Marblehead Posted August 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, neti neti said: I'm just a fool with fingers and a keyboard. Who knows what this thing will say next? Yeah, I noticed that but you still have a long way to go to attain my level of chaos. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 26, 2018 substantiation or un-substantiation is in the eye of the beholder - obviously. (or if one prefers in the eye of the eye of the beholder) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neti neti Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) I'll make sure to keep that in mind when I read your posts. Please feel free to apply the same logic when you find it needful to suggest an entire sub-forum for doctrines you're simply unfamiliar with. Edited August 27, 2018 by neti neti Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 27, 2018 8 hours ago, neti neti said: I'll make sure to keep that in mind when I read your posts. Please feel free to apply the same logic when you find it needful to suggest an entire sub-forum for doctrines you're simply unfamiliar with. not really factors since only Brahman exists, and nothing happens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 27, 2018 21 minutes ago, 3bob said: only Brahman exists My chair exists. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neti neti Posted August 27, 2018 1 hour ago, 3bob said: not really factors since only Brahman exists, and nothing happens. Indeed, indeed. Though if it closely resembled your reality, I doubt you would make a mockery of that pointer. Which is all it is. A pointer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neti neti Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Marblehead said: My chair exists. At best, chair-ing seems to be happening. Edited August 27, 2018 by neti neti Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 27, 2018 1 hour ago, neti neti said: At best, chair-ing seems to be happening. That's a novel (for me) way to put it. Yeah, my chair seems to be happening. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Marblehead said: That's a novel (for me) way to put it. Yeah, my chair seems to be happening. may all the days of your chair be ergonomic, and give comfort during times of coffee. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, neti neti said: Indeed, indeed. Though if it closely resembled your reality, I doubt you would make a mockery of that pointer. Which is all it is. A pointer. how could you or I have a "my reality" - which sounds separate...with even such sounding not being real. Edited August 27, 2018 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neti neti Posted August 27, 2018 12 minutes ago, 3bob said: how could you or I have a "my reality" - which sounds separate...with even such sounding not being real. The same way you and I seem to reply back and forth: within the illusion of consciousness. Parasiva is identity in non-existence. There is no real or unreal as That. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neti neti Posted August 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Marblehead said: That's a novel (for me) way to put it. Yeah, my chair seems to be happening. There is only novelty. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neti neti Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Marblehead said: That's a novel (for me) way to put it. Yeah, my chair seems to be happening. So easy to appropriate the chair in particular as belonging to someone yes? No you, thus no belongings. Just chair-ing seemingly happening, amidst all this that is only myself. Unidentified identity. Edited August 27, 2018 by neti neti Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 27, 2018 3 hours ago, neti neti said: So easy to appropriate the chair in particular as belonging to someone yes? No you, thus no belongings. Just chair-ing seemingly happening, amidst all this that is only myself. Unidentified identity. Yes, my chair was chairing regardless of who was sitting on it. How totally unbiased!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted August 27, 2018 and your chair is chairing in such a similar manner that an apple tree apples... or a human world, humans... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 27, 2018 1 minute ago, silent thunder said: and your chair is chairing in such a similar manner that an apple tree apples... or a human world, humans... Yes. Isn't it amazing? All things have their own Tzujan. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted August 27, 2018 It really is... amazing beyond belief. you remind me of a potent conversation with a friend at work. sometimes my exuberance and bouyancy can be a bit... irksome. Someone at lunch asked me how my sandwich was... I must have been rather vocal in my enjoyment and eating sounds I'm guessing and I responded "ohmmagod... issamazing!". And my dear friend, who has a brilliant mind, is a keen scholar, a shakespearean actor, a master woodworker and a film star as well, responded. "is it Creighton!? is it amazing?! or is it just a fucking ham sandwich? jesus!" we all paused and grinned and let it hang, no one was triggered and so we moved on. we often challenge each other's notions this way, it's not mean spirited, it's passionately intrigued. anyway. Some days later, my friend came to me and said roughly this... "You know Creighton, I was thinking about it more and when you consider everything it takes to make a sandwich... it really is amazing! In order to make a ham sandwich you first have to have the entire universe. The farms to grow the wheat and raise the pigs and the tomatoes and lettuce. The baker and the bakery to bake the bread. The butcher. The roads to ship all these things. The people who made and repair the roads. The factories that create the trucks. The refineries that make the gasoline and the mechanics that keep them running. The people who made the knives and the mayo and mustard and the plates and the napkins. The sun that shines, the rain that falls... all the way back to the supernova that formed the heavier elements which are the basis of our solar system and planetary home..." Every single aspect of this fluid, unfolding process is utterly amazing and so full of spirit and magic, it is beyond expression. but not beyond simple experience. raw, simple beingness here and now reality... unreality how magnificent! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted August 27, 2018 9 hours ago, Marblehead said: My chair exists. Chair today gone tomorrow how unreal and real. My great, great grandfather sat in a chair 400 years ago and now I can not find them anywhere, dust blown into the wind. Real one minute unreal the next. So I bought a new chairs. I mostly just sit on the floor and my chairs get all mad so I am giving them back to my great, great grandfather it is only right because I lost his chairs. Ham sandwich ....tempting. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 27, 2018 Sure. Over the years I have left many things behind. Your great, great, grandfather was left behind as was his chair. I guess we could say that this is an example of the universe not being static. Else all things would exist eternally. I doubt that would be good. And good ham sandwiches don't last long. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neti neti Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Marblehead said: Yes, my chair was chairing regardless of who was sitting on it. How totally unbiased!!! Yup. The novelty which strikes me most though, is that it was chairing before you knew it was chairing, is chairing without any input on your behalf, and continues chairing even once no longer under your conscious observation. 3 hours ago, silent thunder said: and your chair is chairing in such a similar manner that an apple tree apples... or a human world, humans... There's a common theme here. All the wonderful worlds of names and forms seem to just, name and form right along... rising and falling... appearing and disappearing. One thing remains constant. And I'd say That, is about as "real" as it gets. Edited August 27, 2018 by neti neti 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wstein Posted August 28, 2018 On 8/26/2018 at 4:23 AM, Marblehead said: But I am here and you responded so you acknowledge that I am here. Speech and one are two. And please don't tell me that my chair does not exist. "Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no spoon." Or chair.... Or you. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neti neti Posted August 28, 2018 Quote Ashtavakra said: "Some think that something exists, and others that nothing does. Rare is the man who does not think either, and is thereby free from distraction." Ch. XVIII. THE WISE - #42 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 28, 2018 11 hours ago, neti neti said: Yup. The novelty which strikes me most though, is that it was chairing before you knew it was chairing, is chairing without any input on your behalf, and continues chairing even once no longer under your conscious observation. Yep. Isn't life amazing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 28, 2018 9 hours ago, wstein said: "Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no spoon." Or chair.... Or you. Perhaps there is no truth either? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neti neti Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Marblehead said: Perhaps there is no truth either? If there were, can it be known? Is the individual equipped to know it? Can one distinguish or pinpoint that which makes pinpointing possible? Perhaps we're blindfolded and just pushed in the general direction of the donkey. Thankfully, there's a long enough line of guests at this party helping us stay on track towards realizing the goal. Perhaps the only possible knowing of the truth, is in being it. Edited August 29, 2018 by neti neti Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
