Edward M Posted August 16, 2017 Does anyone else have the same problem as I do, that they cannot visualise/imagine very well with the eyes closed, and instead need to have them open as if they are actually looking at the imaginal object in front of them? I've a feeling its to do with mental noise amping up when the eyes close. It's my main way of understanding things, so its surprising i can't do it with eyes closed. Anyone else get this, or have any suggestion about how to remedy it??? maybe it doesn't need remedying, just got to be more aware of where my eyes are pointed, so others dont get wrong idea..... Cheers! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edward M Posted August 16, 2017 Just to clarify, its not seeing the object in front of them, but rather, the eyes merge with the heart and look into the imaginal world.... its not superimposing imaginal onto this world.. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted August 16, 2017 Hi Edward M. Your question reminds me of something I encountered recently that really surprised me. My wife, does not visualize... at all, like ever. It stunned me as one of the things I've sought in my practice is a break from the constant visualizations that can be very distracting. She sees nothing in dreams, she feels them. She has a very clear inner sense of how a place is in dreams, but unlike me, who sees a particular room and the color of the flowers and the furniture, she feels the room, has a sense of the room she is in, but does not see anything. She feels it. She experiences the room without visualizing it. When you dream about a place. Do you see it in detail? Or is it more of a sense, or feel of a place... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edward M Posted August 16, 2017 Hi Silent Thunder, yeah i dream in vision as well... its just when i'm awake that i have trouble seeing with eyes closed... just realised if i'm meditating with eyes closed and i do start seeing things, it usually means i'm going to enter the dream state and wake up with a jolt... weird! I bet your wife has some unique perspectives on the world.. interesting conversations! Peace 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EmeraldHead Posted August 16, 2017 I heard of such cases before. It's natural from what I know. Meaning the "mental noise amping..." is more like a natural wiring you've grown into, from the way you use your mind/brain in the subtle sense. Concentration training will increase both eyes open&closed ability for you. I've been doing a lot of trataka recently on a candle flame without blinking, but starring throughout. It wires me towards the visual sense a lot and in a way, for the same wiring that you are experiencing. Although, my my eyes close internal is increasing because of my cultivation and concentration progress. I would say get healthier, nothing to worry about. Do some concentration training, 45min daily hard samatha/concentration practice for a couple months or less, you will be able to visualise conveniently well with eyes closed. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edward M Posted August 16, 2017 Excellent, cheers Arramu, that is really helpful. Trataka is brilliant, I use a dot on the wall, rather than a candle... smoke alarm outside my room door.. Ive just had an insight., when eyes are open, usually my mouth hangs open as well, i drop all sense of self.,, probably its when eyes are closed, its much harder to drop that sense of self... which of course means your advice is gonna come in very handy! thanks mate! Peace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EmeraldHead Posted August 16, 2017 Sure. Do sungazing (brahmacharya and earthing too to boost chi if you can) and Bardons exercises from the mental section of step1 in his book/system - IIH. Theres 4 exercise in Step 1, 2nd and 3rd being a build up on each other and the goal of the 3 separate activities being mental control, with some level of concentration being gained pasively. Anyway, "mental control (-s)" is the key. Those might help as well, you can start with something like minimum of 2 sessions of 15min each daily of observation of thoughts, or more, while doing trataka as well on the side. Shouldn't be bad. Yes this approach is similar to Frater Veos who is very biased towards yoga/hinduism and he's 'exposed' but this suggested practice doesn't come from him but from me from experience. You can also train closed eye visualisation if you will. People usually start with a coloured triangle. Poiting upside down seems easier for me. And considering that when strong or visualisations appear spontaneously in meditation a lack of/upwards spike in brainwaves can be measured, perhaps visualisation in general has something to do with it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edward M Posted August 16, 2017 Thanks, i'll factor some of that in at some point... ive got quite a lot on my plate at the moment... ive never heard of the people you mention, but i'll look them up at some point, many thanks! Cheers, thanks again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted August 17, 2017 In the Silva method of visualization that I have been trained in, being able to "go to level" and visualize with open eyes is actually considered a more advanced approach. Few adults can stay in an alpha state (i.e., lowered brain wave frequency) with their eyes open without special training. However, based on your description, I think you may be doing just that, and I don't see why this should be a problem (no pun intended...). While having this skill is highly advantageous under certain circumstances, I still find I can go to deeper levels with my eyes closed, so I generally prefer doing that when I have the option, but your mileage may vary. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted August 17, 2017 Several things you might try: With eyes closed - imagine something you very very much like and know well - a car, desert, a place or dog or cat....... It is often easy to see these at least for a glimpse if not a long held look. count from 100-0 and from 0-100 simultaneously. It is typically at some point easier to see the numbers paired than to try to hold them and flip each of them. when trying to see attempt to move the center from which you look - back a bit - it should be slightly back of center rather than forward near the brow - particularly true if you tend to get headaches or undue pressure. This is a better center for your attention during meditation and generally all consciousness from the head area. Since you appear to tend to veer off into trance when you see - this indicated a somewhat strained position to far forward in the head - this illicits considerable anxiousness and excites kundalini and adrenals in an very light but unwelcome way.. If you experience presure it is also because you are creating tension within the tension that already exists in that forward area where the analyzer is active (looks like popcorn popping). Back of center should help. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edward M Posted August 17, 2017 Thanks Michael, I think its because with eyes open one is still aware on some level of potential danger, whereas with the eyes closed, that sense is shut off. Suppose it depends on the life one has lived... Thanks Spotless, That second one sounds difficult, but worth practicing... briefly tried the taking a step back method you describe, that has an interesting effect, it all seemed to go cuboid, if that makes sense, the inner place seemed like a cuboid Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, about position within the head and anxiousness, that is really extremely helpful, thanks!! I don't know if kundalini is awake in me or not, but i did see a diagram in a book that showed an incorrect path and when i tried making that pathway correct to the other diagram, it was the same as what you are describing, and took pressure of the heart and eased this jittery anxiety im prone to. Explains a lot! Thanks everyone for your input and help Peace 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roger Posted August 17, 2017 On August 16, 2017 at 6:28 AM, Edward M said: Does anyone else have the same problem as I do, that they cannot visualise/imagine very well with the eyes closed, and instead need to have them open as if they are actually looking at the imaginal object in front of them? I've a feeling its to do with mental noise amping up when the eyes close. It's my main way of understanding things, so its surprising i can't do it with eyes closed. Anyone else get this, or have any suggestion about how to remedy it??? maybe it doesn't need remedying, just got to be more aware of where my eyes are pointed, so others dont get wrong idea..... Cheers! I've experienced the kind of problem you're talking about. It might be helpful to let go of the sense of failure, of trying, and of conflict, and just do the exercise, and know that whatever your performance is, that's good enough. In other words, don't worry about doing it 'right', and abandon the notion of conflict - do the practice, and don't be concerned with succeeding or failing at it. You'll probably get better at it if you use this approach. There was a time when I was having difficulty pronouncing (mentally) my mantra. I decided I just wouldn't make a problem out of it, and I'd just do the meditation, and let whatever happened happen, and the problem was quickly resolved. Try to not see it as a problem. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edward M Posted August 17, 2017 Thanks Roger! Peace 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
