The limits of free speech

[Hancock]

13 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

 

Well they needed it the most. So it actually ended up helping hundreds of thousands of people.

Thats how racism thrives.

It does enough good so it seems to outweigh the bad.

 

Blind people being healed is great. One instructor of mine was blind, and a bjt of a racist. Lol but she had a good heart. Til the day she died she complained how I wasn't the white man with brown hair, she pictured as her perfect heir. But her grandson wasn't ever interested and some universal force pressured us together despite our dislike for each other in some situations.

She also was an amputee and my other instructor took care of her. He instructed us both, but after a while he wanted to recharge himself an passed me to her for a bit be for she passed.

R. Elaine K.K, an B.D.F the3rd, I assisted with them for years learning about ego and compassion and human spirit and developing my natural gifts. 

 

They said I was a nuisance but one th a was necessary for them personally to cultivate. Only now am I realizing what they meant. To overcome their personality prejudices, they needed someone so different and representative of what they were taught to hate. That way they could learn love and understanding and compassion from a nonego perspective.

 

Boom epiphany. Thanks for whoever made this thread and the people who wrote up til this point. It helped me realize my teachers genuinely hated me but over time learned to discipline that hate out of themselves. Might not be logical.

[Hancock]

Here's what vision of the world as it could be in views of race, it's from a song.

 

Powerful

Empire Cast

People been talking about it
We won't just stand here in silence
Can't stop the fire from rising
Rising
Ooh Ooh

People don't you be afraid
So many innocents slain
This is an era for change
Change

And Malcolm's probably turning in his grave

Every shade was beautifully made

And Powerful
There's so much strength in you and me
Powerful
A breathe away from victory

I matter
You matter
We matter, all
I matter
You matter
We matter, all

Powerful
Powerful

I see a colorful future
Where skin don't define any human
And stars are the only thing shooting
Shooting, wow oh

Mothers that bury their child
How can we sit there and hide
Change comes when all take a stand now
Stand up
Stand up

Martin's speech still echoes in my brain

Every shade was beautifully made

And Powerful
There's so much strength in you and me
Powerful
A breathe away from victory

I matter
You matter
We matter, all
I matter
You matter
We matter, all

Powerful
Powerful

Oh Oh, Oh Oh, Oh.Oh
Oh Oh, Oh Oh, Oh.Oh
Oh Oh, Oh Oh, Oh.Oh

Powerful

There's so much strength in you and me
Powerful
A breathe away from victory

I matter
You matter
We matter, all
I matter
You matter
We matter, all

Powerful
Powerful

 

Here's the song

 

[MooNiNite]

31 minutes ago, Hancock said:

Thats how racism thrives

Racism doesnt thrive. It is the modern age. it is practically non existant.

Racism mostly thrives through donation centers that help specific groups of people based on race. (all the while declining help to others that dont share the particular race).

[Hancock]

13 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

Racism doesnt thrive. It is the modern age. it is practically non existant.

Racism mostly thrives through donation centers that help specific groups of people based on race. (all the while declining help to others that dont share the particular race).

 

 

[Hancock]

18 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

Racism doesnt thrive. It is the modern age. it is practically non existant.

Racism mostly thrives through donation centers that help specific groups of people based on race. (all the while declining help to others that dont share the particular race).

You can't tell the truth to a liar. 

[MooNiNite]

1 hour ago, Hancock said:

You can't tell the truth to a liar. 

You're manipulated by the media. The Nazis are gone friend. 

[liminal_luke]

 

If you don`t like what the freedom of speech rally`s represent and believe they are a bunch of white supremacists, well then for heaven sake don`t attend their functions.  Don`t counterprotest.  Counterprotesting is a misnomer.  It should really be called "giving the alt-right free press."  The freedom of speech protestors and the counterprotesters are working together in a bizzare alliance to create a story out of what would otherwise be small beans.

 

Of course racism exists.  The KKK and Nazis get all the press, but I`d wager that it`s the everyday racism -- all the little racial assumptions that most people make -- that actually effects people`s lives.  Racism has become such a dirty word that nobody can admit to it or even look for it within themselves, and therefore nobody can change it.  You can`t change what you can`t talk about or be aware of. 

 

Here is an excerpt of the poem "You are in the dark, in the car"  by black woman poet, Claudia Rankine. I think it powerfully exemplifies everyday racism.

 

The new therapist specializes in trauma counseling. You have only ever spoken on the phone. Her house has a side gate that leads to a back entrance she uses for patients. You walk down a path bordered on both sides with deer grass and rosemary to the gate, which turns out to be locked.
 

At the front door the bell is a small round disc that you press firmly. When the door finally opens, the woman standing there yells, at the top of her lungs, Get away from my house. What are you doing in my yard?
 

It’s as if a wounded Doberman pinscher or a German shepherd has gained the power of speech. And though you back up a few steps, you manage to tell her you have an appointment. You have an appointment? she spits back. Then she pauses. Everything pauses. Oh, she says, followed by, oh, yes, that’s right. I am sorry.
 

I am so sorry, so, so sorry.

 

Claudia Rankine

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Hancock]

32 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

You're manipulated by the media. The Nazis are gone friend. 

 

 

 

Here because I'm finding what you say to be immeasurably naive. No disrespect but you are sounding like a complete ignorant person to me. Like you live in a bubble where your world is great and assume the rest of the world is that way.

 

A frog in a well cannot conceive of the ocean.

Moral: Some ignorant people know nothing aside from their own world.

 

9 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Of course racism exists.  The KKK and Nazis get all the press, but I`d wager that it`s the everyday racism -- all the little racial assumptions that most people make -- that actually effects people`s lives.  Racism has become such a dirty word that nobody can admit to it or even look for it within themselves, and therefore nobody can change it.  You can`t change what you can`t talk about or be aware of.

 

If you don`t like what the freedom of speech rally`s represent and believe they are a bunch of white supremacists, well then for heaven sake don`t attend their functions.  Don`t counterprotest.  Counterprotesting is a misnomer.  It should really be called "giving the alt-right free press."  The freedom of speech protestors and the counterprotesters are working together in a bizzare alliance to create a story out of what would otherwise be small beans.  

 

Here is an excerpt of the poem "You are in the dark, in the car"  by black woman poet, Claudia Rankine. I think it powerfully exemplifies everyday racism.

 

The new therapist specializes in trauma counseling. You have only ever spoken on the phone. Her house has a side gate that leads to a back entrance she uses for patients. You walk down a path bordered on both sides with deer grass and rosemary to the gate, which turns out to be locked.
 

At the front door the bell is a small round disc that you press firmly. When the door finally opens, the woman standing there yells, at the top of her lungs, Get away from my house. What are you doing in my yard?
 

It’s as if a wounded Doberman pinscher or a German shepherd has gained the power of speech. And though you back up a few steps, you manage to tell her you have an appointment. You have an appointment? she spits back. Then she pauses. Everything pauses. Oh, she says, followed by, oh, yes, that’s right. I am sorry.
 

I am so sorry, so, so sorry.

 

Claudia Rankine

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your kind of idealism is the worse there is, it completely denies the existence of the problem in hopes of creating a world without that problem. Like people who don't think of death, to comfort themselves.

 

Most people who suffer racism's spirit is broken so much they try to ignore it, the fight goes out of them and they just try to get along and let the every day racism slide.

 

But there's others who have spirit and internal strent, to say "No that's not right."

 

A person who tries to use one scenario of a persecuted race to justify the perpetuation of racism towards those individuals is just trying to ignore the obvious and avoid their feelings on the subject. I've seen it before, I see it in you now.

 

Truth is, justification of a white hate protest is morally wrong. You can lawyer it all you want to yourself, convince yourself that well maybe it's the antiprotestors fault for being in the wrong place so it's on them cause the Hate group got their permit to protest. Dude logic is there but the spirit, the heart, the moral good is long gone.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Hancock

[liminal_luke]

11 minutes ago, Hancock said:

 

 

 

Your post was very critical of my viewpoint, so it`s a little odd to me that you underscore it with this wonderful quote that`s pretty much exactly what I was trying to say.

Edited August 24, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Hancock]

2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Your post was very critical of my viewpoint, so it`s a little odd to me that you underscore it with this quote that`s pretty much exactly what I was trying to say.

Glad you distinguish that I'm not critical of you as a person.  On this forum people identify their views with themselves, it starts lots of trouble.

 

Your post says that exert is by a black woman, as to give credibility somehow to your statement. That's a form of racism, you've distinguished her because of her race and there y attempted to use race to make your point valid. I use personal experiences an haven't read one person do that here do that it's all idealistic or philosophical stuff but it lacks Soul.

It's why I was critical of your post. Nothing against you personally, you probably don't even consider what you did racist cause it wasn't intended with harm. Still it is what it is.

[liminal_luke]

That poem is about one person`s take on the experience of being black in America.  In that excerpt the second person narrator "you" is black, but there`s nothing in that excerpt to indicate that.  The poem is about race, but if I didn`t mention that it was written by a black poet it would make no sense.  It`s a poem that only makes sense if the reader understands the context...that it was written by a black poet about the black experience. 

 

I`m all for equality, believe me.  I think everyone should get a fair shake regardless of race, creed, age, gender -- you name it.  Perhaps in an ideal world we wouldn`t notice that Barack Obama is black or Hillary Clinton a woman.  But we do notice those things.  We notice and I think it has to be OK to say we notice.  Otherwise we`re just playing a game in order to try and occupy some illusory moral high ground.

 

There`s no hope of having an open public conversation about race, a conversation we desperately need to be having in the United States, if we`re constantly calling each other out as racist for mentioning someone`s race.  

Edited August 24, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Hancock]

7 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

That poem is about one person`s take on the experience of being black in America.  In that excerpt the second person narrator "you" is black, but there`s nothing in that excerpt to indicate that.  The poem is about race, but if I didn`t mention that it was written by a black poet it would make no sense.  It`s a poem that only makes sense if the reader understands the context...that it was written by a black poet about the black experience. 

 

I`m all for equality, believe me.  I think everyone should get a fair shake regardless of race, creed, age, gender -- you name it.  Perhaps in an ideal world we wouldn`t notice that Barack Obama is black or Hillary Clinton a woman.  But we do notice those things.  We notice and I think it has to be OK to say we notice.  Otherwise we`re just playing a game in order to try and occupy some illusory moral high ground.

 

There`s no hope of having an open public conversation about race, a conversation we desperately need to be having in the United States, if we`re constantly calling each other out as racist for mentioning someone`s race.  

That context your talking about is the very nature of racism. That division.

 

I get exactly what you are saying about being different than others in looks and cultural differences an genetic background. The issue is the behaviour of human kind towards each other regarding the issue of differences and genetic background.

 

On your comment about hope...

 

 

 

P.s. racist behavior doesn't make one racist, a racist is a person who deliberately treats others based on their opinion of that person or groups race. Good or bad. Distinguishing it, is the key to changing things because pointing things out helps us become aware of them.

 

Most white people I've come across if they realize racism consciously, don't consciously want to make the effort to alter their behaviour and generalizations of other cultures. They just treat "them" with kid gloves so as to not be offensive. As if being offensive is the worst sin you can do, the fact you treat someone differently cause their race or act uncomfortably around them is a constant reminder.

I was adopted by white people, proud of their Polish heritage. I was special, gifted, etc it's why they took interest in me. I learned racism by asking by having a crush on a girl and having her grandfather explain that we weren't supposed to mix. That it was against God and he even pointed out bible verses and made logical arguments. 

My adopted father found out and said we were to treat each other equally, and care about all human beings no matter where they come from or what they look like.

He told me although his parents were polish, he himself was adopted, as well as his other son, my brother. He never hired anyone that wasn't white and always had someone keep an eye on me, although I never stole things or misbehave. I was too busy trying to be liked by them because I loved them a lot.

His wife always was afraid of me and told me to talk proper english, spanking me til I would say things the "right way."

Even calling her mom caused her to flinch. When we went out she would introduce my brother as her son, then say she and her husband had adopted me. The truth of the matter is, racism is also in how we treat each other.

Because of her detached attitude from me, I didn't feel loved as a son, kind of somehow like I just was there and alien.

But we're on good terms, she sent a book a few weeks back. She just doesn't realize what she does or how it could be offensive. To her I'm the other son, somehow set apart.

That distinction is painful on lots levels. An I tell that story so you see how it's all thru America. How it's in everyday things.

They weren't racist deliberately their beliefs and actions were racist. I point them out so as to draw the line between racism and what is racist.

 

Some blAcks I've met are so beaten down by it there's an undercurrent of their spirit's desire to not be broken, that the ego takes any opportunity to gain the power it's robbed of.  That's how the cycle I see continues.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Hancock

[Brian]

Hancock, I told you when you PMd me that I would no longer interact with you on the forum, and I explained why.  You doubled-down in a follow-up PM to which I chose not to respond.

 

Now you choose to quote me, address me and comment on content from that PM conversation.  This post is, in part, to provide you fair notice that my voluntary policy of non-engagement is contingent upon your reciprocation.

 

In what I sincerely hope is closing, I offer a heart-felt recommendation -- please consider long-term psychoanalysis to help you set down this baggage and work through some deep-seated issues.

 

Please don't reply.

[Aetherous]

6 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

If you don`t like what the freedom of speech rally`s represent and believe they are a bunch of white supremacists, well then for heaven sake don`t attend their functions.  Don`t counterprotest.  Counterprotesting is a misnomer.  It should really be called "giving the alt-right free press."  The freedom of speech protestors and the counterprotesters are working together in a bizzare alliance to create a story out of what would otherwise be small beans.

 

Counterprotesting is protected speech...and I'd say, actually important.

What happened in Boston was actually pretty great. The left just needs to learn to be completely non-violent, and it will win this war.

[Hancock]

3 hours ago, Brian said:

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Hancock

[dawei]

2 hours ago, Aetherous said:

 

Counterprotesting is protected speech...and I'd say, actually important.

 

What happened in Boston was actually pretty great. The left just needs to learn to be completely non-violent, and it will win this war.

 

 

I'd say yes and no... the 'counter' part already defines it as against the original cause.  If that intention can be kept under control, then it will fare well... but when both sides have weaponized themselves, you can guess the outcome. 

[Brian]

12 hours ago, Hancock said:

Ill say it, those white groups seek to remind and dominate black Americans. To maintain a subordination of them and provoke them, by antagonizing..they also genuinely believe they are better and celebrate that. It's messed up.

 

The subconscious white racist almost always tries to trivialize and put down the black side. Most blacks try to live life peacefully but still run into racism daily, brushing it aside as how things are.

Yes restoring people of only Nepal genetic background is racist. That's racism, treatment of people based on background for good or bad.

 

 

What does the subconscious black racist try to do?

[Hancock]

5 minutes ago, Brian said:

What does the subconscious black racist try to do?

Didn't you want to steer clear of each other on the forums? So why ask me questions?

[Brian]

2 minutes ago, Hancock said:

Didn't you want to steer clear of each other on the forums? So why ask me questions?

You quoted me above.  I'm just asking a simple question related to your comment when you quoted me, Hancock.  You told us what you believe "the subconscious white racist" tries to do so I was curious what the subconscious black racist tries to do.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Brian

[Hancock]

26 minutes ago, Brian said:

You quoted me above.  I'm just asking a simple question related to your comment when you quoted me, Hancock.

could you post where you're saying i quoted you in relation to your question, to help give appropriate context so I can answer your question ?

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Hancock

[MooNiNite]

9 hours ago, Hancock said:

Here because I'm finding what you say to be immeasurably naive. No disrespect but you are sounding like a complete ignorant person to me. Like you live in a bubble where your world is great and assume the rest of the world is that way.

 

A frog in a well cannot conceive of the ocean.

Moral: Some ignorant people know nothing aside from their own world.

 

Bubble? You just responded to me with zero facts and some quote by Samuel L Jackson about the soul. After I told you the nazis are gone and your living in the past. 

Lets look at the population of the KKK group you keep mentioning.

 

"As of 2016, the Anti-Defamation League puts total Klan membership nationwide at around 3,000, while the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) puts it at 6,000 members total.^[19]"

 

 Going with the 6,000 figure.... that makes 6,000  out of 323,100,000 people.

 

You're talking about a movement that is 0.000019% of the population.

 

And then saying i live in my own bubble. LOL! 

 

[Brian]

LOL  This again???  You could simply look back at your own post in this thread in -- oh, say... The last day?

 

Since we know from experience that you are challenged in this regard, though, I'll post it here for you.  BTW, if you click the subject line in the linked post below, it takes you directly to the linked post:

EDIT: Last day? Heck! Last 12 hours.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Brian

[MooNiNite]

"those white groups seek to remind and dominate black Americans."

 

The white groups that represent less than .01% of Americans. 

 

Also Aethorus and Hancock are condemning only what they perceive as "negative" racism. Not realizing that the thousands of charities that only help people of a specific race are denying people of other races. 

[MooNiNite]

Nothing is more racist than the HIllary Clinton Charity that funneled 5.4 Billion from the Haitians. 

But of course, these guys are condemning a few thousand white supremacists for ruining America. 

[Hancock]

8 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

"those white groups seek to remind and dominate black Americans."

 

The white groups that represent less than .01% of Americans. 

 

Also Aethorus and Hancock are condemning only what they perceive as "negative" racism. Not realizing that the thousands of charities that only help people of a specific race are denying people of other races. 

I'm not condemning anyone.

 

I've talked bout racism thats negative and positive. An said both are equally distasteful.

 

Even a charity for one race over another race. Still a form of racism.

 

8 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

Nothing is more racist than the HIllary Clinton Charity that funneled 5.4 Billion from the Haitians. 

But of course, these guys are condemning a few thousand white supremacists for ruining America. 

Are you sticking up for people who outspokenly hate others? If so, why?