Energy sharing

[dwai]

52 minutes ago, cheya said:

Scott Meredith has an interesting way of describing what happens in fa jin, although I don't think he uses that label. He talks about how Ben Lo and others could move people without seeming to apply any real energy push, just a touch. What Meredith says (anybody who actually knows, please correct me if I am misstating!) is that he applies a tiny amount of energy which then acts as a trigger for the person's own compressed tension.  So it is like the detonater of a bomb... a tiny charge, which then sets off the explosion. The explosion is driven by the held tension in the receiver, not by the person moving him.   But it is not a simple thing! The person setting it off has to know how to find and target that tension in the person being tossed. Reading people's descriptions of being moved by Scott is great fun...

That's how transfer from my Master feels like. A touch. A slight flick of the palm.

 

As I spend more time training, I find that it is easier to do than it seems, we have to believe....REALLY BELIEVE! That's what my master said too. It is so easy that in our contrived thinking, we can't even imagine that it is possible

 

The way my teacher does it, you will move no matter what (unless you are empty enough that it goes through you). 99.999% of the world are not empty

 

 

[Starjumper]

26 minutes ago, allinone said:

one day there was a thunderstorm outside, and i actually felt tingles on the center area of palm. It kind of geared my desire to harness lighting.

also the weather is different before storm etc etc. Basically i wonder if there is a special feeling to it what unlocks a channel and knowledge.

 

It could be, for me when I am meditating a loud sudden noise will send a shock wave of this vibrating/tingling energy through my body.

[allinone]

Just now, Starjumper said:

 

It could be, for me when I am meditating a loud sudden noise will send a shock wave of this vibrating/tingling energy through my body.

 

that too. But the sensation in palm was similar to 10K volts wire strike me, when i go and touch that fire. But very miniscule.

Come to think about it, then it is also like static electricity strike.

[cheya]

19 minutes ago, dwai said:

 

 

The way my teacher does it, you will move no matter what (unless you are empty enough that it goes through you). 99.999% of the world are not empty

 

 

 

That's what Scott says, that, out of thousands he has touched hands with, only a mere few have not held significant tension, which is the hand hold/lever that allows the person to be moved.  This actually fits really well with the energy sharer's statement that the energy shared can hit obstructions in the person, and this trigger reactions... 

 

[cheya]

Anybody interested, there's a great discussion about this going on in chat right now!

 

Started about 9:40... may be petering out now... 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by cheya

[allinone]

28 minutes ago, dwai said:

That's how transfer from my Master feels like. A touch. A slight flick of the palm.

 

As I spend more time training, I find that it is easier to do than it seems, we have to believe....REALLY BELIEVE! That's what my master said too. It is so easy that in our contrived thinking, we can't even imagine that it is possible

 

The way my teacher does it, you will move no matter what (unless you are empty enough that it goes through you). 99.999% of the world are not empty

 

 

 

i wonder what channel or what the "believe" is? 'really´- it is cold intent. And 'believe' is a warm?

[dwai]

Just now, allinone said:

 

i wonder what channel or what the "believe" is? 'really´- it is cold intent. And 'believe' is a warm?

It means "don't think, don't try...know and do!"  

[Starjumper]

9 minutes ago, cheya said:

Anybody interested, there's a great discussion about this going on in chat right now!

 

Started about 9:40... may be petering out now... 

 

I don't see any 'chat' button.

[dwai]

46 minutes ago, cheya said:

So I'm wondering if transmission and energy sharing have something to do with this concept of triggering something the transmitter is targeting

 in the other person... but takes some skill in identifying it and applying the initial charge...

 

This would be with intention, not just broadcasting a frequency of peace, silence, or tranquility...

 

@Dwai, Master Liao talked about broadcasting in his book Nine Nights... you have anything to add in that respect?

Yes...there is a "broadcasting" when the Jin is "programmed" to do so. It's a feeling.

 

First the Jin has to be developed.

 

At a more basic level, if we consider 2-person practice (pushing hands, etc). If you want to make the person feel like floating (float jin), you have to evoke the feeling of floating in your own heart-mind. That will program your jin with the "float" information. When the recipient gets it, they will feel like they are being floated.

 

Similarly, when you make the "heavy/sinking" feeling in your heart-mind, the recipient will feel it.

 

When my Master teaches, he is constantly broadcasting certain knowledge (but it's more like a broad-spectrum range of information, as opposed to the specific float/sink/hard/soft/heavy/light that we might do in specific jin expressions). Those who are empty and receptive will pick this signal up. Others don't.

 

[allinone]

1 minute ago, dwai said:

It means "don't think, don't try...know and do!"  

 

hmm, in a dream i think its the only way for me to manifest something. If i know what i want to have then it never happen. So if i have in my mind a idea then someone has to make it happen to me. And if i use the other variant then i switch the reality where i have it already.

So i either go there where i have the thing i want. And the other variant is someone has to bring it to me.

 

 

[cheya]

dwai, doesn't Master Liao differentiate somehow between a general broadcast and then loading a specific message on that energy? (May have to go back to my dog-eared copy of the book here... do you recognize what I'm referring to?)

 

[dwai]

1 minute ago, cheya said:

dwai, doesn't Master Liao differentiate somehow between a general broadcast and then loading a specific message on that energy? (May have to go back to my dog-eared copy of the book here... do you recognize what I'm referring to?)

 

The way I understand it is that the broadcast happens when we are practicing. For instance, when I'm teaching/leading a class, the broadcast is happening from me, based on the level I'm at. When someone is "listening" and following me, they are tuning into my broadcast. It contains everything that I know but I'm not intending to send this out. It emits because of the meditation. 

 

When my teachers do this, it is more powerful because they are at a much much higher level of emptiness and attainment than me. 

 

Even when my taiji brothers and I practice, we take turns leading. And each one feels different because our "stories" are different. 

 

What Master Liao is saying is what my teacher does when he wants to send very specific energies to us. For instance, when we visited him a few weeks back, he shared with us (myself and @fabie) a very specific thing. It put us into a samadhi state when we were meditating. That "thing" stayed with us and informs us/induces in us, a greater level of emptiness.

 

This kind of stuff is hard to intellectualize though...

 

[cheya]

Thank you, Dwai!

That is very helpful!

 

[allinone]

does anyone else also believes in rocks? like we can put our thoughts in them?

basically like it could be used as a information carrier. Like a computer hard drive what hold information.

 

if to think its true. then what is the difference between regular thinking and thinking with intent target.

 

any thoughts in that front anyone?

[dawei]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Just to add I am not claiming to know the answers just posing the question hoping for others to respond

 

 

I generally agree with your position, it is not just about going from A to B... it is both more complex and simple. Complex in that breaking up the whole makes it complex when the simple thing is Oneness.   And I liked your point about it moving from less potential to more realized states.

 

I think that those who are more energetically connected to Oneness simply are able to be like a conduit to that Oneness; they are able to share a portion of the potential and that allows another to feel something more 'realized' in an energetic sense.   Some might call that A to B but if I were drawing overlapping sets, A & B would be inside the Oneness already.  If it were 3-D, then maybe A is simply closer to the center where the full effect can be felt; B is like on the surface and thus affected more by the separation of duality.  Duality has a way of dulling our connection till even that gives way.

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

what a nice thread! thanks Apech.

 

I'll try to add some two-cent pieces, just about how it feels for me. I read here talk of two things, the ' healing' thingy and the fajin. 

 

When one is doing healing on another person one can become aware of energy/chi flowing. Long have I thought that indeed that was what happens, energy going from A to B. But now I think, what you feel is not chi, it's just what the body experiences. It's useful too, those feelings, makes it ' graspable ' for the mind, makes intent easier maybe.

To me the idea that healing is ' giving' the right information rings true. And that the more developed someone is, that the clearer the message comes through ( not muddled with your own shit) sounds true too.

 

On the other hand, I think that it's not persons who can heal, but that healing persons are channels for that flow of information. Thus meaning that the stronger the healing potential of a healer, simple means the cleaner the channels and thus the emptier the mind.

 

I've experienced it as ' energy' descending through the crown and going out through my hands. But nowadays i think that to stay healthy the flow of chi rising from the earth through your body must be just as large as what descends through the crown.

 

That's, energetically seen, the reason that i have chronic fatigue syndrome, disbalance between heaven and earth. I've always been a healer on a totally subconscious level so to say. I was aware of what happened, but because my mind could not grasp it / even denied the possibility, as soon as it had happened i pushed the experience somewhere in the subconscious..

 

so, it seems that healing processes can occur without any training, without having build up err...personal energy, without ' filling up'  the lower dantien.

 

 

I think for fajin one needs to have personal energy/ awake lower dantien or some such.

and on the one workshop about it I attended it felt very different to me then my experiences with healing.

 

healing to me was err...being aware of someone suffering and feeling the need to assist ( feels like opening the heart) then the light entered my crown and flowed out of my hands. A modtly vertical process so to say

 

But this one little try on fajin err.... i felt 'something' in me going backward the harder I pushed ( forward). Can't tell it plainer. Very different feeling. But even though rootedness obviously plays a big part in it, it felt more like a horizontal process...

 

a well, just me rambling

[Brian]

We have come to understand that much of what happens with our bodies in terms of changes and developments comes about from energetic triggers which activate existing mechanisms and unlock previously inaccessible potentials.  This can range from molecular fingerprints which are like key sequences that control bindings and things like endocrine systems, to the way a virus "comes alive" when it is in proximity to its target/host cell.  The very structure, construction and operation of the DNA molecule itself is built around energy patterns -- encoded sequences of energetic frequencies which convey information and activate latent potentials.

 

It is quite beautiful and seems to be a remarkably pervasive operating principle.  As best I can tell, it is fundamental.

[Apech]

My feeling about healing is that it may be perceived as a flow of qi - by both the healer and the subject - and in some ways it doesn't much matter whether this is an actual flow or just a perception of such.  But in the end people heal themselves and healer is unlocking potentials in the subjects own body which are self healing.  In fact the illness probably arises through the blockage of natural healing mechanisms - so the healer is allowing the subject to heal themselves.  This seems to me the most satisfactory way of explaining things like reflexology where science cannot detect any connection between part of foot and the target part of the body or organ.   There doesn't need to be a mechanical connection or nerve pathway if the treatment is simply allowing the subject to unlock their own body's own healing processes somehow.

 

Anyway just a thought.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Apech

[Apech]

Thinking about this kind of thing a little more I remembered the idea that your being is like a kind of multilayer lens.  So you have a physical presence, an energetic level, thought level and beyond that intent or consciousness.  I think if you cultivate then you can naturally focus on layers above the usual engrossment in the physical and as you switch lens you perceive things differently.

 

I recall at certain times I would spontaneous do things or say things not quite knowing why but that they related to other people.  The first one I remember was once at my parents house I sat down at the dinner table and passed my sister a bowl of food - she was a bit flummoxed and said ‘how did you know I wanted that?’ - on another occasion I was at work at a meeting and again I sat down next to someone and said ‘how’s your mum?’ and the woman I asked went bright red and gurgled something because that very minute she was thinking about her mum who was ill but hadn’t told anyone.

 

I’m not suggesting this is any great shakes but just a kind of natural consequence of cultivating but suggests a strong connection between people which is going on all the time.

 

[Jeff]

25 minutes ago, Apech said:

My feeling about healing is that it may be perceived as a flow of qi - by both the healer and the subject - and in some ways it doesn't much matter whether this is an actual flow or just a perception of such.  But in the end people heal themselves and healer is unlocking potentials in the subjects own body which are self healing.  In fact the illness probably arises through the blockage of natural healing mechanisms - so the healer is allowing the subject to heal themselves.  This seems to me the most satisfactory way of explaining things like reflexology where science cannot detect any connection between part of foot and the target part of the body or organ.   There doesn't need to be a mechanical connection or nerve pathway if the treatment is simply allowing the subject to unlock their own body's own healing processes somehow.

 

Anyway just a thought.

 

 

So basically it is all simply psychosomatic? No such thing doctors doing anything?  Also, praying is all really just a big mental trick? No such thing as a Miracle?

[Apech]

29 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

So basically it is all simply psychosomatic? No such thing doctors doing anything?  Also, praying is all really just a big mental trick? No such thing as a Miracle?

 

 

I didn't say any of those things you are completely misreading me.

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, Apech said:

 

I didn't say any of those things you are completely misreading me.

 

Sorry, what did I misunderstand?  

 

You said...

 

1 hour ago, Apech said:

...  But in the end people heal themselves and healer is unlocking potentials in the subjects own body which are self healing.  

 

And...

 

1 hour ago, Apech said:

In fact the illness probably arises through the blockage of natural healing mechanisms - so the healer is allowing the subject to heal themselves.  

...

 

So what does that mean?  Does the healer change something in the person that they are healing in some way? Is there some sort of transmission, or not?

[Apech]

Just now, Jeff said:

 

Sorry, what did I misunderstand?  

 

You said...

 

 

And...

 

 

So what does that mean?  Does the healer change something in the person that they are healing in some way? Is there some sort of transmission, or not?

 

 

I don't know I was speculating.  Particularly about things like reflexology and theraputic massage.

[Michael Sternbach]

Well, there is no resonance without any energy transmission. What resonance does do is that it gets you better result with less effort.

 

Talking about "fajin pushing", timing seems crucial, so you may be dealing with a resonance phenomenon there too.

 

 

[C T]

some people think its great to get a transmission, they think oh they cleared up this and that channel, but here we are talking about the subtle body... the thing is, most of us are not able to 'see' whats happening at that subtle level, and those who take in offerings of energetic manipulation from others (who are perhaps fringe players and not connected to authentic lineages) will not be able to detect faulty manipulations/tors and thus unnecessarily exposing themselves to problems that usually only manifest at some future time. In our school these problems are usually referred to as psychic wind disorders.