True fajin - explosive strike - one inch punch

[Starjumper]

Quote

(Hancock wrote)

 

Explosive strike got it.

 

So is this how.it goes, if I want to do fajin, I would cultivate then at the moment, channel my refined chi into the part of my body that's about to connect, an released? 

 

When I try to let my intuition guide me, it's like I'm.moving in one quick motion from my hips an drawing chi from my kidney areas.

 

 

I'll try to explain some of the mechanics of the explosive strike here.  When I do it, which is rare, I don't think about energy at all, so it isn't required.  I have noticed though, that if you store up energy in your body and then use the right posture that a fajin does tend to pop out automatically, so possibly building up chi power helps but like I said I don't think about it and one doesn't need to focus on their energy in order to do it.

 

Technically there are other types of fajin, but the one referred to by the masters of old is the explosive strike using a short motion.  The short motion is required to make it more explosive.

 

A few points that are involved are that you need to be very relaxed and soft in order to do it, and you need to imagine that you are hitting something a couple of inches on the far side of the object you will be striking in order to generate the penetrating power.  The structure of the body that is involved forms sort of an 'S' shape and the movement is initiated by a snapping motion of the waist, which you mentioned, as if the kidney area suddenly expanded, which may be why you also mention your kidney area.

 

It is also good to train your fast twitch muscles, which is something that most chi kung does not address.

 

So the waist snaps forward suddenly, with a feeling a lot like a sneeze, and two waves go out, like waves that go out a whip.  One wave goes up and out the arm to the hand, and another wave goes down the leg to the rearmost foot.  Once when I did it my foot slipped back and that took the power out of the hand motion.  Another thing that is involved is that the shoulder moves down ward and the intent of the hand is also downwards, a lot like a hammer strike, but with an open palm the way I do it.  You can look for some of these elements in the video I made which shows a one inch strike in slow motion and with bare arms.

 

Here is that video:

 

 

I'll make another video later of some of the motions that you can practice in order to refine the ability.

 

Questions are invited.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

Here is a list of other things that technically qualify as fajin, yet most of them are not an explosive strike so do not fit the definition of fajin that is referred to by the masters of old.

 

http://www.denner.org/reinhard/neijia/terms/listOfJings.html

[Hancock]

I appreciate the thread, it's informative. The fact there are different types of fajin has thrown my research off.

 

I do see what your talking about the S and the whiplike movement. 

 

It'd be great to see the instructions on how to properly perform this style of fajin.  . 

 

Is fajin just the quick S movement or is it the punch too?

Could you explain the history of this technique? Maybe throw in the origin story of how it was invented?

 

Also could you define an explosive strike a little more clearly, is this the on my mind or are there more and if so are they called fajin?

 

What style of fighting is this from? 

 

Where did you learn it, from who?

 

[Wells]

An "explosive strike" is not "fajin", it's "fali".

"fajin" is done with the power of chi (internal power), "fali" is done with the power of muscles (external power).

 

This here is true "fajin":

[Hancock]

5 minutes ago, Wells said:

An "explosive strike" is not "fajin", it's "fali".

"fajin" is done with the power of chi (internal power), "fali" is done with the power of muscles (external power).

 

This here is true "fajin":

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Man the language differences are reAlly interesting.

 

There's Fa li, and a type of Fajin that mean the same.

 

Then there's the internal power fajin.

 

Thank you Wells and Starjumper for helping me to understand these things. No wonder I was confused looking it up lol.

 

Wells with supernatural fajin how do you develop it? Also can you explain Fa Li, a little bit? Also what style is it from the supernatural fajin, and fa li your talking bout Wells?

 

I'm very interested in both types of Fajin you both are talking about. Thanks guys for working together to help me understand, I know you've had your differences but the way your helping me out together. Much appreciated in advance

Edited August 13, 2017 by Hancock

[Wells]

40 minutes ago, Hancock said:

Wells with supernatural fajin how do you develop it?

 

The Nei Kung (internal work) of true Neijia (internal martial arts) develops Nei Jin (internal power). The projection of Nei Jin is Fa Jin.

 

Quote

Also can you explain Fa Li, a little bit?

 

Li is the expression of muscle strength.

In a wider sense, every normal physical movement is an expression of muscle strength and therefore Fa Li.

In a narrower sense, every move in an external martial art (for example "public Tai Chi" like that what Starjumper seems to practice, Karate, Judo etc.) is Fa Li.

 

Quote

Also what style is it from the supernatural fajin, and fa li your talking bout Wells?

 

Every chinese internal martial art (Neijia) which is not watered down and which didn't lose its essence, develops "supernatural" fajin.

 

Quote

I'm very interested in both types of Fajin you both are talking about.

 

Internal martial arts which lost their essence and therefore became external martial arts (like the common "public Tai Chi") have lost the knowledge to develop Fa Jin. They just develop Fa Li but claim that they develop Fa Jin, which is a delusion.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Wells

[Hancock]

4 minutes ago, Wells said:

 

The Nei Kung (internal work) of true Neijia (internal martial arts) develops Nei Jin (internal power). The projection of Nei Jin is Fa Jin.

 

 

Li is the expression of muscle strength.

In a wider sense, every normal physical movement is an expression of muscle strength and therefore Fa Li.

In a narrower sense, every move in an external martial art (for example "public Tai Chi" like that what Starjumper seems to practice, Karate, Judo etc.) is Fa Li.

 

 

Every chinese internal martial art (Neijia) which is not watered down and which didn't lose its essence, develops "supernatural" fajin.

 

 

Internal martial arts which lost their essence and therefore became external martial arts (like the common "public Tai Chi") without have lost the knowledge to develop Fa Jin. They just develop Fa Li but claim that they develop Fa Jin, which is a delusion.

 

Wells if it's cool with the people who post in this thread, just chill in the ripping on other styles or individuals. Kind of stick to the facts, I'm trying to avoid personal beefs so I can selfishly get the best information i can. your personal beef is something you should handle when it doesn't interfere with my learning process. Please really expect my selfish desire to become awesome in physical and metaphysical kung fu.

 

What does it mean when martial art loses its essence, and how does it regain its essence? Wells how does a martial arts essence work, that's interesting to me.

 

I've heard the Li definition before. So now I'm understanding on that front. 

 

Starjumper, with your traditional do you develop qi separately to physical forms or as you go along?  Also bud, I've read that lost of jings again. Cool stuff. I experience some of those things where my skin sometimes becomes supersuctionlike, interesting as can be, if you can share how in can develop that it'd be great. Right now it comes and goes during different things.

 

Thanks again guys.

[Hancock]

http://mikesigman.blogspot.com

 

I found this an I think it explains the difference in Wells and Starjumper, both your methods of development. Please both comment to help me bridge my understanding.

[Starjumper]

If you look at this list I posted earlier  http://www.denner.org/reinhard/neijia/terms/listOfJings.html  you will see that both types are described as fajin.  the one inch punch is described under "Inch power" and the the projection of internal energy by hand is described under "vibrating power", and I can do both types.  To say one is not fajin is incorrect.  To say that one is 'true' fajin is also not correct, but I reiterate, what is commonly referred to as fajin by advanced tai chi masters is the explosive strike that I described earlier, so it is the primary meaning.  I was trained for eight years by a high level Taoist wizard who was also most advanced kung fu master, it was nothing like karate or Judo and I have never practiced those!

 

If you want to develope the what someone calls supernatural fajin, which actually isn't supernatural, then you would need to do a real nei kung system, the kind that is said to contain ten thousand techniques, for many years, learned from a real chi kung master.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

Video was deleted.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

Look at this video, it is of the Chen grandmaster, Chen Xiaowang, demonstrating fajin in one of his tai chi forms, read the description to see how it mentions fajin.  Can you imagine that the grandmaster of the original style of combat tai chi has lost the true essence of the art like Wells says, or is Wells incorrect?  The fajin part is in the last quarter of this video.

 

 

 

[Starjumper]

 

This type of punching fajin which you see in the beginning of the video comes from the waist is different than the one I described in the video.  In this case the waist makes a twisting jerking motion and the wave motion is more in the form of a spiral.  Later he does it with hand, elbow, or shoulder.  He also demonstrates a double punch as fajin.  I can also do these.  All these are initiated by a sudden snapping motion of the waist.  In tai chi the waist always leads.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

This is a video of Feng Zhiqiang, well known and acknowledged to be a high level tai chi master, who is my grandfather teacher of my Chen style, demonstrating some fajin in his form although he isn't doing it with the maximum explosive power available.  For those who like to make up stories by saying I learned tai chi that has lost it's essence and instead learned karate.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Starjumper

[Hancock]

I appreciate the visual aides very much. Thank you for your making that video for my learning benefit.

 

I see what you mean about from the hip.

 

An i say supernatural as a way of talking, I mean how are these things not natural if we can develop them? Anyhow.

 

I knew someone taught directly by Grandmaster Chen Xioawang mini think they're in Seattle nowadays. His yang chi is crazy radiant an it's always a pick me up to talk to him. Good guy does charities an what not. 

 

I think Wells was speaking to schools with no internal power or rip offs that are nowadays at mcdojos, but I'm not entirely sure.

 

I want to go over these vids some more. But feel free to respond to what I've said and also Starjumper, how is internal development done in taichi?

 

I was in a seniors taichi class when i was a caretaker and I saw whitish puffs in the air around people, I later learned they were chi from the instructor. He helped me out initially but I had to move to take care of a sick friend, then other things happen but now im.back on the path starting with cultivation.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Hancock

[Starjumper]

22 hours ago, Hancock said:

http://mikesigman.blogspot.com

 

I found this an I think it explains the difference in Wells and Starjumper, both your methods of development. Please both comment to help me bridge my understanding.

 

The difference.  Well well well, Wells is claiming that I don't know what fajin is and have learned from people who have lost the essence of the Taoist internal martial arts, and by doing that he is also saying that some of the top masters in the world don't know what fajin is and that they have also lost the essence of the internal arts.  So you see what is really happening is he is looking in the mirror, and talking about his own teacher, kind of like what you have posted in your new thread.

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Starjumper

[Michael Sternbach]

Yang style Taiji instructor Eli Montaigue explaining fajin (using basically the same technique Starjumper demonstrated above):

 

 

[Starjumper]

3 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Yang style Taiji instructor Eli Montaigue explaining fajin (using basically the same technique Starjumper demonstrated above)

 

Thanks, that's the real thing there.  Good video.

[Starjumper]

Hancock, instead of saying more about Wells view of reality I'll send you some info in a private message, in order to keep from creating a shit storm in this thread.

 

Internal power - that's a different subject, you can see my views on it in a thread titled "ten thousand ways of nei kung"

Edited August 14, 2017 by Starjumper

[Hancock]

13 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

Hancock, instead of saying more about Wells view of reality I'll send you some info in a private message, in order to keep from creating a shit storm in this thread.

 

Internal power - that's a different subject, you can see my views on it in a thread titled "ten thousand ways of nei kung"

Thanks for doing your part is keeping the forum fight free.

 

Yes I will appreciate that very much.

 

As for Wells claiming you being fake, an others claims against Wells,  ive learned when it comes to reputation that our actions will give us credibility when words are used against us. Though many martial artists use fists, on an online forum it's best in my opinion to just prove it over time like you both do with diagrams and the videos.

In essence I've found you both are right in your own ways and have learned different definitions to some things, so calling one a jackass or the other a douchebag is less productive an therefore begins shows although you have obtain knowledge and expertise that there is still room for character growth. I don't mean offense if anyone is offended but i do mean to speak the truth.

So let's get passed the who said malarky an focus on pragmatism and practical results in development. At least I ask this be done when dealing with me interpersonally.

[Starjumper]

20 hours ago, Hancock said:

An i say supernatural as a way of talking, I mean how are these things not natural if we can develop them?

 

Of course, I think it was Wells who started using the word supernatural here.

 

20 hours ago, Hancock said:

I knew someone taught directly by Grandmaster Chen Xioawang mini think they're in Seattle nowadays. His yang chi is crazy radiant an it's always a pick me up to talk to him. Good guy does charities an what not. 

 

Interesting, I'm from Seattle myself, where are you living these days?  There is a lot of high quality knowledge to be had in the internal martial arts in the Seattle area.  I think possibly it is because it is close to China, but mainly due to the influence of a few real top masters who weren't greedy and who were into sharing as much as possible, they set the tome for the area it seems.  My learning Chen style did a lot for my Yang style, and learning my chi kung did a lot for my Chen style.

 

20 hours ago, Hancock said:

 

I want to go over these vids some more. But feel free to respond to what I've said and also Starjumper, how is internal development done in taichi?

 

I would say that although tai chi is an excellent type of chi kung for balancing energy and healing that it doesn't focus a lot on cultivating chi power.  So it depends on what you mean by internal development.  If you mean cultivating chi power then I think nei kung is more directly focussed on that.  By the way, it was also my nei kung that contained all the ways of practicing to develop fajin, however that was never mentioned, it was for us to discover.

[Hancock]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

 

Of course, I think it was Wells who started using the word supernatural here.

 

 

Interesting, I'm from Seattle myself, where are you living these days?  There is a lot of high quality knowledge to be had in the internal martial arts in the Seattle area.  I think possibly it is because it is close to China, but mainly due to the influence of a few real top masters who weren't greedy and who were into sharing as much as possible, they set the tome for the area it seems.  My learning Chen style did a lot for my Yang style, and learning my chi kung did a lot for my Chen style.

 

 

I would say that although tai chi is an excellent type of chi kung for balancing energy and healing that it doesn't focus a lot on cultivating chi power.  So it depends on what you mean by internal development.  If you mean cultivating chi power then I think nei kung is more directly focussed on that.  By the way, it was also my nei kung that contained all the ways of practicing to develop fajin, however that was never mentioned, it was for us to discover.

I'm originally from Puerto Rico, lol but now im in a small out of the way town in Arkansas. Living at the foot of a mountain. Yea my buddy is like that too, very open an helpful. 

 

 

An by internal development from your words I think i mean nei kung. I'm looking to develop my chi for personal an spiritual and daily usage. I always seemed to have a reserve of strength until I had sex with this one woman. My life fell apart an my strength just disappeared, but her life got loads better.

A shaman friend said she stole a large part of my vitality an the only way to get better was to develop. He gave me notes, but had to go an he never returned. So there were other reasons too but that's kind of what I'm after, restoring an going beyond where I was.

 

[Sudhamma]

Ever wonder that fajin can be physically expressed differently from that sudden explosive power (as shown in the video posted by Michael Sternback) to a seemingly indiscernible soft execution (as shown in the video posted by Wells minus the fire-starters)? The difference is in the degree of qi-cultivation between the masters, some attaining higher level than others and do not necessarily be visually expressive when 'fajin' in throwing or incapacitating the opponent. A high-level master can fajin with his back, shoulders and fore-arms, hands not just the one-inch punch or palm. In the Southern arts, fajin and fali come together, in executing the 'external' forms/toulu of those MA, jin and li have to be expressed otherwise, it is merely brutish or tasteless. So, everyone is talking about the same thing yet failing to agree with each other. Hope that I've not touched any raw nerves, and i apologise if I do.

 

[Hancock]

8 minutes ago, Sudhamma said:

Ever wonder that fajin can be physically expressed differently from that sudden explosive power (as shown in the video posted by Michael Sternback) to a seemingly indiscernible soft execution (as shown in the video posted by Wells minus the fire-starters)? The difference is in the degree of qi-cultivation between the masters, some attaining higher level than others and do not necessarily be visually expressive when 'fajin' in throwing or incapacitating the opponent. A high-level master can fajin with his back, shoulders and fore-arms, hands not just the one-inch punch or palm. In the Southern arts, fajin and fali come together, in executing the 'external' forms/toulu of those MA, jin and li have to be expressed otherwise, it is merely brutish or tasteless. So, everyone is talking about the same thing yet failing to agree with each other. Hope that I've not touched any raw nerves, and i apologise if I do.

 

It was chill already, buuuut thanks for adding g to the sentiment of unity. Much appreciated bro.

 

 So cultivation determines expression of fajin. Cool..Cool..

 

That Southern arts sounds interesting, I was curious about how to bridge the physical an internal practices. Could y'all speak more to that?

[Hancock]

I think this might be genuine, what's your take on it? I see/feel  a kind of for lack of better words a force push the people back, looks like compressed air or fog. Might just be me but yeah, so I was wondering if you guys can tell if this is genuinely fajin

 

 

 

[Hancock]

On 8/13/2017 at 7:03 PM, Starjumper said:

Here's a video I just made for you of some things to work on to learn how to do the fajin palm strike.

 

 

 

Also been practicing that too.  Your video is helping a lot. Thank you Steve