The body of humanity

[CloudHands]

It doesn't matter but... Thank you.

 

It's quite something to have the possibility to ask and be answered. Whatever the importance of the question

Edited August 23, 2017 by CloudHands
quiet -> quite

[CloudHands]

Rephrasing.

Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition.

 

Ok that was for the humour part. Now let's make "opposite" forces enter the room.

 

Actually there are two problematics in my questioning. The first one, wu-wei, has been often discussed here and is well documented.

 

The second is, as a specie do we have a quest or is life just and a collective and individual experience ? Both are not completely mutually exclusive. A quest can be an experience.

 

If you have a look at how Dao developed nature, it's seems there is no goal for no specie but a collective expansion, evolution with no particular wish of result. Mass extinctions are not a sign of particular care. That's also in agreement with the texts (straw-dogs and so).

 

Now if you look at the Human specie, it seems to be a search for a meaning in all that. In every culture I have in mind, there is a need for an explanation, an exploration, intellectual and spiritual successful realization. It takes different forms according to the related cultures but the "why are we here ?" is not answered by the "how to live best".

If there is a search, does it mean that there is something to search ?

 

I found answers on a personal level to these questions (Be). So in a fractal, daoist perspective, the answer should be the same for the other levels. One can be responsible only for himself.

I'm still not fully convinced because... what's a body is not the sum of its parts. Mass of people don't act like individual persons. 1+1 can be 3, things evolve into structures that are not equivalent in proprieties, and so on.

 

The swinging between these polarities is not a dilemma for me, but that's a intellectual enigma I'm still pondering.

Edited August 24, 2017 by CloudHands

[blue eyed snake]

15 minutes ago, CloudHands said:

the "why are we here ?" is not answered by the "how to live best".

 

maybe we are here to learn ' how to live best' 

[CloudHands]

6 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

maybe we are here to learn ' how to live best' 

 

As I said it doesn't solve the "why?" but "why?" is maybe not a fair question for humans. Doubts are as healthy than certainties relieve.

 

But that's an answer. A good one. Damn.

[CloudHands]

36 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

maybe we are here to learn ' how to live best' 

 

Besides agreeing with the idea of a progression, you somewhat quit the idea of uninterrupted alternating equivalent in power yin/yang phases : growth an decay.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but the way I understand daoism, nothing goes nowhere but in appearance. Being and non being are ultimately perfect in a stable but dynamic model. You have nowhere else to go than where you are already. Humanity keeps all its component as they are, only apparent fluctuations.

[Hancock]

On 8/20/2017 at 5:37 AM, CloudHands said:

Evolution, hurts, troubles, riots, wars reveal something. The question that have us to take different sides is... is it a cough or does it need treatment ?

 

 

As a reflection on action and reaction.

 

What's the initial action, the one, the first one that called for reaction ? The 1->2

Something one wish to stop ?

We, spiritual minorities understand we can grow from returning. But for the majority, for life evolution it gave only one direction, or all the directions if you prefer but only one directive : ahead (survive, adapt, evolve).

So, for all, as the engine is on you can't realize peace by doing nothing... It will require everyone to be satisfied with its situation. It has no chance to happen.

 

So 3 possibilities :

1. it's normal to be ill and you can live ill : so it's not illness it's a condition of living.

2. illness is going to kill you if you don't treat.

3. to treat non-illness will kill you.

 

I'd like to hear your insights on this

Personally, there are several hardcore things we are born with. The first is to learn an stabilize a frame of reference. We grow without much effort, except hunger an rest to fuel our biology. The mind becomes more dominant causing us to differentiate from survival to focusing on what it has learned to be in its best interest. The first call is orientation of our cognitive facilities.

 

Wish to stop? For me it'd be hate.

 

As for realizing peace, I see it only happening when we unify as a species. That way we'd learn to harmonize an direct our natural instincts for facing challenges outward so we can continue to develop an grow beyond our current state of being, an as a society.

[9th]

4 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

maybe we are here to learn ' how to live best' 

 

People tend to learn "how to be useful to something".  

 

Yet they often lose sight of "what it is in particular".

 

Perhaps we should try "to see the big picture".

 

So we can learn "how to be of best use to that".

[Limahong]

On 8/20/2017 at 6:37 PM, CloudHands said:

Evolution, hurts, troubles, riots, wars reveal something. The question that have us to take different sides is... is it a cough or does it need treatment ?

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

What is that something?

For the moment let us call it X.

X gives rise to "the question"?

Without knowing X, I cannot answer "the question".

Please give me an example of X, then perhaps I may be able to answer "the question".

 

I need a context.

 

- LimA

Edited September 22, 2017 by Limahong
Enhancement of sentence.

[26sol]

" it's normal to be ill and you can live ill : so it's not illness it's a condition of living "

oh well,what can you do?all is Dao! This is the cynical view,if one lives like this, it is almost sure one will survive and it is also possible one will have success but one can not grow,no matter how many spiritual facades one wears.It is very important to point that the cynical way works perfect for  authority and the status quo.

" illness is going to kill you if you don't treat. "

I can relate to this,but must clarify that we must not try to change Nature, only ourselves.I believe we must embrace Nature but not emulate Her.Nature will allways be there and maybe the reason why,is that she has no compassion and empathy.Existence as a whole is her goal and She has no interest in individuals.If we where to emulate Her,we would lose our humanity.

[CloudHands]

19 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

What is that something?

For the moment let us call it X.

X gives rise to "the question"?

Without knowing X, I cannot answer "the question".

Please give me an example of X, then perhaps I may be able to answer "the question".

 

I need a context.

 

- LimA

 

Hi LimA !

 

Evolution, hurts, troubles, riots, wars reveal something. The question that have us to take different sides is... is it a cough or does it need treatment ?

 

To me it reveals troubles, diseases, but what I consider so are not necessarily yours. To me, high rates of psychological disorders, penitential population, cancers and autism explosions, incredible richness unfair distribution, extreme valorization of materialism, competition and success are not signs of a healthy humanity.

 

For someone else it could be homosexuality, immigration, mixed marriage, etc...

 

I can live with it and if I don't expect to see these things change in a major way in my lifespan yet I see these as signs of an imbalanced specie not a normal satisfying state that has to and will stay so anyway (can get much worse too).

[CloudHands]

8 hours ago, 26sol said:

" it's normal to be ill and you can live ill : so it's not illness it's a condition of living "

oh well,what can you do?all is Dao! This is the cynical view,if one lives like this, it is almost sure one will survive and it is also possible one will have success but one can not grow,no matter how many spiritual facades one wears.It is very important to point that the cynical way works perfect for  authority and the status quo.

" illness is going to kill you if you don't treat. "

I can relate to this,but must clarify that we must not try to change Nature, only ourselves.I believe we must embrace Nature but not emulate Her.Nature will allways be there and maybe the reason why,is that she has no compassion and empathy.Existence as a whole is her goal and She has no interest in individuals.If we where to emulate Her,we would lose our humanity.

 

1) It is very possible we self-destruct.

 

2) Nature, yes but Human nature, what is it ? that's the question. We proved to be polymorphous.

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, CloudHands said:

Hi LimA !

 

Hi CloudHands!

 

So X = high rates of psychological disorders, penitential population, cancers and autism explosions, incredible richness unfair distribution, extreme valorization of materialism, competition and success are not signs of a healthy humanity.

X can also be - homosexuality, immigration, mixed marriage, etc...

Thus X is more than a cough.

 

Now I understand why your thread is titled thus - The Body of Humanity. And you strike me as one who is magnanimous. Good of you to draw our attention to X. Thank you.

 

 

1 hour ago, CloudHands said:

1) It is very possible we self-destruct.

 

I agree and we have to be careful. You have drawn our attention to this possibility of self-destruction.

 

 

1 hour ago, CloudHands said:

2) Nature, yes but Human nature, what is it ? that's the question. We proved to be polymorphous.

 

It is right to differentiate human nature from Nature.

I marvel at the wonders of Nature.

But I wonder uncomfortably about human nature,].

 

You have used a big word on human nature - "polymorphous".

With such a word, you mean human nature:

'have, assumed, or passed through many or various forms, stages, or the like' (Dictionary.com)?

You asked - what is human nature?

 

I don't know for sure. Perhaps we can chew on these -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good night.

 

- LimA

 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Limahong
Enhancement of sentence.