to my viewpoint. 

 

I think the motivation can be multifactorial -

 - I want to help others to see the truth (as I see it) - compassionate

 - I want my own view of reality to be correct - fear based

 

There are times when I'm not at all aware that I am doing this. It can be quite subtle and annoyingly obvious.

With practice, it becomes easier to notice the tendency and address it. 

Over time, my intellectual addiction to being correct lessens and my ability to develop and maintain relationships with others and expand my own potential increases. It may seem a bit contradictory at first but it is true - when I let go of my view of the truth, I have the possibility of appreciating and more expansive view of truth.

 

My own son really helped me with this. He pointed out to me once how, when interacting with him and others, I have a tendency to always share my own perspective (not to mention my voracious tendency to debate, question, and correct others in line with that perspective). I replied, what else do I have to share but my perspective? His reply was along the lines of - you could try to see the other's point of view, try to anticipate their needs, ask more questions, try to imagine what it is like for them to experience the issue at hand. I know my son is empathetic and insightful so I was able check my ego, accept his criticism, and really sit with it and look deeply at myself. It was a revelation for me to see the truth in his words and has been helpful to my relationships, especially my marriage.

 

When we tell others that a particular practice is right or wrong, when we criticize and insult things or people they find valuable, when we invalidate or correct their positions, when we yell at them by writing in giant, bold font letters and demand that they read or listen to what WE have to say over and over... we are really demonstrating the narrowness of our own perspective, our insecurity, our lack of openness, our inability to consider that there are alternative realities and truths. There are infinite perspectives and infinite truths. There are truths that are completely contradictory. I apologize if anyone feels that I am calling them out but I am pointing this finger at everyone reading this as we are all prone to this by the nature of our psychology and physiology, myself included.

 

I would challenge everyone here to share rather than preach, to offer our perspective rather than fire it from a cannon, to try to expand our own perspective by being inclusive and collaborative rather than competitive and dismissive. The wider and more open my perspective, the more inclusive and supportive I am of others' perspectives, the closer I am to truth. If I can't open myself to alternative perspectives, I will never know anything more than my personal, limited point of view. To the extent that I can cultivate empathy and the ability to see and feel what others see and feel, my own perspective has infinitely more potential. This site has so much potential but I so often see it undermined by narrow-minded bluster that serves no purpose other than to reinforce our own ego, which is antithesis of the Dao and spirituality in general. With a little introspection and self-observation, this place could be a very supportive community. It's sometimes discouraging to see the bickering. It may not matter to some but it certainly tends to push me away and prevent me from sharing more. 

 

Rant off...

 

[thelerner]

29 minutes ago, steve said:

I would challenge everyone here to share rather than preach,

 

Amen, brother Steve 

[Aletheia]

Also I think the big problem with drew's stuff is that it presupposes knowledge of nondualism which he's getting from his Pythagorean music "theory" so I do sympathise with people not getting that because I'm not really sure how he's putting that together either.

 

But the thing is drew is about the only person that sees the bigger picture with all the contours of civilisations. Plato is just one such contour but it goes way back into prehistoric deep time and forward too. Drew sees that all plus he knows it's wrong and I've not come across anyone else that really knows that. I see it too but I'm not academic like drew so he has millions of sources to back up what he's saying whereas I don't, other people see it but just don't get its significance for whatever reason.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Aletheia

[voidisyinyang]

17 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

The secret to living forever is indeed with Drew - when he talks, it feels like it will never end.

 

 

 

There's an excellent recent book I dug into today again called, "What Kind of Creatures Are We?" by Noam Chomsky (20160.

 

So this book was "on display" at our town library and the volunteer said - yeah Chomsky he's part of "truthout" and I kind of smiled - because I know of the website truthout indeed, but Chomsky was also called by the NY Times the greatest living intellectual alive, and most cited in academic research, etc.

 

Of course I didn't say these things to the library volunteer - I just said, "yeah I corresponded with Chomsky, he replied to one of my emails." So then the book looked familiar and I realized I had probably donated it to the library but had just speed read it and so wanted to read it again.

 

So anyway since I had donated it the library - and now have the book again - I realized the book was published before Professor anthropologist Christopher Knight's book that critiques Chomsky.

 

Of course most people have not heard of Christopher Knight but I had discovered his tome "Blood Relations" in a used bookstore and immediately I was fascinated. And so, in contrast to Chomsky, Knight argues that language is from our ecological evolutionary context with also revolutionary social implications.

 

The big point of Chomsky is that, in agreement with Darwin and the classical liberal science view, humans are distinct from other animals because our means of communication expresses infinity using finite form. Or more precisely - consider the bees - the communicate using geometry via dancing and buzzing and wiggling to indicate direction and amount, etc. but that type of infinity is limited because it is not discrete number - so it is limited to form.

 

So Chomsky is arguing that humans are unique among animals because our concept of meaning is not dependent on external physical form and in fact there is no "one to one" correspondence with a physical form. And also he argues that animals, in contrast, use language as dependent on external references and so are limited. Chomsky though aligns with Newton, in arguing that because of our internal I-language, as Chomsky calls it, humans therefore lack other means of perception, that not only remain unconscious but are inherent mysterious. So Newton considered the cause of gravity to be an "occult" mystery that was unsolvable - and yet "action at a distance" worked.

 

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n09/jackson-lears/mysterian

 

So we can find part of a review of Chomsky's recent books with comments mentioning Chris Knight's critique of Chomsky.

 

And the comments have a lively debate about Chomsky vis a vis Chris Knight with Noam Chomsky getting the final word in, quite recently August 2017.

 

So what is interesting is that most of this engagement with Knight's critique of Chomsky is based solely on Knight's book, "Decoding Chomsky" and not based on Knight's tome, "Blood Relations" and his focus on the original human culture, the San Bushmen.

 

So it's not that Knight is wrong, nor that Chomsky is wrong, but in fact there is a deeper dynamic going on that neither of them realize. That dynamic was discovered as the foundation of quantum physics - noncommutative phase - and it was practiced as the focus of the original human culture - the San Bushmen - and passed on as Taoism and the "three gunas" of India - and Pythagorean philosophy - as Eddie Oshins corroborated my research.

 

And so what Chomsky calls Mysterianism - in regards to Newton's gravity and also the origin of human imagination as the means to connect the dots of identity - quite literally is solved by the Muses or more specifically the real meaning of nonwestern music.

 

I, actually, corresponded with Chomsky more than once - and in the last regards about my master's thesis that critiques Chomsky from the perspective of music theory and qigong training. Of course at that time in 2000 - my analysis was still too Western.

 

But if we realize that Chris Knight's original research remains largely unacknowledged by academia - and he himself was actually fired for doing direct action nonviolent guerrilla theatre - as satire - something about killing the banksters - and so he is no longer a professor, but still publishes and gives talks, etc. - then how much more so is the secret of the original human culture remaining unacknowledged by modern Western culture? haha. Quite so much!

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

2 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

 The inside story is that he was performing healing/preventing future health problems with his method, which did not include intercourse, only touching.  Try to wrap your head around that full lotus man.

 

Well I thought I remembered differently so I googled anal rape saibaba.

 

Dr. Naresh Bhatia and Sai Baba - Sathya Sai Baba in word and action

www.saibaba-x.org.uk/6/bhatia.htm

A very close doctor devotee and sexual partner of Sai Baba was forced out of the ashram ... He questioned and then examined the child, and found that he had been sexually penetrated, via his anus. ... Sai Baba rape of 7-year old boy student.

Major Exposure of Alleged Sexual Abuses by Sathya Sai Baba

www.saibaba-x.org.uk/6/saisex2.htm

Revelations through decades of Sai Baba's sexual proclivities and the pivotal ... Sai Baba of students, including a report on the physically-injurious anal rape of a ...

‎A long history of reports ... · ‎The cover-up of ... · ‎'The Findings' by David ...

Testimony on Sai Baba's sexual 'oilings' of male followers

www.saibaba-x.org.uk/6/saisex3.htm

The Genital 'oiling' of young males by Sathya Sai Baba: Many Western ... This would include the anal rape of underage boys, as reported by Dr. Naresh Bhatia ...

God's Own Stockholm Syndrome | Nirmukta

nirmukta.com/2010/06/12/god’s-own-stockholm-syndrome/

Jun 12, 2010 - 8 posts - ‎2 authors

Sai Baba and his Puttaparti temple-casino complex is a classic ... including a report on the physically injurious anal rape of a minor, a boy ...

Sai Baba EXPOSED!: Sai Baba's Tattvavada Troubles

saibabaexposed.blogspot.com/2007/08/sai-babas-tattvavada-troubles.html?m=0

Aug 6, 2007 - It shouldn't come as a surprise that Sai Baba also claims to be a ... Dr. Naresh Bhatia, for example, witnessed the aftermath of an anal rape of a ...

THE DOWNFALL OF A GURU SAI BABA - SaiGuru.Net

www.saiguru.net/english/media/000906trouw.htm

Hundreds of Dutch devotees did the same tearing up all the Sai Baba ... an energy point between th anus and penis so that Kundalini energy will be flowing. ... Painful is the news about rape (molestation) by Sai baba with the Indian boys.

ON THE KUNDALINI ISSUE - SaiGuru.Net

www.saiguru.net/english/articles/26kundalini.htm

... from the Kundalini Foundation explaining Sai Baba's approach to the subject ...... The perineum can be located in the male half way between the anus and the ..... molested (She used the word raped) by Sri Sathya Sai Baba on two separate ...

A Guru Accused - Ex-Baba

www.exbaba.com/articles/paperaguruaccused.html

Sri Sathya Sai Baba, a famous Indian guru, is known by many through his ..... for males, is by touching a particular spot between the testicles and the anus. ... of Sai Baba, and emotional hurt, due to what is sometimes viewed as spiritual rape.

Sai Baba – an enigmatic legend lives on | Life Arts Media

www.lifeartsmedia.com/sai-baba

May 29, 2011 - Legendary Indian guru Sathya Sai Baba, was one of the world's most revered ... Ultimately Alaya claims Sai Baba attempted to rape him. ... most commonly with the application of oil to the area between scrotum and anus.

Sai Baba rumours « Sathya Sai Baba Deceptions Exposed

https://robertpriddy.wordpress.com/tag/sai-baba-rumours/

Jun 1, 2011 - Posts about Sai Baba rumours written by robertpriddy. ... rumours flew in all directions after Dr. Bhatia confronted Sai Baba about anal rape.

 

Now what I had remembered was actually something different.

 

So I had to remember where I posted it - Jetsun's PPD.

 

Quote

 

So the victims of Sai Baba getting molested are all liars - kind of like 350 priests, including the 3rd top ranking Christian "avatar" - a cardinal - is now being charged with sexual abuse.

 

Male chimps and modern human males practice sexual abuse en masse - it's just biology.

 

So I know you want to "defend" India and your Brahman Vedic culture, blah blah - but I'm just considering the independent information about Sai Baba - you've had "direct experience" with him?

 

C'mon dude - stop protecting an ejaculation addiction abusive male - chimp fake:

 

Quote

 

TRANSCRIPT OF THE INTERVIEW WITH MARK ROCHE ABOUT THE SEXUAL ABUSE

Tanya Datta: Mark Roche devoted 25 years of his life to Sai Baba. He first heard of him in 1969 and soon joined the local centre in California., The guru's message was the big attraction.

Mark Roche: The teachings themselves were very universal and adopted the attitude of embracing all other religions, so it wasn't a matter of this religion opposed to that - that you had o leave whatever you were in to be associated with Sai Baba
just be a better Christian, a better Jew or a better whatever it is rather than having to leave it… mixed with the fact that the person who is the head of that is claiming to be God Himself.

Tanya Datta: It's a special moment when God calls. And Mark couldn't believe his luck when he was summoned for a private interview.
But he emerged shocked and refused… just like the Rahms, Sai Baba had oiled his genitals. Two years later Mark was called for an audience again.

Mark Roche: He kept saying stuff like that 'I'm giving you a great chance… millions want to touch the feet, you know. I'm giving you whole body. This is a great chance, this is a great chance. Then he went over to a different part of the room and pulled up his dhoti - this is an Indian garment kind of thing - and exposed himself and sort of indicated that I was supposed to put his penis in my mouth, which - feeling intimidated and confused and all that- I did. And although it didn't seem right to me but just seemed what I was supposed to do.

Tanya Datta: Why would God want to put his penis there?

Mark Roche: Got me!

 

 

http://www.saiguru.net/SECRET_SWAMI/roche.html

 

http://www.saiguru.net/english/index.htm

 

Lots of details there of fraud, abuse, corruption, blah blah.

 

Typical male ejaculation addiction black hole stuff. This stuff is boring but people are mass mind controlled to think priests and cardinals are emissaries of God - and the same in the Vedic Brahmin b.s.

[doc benway]

31 minutes ago, Aletheia said:

Also I think the big problem with drew's stuff is that it presupposes knowledge of nondualism which he's getting from his Pythagorean music "theory" so I do sympathise with people not getting that because I'm not really sure how he's putting that together either.

 

But the thing is drew is about the only person that sees the bigger picture with all the contours of civilisations. Plato is just one such contour but it goes way back into prehistoric deep time and forward too. Drew sees that all plus he knows it's wrong and I've not come across anyone else that really knows that. I see it too but I'm not academic like drew so he has millions of sources to back up what he's saying whereas I don't, other people see it but just don't get its significance for whatever reason.

 

I think others see it too.

 

No question that Drew is intelligent, insightful, and passionate about his chosen area of focus (as are others here).

 

 

[Starjumper]

OK Drew, a superficial glance of that looks pretty convincing, and yet he was a full fledged avatar with all the magical abilities that avatars are known for.

 

So if you are into nonduality how do you explain the seeming divergence there?

[Aletheia]

1 hour ago, steve said:

 

I think others see it too.

 

No question that Drew is intelligent, insightful, and passionate about his chosen area of focus (as are others here).

 

 

 

Right I was just stating my opinion as I see things. I' m sure there's loads of other areas where people stumble and it's not like I've got it all worked out by a long shot either.

 

If you go back far enough externally you get to the trance dance and if you go back far enough internally you get to the same place -- heaven on earth -- an open "system" in harmony with the cosmos.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Aletheia

[Starjumper]

39 minutes ago, Aletheia said:

I see it too but I'm not academic like drew so he has millions of sources to back up what he's saying whereas I don't, other people see it but just don't get its significance for whatever reason.

 

Maybe other people see it and realize that's the way the world is now, and don't need a million academic sources to beat themselves over the head with.  I guess it all depends on what crusade a person is on.

[KuroShiro]

29 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

There's an excellent recent book I dug into today again called, "What Kind of Creatures Are We?" by Noam Chomsky (20160.

 

So this book was "on display" at our town library and the volunteer said - yeah Chomsky he's part of "truthout" and I kind of smiled - because I know of the website truthout indeed, but Chomsky was also called by the NY Times the greatest living intellectual alive, and most cited in academic research, etc.

 

Of course I didn't say these things to the library volunteer - I just said, "yeah I corresponded with Chomsky, he replied to one of my emails." So then the book looked familiar and I realized I had probably donated it to the library but had just speed read it and so wanted to read it again.

 

So anyway since I had donated it the library - and now have the book again - I realized the book was published before Professor anthropologist Christopher Knight's book that critiques Chomsky.

 

Of course most people have not heard of Christopher Knight but I had discovered his tome "Blood Relations" in a used bookstore and immediately I was fascinated. And so, in contrast to Chomsky, Knight argues that language is from our ecological evolutionary context with also revolutionary social implications.

 

The big point of Chomsky is that, in agreement with Darwin and the classical liberal science view, humans are distinct from other animals because our means of communication expresses infinity using finite form. Or more precisely - consider the bees - the communicate using geometry via dancing and buzzing and wiggling to indicate direction and amount, etc. but that type of infinity is limited because it is not discrete number - so it is limited to form.

 

So Chomsky is arguing that humans are unique among animals because our concept of meaning is not dependent on external physical form and in fact there is no "one to one" correspondence with a physical form. And also he argues that animals, in contrast, use language as dependent on external references and so are limited. Chomsky though aligns with Newton, in arguing that because of our internal I-language, as Chomsky calls it, humans therefore lack other means of perception, that not only remain unconscious but are inherent mysterious. So Newton considered the cause of gravity to be an "occult" mystery that was unsolvable - and yet "action at a distance" worked.

 

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n09/jackson-lears/mysterian

 

So we can find part of a review of Chomsky's recent books with comments mentioning Chris Knight's critique of Chomsky.

 

And the comments have a lively debate about Chomsky vis a vis Chris Knight with Noam Chomsky getting the final word in, quite recently August 2017.

 

So what is interesting is that most of this engagement with Knight's critique of Chomsky is based solely on Knight's book, "Decoding Chomsky" and not based on Knight's tome, "Blood Relations" and his focus on the original human culture, the San Bushmen.

 

So it's not that Knight is wrong, nor that Chomsky is wrong, but in fact there is a deeper dynamic going on that neither of them realize. That dynamic was discovered as the foundation of quantum physics - noncommutative phase - and it was practiced as the focus of the original human culture - the San Bushmen - and passed on as Taoism and the "three gunas" of India - and Pythagorean philosophy - as Eddie Oshins corroborated my research.

 

And so what Chomsky calls Mysterianism - in regards to Newton's gravity and also the origin of human imagination as the means to connect the dots of identity - quite literally is solved by the Muses or more specifically the real meaning of nonwestern music.

 

I, actually, corresponded with Chomsky more than once - and in the last regards about my master's thesis that critiques Chomsky from the perspective of music theory and qigong training. Of course at that time in 2000 - my analysis was still too Western.

 

But if we realize that Chris Knight's original research remains largely unacknowledged by academia - and he himself was actually fired for doing direct action nonviolent guerrilla theatre - as satire - something about killing the banksters - and so he is no longer a professor, but still publishes and gives talks, etc. - then how much more so is the secret of the original human culture remaining unacknowledged by modern Western culture? haha. Quite so much!

 

 

 

I've never read anything by Chomsky but my gut tells me he's overrated, like Freud whose oeuvre I also haven't read.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/22/books/a-new-book-and-film-about-rare-amazonian-language.html

 

"In 2005 Dr. Everett shot to international prominence with a paper claiming that he had identified some peculiar features of the Pirahã language that challenged Noam Chomsky’s influential theory, first proposed in the 1950s, that human language is governed by “universal grammar,” a genetically determined capacity that imposes the same fundamental shape on all the world’s tongues."

 

"Even some of Dr. Everett’s admirers fault him for representing himself as a lonely voice of truth against an all-powerful Chomskian orthodoxy bent on stopping his ideas dead. It’s certainly the view advanced in the documentary, “The Grammar of Happiness,” which accuses unnamed linguists of improperly influencing the Brazilian government to deny his request to return to Pirahã territory, either with the film crew or with a research team from M.I.T., led by Ted Gibson, a professor of cognitive science."

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOuBggle4Y

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirahã_language

[Aletheia]

Just now, Starjumper said:

 

Maybe other people see it and realize that's the way the world is now, and don't need a million academic sources to beat themselves over the head with.  I guess it all depends on what crusade a person is on.

 

People do see it but what it ultimately comes down to is understanding nondualism, I think.

[voidisyinyang]

43 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

OK Drew, a superficial glance of that looks pretty convincing, and yet he was a full fledged avatar with all the magical abilities that avatars are known for.

 

So if you are into nonduality how do you explain the seeming divergence there?

 

yeah you raise an interesting point about India.

 

So for example we could have an argument about whether Saibaba also used standard cheap magic to "manifest" his dust or whatever vibhuti - as people who investigated him claimed to have exposed him being a fake.

 

Sathya Sai Baba - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba

Sathya Sai Baba was an Indian guru and philanthropist. He claimed to be the reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi. Sai Baba's materialisations of vibhuti (holy ash) and other small objects such ...... Here, he claimed that Sai Baba was "not just a fraud, but a dangerous sexual abuser". According to his interview, he had stories ...

‎Life · ‎Sathya Sai Organisation · ‎Institutions, projects and ... · ‎Recognition

Bhagawan Sri Sathya Sai Baba Vibuthi Miracles CloseUp Videos ...

▶ 6:19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXqBg1Uirbo

Aug 24, 2013 - Uploaded by Prem Sairam

Bhagawan Sri Sathya Sai Baba Vibuthi Miracles CloseUp Videos ... (Audio copyrighted to IODA On behalf of ...

 

Sathya Sai Baba's Fake Dirty magic tricks... fooling Millions - YouTube

▶ 7:08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2mmlExmLmA

Apr 25, 2011 - Uploaded by Samreen Moin

Amazingly fooling millions of followers, found this video on net and uploaded.

 

SATYA SAI BABA -Retelling The Story

www.uni-giessen.de/~gk1415/sai-baba.htm

In 1918during His earlier incarnation as the Sai Baba of Shirdi, He had revealed that ... He heals the sick with the aid of Vibhuti(sacred wood ash), which seems to ..... Doordarshan tape, no evidence of fraud by Satya Sai Baba can be deduced.

Producing Vibhuti on Satya Sai Baba's Photographs 'miraculously ...

www.carvaka4india.com/2012/09/producing-vibhuti-on-satya-sai-babas.html

Sep 14, 2012 - The first trick which Satya Sai Baba performed at his school was to take out pencils, .... vibhuti and empties it on the head of the Shirdi Sai Baba statue. ... in here about Sai Baba and I will definitely consider him a fake then: ...

Was Satya Sai Baba a fake godman? - Quora

https://www.quora.com/Was-Satya-Sai-Baba-a-fake-godman

Yes,he is. This is from a movie-a man asks to spiritual Guru who made apple from thin air-"If ... When such people saw Baba crushing capsules of vibhuti and giving it His devotees, they assumed that He is a fake godman and went about ...

How do Satya Sai Baba's followers make vibhuthi ('holy' ash) come out ...

https://www.quora.com/How-do-Satya-Sai-Babas-followers-make-vibhuthi-holy-ash-c...

How do Satya Sai Baba's followers make vibhuthi ("holy" ash) come out of his ... guru who, in addition to having a great reputation for holiness, was also a fraud.

Look…how Sai Baba performs like a bad magician | Science and ...

www.srai.org/look-how-sai-baba-performs-like-a-bad-magician/

Baba cheating with vibhuti(1.84 MB): ... Watch Sai Baba's right hand a moment after he takes a letter from the person he .... This guy is a fraud,a cheat & a sinner.

Sai Baba: A Whiff of Fraud | Nirmukta

nirmukta.com/2008/10/06/sai-baba-a-whiff-of-fraud/

Oct 6, 2008 - 25 posts - ‎22 authors

As a former devotee of Sathya Sai Baba I would like to relate an experience I had of his apparent omnipresence.

Sathya Sai Baba - RationalWiki

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba

Dec 28, 2016 - He claimed to be a reincarnation of the Shirdi Sai Baba (18??-1918). ... Apart from the fraud allegations, Baba has also been accused of sexual .... photographs, and, above all, holy ashes (vibhuti) with a wave of the hand.

 

But what I find more interesting is that in India under the Brahmin Vedic system - "jnana yoga" is considered the highest level of yoga and does not require any proof of magical abilities.

 

So only another Jnana can confirm whether someone else is also a Jnana. And yet, you seem to disagree with this view as you state - how did you put it?

 

Quote

a full fledged avatar with all the magical abilities that avatars are known for.

 

Right so I agree with you - if someone is a "full fledged...." but here's the deal - considering Indian Vedic Brahmin philosophy was based on the wrong idea of trying to "contain" infinity inside the body - and through symmetrical logic of, "I Am that I Am" - so that the "I-I" spontaneously emanates from the formless awareness through the body - as Ramana Maharshi described - this means in their system a person could be a "full fledged..." and yet because of their peculiar karma, then they never actually manifest any magical abilities.

 

And a further caveat in that view is that there are "siddhis" which are abilities manifested from the spiritual ego and then there is "shakti" which is the energy of the formless awareness itself manifesting, through the guru or avatar or whatever.

 

O.K. for example consider a well-known guru of this Vedic Brahmin view - Nisagaradatta - I spelled his name wrong but you probably know who I am talking about. Or if not I can just google my misspelling and....

Nisargadatta Maharaj - Wikipedia

 

O.K. so this dude - he was visited by the main disciple of Ramana Maharshi - H.W.L. Poonjaji. And Poonjaji said - yes Nisaragadatta achieved eternal liberation but he just never manifests any abilities.

 

Now, like you, I would say - sorry but that don't jive.

 

O.K. so moving along - then we have another well known Indian guru - oh what's his name - Krishnamurti. Right? Yep I spelled his name right.

The Core of the Teachings - J. Krishnamurti Online

www.jkrishnamurti.org/about-krishnamurti/the-core-of-the-teachings.php

The core of Krishnamurti's teaching is contained in the statement he made in 1929 when he said, “Truth is a pathless land”. Man cannot come to it through any ...

 

So again Poonjaji goes to see him - same thing. He says well this dude understands the truth but again he has no shakti ability.

 

And so things begin to get quite murky. Let's consider a guru still alive who had been a disciple of Krishnamurti. I blogged on him -  but I can't remember his name at all....let's see.

 

Well it doesn't matter - he also produced the fake vibhuti. haha.

 

So then if you read Bill Bodri's book - his tome - "Measuring Meditation" - he goes into the problem with Indian metaphysics based on the caste system.

 

For example Ramana Maharshi just let his body waste away since he had devotees to take care of him - and he got cancer and Ramakrishna also got cancer - and...

 

I mean the point of the book meaning the body needs to be resonated into the Emptiness just as much as the Mind - and also that the spiritual abilities then manifest along with this level of Emptiness.

 

So India is an interesting case because as Westerners - it is kind of like the popularity of Western Buddhism - it's a lot like Catholicism - with all the perv-predator priests with ejaculation addiction and all the rituals and fancy art work, etc. In other words - precisely because India is actually the foundation of the wrong Western symmetric math, from Vedic Brahmin caste culture - therefore White Westerners project their inner racist spiritual fantasies onto India.....

 

And so Poonjaji - when he went to Europe he said the problem with Europe is it lacked the yoga training tradition. But Poonjaji said the main problem with his Western students is that they would get to India and then just shack up for sex. Also the Aurobindo Ashram complained of the same problem of the Western students.

 

Yogananda had an ashram where his students would do 9 hours of nonstop full lotus meditation.

 

I have an article called "YOu can't Fake the Full lotus!"

 

But what I don't tell people is that it is a Freudian joke - meaning as Master Nan, Huai-chin states, the deeper you go into the full lotus meditation, the deeper the orgasmic bliss.

 

But on the opposite side if a male has ejaculation the female can just "fake" the orgasm and yet the orgasm from a male sitting in full lotus is the female orgasm!

 

So that is the real joke of that article. Ironically it got translated into  French for a French University class in Canada - studying Chinese traditional medicine healing.

 

You Can't Fake the Full Lotus (translated into French by Marie-France Vaillancourt for David Ownby class Course Blog HST2621, "The Religions of Modern China," given the winter session, 2012, at the University of Montreal.

 

So in terms of Westerners in awe of India - I would recommend the book "Karma Cola" which documents how the U.S. embassy had close ties with Osho to send his traumatized U.S. disciples straight into mental institutions in the U.S. after Osho was done with them (and probably the CIA MKULTRA as well). Meanwhile in contrast the Indians just wanted to drink more Coca-Cola.

 

 

Quote

 

Karma Cola: Marketing the Mystic East: Gita Mehta: 9780679754336 ...

https://www.amazon.com/Karma-Cola-Marketing-Mystic-East/dp/0679754334

Karma Cola: Marketing the Mystic East and over one million other books are available for Amazon Kindle. ... Karma Cola: Marketing the Mystic East Paperback – June 28, 1994. ... This item:Karma Cola: Marketing the Mystic East by Gita Mehta Paperback $9.42.

 

 

 

I can proudly say that Indian student activists at my alma mater - the U of Minnesota - demanded that the contract with Coca-cola be removed from campus - and they referenced my own activist work on campus - or at least the achievements of it.

 

And yet the Zong Gong school - which is tied into this thread as the students of Master Zhang Hongbao trained at Mt. Qingcheng - including http://springforestqigong.com - when I read that German Ph.D. it states that the Zong Gong school, among selling various qi-related products, included qi-enfused or qi-charged Coca-Cola! haha.

 

So we can see how the Westernization process works both ways with fatal results as obesity is now a global epidemic from the corn syrup in Coca-Cola and India is protesting against Coca-Cola draining their aquifers for free to turn the clean water into toxic corn syrup drinks for profit.

 

[Starjumper]

I'm not interested in stories of other gurus or how some amateurs think of Sai Baba as being a fraud, I told you he was a trickster, and he also was a real avatar.  I myself have experienced his powerful abilities first hand, and I have personally talked to people who have been with him and experienced other full fledged abilities and personally told me about them so don't bother me with that fraud stuff.  I know when he did his sleigh of hand tricks and I also know what's real through direct experience and from valid third party reports that academic types can only guess at, and I won't bother writing down all the episodes here like you are so good at, maybe some other day.  If you are really so fair (haha) look for the evidence of his magic and good deeds and post that here.

 

The question remains can a real avatar be a pervert, and the answer appears to be yes.  Who said that god or divinity had to act according to someone's modern rules of conduct?  Is someone here so superior that they pass judgement on divinity?  HUH?  Some new age types who see things through rose colored glasses.

 

If you care to discuss the question at hand instead of trying to prove some bullshit go ahead.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Starjumper

[Wu Ming Jen]

The celestial masters differ from daojai traditional Taoism and it is the celestial masters that are the birth place of seman retention. no ejaculation and all that stuff in a tainted taoist form.

 

 Many of their practices got them in trouble exiled and even executions involved. belief in talking to spirits being anti buddhist  and the list goes on. There is still a current school all the way back from year 142.

[Wells]

2 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I myself have experienced his powerful abilities first hand

 

Considering Drew's quotes, most likely while kneeling...or bowing low.

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Wells

[9th]

Understanding the macro level goes hand in hand with understanding the micro level.  Human concerns alone are a very slim aspect of the total equation - and civilized society is an even slimmer portion of that very slim aspect.  Spend your time wisely.

 

Think like the bacteria do.  Think like the Elder Gods do.  From whirling atoms to whirling galaxies.  Its all cosmic.  Go up and down at the same time.  Then you might start to get the full picture of the natural order.  And by all means, dont stop there - because once you start, you better finish.  Life is short.  Finish it before it finishes you.  Go ahead - be immortal.  

 

And good luck to you all.

[Starjumper]

2 hours ago, Wells said:

Blither, blither, blither:  ( Considering Drew's quotes, most likely while kneeling...or bowing low. )

 

HA!  keep trying,  I treat everyone as an equal, including the way I have talked with the immortal Babaji Nagaraj.  Actually with him I was a bit bossy, and in return he was a bit sassy.  It was a great learning experience.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Starjumper

[voidisyinyang]

2 hours ago, Apeiron&Peiron said:

The existing celestial masters lineages descended from the way of five pecks of rice and their practices have a 1-to-1 correspondence with the Dao De Jing if you understand the Confucian cipher...

 

Care to share on the forum?

 

 

[qicat]

10 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

Care to share on the forum?

 

 

http://www.indiana.edu/~p374/Analects_of_Confucius_(Eno-2015).pdf

 

http://course.zjnu.cn:8080/ddxfzx/userfiles/file/20110510203651234.pdf

 

http://www.ln.edu.hk/econ/staff/daodejing(22 August 2002).pdf

 

what, library closed?

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

2 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

As I posted earlier in the thread, I don't need to understand how it works in such minute detail to appreciate that it does work and benefit from its use. A fish certainly doesn't need to know about how the ocean or its own gills work--it's made that away and it has its own purpose, and focuses on that. It works.

 

Quote

At the rate we're going, researchers say that there will be no more fish in the oceans by 2048.

 

Now that's being overly optimistic but that's how science is.

 

Quote

. Across the globe, 1,851 species of fish —  21 percent of all fish species evaluated —  were deemed at risk of extinction by the IUCN in 2010, including more than a third of sharks and rays.

 

So that's 2010 but in 2016 and 2017 - there were global "coral bleaching" events that wiped out the coral which holds 25% of life in the oceans.

 

Quote

Coral reefs not only provide homes to over 4,000 species of fish

 

 

Quote

 

More than 90 percent of world's coral reefs will die by 2050 | The ...

www.independent.co.uk/.../environment-90-percent-coral-reefs-die-2050-climate-cha...

Mar 13, 2017 - “

 

 

O.K. again this is being overly optimistic.

 

2 major global coral bleaching events in 2 years is completely unprecedented in history.

 

Meaning that when the Arctic is ice-free for the first time in 3 million years - this fall or next fall - then 50 gigatons of methane will burst out of the East Siberian Arctic Shelf - the biggest shelf in the world - and cause a doubling of global warming in a few weeks after that event.

 

People don't get how abrupt global warming works.

 

In the last 40 years we have created half of the global warming of industrial civilization of the last 250 years.

 

And so - abrupt  meaning the global warming is accelerating exponentially.

 

Why? Because of Western civilization that is not real Taoism.

 

Real Taoism was from African original human culture - it survived in China as secret society training and then spread as the qigong revolution to help China westernize.

 

So what's the result - as China Westernized then qigong masters spread into the West - and so you get this watered down Westernized qigong training. haha.

 

It's all post-modern post-apocalypse stuff.

 

Yes the fish don't need to know - but the fish are going down with us because of our stupidity of Western civilization.

 

People can say they don't want to know or pretend it's all good - and in the end it will be for the Universe does not have entropy - it's just how we perceive the acceleration of space as the accelerating slowing down of time - it's a mass psychological projection of the accelerating destruction of ecological space on Earth and the accelerating speeding of time on Earth to a geometric "zero" point.

 

So yes ignorance is bliss - at least for a little while left.

 

Possible a couple months or who knows? Maybe less, maybe a little longer -a  few years - at most 10 years.

 

Quote

As I’ve pointed out previously, I doubt there will be a human on Earth by mid-2026. Indeed, I doubt there will be complex life on this planet by then. It’ll be a small world, as was the case in the wake of each of the five prior Mass Extinction events on Earth. Bacteria, fungi, and microbes will dominate.

 

This dude was a top rated professor at his University - and a conservation biologist but he got cracked down on for speaking out on the real science.

 

https://guymcpherson.com/2017/02/faster-than-expected/

 

Similarly Peter Wadhams shared his office with Stephen Hawking.

 

Most people have heard of Stephen Hawking right? But probably not of Peter Wadhams. haha.

 

Only he's been to the Arctic more than any other scientist, studying arctic ice and leading expeditions - usually with nuke-powered subs.

 

So then Peter Wadhams was saying how the arctic will be ice-free in the next couple years - not in 20 years or more as the corporate science states.

 

So guess what? Wadhams also got fired. Now he teaches in Ireland - not quite the panache of sharing an office with Stephen Hawking. haha.

 

Of course no one notices.

 

So in other words when corporate science says - yeah it's gonna be real bad in 50 years? That's a lie to make people keep shopping and keep working and not freak out, etc.

 

At the rate we are going there will be no fish in the oceans in 20 years - not in 30 years.

 

And these fish have been around for hundreds - some of them hundreds of millions of years.

 

So the Western industrial global ecological species extinction is the fastest mass extinction crisis in global history of life on Earth for billions of years.

 

But hey - the fish know what they are doing.

 

So no need to actually read any details on anything. haha.

 

Oops no more fish.

 

 

[Earl Grey]

The wonderful thing about the ignore option is that I no longer need see posts by people who bombard the forum with morbid drivel. But I also realize that I have more fun not using the option and instead ignoring the ignobleness of what they say since everyone else can already see it. 

 

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2017/02/08/social-briefing-2-others-see-differently-see/

 

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2017/02/24/social-briefing-3-4-social-mindsets-3-derail-1-leads-success/

 

 

If You Do This	You May Think You Seem	You May Seem
Share what’s on your mind before basic personal information	Interesting and offbeat	Self-centered, eccentric, inappropriate
Show little attention to your grooming and style	Natural, not concerned with superficialities	Socially unaware, careless
Withhold attention or interest	Cool and confident	Uninterested, rejecting, cold
Listen, but don’t add topics to the conversation	Interested, thoughtful	Dull, self-involved
Focus on only one topic	Passionate	Boring, self-absorbed, lacking in curiosity
Deliver a lecture on something you know a lot about	Smart, interesting	Bombastic, boring, self-absorbed
Introduce topics with the goal of convincing others of your way of thinking	Enlightened, smart, passionate	Tedious, draining
Talk about “charged” topics such as salaries or religion	Passionate, interesting	Insensitive, offensive
Dominate the conversation with jokes and humor	Entertaining, lively, funny	Tedious, draining
Focus on your individuality rather than your commonality with others	Interesting, eccentric	Inaccessible, self-involved, socially awkward
Share more than others do	Open, honest, revealing	Burdensome, inappropriate
Share much less than others	In control, mysterious	Closed, uninteresting, cold
Speak more quickly and pause more briefly than others	Interesting, energized	Emotionally draining, alienating
Speak more slowly or pause longer than others	Relaxed, comfortable, thoughtful	Boring, tedious
Speak more loudly	Self-confident, fun, interesting	Bombastic, self-satisfied, offensive
Speak much more than others	Interesting, informative	Self-absorbed, difficult to connect with
Act inflexibly to unexpected events	Determined, appropriately demanding	Needy, entitled, high maintenance
Present yourself as superior to others	Important, impressive	Intimidating, insecure
Present yourself as inferior to others	Modest, endearing	Awkward, lacking confidence
Blame others	Honest, straightforward	Difficult, socially needy, victimized
Focus on negative aspects of a situation	Straightforward, realistic	Unlikable, unpleasant
Make less eye contact than others	Normal, respectful	Rejecting, uninterested, shy, awkward

 

[doc benway]

15 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

The wonderful thing about the ignore option is that I no longer need see posts by people who bombard the forum with morbid drivel. But I also realize that I have more fun not using the option and instead ignoring the ignobleness of what they say since everyone else can already see it. 

 

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2017/02/08/social-briefing-2-others-see-differently-see/

 

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2017/02/24/social-briefing-3-4-social-mindsets-3-derail-1-leads-success/

 

 

If You Do This	You May Think You Seem	You May Seem
Share what’s on your mind before basic personal information	Interesting and offbeat	Self-centered, eccentric, inappropriate
Show little attention to your grooming and style	Natural, not concerned with superficialities	Socially unaware, careless
Withhold attention or interest	Cool and confident	Uninterested, rejecting, cold
Listen, but don’t add topics to the conversation	Interested, thoughtful	Dull, self-involved
Focus on only one topic	Passionate	Boring, self-absorbed, lacking in curiosity
Deliver a lecture on something you know a lot about	Smart, interesting	Bombastic, boring, self-absorbed
Introduce topics with the goal of convincing others of your way of thinking	Enlightened, smart, passionate	Tedious, draining
Talk about “charged” topics such as salaries or religion	Passionate, interesting	Insensitive, offensive
Dominate the conversation with jokes and humor	Entertaining, lively, funny	Tedious, draining
Focus on your individuality rather than your commonality with others	Interesting, eccentric	Inaccessible, self-involved, socially awkward
Share more than others do	Open, honest, revealing	Burdensome, inappropriate
Share much less than others	In control, mysterious	Closed, uninteresting, cold
Speak more quickly and pause more briefly than others	Interesting, energized	Emotionally draining, alienating
Speak more slowly or pause longer than others	Relaxed, comfortable, thoughtful	Boring, tedious
Speak more loudly	Self-confident, fun, interesting	Bombastic, self-satisfied, offensive
Speak much more than others	Interesting, informative	Self-absorbed, difficult to connect with
Act inflexibly to unexpected events	Determined, appropriately demanding	Needy, entitled, high maintenance
Present yourself as superior to others	Important, impressive	Intimidating, insecure
Present yourself as inferior to others	Modest, endearing	Awkward, lacking confidence
Blame others	Honest, straightforward	Difficult, socially needy, victimized
Focus on negative aspects of a situation	Straightforward, realistic	Unlikable, unpleasant
Make less eye contact than others	Normal, respectful	Rejecting, uninterested, shy, awkward

 

 

I ignored Drew for a while simply to be able to get through more of a thread with less effort.

At the same time, I want to work with my own impatience and tendency to be dismissive.

So it'll probably be a bit back and forth depending on my mood.

But I'm enjoying the thread and feel some love.

 

_/\_

[qicat]

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

 

but to call everyone else "new age BS" is downright condescending and disrespectful.

 

 

 

well.. actually... since I am not really familiar with New Age BS, based on his comment I started to look more at it online. Not exactly sure what I am looking for though... as there is no really "Manual on contacting Celestial Masters" so far on New Age internet... but who knows...