faith in humanity

[moraldilemma]

Man, sometimes I don't see the point anymore. What's the point of helping people if they don't want to help themselves? I see humanity going in a downward spiral. People don't care about the environment- the planet they depend on. All people care about is entertainment and collecting crap they don't need. And having more kids. It's so obvious that overpopulation is becoming a huge problem yet everyone still wants to keep reproducing.

 

I feel I'm supposed to be a healer and a teacher. I want to teach about the Dao. But will anyone listen? I thought about becoming a Zen priest, but I don't know if I can take vows to be compassionate if humanity keeps being so self-destructive. Maybe it's because I'm in the US and I'm surrounded by "lol what war are we gonna start next omg." But occasionally I feel like war is a good thing if only to help control the ridiculous population explosion. I don't know, maybe I'll sell all my stuff and go live in the woods.

 

Anyway, I don't know if this is the right place to post this. I'm not trying to vent only, so it's not exactly a journal. I would like some opinionated discussion on this.

[Marblehead]

I hear what you are saying.  Sometimes we just need to do what we need to do (what is in our heart) and then let it go.

 

[Gerard]

Maybe this IS IT!

 

In that case there is nothing the minority can do. Life here will move on elsewhere since the Tao is infinite.

 

Until then keep cultivating and be a good person.

 

Good luck!

[Aegwynn]

Align thyself with likeminded individuals. Dwell in the forest for a weekend or even a week, indeed, this is an excellent idea, the woods offer silence for contemplation and evaluation. Leave behind the despicability my bruddah. I did the same 1 month ago to now return as a mighty lion of the soaring steppes, capable of weaving a thin, red, intricate line through humanity's circus

[Owledge]

What should also be putting you off is all the artificial or overblown fear, worries and problems that people are being convinced of in order to incite them and feel hatred against each other. The crap is getting through to you, and if you can't change anyone else, at least keep your own house clean. Always a good start to focus on a pure center. Disconnect those yucky entanglements that suck energy out of you. They speak through you. You cannot be yourself with them.

 

BTW I don't think you can teach about the Dao in a meaningful way without being with Dao. As you will know, the Dao that can be talked about just isn't the real deal, heh. You would only be teaching anger/contempt, the source that motivates you, and thus feed that.

EDIT: Teach the Dao, not about the Dao.

 

Maybe this helps you:

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Owledge

[Ad_B]

My two-pence-worth.

 

Probably, everyone born of a helpful and enquiring nature has been there and done (not done) that. Maybe there's a special hall in an after-life filled with disappointed philosophers and frustrated healers-of-the-human-condition.

 

Quote

Man, sometimes I don't see the point anymore. What's the point of helping people if they don't want to help themselves?

 

Once upon a time in my youth, I felt an urge to go to church despite not being of that ilk and had never been before.

 

The vicar delivered a sermon on the subject of brutality and since I was evidently the most brutal person there it stung a bit and I really wanted to punch him on the nose. It stung for a long time until I realised that actually, I liked my crapulence and yes, I was brutal despite thinking myself reasonable and balanced.

 

Perhaps people don't want to know and when they do they'll seek and find (when the student is ready to learn a teacher will appear...sort of thing)

 

Quote

 

I see humanity going in a downward spiral. People don't care about the environment- the planet they depend on. All people care about is entertainment and collecting crap they don't need. And having more kids. It's so obvious that overpopulation is becoming a huge problem yet everyone still wants to keep reproducing.

 

 

Re: the above.

Please refer to every historical philosopher from the Torah through the Greeks, Romans, every culture at every time...thats what they all say.

 

Quote

I feel I'm supposed to be a healer and a teacher. I want to teach about the Dao. But will anyone listen? I thought about becoming a Zen priest, but I don't know if I can take vows to be compassionate if humanity keeps being so self-destructive.

 

Is that a bit 'red-flaggy'?

 

The blind leading the blind?

 

Forgive me, I don't know what you know, maybe you know, what do I know?

 

Maybe just be kind. Firstly to oneself and secondly to everyone and everything else. Maybe just be kind for its own sake and not for acclaim or recompense.

 

I don't know.

 

Quote

Maybe it's because I'm in the US and I'm surrounded by "lol what war are we gonna start next omg." But occasionally I feel like war is a good thing if only to help control the ridiculous population explosion. I don't know, maybe I'll sell all my stuff and go live in the woods.

Maybe war is just a 'thing' rather than a 'bad thing' or a 'good thing' but it is a destructive and disruptive thing and a very profitable thing on the supply and finance side.

But are there lots of little wars every day that are just normalised and are in fact just a part of being alive?

You eat...something died...you live...one day you will be consumed..why worry?

 

Its good to go to woods but watch out for ticks.

[Owledge]

From Dao De Jing #38, one of my favorites:

 

When kind people act,
they do so without thinking about it.
When the just act,
they're always sure
they're doing the right thing.
But when the righteous act,
and nobody reacts,
they try to force everyone
to do things their way.

 

If you're not in touch with Tao,
at least you can still have integrity.
If you don't have integrity,
there's always kindness.
If you don't have kindness,
there's always justice.
If you don't have justice,
all you have left is righteousness.

[Marblehead]

And what happens when you have lost righteousness?

 

[Marblehead]

2 minutes ago, Apeiron&Peiron said:

The translation I have says "ritual" instead of righteousness...

Well, ritual might follow righteousness couldn't it?

 

[Hancock]

On 8/18/2017 at 5:01 PM, moraldilemma said:

Man, sometimes I don't see the point anymore. What's the point of helping people if they don't want to help themselves? I see humanity going in a downward spiral. People don't care about the environment- the planet they depend on. All people care about is entertainment and collecting crap they don't need. And having more kids. It's so obvious that overpopulation is becoming a huge problem yet everyone still wants to keep reproducing.

 

I feel I'm supposed to be a healer and a teacher. I want to teach about the Dao. But will anyone listen? I thought about becoming a Zen priest, but I don't know if I can take vows to be compassionate if humanity keeps being so self-destructive. Maybe it's because I'm in the US and I'm surrounded by "lol what war are we gonna start next omg." But occasionally I feel like war is a good thing if only to help control the ridiculous population explosion. I don't know, maybe I'll sell all my stuff and go live in the woods.

 

Anyway, I don't know if this is the right place to post this. I'm not trying to vent only, so it's not exactly a journal. I would like some opinionated discussion on this.

Don't worry bout judging Americans, were the lovable jerks of the world, an don't worry if you're going to be appreciated. Choose to accept that you might not be thanked an really search yourself, will that cause unhappiness an resentment? Or are you going to give your life to service, an know there might be no rewards from others just that the job gets done.

 

No shame in walking away from it, or on taking up a thankless position. I suggest really looking an feeling how far you're willing to go, why you're doing it, an if it's in your heart do it or if your heart says No, then walk away from it.

 

My advice bro

Edited September 1, 2017 by Hancock

[silent thunder]

On 8/31/2017 at 5:57 PM, Marblehead said:

And what happens when you have lost righteousness?

 

I'd say you're left with 'justified'.

 

Justified often seems to manifest the most severe, and gleefully violent activities. 

 

It pretty much bottoms the barrel for me, in its scope, depth of depravity, and the gleeful, required interference of /violence toward those/that who the 'justified' deem broken and are morally obligated to correct/fix. 

 

 

 

[Owledge]

2 hours ago, silent thunder said:

I'd say you're left with 'justified'.

 

Justified often seems to manifest the most severe, and gleefully violent activities. 

 

It pretty much bottoms the barrel for me, in its scope, depth of depravity, and the gleeful, required interference of /violence toward those/that who the 'justified' deem broken and are morally obligated to correct/fix. 

 

 

 

That's pretty much the same as righteousness.

I wanted to leave Marblehead's question as rhetorical for himself to ponder on, but I'd say below righteousness is nothing of that lineup of concepts, but only impulse-driven action that requires no conscious thought. (You could say righteousness is exactly that but with an intellectual bullshit paint.)

Edited September 5, 2017 by Owledge

[nohbody]

Faith in humanity may be misplaced.  So what else?

[Marblehead]

So just keep on walking and don't forget to meditate whenever you have the time.

 

[gendao]

On 8/18/2017 at 5:01 PM, moraldilemma said:

What's the point of helping people if they don't want to help themselves? I see humanity going in a downward spiral. People don't care about the environment- the planet they depend on. All people care about is entertainment and collecting crap they don't need. And having more kids. It's so obvious that overpopulation is becoming a huge problem yet everyone still wants to keep reproducing.

 

I feel I'm supposed to be a healer and a teacher. I want to teach about the Dao. But will anyone listen? I thought about becoming a Zen priest, but I don't know if I can take vows to be compassionate if humanity keeps being so self-destructive. Maybe it's because I'm in the US and I'm surrounded by "lol what war are we gonna start next omg." But occasionally I feel like war is a good thing if only to help control the ridiculous population explosion. I don't know, maybe I'll sell all my stuff and go live in the woods.

I agree.  According to the Hopis, we are now nearing the cataclysmic end of the 4th world...and the end of our rope along the upper zig-zag path of 2-hearted, WEIRD mad science...

Quote

“When earthquakes, floods, hailstorms, drought, and famine will be the life of every day, the time will have then come for [either] the return to the true path, or going the zig-zag way.”
The “zig-zag way” refers to a line found on Prophecy Rock, a panel of ancestral Hopi petroglyphs (rock carvings) in northern Arizona. The zig-zag is the upper of two parallel lines. It supposedly represents the path of the Two-Hearts, who are wreaking havoc on our Earth Mother and living contrary to ecological principles and the laws of Nature.

 

The lower line, on the other hand, is the path of the One-Hearts, who are close to soil and the growth of corn, beans, squash—that is, adhering to the true Hopi way. The upper path is divorced from the natural world and totally immersed in the synthetic, manufactured reality of iPhones and Xbox 360s. In essence, it is a lifestyle that the Hopi call koyaanisqatsi, which means “world out of balance,” or “life of moral corruption and turmoil (regarding a group).” The lower way, rooted in earth-based rhythms, finds solace and spiritual sustenance from corn pollen, sunlight, soaking rains, and vast desert vistas—a life in accordance with the Creator or the Great Spirit.

I mean, most of humanity's just a lost cause and ready for a reboot at this point, don't cha think?  It's completely run over and dominated by "2-Hearts" - and any further enabling of them and their agenda is only worsening our planetary destruction...

Edited September 7, 2017 by gendao

[Lost in Translation]

On 8/18/2017 at 3:01 PM, moraldilemma said:

I feel I'm supposed to be a healer and a teacher. I want to teach about the Dao. But will anyone listen?

 

I recall hearing something about wise men hearing something and applying it daily, average men applying it for a bit then stopping, and fools laughing... 

 

[Edited: applied proper quoting technique]

Edited September 10, 2017 by Lost in Translation

[Marblehead]

Some people will listen but you have to put it into words they will understand.

 

Whenever Christians come over to tell me about Christianity they always get an introduction to Daoism.  (Most don't come back.)

 

[sagebrush]

I was reading the above post and I liked it. so thank you.

then a bird hit my window. it has been happening more frequently. I think what must be happening is that they somehow see from the back of the yard where the feeder is through the house to the kitchen window thinking they can fly through. I will have to place something in the window.

 

the title is the faith in humanity.

I got sidetracked by the moment.

 

as I grow older I realize there are many things I would like to study.

as I juggle usual life stresses that take over it seems-

I enjoy bits and pieces of information like the Hopi.

 

Daoism.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by sagebrush

[mrpasserby]

16 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Some people will listen but you have to put it into words they will understand.

 

Whenever Christians come over to tell me about Christianity they always get an introduction to Daoism.  (Most don't come back.)

 

Marblehead, Thanks for giving christians a wake up call. I myself among other things am a retired christian, having met and made peace with the christian gods. So as newbie to Dadaism, can you please aid in my cultivation and tell me for sure am I attempting to become a Daoist or a Taoist? 

[Marblehead]

22 minutes ago, mrpasserby said:

Marblehead, Thanks for giving christians a wake up call. I myself among other things am a retired christian, having met and made peace with the christian gods. So as newbie to Dadaism, can you please aid in my cultivation and tell me for sure am I attempting to become a Daoist or a Taoist? 

There is no conflict between Christianity and Daoist philosophy.  You can be a Christian spiritually and a Daoist philosophically.

 

My best friend is a Christian.  As long as he stays away from talking about the mystical aspects of Christianity we are pretty much always in agreement.  You will find many commonalities between the two.

 

"Taoism" is the older spelling of the word.  "Daoism" is today the more acceptable way of spelling the word.  They are the same thing, different spelling.

 

I am slowly using "Daoism" more often here.  Seems more acceptable.

 

Don't become anything other than who/what you are.  Naturalness is important in Daoism.

 

Edited September 10, 2017 by Marblehead

[mrpasserby]

2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

There is no conflict between Christianity and Daoist philosophy.  You can be a Christian spiritually and a Daoist philosophically.

 

My best friend is a Christian.  As long as he says away from talking about the mystical aspects of Christianity we are pretty much always in agreement.  You will find many commonalities between the two.

 

"Taoism" is the older spelling of the word.  "Daoism" is today the more acceptable way of spelling the word.  They are the same thing, different spelling.

 

I am slowly using "Daoism" more often here.  Seems more acceptable.

 

Don't become anything other than who/what you are.  Naturalness is important in Daoism.

 

Thanks for the sincerity and the spelling. 

[Owledge]

2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

"Taoism" is the older spelling of the word.  "Daoism" is today the more acceptable way of spelling the word.  They are the same thing, different spelling.

 

Isn't it the other way round? With Taoism being Cantonese and Daoism being Mandarin and Taoism the term that was adopted widely by Western culture?

[liminal_luke]

On 19/8/2017 at 10:52 PM, Owledge said:

What should also be putting you off is all the artificial or overblown fear, worries and problems that people are being convinced of in order to incite them and feel hatred against each other. The crap is getting through to you, and if you can't change anyone else, at least keep your own house clean. Always a good start to focus on a pure center. Disconnect those yucky entanglements that suck energy out of you. They speak through you. You cannot be yourself with them.

 

BTW I don't think you can teach about the Dao in a meaningful way without being with Dao. As you will know, the Dao that can be talked about just isn't the real deal, heh. You would only be teaching anger/contempt, the source that motivates you, and thus feed that.

EDIT: Teach the Dao, not about the Dao.

 

Maybe this helps you:

 

 

Beautiful interview and just what I needed to hear -- thank you!

[Marblehead]

7 hours ago, Owledge said:

Isn't it the other way round? With Taoism being Cantonese and Daoism being Mandarin and Taoism the term that was adopted widely by Western culture?

Based on my understanding, the Wade-Giles (oldest) dictionary used Taoism; Pinyin was adopted in 1958 because it is a truer phonetically correct translation and it uses Daoism.

 

[Owledge]

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

Based on my understanding, the Wade-Giles (oldest) dictionary used Taoism; Pinyin was adopted in 1958 because it is a truer phonetically correct translation and it uses Daoism.

 

I just read up a bit on the two languages. Interesting. Cantonese closer to middle Chinese (old language), but Mandarin simpler and easier to learn. Wondering though whether Mandarin means any loss of nuance or any other practical purpose or whether it's just a national identity thing that some Hong Kong Chinese resist the imposition of Mandarin. It might be that their adherence to Cantonese is a mere symptom of colonial indoctrination and wanting to stick to what's familiar. (Reprogramming minds to turn people into dependent cultural agents is not untypical for imperial colonialism, so in case Beijing sees it like this, I could understand why they're pushing Mandarin in schools. On the other hand, the Chinese government also seems to pursue a general mindset of cultural assimilation, if I look at their treatment of Tibet.)

Edited September 10, 2017 by Owledge