Nietzsche Quotes

[morning dew]

2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Yeah, it seems that Nietzsche ended up with "The Will to Power".  That is, one's own moral standards.  I get into arguments about this periodically because many people take this will to power as power over others but I think Nietzsche was referring to power over one's self.

 

 

Yeah, that's my understanding of the will to power as well. It's a process of self-individuation and becoming the best 'you' you can become.  Power over others sounds more how his sister might have twisted his words when she passed them on to the Nazis (I think, I can't remember  ).

 

I guess there could be overlap between Nietzsche's Superman and ZZ's superior man (or whatever he called him/her) in some instances. I can't remember exactly how he defined the Superman. Could Jimi Hendrix have been a Superman? He certainly self-actualised as a guitarist. On the other hand, he would have gone against ZZ's ideas of being in line with the Dao and conserving energy and longevity, for example: Hendrix lived fast and died young.

 

I'm not sure. Some more ramblings from me.  

[Marblehead]

3 minutes ago, morning dew said:

 

Yeah, that's my understanding of the will to power as well. It's a process of self-individuation and becoming the best 'you' you can become.  Power over others sounds more how his sister might have twisted his words when she passed them on to the Nazis (I think, I can't remember  ).

Good recall.  Yes, his sister's boyfriend was a Nazi.  And yes, I believe she and her boyfriend did a lot of editing of Nietzsche's unfinished work for "The Will to Power".

 

3 minutes ago, morning dew said:

 

I guess there could be overlap between Nietzsche's Superman and ZZ's superior man (or whatever he called him/her) in some instances. I can't remember exactly how he defined the Superman.

You are doing good.  Your curiosity will lead you to whatever interests you in this regard.  (I don't want to plant any thoughts in your mind but rather allow you to form your own opinions.)

 

3 minutes ago, morning dew said:

Could Jimi Hendrix have been a Superman? He certainly self-actualised as a guitarist. On the other hand, he would have gone against ZZ's ideas of being in line with the Dao and conserving energy and longevity, for example: Hendrix lived fast and died young.

As much as I like Jimi I have to say "No" based on the little I know of his personal life.

 

3 minutes ago, morning dew said:

 

I'm not sure. Some more ramblings from me.  

Ramble on.  I'm pretty sure I will be able to keep up with you.

 

[morning dew]

A couple of quotes from an interesting article I was skimming earlier. There seem to be lots of different interpretation of Nietzsche's work; however, I tend to favour Jung's interpretation, which seems to be reasonably in line with Daoism (unsurprisingly, I guess) – I'm still thinking on this point. 

 

And yes, Hendrix probably wouldn't fit the Superman going by this article from what I can remember of his life and the way he died.  

 

 

Quote

 

Jung believed that the archetype of a hero is the oldest and the most powerful of all archetypes, and considered religious figures such as Buddha, Christ or Mohammed to be its various personifications (in The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious). The hero’s journey is ultimately a journey towards self-integration. The final destination, which Jung called ‘individuation’, is a state of wholeness and completeness, and it involves the unification of opposites. Indeed, coincidentia oppositorum (coincidence of the opposites), a concept borrowed from Heraclitus, is a propelling force in becoming the Übermensch. The constant tension and energy of the conflict becomes a source of inspiration and creativity; the strife leads to “new and more powerful births”. The superabundance of any force inevitably produces its opposite and an inner balance can be achieved by uniting (or overcoming, to use Nietzsche’s term) these opposites. The restoration of equilibrium is the essence of healing. The Übermensch advocates a new ‘great health’ which he equates with an all-embracing totality whereby “all opposites are blended into a unity” (The Gay Science, 382). The conscious and the unconscious, good and evil, the earthly and the spiritual synchronize in contrapuntal harmony. A noble soul is no longer divided; it becomes an ‘individual’ not a ‘dividual’, as Nietzsche has stressed. The element of transformation (or resurrection) lies at the heart of the hero’s message. The great hero (der Überheld) overcomes himself, sublimates his impulses and passions, and owes nothing to anyone, not even to God. In the process of ‘becoming what one is’, the Übermensch unites reason and passion, order and chaos, discipline and ecstasy. But to become ‘all one’, and be free, ultimately means to be alone, taking full responsibility for one’s life. There is no scapegoat to take the blame for one’s misfortunes; not the Jews, not the Christians, not the Muslims, not even the Devil himself. One is sentenced to freedom and its aloneness:

“During the longest period of human past nothing was more terrible than to feel that one stood by oneself. To be alone, to experience things by oneself, neither to obey nor to rule, to be an individual – that was not a pleasure but a punishment; one was sentenced ‘to individuality’. Freedom of thought was considered a discomfort itself.”
The Gay Science

 

 

 

Quote

The Übermensch is a true ‘poet of his life’. He is no longer a plaything in the hands of God or gods, but a master of his own fate. In self-creating and self-destroying, he ‘becomes what he is’, a symbol in which “the creator and the creature are united” (Beyond, 225). In Nietzsche’s moral universe, evil is a necessity and something to be overcome. The ‘will to power’ is a will to master one’s own instincts, one’s own evil and resentment, and has nothing to do with subjugating others. In the process of perpetual self-overcoming, the Übermensch transcends the limits of human existence; man becomes a lord upon himself. “I teach you the Übermensch. Man is something that should be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?” (Zarathustra, Prologue). To the Christian doctrine of ‘original sin’ that divided the perfect God from the imperfect human being, Nietzsche opposed the Übermensch, a symbol of unification. Completeness, not perfection, is the ultimate Holy Grail in the hero’s journey.

 

https://philosophynow.org/issues/93/Nietzsches_Ubermensch_A_Hero_of_Our_Time

 

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by morning dew

[Marblehead]

Good article.

 

I don't talk about Jung as my knowledge is just about zero.

 

I feel sure that Nietzsche never read anything about Taoism as I feel he would have had many opportunities to reference it.

 

 

Edit to add:

 

Thinking about it, I doubt there was a German translation available for him to read.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

It is nobler to declare oneself wrong than to insist on being right - especially when one is right.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I remember I used to quote him all the time.

 

After a while I figured out he was a dickweed that just wanted the world to burn. 

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

I remember I used to quote him all the time.

 

After a while I figured out he was a dickweed that just wanted the world to burn. 

Hahaha!  I see you too got trapped into believing he was a nihilist.  So many have fallen for that.  This is mainly based in who's translation of his work one reads and also, and even more important, by reading what actual nihilists have written about him.

 

And in all truth, it was Nietzsche who prepared me for acceptance of Taoist Philosophy.

 

 

[TheWhiteRabbit]

2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Hahaha!  I see you too got trapped into believing he was a nihilist.  So many have fallen for that.  This is mainly based in who's translation of his work one reads and also, and even more important, by reading what actual nihilists have written about him.

 

And in all truth, it was Nietzsche who prepared me for acceptance of Taoist Philosophy.

 

 

 

I am glad that was what started it.  I suppose I should say his writings if you look at them from a state of balance, show he is searching for something.  But, he feels established rules and order were too restrictive.  So, he turns and attacks these... Rather ruthlessly may I add.

 

Sometime back, people showed me how different philosophies fit into different groups.  I struggled to try to see the patterns other people had developed.  Later, after my own thought experiment which I raised the question if critical thinking was the way to go... I explored "Life is not fair" and other negative destructive types of thinking.  This from previously thinking that life is fair.

 

In reality now, I believe life is fair.  You can make it unfair due to your thinking.  Amrit is the nectar of immortality but Amrit is also used in Sanskrit to make up words that mean "of good spirit" or "of spirit causing good".  Now I merely see Nietzsche's works as self-defeating and self-destructive.  That type of thinking seems to limit the minds ability to see beyond what it wants to tear down.  The problem was not that the things he attacked were wrong or oppressive.  It was that he could not see the good in things.

 

Nietzsche was my go to guy for tearing down established thinking.  But the real result is that you just end up tearing down yourself.  Probably why people think he is a nihilist.  But I think philosophy classifications are pure BS.  Just because if you classify something as X then it is a protected thing.  I just look at things the way they are.  The fact is Nietzsche really limited himself.  People can probably argue a lot till their blue in the face.  It wont make me change my mind because these whole subsets of "lets tear down God because I love X type sin" is really what it is about.  It doesn't allow anyone to look coy and say oh this guy is a righteous zealot.  For the main fact that Nietzsche never aspired anyone to be great, only to tear down people who were actually bigger and better than him.  Today people think he is a saint.  That is a joke.

[Marblehead]

Nice response.  Albert Camus, a lover of Nietzsche, said about the same thing you said.  Camus said that Nietzsche never finished his work; never completed his philosophy.  I would agree.

 

I will also state that one should be wary if they ever consider reading "The Will To Power".  That was heavily edited by his sister and her Nazi boyfriend.

 

I also recommend that one should be wary if reading a translation by anyone other than Walter Kaufmann.

 

Nietzsche's  "Übermensch", Superman, can be compared with the Taoist Sage living his true nature.

 

Yes, Nietzsche was a non-conformist, an Anarchist.  Much of his writing is based on his opposition to European Christianity of his day.  He considered the followers of Christianity of his day to be the herd animals - the Confucians (my assessment).

 

And keep in mind, when Nietzsche said "God is dead." he was speaking of the Jewish God who the Christians killed.  I label Nietzsche an Atheist but I'm not sure this is an absolute truth.

 

I agree that the labels we put on things and concepts mean nothing in and of themselves.  We use them for reference only.

 

But he did promote finding one's own true nature as opposed to becoming what society tells us we are supposed to be.

 

 

 

[Will]

I don't have much to add to this thread, having read barely any of Nietzsche's work, but I just wanted to say I'm very happy to see that others here have noticed Taoism's deep connection to postmodernism. It's incredibly fascinating to notice all the parallels between the ancient words of Zhuangzi and the modern ones of Nietzsche, Rorty, Derrida, etc. In many senses I think a lot of this stuff can be read as an extension of the Taoist canon, as a further exploration of those ideas. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Will

[TheWhiteRabbit]

1 hour ago, Will said:

I don't have much to add to this thread, having read barely any of Nietzsche's work, but I just wanted to say I'm very happy to see that others here have noticed Taoism's deep connection to postmodernism. It's incredibly fascinating to notice all the parallels between the ancient words of Zhuangzi and the modern ones of Nietzsche, Rorty, Derrida, etc. In many senses I think a lot of this stuff can be read as an extension of the Taoist canon, as a further exploration of those ideas. 

 

I've noticed the recent trend towards the postmodern supposition.  There is something strange and that exerts a force of dare I say fascism upon people in the postmodernism category.  Fascism is if you look it up for a real definition the concept of bringing a state, entity or group of things under control usually the threat of some force.  Today, people mistake it for previous regimes or ideologies, which really is not the core meaning of it.

 

I wholly agree in favor of using Taoist or Daoist elements in things.  But, it is also too my understanding that postmodernism takes elements of the psyche, namely the cognitive categorization of things and certain addictive behaviours.  These are in conflict with the Dao as using tricks or elaborate subterfuges are not in harmony with a system (The Dao) that is based upon a live and let live ideal.  If anyone wants to create something to aid in changing this type of demagogic behaviour I want to be a part of it.  But, the reality is that postmodernism at least for the near future is here to stay.  This is because the tools postmodernism uses are way too addictive (a substance) for addicts.  Let me briefly cover:

 

There are some ideas that keep postmodernism going.  That they fight for the oppressed.  In higher level non-dual thinking we realize that the more something is fought against... The stronger it becomes.  This ensures the survival of this line of thinking.  Second, meager people become adrenaline junkies... Shaming people who have been perceived to have attacked weaker or groups seen as disparaged. They do this easily and win with name-calling.  Thus, they win with no real merit of their own against people who may actually have greater skills and merits.  Thus, postmodernism is an addicts haven, breeding side ideas and keeping their quo in place.  There is no answer to it until a new quo is devised.  The next stage which will be out of necessity from society decline from the addiction of postmodernism.  It will most likely be a four-tier merit based caste system because no one wants to be untouchable and we all learned this from the postmodern era (now) which is soon coming to an end.

16 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Nice response.  Albert Camus, a lover of Nietzsche, said about the same thing you said.  Camus said that Nietzsche never finished his work; never completed his philosophy.  I would agree.

 

I will also state that one should be wary if they ever consider reading "The Will To Power".  That was heavily edited by his sister and her Nazi boyfriend.

 

I also recommend that one should be wary if reading a translation by anyone other than Walter Kaufmann.

 

Nietzsche's  "Übermensch", Superman, can be compared with the Taoist Sage living his true nature.

 

Yes, Nietzsche was a non-conformist, an Anarchist.  Much of his writing is based on his opposition to European Christianity of his day.  He considered the followers of Christianity of his day to be the herd animals - the Confucians (my assessment).

 

And keep in mind, when Nietzsche said "God is dead." he was speaking of the Jewish God who the Christians killed.  I label Nietzsche an Atheist but I'm not sure this is an absolute truth.

 

I agree that the labels we put on things and concepts mean nothing in and of themselves.  We use them for reference only.

 

But he did promote finding one's own true nature as opposed to becoming what society tells us we are supposed to be.

 

 

 

 

Having sprained my ankle, I have a bit more time now to devote to posting.

I have to agree with your findings, Marblehead.  The only thing I have to add is that he led a tormented life.  Something I can identify with.  He also later argued against the impossibility of an evolutionist scenario as time went on.

 

But for budding and continuing Atheists there are still other concepts to wet ones curiousity.  God's Debris, pantheism or even Hindu thought that are unique ideas.  Nothing magically exploding and creating ordered systems definately still attributes a measure of magical thinking, as humans we never got away and it still haunts the deepest regions of our psyche.

 

Nietzsche's search for the self is probably more a characteristic of a self-realization one of non-duality.  He didn't have the chance to complete this type of self-actualization.  If he did we could say he was the first western non-dual thinker.

Edited September 23, 2017 by TheWhiteRabbit
stillahunts is not a word. minor correction.

[Marblehead]

7 hours ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

Having sprained my ankle, I have a bit more time now to devote to posting.

I have to agree with your findings, Marblehead.  The only thing I have to add is that he led a tormented life.  Something I can identify with.  He also later argued against the impossibility of an evolutionist scenario as time went on.

Yes, I spoke of that elsewhere.  He was always a sickly person  Bad genes.  And later the syphilis destroyed him.  (That's not an absolute but it is my understanding.)

 

7 hours ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

But for budding and continuing Atheists there are still other concepts to wet ones curiousity.  God's Debris, pantheism or even Hindu thought that are unique ideas.  Nothing magically exploding and creating ordered systems definately still attributes a measure of magical thinking, as humans we never got away and it still haunts the deepest regions of our psyche.

He actually spoke kindly of Buddhism.  (No God to criticize.)  (And we have to remember that the Greek and Roman gods were an important part of his thinking.)

 

7 hours ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

Nietzsche's search for the self is probably more a characteristic of a self-realization one of non-duality.  He didn't have the chance to complete this type of self-actualization.  If he did we could say he was the first western non-dual thinker.

Excellent observation.  This would be an excellent hypothesis for a paper.

 

[Will]

21 hours ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

I've noticed the recent trend towards the postmodern supposition.  There is something strange and that exerts a force of dare I say fascism upon people in the postmodernism category.  Fascism is if you look it up for a real definition the concept of bringing a state, entity or group of things under control usually the threat of some force.  Today, people mistake it for previous regimes or ideologies, which really is not the core meaning of it.

 

I wholly agree in favor of using Taoist or Daoist elements in things.  But, it is also too my understanding that postmodernism takes elements of the psyche, namely the cognitive categorization of things and certain addictive behaviours.  These are in conflict with the Dao as using tricks or elaborate subterfuges are not in harmony with a system (The Dao) that is based upon a live and let live ideal.  If anyone wants to create something to aid in changing this type of demagogic behaviour I want to be a part of it.  But, the reality is that postmodernism at least for the near future is here to stay.  This is because the tools postmodernism uses are way too addictive (a substance) for addicts.  Let me briefly cover:

 

There are some ideas that keep postmodernism going.  That they fight for the oppressed.  In higher level non-dual thinking we realize that the more something is fought against... The stronger it becomes.  This ensures the survival of this line of thinking.  Second, meager people become adrenaline junkies... Shaming people who have been perceived to have attacked weaker or groups seen as disparaged. They do this easily and win with name-calling.  Thus, they win with no real merit of their own against people who may actually have greater skills and merits.  Thus, postmodernism is an addicts haven, breeding side ideas and keeping their quo in place.  There is no answer to it until a new quo is devised.  The next stage which will be out of necessity from society decline from the addiction of postmodernism.  It will most likely be a four-tier merit based caste system because no one wants to be untouchable and we all learned this from the postmodern era (now) which is soon coming to an end.

 

I can't say I disagree with most of your points. Your thoughts here are actually quite interesting because I'd been thinking about some of these same things a couple weeks ago.

 

Essentially, it boils down to this: Postmodernist thought, at its core, is not really about helping the oppressed, etc. For example, Nietzsche was arguably the first major Western postmodernist thinker. Yet he wasn't particularly interested in helping oppressed groups.

 

This issue is that, in more recent times, postmodernist ideas have been selectively picked up by many liberals. They love to use the parts about power relations being constructed by society, etc., but evidently choose to ignore the parts about how you can't ever really be sure what the "right" thing to do is (otherwise they probably wouldn't fight so strongly for their causes). 

 

Don't let any political opinions about those that use postmodernist ideas to their advantage keep you from appreciating the wonderful mounds of underlying thought! Much of it really is quite Taoist. 

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I suppose when it comes to it I can sum up my thoughts about politics like this.  When it starts there is so much brightness, clearness, hope and righteousness.  After 250 the corruption declines and destroys the regime.  The Nation is dead.  Long live America Version 2.  Unless you know it is going to happen and plan your countries demise after 250 years...

 

@Will I think Nietzsche claimed there was no right or wrong.  A person, hypothetically speaking, may argue such things independent of nature, order... Rather than faze me I just think to how those discussions usually do not result in either good.  So, returning to other postmodern works.  I think it is the general idea that is implied by postmodernism is that there is no truth only conclusions.  I can think of many people who have also said similar things like "no truth only suppositions".  That probably has shaped how I conclude things in my posts.  Instead of actually saying okay this is it and nothing else, I just say okay here are some facts, how they make me feel and that is usually what humans do anyway.  Some humans just think their points are more important.  I don't.  If someone is hell bent on doing something wrong... I'm the guy in the corner secretly hoping he will do it and put himself out of his own misery.

 

Nietzsche quote:

" To redeem the past and to transform every ‘It was’ into an ‘I willed it thus!’ – that alone I call redemption!"

 

Here, I speak more of the casual nature of much self-fulfilling prophecy, redemption is just reclaiming something for yourself or taking your power back.

 

 

[Marblehead]

Nice exchange.  

 

The concept of "Beyond Good and Evil" was mentioned.  Nice.

 

The concept of "The Will To Power" was mentioned.  I have spoken to this.

 

Yes, I agree, it is about taking our power to be what we truly are back from those who control us.

 

"The Will To Be Myself."  Or maybe:  To be greater than the total sum of all my parts.

 

 

[Marblehead]

There is always some madness in love.  But there is also always some reason in madness.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

On 9/24/2017 at 7:55 AM, Marblehead said:

Nice exchange.  

 

The concept of "Beyond Good and Evil" was mentioned.  Nice.

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose I have something more to add.  Even though Nietzsche argues against their being absolute truth... I entirely disagree.  Because We have many scientific laws.  Even though they may be bent by certain forces at different times... They do not break.  Hence, I see Good as order, construction.   Evil, destruction, entropy and chaos have the same thread.  Randomness is not chaos.

 

Nietzsche Quote:

"the lack of any cardinal distinction between man and animal – a doctrine which I consider true but deadly – is thrust upon the people for another generation… no one should be surprised if the people perishes of petty egoism, ossification and greed, falls apart and ceases to be a people; in its place systems of individualist egoism, brotherhoods for the rapacious exploitation of non-brothers”

 

[Marblehead]

Yep.  You said more.

 

Hard for me to either agree or disagree with you.  You both are right.  (Sorry)

 

Yes, there are physical facts.  But for how long are these facts?  The universe is constantly changing.  And I consider "truths" to be subjective understandings of these physical facts.

 

In my mind just flashed:  United we stand, divided we fall.

 

I doubt the theory of chaos was very important to Nietzsche but my memory doesn't serve me will enough to actually make such a statement.

 

Agree, randomness is not chaos.  Randomness are processes we yet do not understand.

 

In the quote above perhaps Nietzsche is talking about the difference between the "herd animal" and the man of strong moral character?

 

 

[TheWhiteRabbit]

21 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Yep.  You said more.

 

Hard for me to either agree or disagree with you.  You both are right.  (Sorry)

 

Yes, there are physical facts.  But for how long are these facts?  The universe is constantly changing.  And I consider "truths" to be subjective understandings of these physical facts.

 

In my mind just flashed:  United we stand, divided we fall.

 

I doubt the theory of chaos was very important to Nietzsche but my memory doesn't serve me will enough to actually make such a statement.

 

Agree, randomness is not chaos.  Randomness are processes we yet do not understand.

 

In the quote above perhaps Nietzsche is talking about the difference between the "herd animal" and the man of strong moral character?

 

 

 

Division is just as much a self-fulfilling prophecy as unity.

Just as if they were that butterfly.  Things happen and embody the attention ascribed to them...

You can call it LOA, a coincidence through synchronicity... There have also been many cases where people became fearful, as a hive mind of a particular event.  Maybe it is age.  I suggest that there are not any coincidences.  Coincidence assumes that we are not really doing anything and that not only keeps us from being 'in the now' as well as that we are the victims in the universe.  Which we are not.  If we speak of Nietzsche on these terms, "how would it be if we claimed that we ourselves had willed it thus?"

 

As for the Universe, no doubt laws are bent, but only in the extreme circumstances.  Without matter, no magnetism causes light to actually travel slower than it would through space where matter and magnetism is present.  Nietzsche also had a love-hate relationship with Christianity.  There were things he would not refute, because in fact he argued against evolution being a major player.  This is what makes Nietzsche more of an existentialist:  That he talked about things more in terms of people's reactions to given things.  When he talked about killing God, he was not really talking about himself, but the perceptions of people.  Just like the last quote.  He wasn't talking about people specifically or even a particular person because unsuccessful people only talk about people themselves.  Instead, he satirically analyzed their ideas and how they affect things.  Basically, if x and y happen well, good luck because we are all going to have z.  But, yes, the animalization of humanity did continue and you can cross out the last word and willingly insert 'your next of kin'.

 

So, you will find that I didn't really disagree much about the points we spoke of but just expanded on the fact that he was very sarcastic about some of the things he said.  Other times like the quote about animals and humans lent himself to an exaggeration almost to the point of saying:  'Oh hey, if humans are really animals then you wont mind throwing a family member a bone in a few years.'  Yuks on me.

[Marblehead]

8 minutes ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

Division is just as much a self-fulfilling prophecy as unity.

Were you saving this post for when I logged on this morning?  A lot of thought went into it.

 

Yes, sometimes in life if we want to progress we must divide our self from all our attachments as they may be preventing us from progression. 

 

8 minutes ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

Just as if they were that butterfly.  Things happen and embody the attention ascribed to them...

You can call it LOA, a coincidence through synchronicity... There have also been many cases where people became fearful, as a hive mind of a particular event.  Maybe it is age.  I suggest that there are not any coincidences.  Coincidence assumes that we are not really doing anything and that not only keeps us from being 'in the now' as well as that we are the victims in the universe.  Which we are not.  If we speak of Nietzsche on these terms, "how would it be if we claimed that we ourselves had willed it thus?"

Yep, no coincidences; no accidents.  There is always at least one cause before the event.  This cause would be Nietzsche's "will".

 

8 minutes ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

As for the Universe, no doubt laws are bent, but only in the extreme circumstances.  Without matter, no magnetism causes light to actually travel slower than it would through space where matter and magnetism is present.  Nietzsche also had a love-hate relationship with Christianity.  There were things he would not refute, because in fact he argued against evolution being a major player.  This is what makes Nietzsche more of an existentialist:  That he talked about things more in terms of people's reactions to given things.  When he talked about killing God, he was not really talking about himself, but the perceptions of people.  Just like the last quote.  He wasn't talking about people specifically or even a particular person because unsuccessful people only talk about people themselves.  Instead, he satirically analyzed their ideas and how they affect things.  Basically, if x and y happen well, good luck because we are all going to have z.  But, yes, the animalization of humanity did continue and you can cross out the last word and willingly insert 'your next of kin'.

Nietzsche had a very strong Christian background when he was young.  He did not say that he killed God.  He said it were the European Christians who killed God.

 

The process of evolution also includes the process of devolution.  The devolution of humankind is what Nietzsche was protesting.  And devolution can lead to extinction.

 

8 minutes ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

So, you will find that I didn't really disagree much about the points we spoke of but just expanded on the fact that he was very sarcastic about some of the things he said.  Other times like the quote about animals and humans lent himself to an exaggeration almost to the point of saying:  'Oh hey, if humans are really animals then you wont mind throwing a family member a bone in a few years.'  Yuks on me.

Yes, Nietzsche was a sarcastic critic.  Maybe he felt that this was a good way to get people to look at themselves in the mirror.  Seems it didn't work too well.  Seems that few are looking in the mirror.

 

[TheWhiteRabbit]

4 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Were you saving this post for when I logged on this morning?  A lot of thought went into it.

 

Yes, sometimes in life if we want to progress we must divide our self from all our attachments as they may be preventing us from progression. 

 

Yep, no coincidences; no accidents.  There is always at least one cause before the event.  This cause would be Nietzsche's "will".

 

Nietzsche had a very strong Christian background when he was young.  He did not say that he killed God.  He said it were the European Christians who killed God.

 

The process of evolution also includes the process of devolution.  The devolution of humankind is what Nietzsche was protesting.  And devolution can lead to extinction.

 

Yes, Nietzsche was a sarcastic critic.  Maybe he felt that this was a good way to get people to look at themselves in the mirror.  Seems it didn't work too well.  Seems that few are looking in the mirror.

 

 

Well, with the NFL protests I had people actually asking me:  "Hey Grant, what is going on here?  I thought Trump was trying to bring unity to this country."  Okay, the second sentence was not actually said.  It was more of an implication of the question.  So, I merely stated that Division... That is their reality and what they are focused on.  Naturally, this will cause even more division.  Because you can not create unity by strengthening your focus on division.  Unity happens when you get everyone to go along with an idea.  You are going to have some people who have trouble with changes in this country.  Then I just summed it up by saying the main point is this:  If you focus on division and speak of division you will only have division because it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If you focus and speak about unity, you will have unity and it becomes self-fulfilling prophecy for you.

 

Naturally, when we speak of will... There is much science involved with it too.  Haha.  Okay, back to serious.  I had a man actually say "so, if I want to become a woman, I just think that and boom I am a woman."  (No kidding he really wants to be a woman and this was at my job)  So, I really didn't want to make it more difficult for this guy.  I could tell that something was going on with him.  In fact he has so much "stuff" coming off him he looked like he had been run over by a bus.  Some people are very self-defeating.  So, I said it is easier to think that good things are coming your way only than to try to change your appearance.  There is a lot biologically going on with the human body, much science involved, to change something like that would be to take all of that into consideration.  So, I just emphasised that thinking positively and using positive affirmations daily would make the difference in how things are going for you.

 

Actually, this was quite random from my perspective.  I tend to enjoy talking about things like Nietzsche, existentialism... How the universe takes a pee.  Not because I think my ideas are great.  People are great when we sit down like fermented fish like this and we savor the flavor.

 

Funny things mirrors are.  I actually got to thinking about that Nietzsche quote a few days ago.  It was actually because I noticed that sometimes family members even forget we are living in a civilized society.  Hitting the rewind button two years, and spewing many of my ideas about things to family members who are still very staunch liberals would send them into a screaming tirade.  Sound human?  No?  We are not currently living in a time where people openly discuss ideas.  If ideas are threatening, we suppress or intimidate others.(Naturally not talking about myself here.)  Naturally, in the past I had been known to go on tirades as well.  But, this actually opened my eyes to the fact that elsewhere THIS has become the norm.  People ACTUALLY behave that way.  I could use name-calling but what is the point?  Now I just ask questions to get people to think.  That is how that mirror worked.  When it comes to it many family members elsewhere might "sell out" another family member in theory for a very large sum of money.  It sounds like insanity to me.  I would like to actually see an increase in loyalty instead otherwise what is a family if you can not count on them?  That family members believe in an lying pundit like Bill Maher over their own flesh and blood?  That I told them Trump would win over a year in advance and still... The insanity continues because people can't discuss ideas.  That is why Political Correctness has to die.  There is no sanity as long as it still lives.  It became this fire breathing dragon I would love so much to just so murderously kill with no pity or empathy.  Something that seemed so good became an evil and we all have to live with it.

[Marblehead]

20 minutes ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

Well, with the NFL protests I had people actually asking me:  "Hey Grant, what is going on here?  I thought Trump was trying to bring unity to this country."  Okay, the second sentence was not actually said.  It was more of an implication of the question.  So, I merely stated that Division... That is their reality and what they are focused on.  Naturally, this will cause even more division.  Because you can not create unity by strengthening your focus on division.  Unity happens when you get everyone to go along with an idea.  You are going to have some people who have trouble with changes in this country.  Then I just summed it up by saying the main point is this:  If you focus on division and speak of division you will only have division because it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If you focus and speak about unity, you will have unity and it becomes self-fulfilling prophecy for you.

Trump said he wanted to make America great again.  Sure, this will require unity.  The trend is toward division.  I see it only getting worse, not better.

 

20 minutes ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

Naturally, when we speak of will... There is much science involved with it too.  Haha.  Okay, back to serious.  I had a man actually say "so, if I want to become a woman, I just think that and boom I am a woman."  (No kidding he really wants to be a woman and this was at my job)  So, I really didn't want to make it more difficult for this guy.  I could tell that something was going on with him.  In fact he has so much "stuff" coming off him he looked like he had been run over by a bus.  Some people are very self-defeating.  So, I said it is easier to think that good things are coming your way only than to try to change your appearance.  There is a lot biologically going on with the human body, much science involved, to change something like that would be to take all of that into consideration.  So, I just emphasised that thinking positively and using positive affirmations daily would make the difference in how things are going for you.

I have no idea why a man would want to be a woman unless it is because he likes to suck dick and feel he can get more dick being a woman.

 

No, "will" is not all powerful.  At any point in time there are certain possibilities and certain impossibilities.  We canno will the impossible and expect to have success.

 

And yes, thinking positively, the "can do" attitude helps a lot.  But still, we can't do the impossible.

 

20 minutes ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

Actually, this was quite random from my perspective.  I tend to enjoy talking about things like Nietzsche, existentialism... How the universe takes a pee.  Not because I think my ideas are great.  People are great when we sit down like fermented fish like this and we savor the flavor.

Yes, exchanging thoughts and ideas actually help us to clarify our own understandings.  The more understandings we have the fewer opinions we need have.  And we must never be afraid to express our understandings.  (Hey, we might be wrong and in need of correction.)

 

20 minutes ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

Funny things mirrors are.  I actually got to thinking about that Nietzsche quote a few days ago.  It was actually because I noticed that sometimes family members even forget we are living in a civilized society.  Hitting the rewind button two years, and spewing many of my ideas about things to family members who are still very staunch liberals would send them into a screaming tirade.  Sound human?  No?  We are not currently living in a time where people openly discuss ideas.  If ideas are threatening, we suppress or intimidate others.(Naturally not talking about myself here.)  Naturally, in the past I had been known to go on tirades as well.  But, this actually opened my eyes to the fact that elsewhere THIS has become the norm.  People ACTUALLY behave that way.  I could use name-calling but what is the point?  Now I just ask questions to get people to think.  That is how that mirror worked.  When it comes to it many family members elsewhere might "sell out" another family member in theory for a very large sum of money.  It sounds like insanity to me.  I would like to actually see an increase in loyalty instead otherwise what is a family if you can not count on them?  That family members believe in an lying pundit like Bill Maher over their own flesh and blood?  That I told them Trump would win over a year in advance and still... The insanity continues because people can't discuss ideas.  That is why Political Correctness has to die.  There is no sanity as long as it still lives.  It became this fire breathing dragon I would love so much to just so murderously kill with no pity or empathy.  Something that seemed so good became an evil and we all have to live with it.

Or even a small sum of money.  Blood can't compete with greed and money.

 

I live in Florida and all my family lives in northern Ohio.  That's good for me.  After my Mom passed on my family fell apart.

 

There are no reasons any more.  Only doing without thinking of the consequences.

 

I don't have much hope for "Make America Great Again".  Too make roadblocks - too much self-interest.

 

[TheWhiteRabbit]

8 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I have no idea why a man would want to be a woman unless it is because he likes to suck dick and feel he can get more dick being a woman.

 

No, "will" is not all powerful.  At any point in time there are certain possibilities and certain impossibilities.  We canno will the impossible and expect to have success.

 

And yes, thinking positively, the "can do" attitude helps a lot.  But still, we can't do the impossible.

I have no idea.  I may disagree with what people do, but I try to help if they ask for help regarding money or life questions.

 

One person can build nanotubes, still another builds buildings, another builds rockets.  One day there will be a person who will be outside the realm of what people see as possible and he will walk among the normal and the poor crowd because it draws no attention.

 

8 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Or even a small sum of money.  Blood can't compete with greed and money.

 

I live in Florida and all my family lives in northern Ohio.  That's good for me.  After my Mom passed on my family fell apart.

 

There are no reasons any more.  Only doing without thinking of the consequences.

 

I don't have much hope for "Make America Great Again".  Too make roadblocks - too much self-interest.

 

 

Yeah, this is really sad.

 

Okay, so last month I had been picking around with the minds of young people... I was finding that they are so full of hope some of them and so optimistic for the future.  The more I thought of it I began to recall how hopeful and optimistic I was when I was young.  The key is that when we experience things we kind of learn either by mistakes that we need to be mindful of certain things.  The key is turning some of that off to an extent.  I said mistakes 2 sentences ago because it is the strength and the negative experiences that create almost a tulpa of fear regarding even some situations.  So, I have been learning to use my experience and turn off a lot of the garbage.  I even feel better as well but this is well something I recently created so to speak.  Feel free if you would like to play with this new toy.  Its not even dangerous and it wont break.

 

The Presidency thing... Pttthhbbbt.  Its not that I do not care anymore.  People need time to get over the fact that each party takes turns with having their president in office for 2 terms.  That is the way it has always been from the beginning of this country.  They said bad things about Regan when I was a kid... People said bad thigs about Bush, Clinton, Bush and even Obama.  People are always going to have opinions of the president like that.

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

I have no idea.  I may disagree with what people do, but I try to help if they ask for help regarding money or life questions.

Yep, as long as they aren't trying to force themselves on us most of us would help if we can.

 

2 hours ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

One person can build nanotubes, still another builds buildings, another builds rockets.  One day there will be a person who will be outside the realm of what people see as possible and he will walk among the normal and the poor crowd because it draws no attention.

I have never tried to draw attention to myself.  I'd rather people just leave me alone so I can live my life the way I want to live it as long as I am harming none.

 

2 hours ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

Okay, so last month I had been picking around with the minds of young people... I was finding that they are so full of hope some of them and so optimistic for the future.  The more I thought of it I began to recall how hopeful and optimistic I was when I was young.  The key is that when we experience things we kind of learn either by mistakes that we need to be mindful of certain things.  The key is turning some of that off to an extent.  I said mistakes 2 sentences ago because it is the strength and the negative experiences that create almost a tulpa of fear regarding even some situations.  So, I have been learning to use my experience and turn off a lot of the garbage.  I even feel better as well but this is well something I recently created so to speak.  Feel free if you would like to play with this new toy.  Its not even dangerous and it wont break.

I have had no personal contact with younger folks so I have no idea what their optimism level is.  I can only compare life of the young today against what life was like for young people when I was young.

 

Yeah, most of my learning was from my own mistakes and decisions.  I really can't blame anyone else and no desire to do so.

 

Fear (except for spiders) never bother me that much to influence my choices.  It probably would have been a good thing if I had a bit more fear but that's in the past and can't be changed.

 

Yes, there are times when out brain gets so full of garbage that we can no longer think straight.  For me that would be time to meditate.

 

Good that you have found a way to deal with the garbage in your life.  I guess we each must find our own way of doing that.  Some people never do and never find the peace of a life without worry.

 

2 hours ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

The Presidency thing... Pttthhbbbt.  Its not that I do not care anymore.  People need time to get over the fact that each party takes turns with having their president in office for 2 terms.  That is the way it has always been from the beginning of this country.  They said bad things about Regan when I was a kid... People said bad thigs about Bush, Clinton, Bush and even Obama.  People are always going to have opinions of the president like that.

Yeah, in the Army we were taught to respect and honor the uniform, not the individual.  I feel the same way about the office of the president.  The position must be honored.  So too the US Constitution.

 

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

The visionary lies to himself, the liar only to others.