Pillars of Bliss

[Mal]

The funniest thing about all of this is the people DOING Kunlun don't care.

 

They like the practice and are happy with that.

 

But I'm glad that people are concerned for our wealfare too.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Thats right if you are happy with your practice then words dont mean anything, but there are many cultivators that have been around for a long time such as myself and i guess starjumper, Lin and others that dont always agree with the new in thing so to speak.

 

I myself will visit Max still and be very respectful just incase there is 1% he is the real deal! I hold no grudges im happy to meet advance cultivators in my short life, so its all good. Even 1% i still like to see what he has to offer people this is what i do.

 

Holding a ball is found in many systems of Hei Gung, chi kung, nei kung there are systems such as one i practice that is based on it with many variations. Shaking comes in the beginning cause energy needs to find a path and when it opens it will all subside to mini vibration.

 

I like the fact that star jumper is speaking his mind in ways i was when i first came here and saw all the threads. Each to there own!

 

WYG

[bindo]

starjumper,

while everyone should feel free to express their opinion, and hopefully it's an informed opinion, I wonder why you would come here to dump all this negative energy on the forum? Do you not have any respect for your own energy? not to mention everyone else's. I would think in your 30 yrs of internal arts training you would have a little more respect for where you put your energy and what you do with it.

 

Does this type of behavior improve your practice somehow? Do you think it doesn't affect your practice? Will it help you reach the "mountain top" faster?

 

I just wonder what people are thinking sometimes!

[Starjumper]

You used some pretty strong words to express yourself..calling Max a liar? I would have to really, really,really get to know someone before using that sort of strong language over a public forum.

 

I pointed out the lies in a previous post so liar fits. Also, I saw a sales video of his and he made it sound like a really high power secret practice which he made a lot of exalted claims for. It was a very good sales pitch, but it was a lie and I'll explain why later in this post. I was interested and the more I looked into it the more my bullshit alarm went off, as it has for other people who have checked him out as well.

 

I think there is something to the simplicity of just going deeply with 2 practices rather than hundreds of different techniques. I am not going to say one way is better then another.

 

The point is, what he is teaching is two relatively mild exercises that have been separated out from a system. I have a serious problem with him calling it nei kung, which is very misleading.

 

Well, we have gotten alot of positive feedback for kunlun I guess someone like Starjumper with a clearly anti-Kunlun(or Max) position adds to the conversations here.

 

These exercises are OK and they can be jazzy for beginners but they won't do much for a more energized practitioner. Leg shaking is a way of generating chi and for people who have never experienced a lot of chi it can be impresive. But why doesn't he just tell people to shake right off the bat instead of beating around the bush? Sounds fishy to me. I shake my legs all the time, even now while I'm typing I'm shaking my legs, you can do that too, you don't have to make some big bullshit deal out of it nor do you need to hold the hand posture he calls for. When someone has more chi flowing through wimpy channels then it can cause spontaneous chi kung, either a random chi kung dance or spontaneous postures or mudras. My teacher or I can make people do that by shinning hands on them with the terrible palm energy that Max says is so evil =) He's such a bullshitter. After the channels are 'burned' open to allow more flow then the added energy from shaking will not cause spontaneous movement. So while it can seem thrilling for a beginner it's sort of a big yawn for someone who already has strong energy.

 

Another thing about the arm posture. From the sound of it it appears that the instruction is to hold one hand only up, that is BS. He just wants to make you do something difficult to make it seem like a big deal. What you do when your shoulder starts to hurt too much is you simply turn the 'ball' over and hold it with the other hand up. Also note, even though the elbow is up the shoulder should be down, the shoulder will creep up abd that will cause more pain tension.

 

What is even better than holding the ball with hands vertically is to hold the ball with the hands to each side like you are holding a big ball against your lower tan tien. The hand position he calls for is not a powerful position.

 

Did this guy actually say his teacher could beat up my teacher?

 

Jesus Christ, what are we, ten?

 

 

Not unless you are Max. I said my teacher could beat up Max's teacher (which is no doubt a fact) and then I had the little smiley face =) in case you missed it. I was just playing around at being ten, so relax.

 

starjumper,

while everyone should feel free to express their opinion, and hopefully it's an informed opinion, I wonder why you would come here to dump all this negative energy on the forum? Do you not have any respect for your own energy? not to mention everyone else's. I would think in your 30 yrs of internal arts training you would have a little more respect for where you put your energy and what you do with it.

 

Does this type of behavior improve your practice somehow? Do you think it doesn't affect your practice? Will it help you reach the "mountain top" faster?

 

I just wonder what people are thinking sometimes!

 

I was thinking I want to improve everyones energy and my own too by helping them not get suckered by a bullshitter. I hope that helps. Besides I've been to my mountaintop already, I have no where to get, but yes, in the final analysis, I shouldn't bother. Suckers are born every day and nothing will change that. Hopefully I saved a couple anyway.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Guest winpro07]

Now you're on killing? I have met no masters who would ever condone killing. I have met no master capable of any assumption. Masters, nor even a very good teacher acts out in these ways. You have shamed your self

 

If people are going ga ga over that then it really is a sad situation. No wonder Max doesn't want real Nei Kung artists coming to his class, they'd feel like killing him for his lying cheating ways. No wonder lil Max is afraid of palm energy LOL.

 

So here we have some Bozo hyping some minor little practice and making a lot of money off of it. Now I'm jealous.

 

 

 

Sure it will, if you are very suggestible, but by then he has your money, so it's all good, does he give money back guarantees? This is another ten cent exercise, and it isn't nearly as good as the first one.

 

[Cameron]

I would study again and again and again and again with Max over you or your teacher from your dumping on here.

 

I don't think anything you have said about Max is even slighly based in truth, and is a mere unbalanced ego projection of yours.

 

I don't think I have ever heard Max say palm energy you speak of is evil, so that's just another projection. Also, what you are saying about bouncing as nothing special I think is different than what people are developing with their Kunlun practice(It's not forced in any way but spontaneous movements..the bouncing and hand movements happen naturally).

 

What would interest me is a diologue between your teacher and Max or other high level Masters. But we don't get that. We get students of the Taoist tradition being disrespectful of other schools.

 

See my thread about this subject for an attempt at taking an honest look at this issue if your interested.

 

Cameron

[Starjumper]

I don't think I have ever heard Max say palm energy you speak of is evil, so that's just another projection.

 

It could be another projection bt I got it from here

 

From his site:

"........building of chi in the lower dan tien and projecting it from the palm. You can really mess up someone's nervous system that way and damage their internal organs. .... If he sees this kind of desire in you, he will teach you nothing."

 

Projecting chi from the palm is usually a healing technique.

 

Here's more:

 

"Many people are interested in this energy being used on people who are not open to it. This is not possible with Kunlun because this process involves matching the magnetic body of the people involved."

 

That is BS because if you have chi you can use it on someone whether they want you to or not.

 

I would study again and again and again and again with Max over you or your teacher from your dumping on here.

 

Hey that's great. Maybe if you knew my teacher was Bruce Lee's primary kung fu teacher you might change your mind, (not the guy in Hong Kong) Bruce Lee knew his shit, luckily for him he could prove it by beating people up. It's a little tougher for me.

 

I think it's fantastic you don't want to come and see me, that's great, glad I could weed out another one. My teacher rejected almost all applicants and I'm not looking too hard for students either. Go see Max, give him your money, be happy.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Cameron]

You are completely using those statements out of context.

 

I am pretty sure he was referring to not teaching people who he saw would use whatever power/palm to hurt others. I don't think he said the knowledge or skill was inhernetly "evil".

 

Max does something called Tibetan Palm. He demonstrated it on Kan the first time I met him.

 

So again, it's just out of context and your rushing to judgment before you get the whole reality.

 

Mantra can say more if he wants if you want to discuss it with him further.

[Starjumper]

See my thread about this subject for an attempt at taking an honest look at this issue if your interested.

 

Yes I saw that but it's not high priority. No doubt my students and people in general think I'm quite a sweety pie, but there has always been disagreement among various schools. Normally masters are polite to each other but they will not tolerate fakes and can be quite abusive to them. The internet is quite conducive to yang interactions as well.

 

You are completely using those statements out of context.

 

I am pretty sure he was referring to not teaching people who he saw would use whatever power/palm to hurt others. I don't think he said the knowledge or skill was inhernetly "evil".

 

After rereading the section on that page I think I will concede that one to you and guess I took it the wrong way, it wasn't stated wellby him and was a little ambiguous. I must say that after reading the other BS I was in the wrong frame of mind.

 

Sorry about the spelling. I do Tong Long so know of White Eyebrow.

 

Well your spelling was close. Pei Mei is often written as Pai Mei, so maybe your Pia Mei was just a typo.

 

I've heard of Tong Long but afraid I don't know what it is.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Cameron]

 

 

I think it's fantastic you don't want to come and see me, that's great, glad I could weed out another one. My teacher rejected almost all applicants and I'm not looking too hard for students either. Go see Max, give him your money, be happy.

 

 

Sounds good. I am glad we were able to clear up that I have no interest in studying with you(or your teacher) and you also have no interest in teaching me(and your teacher rejects almost all applicants).

[Starjumper]

Sounds good. I am glad we were able to clear up that I have no interest in studying with you(or your teacher) and you also have no interest in teaching me(and your teacher rejects almost all applicants).

 

No problem, I'm really glad that you are glad that we were able to clear that up too. Have fun with the used car salesman's beginner weenie practice, may it take you far. Or at least as far as possible.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Cameron]

Used car salesman weenie. LOL.

 

That's great. I am glad we got to have this enlightened conversation.

 

I'll take the used car salesman weenie over a student of a path of apparently tremendous arrogance.

 

btw thanks for sharing so much as to what you actually practice. The out of the blue, blatant dissing of a practice and teacher many people here have benifitted from checking out along with your just sharing so much with us about your practice and your teacher who rejects most applicants is really making the world a better place I am sure.

 

 

Though if he really was Bruce Lee's teacher as you say I suppose that is pretty cool

[Starjumper]

Well said.

 

Starjumper,

 

You might use TTB's search on "kunlun" and scan a few of the threads that pop up. That might give you an idea of what we've already been through * whew! * on this.

 

btw, your avatar is a hoot.

 

Trunk

 

Hey thanks, Trunk, I did the search but the only thread that came up is the Wild Goose one,

 

 

Used car salesman weenie. LOL.

 

That's great. I am glad we got to have this enlightened conversation.

 

I'll take the used car salesman weenie over a student of a path of apparently tremendous arrogance.

 

btw thanks for sharing so much as to what you actually practice. The out of the blue, blatant dissing of a practice and teacher many people here have benifitted from checking out along with your just sharing so much with us about your practice and your teacher who rejects most applicants is really making the world a better place I am sure.

Though if he really was Bruce Lee's teacher as you say I suppose that is pretty cool

 

 

Yes, he is 95 now, he is a very amazing person, and extremely powerful with chi, and kind too, at least to strangers =) He does have very judgemental and bad things to say about some types of practices and teachers too.

 

Also, I shared almost nothing of my practice.

 

I said that beginners could benefit from Max's exercises, so we agree on something, good.

 

Many of the most advanced masters had very few students. The most powerful chi kung master in China has only one..

Edited January 10, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Cameron]

Try Lama Dorje.

 

Hope that is helpful

[Starjumper]

Try Lama Dorje.

 

Hope that is helpful

 

Thanks, I tried it but - Lama Dorje: "There are no topics to show for those search parameters"

Edited January 10, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Cameron]

Wierd. I just tried it and tons of threads came up.

[Ian]

It's interesting, what makes people say what they say.

 

I've come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that people are more likely to make negative comments when something is not right in their own world. In my own case I'm uncomfortably aware that I'm more likely to criticise other people's practices when I'm in a stage of uncertainty about my own.

 

I have certain doubts about Kunlun. But I've pretty much managed to keep my gob shut, because things are going ok with me, I'm not recruiting for anything else, and I'm aware that I haven't experienced a Kunlun transmission, nor asked the questions which would address those doubts.

 

I've no doubt that Starjumper has studied well and seriously for long time and knows a great deal. But the manner of his input on this thread, coupled with the fact that he mentions, as if in passing, that he teaches, where he teaches and how long one might need to study with him, gives the impression that his major issues here are that he wants students, and is jealous of Max getting so much attention.

 

Let me be clear: I'm not asserting that this is the case. But it may be useful to him to know that that is the impression given, at least to me.

[Mantra68]

No problem, I'm really glad that you are glad that we were able to clear that up too. Have fun with the used car salesman's beginner weenie practice, may it take you far. Or at least as far as possible.

What you see as "shlock" is really just a very understandable failure on your part to grasp the true essence of what this practice can do.

 

Our simple "stupid" method is actually a very effective way to align your mental, physical, and spiritual bodies, leading to the experience of divine harmony that extends into the void, or Tao.

 

What we refer to as Kunlun is actually just another name for divine mind. What that means is that there is an energy you can access that is not chi, but more like divine will. As you develop in your practice, you can access, project and direct this energy to others to help them open up or heal.

 

You raise your own vibrational rate or, more correctly, you match the divine harmonic energy that is inherent in all of us and then apply it to others.

 

This is our nei gung.: tapping the zero-point energy in the body.

 

But there is an additional component to this simple form that is not readily seen and appreciated, but is the key to getting the most out of Kunlun: the transfer.

 

The knowledge and ability to awaken your dormant potential is transferred to you from the teacher directly, as it has been for hundreds of years. It's like planting a seed. Practicing the Kunlun method then cultivates this seed very quickly to reveal its fruit. The transfer not only opens you to the divine, it also connects you directly with the lineage of those who have mastered these arts before you and with those who brought it to this realm. These masters then work with you to assist your evolution. That is why you read so many testimonials of people having powerful experiences. There is a lot behind it all.

 

Now, I don't know if that sounded like a bunch of New Age drivel to you or what , but if you had really gotten somewhere with your own practice of thirty some years, you would know exactly what I was talking about and be able to elaborate on the process, but at this point I really don't think you can.

 

For example:

The shaking in our method is not intentional. The shaking is a result of the practitioner letting go and allowing the body's own reset process to perform it's duty of realignment and balance. You don't consciously move your legs. You misunderstood step one of the Kunlun process and I don't say that to be "in your face" about it, it's just to illustrate that you don't actually understand.

 

That's OK because I know what this stuff looks like from the outside, it is crazy, but because it is clear that you don't have much experience in these realms it would be better for you to take a step back from your wealth of knowledge to see that somehow you have missed something along the way: the key to unlocking your own mystery.

 

Does your teacher have this key? If you believe he does, then why has he held it back from you?

 

On top of misunderstanding the practice, nothing you've said about Max is true. He is in fact very knowledgeable and experienced in many areas and on many levels. Everyone here who has actually met him and then read your posts can see that you obviously don't know who you are talking about.

 

So, I think the best way to describe your response to our school is, "loud confusion."

 

There are many people here who are far beyond your scope of experience. You should respect others more and accept the possibility that you might not actually know everything. I know I sure don't.

 

Once you get past that mindset, you might start to see how amazing you really are.

 

Also, your machiavellian attempts to divide people into battling groups rather than keep minds open and neutral here, is really not good for the forum or the world. Actually, it is one of our biggest problems here on Earth: the illusion of separation.

 

We're all just waves on the ocean. Ultimately, our illusory self returns to the whole from which it was never truly separate.

 

Learning from direct experience with the Tao is very fun and VERY humbling. It definitely makes you a nicer person.

 

Good luck with your deal.

[sean]

Jumping into this topic way late.

 

Starjumper, please (re)read the insult policy for The Tao Bums. You can be "yang" in your opinions but stop resorting to name calling immediately.

 

WYG, you've been relatively behaved lately as far as I've seen but I have to say that I think it's rather disrespectful that you posted your own skewed out of context version of Kunlun posture from the book here.

 

[/admin]

 

What is the quality of our energy when we feel self-righteously compelled to tear someone else down?

 

I think everyone has hot spots, certain issues, people, places that act like instant buttons for angry outbursts, insults, sarcasm, rebellious energy, etc. even violence.

 

Masters and students alike. We can't always model appropriateness from our teachers, unfortunately. Spiritual clarity does not instantly confer the ability to fly an airplane, I do not assume it immediately transfers emotional maturity.

 

Personally, I find myself activated like this when I feel that there is a dangerous, manipulative trap hidden behind a person or even within an idea --- yet somehow this person or idea has gained a kind of blinding hold over others, and they are losing or have lost their own way out. A simple example are cults that brainwash people to think unquestioningly within a single perspective. This stuff can really get under my skin and I just feel this compulsion to lash out against the leader(s) and warn others.

 

And perhaps rightly so. Likely there is a useful message within my contempt.

 

Oddly I find that the more powerless I feel to create positive change, the more my response will resemble that of a snarky teenager. "Ughh.. that Huckabee guy is a pathetic dumbass, how can you stand him?" Whereas if I really felt that I had the ear of open minded students or to the leader himself, I would communicate my opinions much more constructively. "Mike, I understand you are passionate about your personal beliefs, but don't you think it's a bit dangerous to bring a fundamentalist religious view into American politics?".

 

In my experience, this forum is filled with really bright people. Perhaps most of us are complete beginners, still I don't find that the majority of us, including those that are being drawn deeply into Kunlun, are naive or especially susceptible to being brainwashed into thinking something just because a teacher says it is so. Our personal experience reigns. On top of that Max (Lama Dorje) is not an inaccessibly remote teacher on a pedestal somewhere. Mantra68, one of his top students is right here on the forum with us and many of our critiques of Max's teaching style I believe have made it directly to Max and been used to effectively alter his presentation. I say this to suggest that there is good reason (besides forum policy) to take the time to communicate any misgivings you may have of him in a constructive manner, as it's quite possible he will hear your feedback and consider it with an open mind.

 

On another note, I don't see what is so unrealistic about the fact that a few simple postures held with the right intention and particularly within the context of a transmission of lineage energy could be enough to lead a student to clarity. Many Buddhist schools have only a single posture. Some Advaita-Vedanta schools do not teach a single posture. Meditation is not a stance.

 

 

Best,

Sean

[Aspirin]

---

Edited June 24, 2016 by Aspirin

[Mal]

I've heard of Tong Long but afraid I don't know what it is.

 

Wu Zu Quan or Go Cho Kune (Five Ancestors Boxing)

Yong Chun Quan (Wing Chun)

Fujian Bai He Quan (Fujian White Crane Boxing)

Bak Mei (White Eyebrow)

Lung Ying (Dragon boxing)

Tong long (Southern Praying Mantis)

 

(I hate spelling in englis let alone chinese )

 

All pretty much the same (that one might get me some fighting practice )

 

although I should qualify that I have only personally seen Wing Chun and Fujian White Crane.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Sean,

 

Yes, ive been very quiet and respectful and still am i like this forum alot and you give everyone a fair go!

 

The posture i believe if one can look back through all the threads will see that the level 1 has been discussed in full detail. The heels raised, what hands should and shouldnt be on top, different mudras added, hands in lap etc.

 

So i thought as a non Kunlun practitioner and to share some light on the matter to the new guy (starjumper) that he can understand what is taught so he can express his own views.

 

There is nothing new about what is taught in kunlun just good timing and good marketing at the right time!

 

 

His book is on visualization, letting go, breath retention, more visualization all these are found in Nei Kung so nothing new to really discuss. IMHO!

 

Thanks

WYG

[thelerner]

True, WYG, but hey, very knowledgeable, people teach -sit down, shut up, quiet the mind, repeat daily for 40 to 50 years. Thats really not a bad system. This kunlun stuff throws in a hand position and raised ankles. An improvement? Maybe, not a bad thing to try if it suits your taste. Simple can be really really good. Sometimes simple is all you need.

 

For me the proof is in the pudding. Kunlun seems to be working nicely for many people here. When people like Trunk Mal Win07, who've been around and whose opinion I trust say good things, I listen.

 

I went to a Kunlun seminar. I didn't find Max or his people were trying to sell me anything. There effect on energy sensitive people was intense though. For me the seminar was nice, learned some stuff and I'll be dedicated to it for 6 months and re-evaluate.

 

I don't think there's a need to save anyone from Kunlun. Its a real simple system. There's no danger or cult involved that I can see. It seems those most pupu ing it, suffer from BestItis. Their system is best, others are a waste of time. Again, I've been reading some about relatively fast awesome results from Kunlun, it could possibly be better then their system, I don't know.

 

I did notice in Starjumpers site it listed Physical Bliss available for dedicated student of 4 or 5 years and Mental Bliss being attainable by 18-19 year veterans. From what people have been reporting here, they're hitting those bliss levels after a few months of Kunlun. Certainly not everyone, definately not me, but its intriguing. There is more to life and cultivation then bliss. But a little bliss goes a long way and makes a cold world a warmer place.

 

If its a false path I think we'll see it, through our own experience and those of others trying it out, not through proclamations of self proclaimed experts we don't know jack about. I hope they stay around and share, I'm sure we could learn a lot from them, but don't expect us to kowtow or highly respect your opinions until we know you.

 

I do agree with Lins continual stress that if virtue and morality aren't taught and kept in mind during cultivation, you're on a path without heart. Mantra implies its there, because its at the core which Kunlun brings out. Hmnn, I'll see. He's shown himself to be very balanced both in person and in his posts here.

 

 

Michael

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Hey Micheal,

 

Thanks i know what you mean, i dont think its a bad practice persa but i think there is a few things that arent been told as TRUTH. But as long as you are all happy with the practice that is all that matters really!

 

I have alot to practice myself and i am very happy with what i have, Kunlun level 1 without the heels raised is just one hand posture in my system. Although we do heels off the ground whilst standing in meditation which gets a tremendously alot of heat and vibration and this helps your light skills, springy leg tendon power that is part and parcel of our martial and health side. I dont doubt that Kunlun practice gets you to what it says i just know a few things i wont talk about online or get into another sh!t slinging match about MAX or his training past or systems. I watched his clips he comes of as a guy with alot of information and seems to be very nice and i will love to see him when he comes to Oz because inside of me im hoping he is what he says he is and this is enough for me to meet a person that says what he can do on his website. If he this i want to meet such a person in this short life i will live!

 

Have you tried full lotus with the ball posture rather then heels raised?

 

Mantra is a respectable follower and student and does share his side of the information he understands of Kunlun and Max. I wish him the best with that!

 

I would be interested in how many have reached Levitation from level 1 or how long it takes to achieve this?

 

WYG

[Cameron]

I talked to Max's student Richard on the phone today and he says he had no cartilidge in his hips. He mentioned somewhere else his hips were bone on bone. He said after learning and practicing Kunlun the cartilidge in his hips grew back. Mantra said in the Max radio interview he hasn't gotten sick once since meeting Max.

 

Taoist elitists overblown ego's aside, I don't see how you can hear those things and not think this practice is a very positive thing that can really help people.

 

But I do respect the opinions of alot of you guys here so will be interested in getting feedback from others doing the practice this year.