Nietzsche Quotes

[rideforever]

On 14/08/2018 at 7:46 PM, silent thunder said:

 

 

Yes but if you are intelligent enough to make these criticisms, you should be intelligent enough to extract the original meaning and intention behind "blasphemy".

Then our intelligence is used for something useful rather than the false empowerment of winning arguments.

 

 

[rideforever]

Following a psychotic breakdown in 1889, at the age of 44 years, he was admitted to the Basel mental asylum and on 18 January 1889 was transferred to the Jena mental asylum. He remained in demented darkness until his death on 25 August 1900.

 

Better to follow people who have solutions.

[Marblehead]

7 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Following a psychotic breakdown in 1889, at the age of 44 years, he was admitted to the Basel mental asylum and on 18 January 1889 was transferred to the Jena mental asylum. He remained in demented darkness until his death on 25 August 1900.

 

Better to follow people who have solutions.

You do know that is incorrect information, don't you?

 

Likely written up by some paranoid Christian.

 

[rideforever]

4 hours ago, Marblehead said:

You do know that is incorrect information, don't you?

Likely written up by some paranoid Christian.

 

No, I don't.
Why do you say it is not correct ?

 

[silent thunder]

sigh...

 

 

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

 

No, I don't.
Why do you say it is not correct ?

 

Because I have seen so many critiques of Nietzsche's writings by Christians who intentionally paint him as being something he never was simply because Nietzsche criticized the Christian moralities of his day.

 

The only translator of Nietzsche I put any faith in is Walter Kaufmann.  All others have horrible biases.  Even Nietzsche's sister, after Nietzsche's death, polluted his notes that became "The Will To Power" because her boyfriend was a Nazi.

 

One can read Nietzsche today and see him talking about what is happening in the USA today regarding politics.  Yes, for the majority of Americans politics has replaced religion.

 

 

Nietzsche was always in ill health even in his teen years.  Yes, he had to be hospitalized a couple times.  He had to move a few times to areas where the climate was less harsh with his physical health.

 

But he was never psychotic and was never in a mental institution.

 

It is suggested that his end days were a result of syphilis.  Europe had no treatment for that during his lifetime.  The disease destroys the organs and then finally the brain.  That is what killed Nietzsche.

 

I consider Nietzsche on par with Chuang Tzu.  Both were sages.  Men of great wisdom.  Chuang Tzu lucked out because there were no Christians in China during his lifetime.

 

[silent thunder]

The depth of Nietzche's suffering seems to me, something of a forge, or a chrysalis that aided in his intense insights, peering into and through the illusory nature of much of human thought, assumption, projection and the paper thin falsity of beliefs.

 

What a gift his writings are to me now... I was raised charismatic christian and it wasn't until I arrived here and started reading some of Marble's sharings on him that my previous assumptions (handed to me by my church) were unfolded.

 

Where I used to assume madness, I now sense deep kinship. 

 

Of course... I'm completely mad as well... and so grateful to have finally begun the unraveling of that pesky previously held belief that there was ever such a thing as 'normal'.

 

Much of Nietzche's work resonates with what I've encountered of Robert Anton Wilson, though Wilson's presentation and general demeanor is much more pleasant and less angsty, as Wilson seems to have not been plagued nearly as harshly by pure physical agony as Nietzche was... and was born in an age when questioning the dominant religious dogma of the day had already been well paved by... well... the likes of Nietzche.

[rideforever]

He is "really interesting" like Robin Wiliams was really interesting.

He is not grounded and comes out with these one liners that have the intelligensia going ooh aah ... but actually the guy did not help himself.   Like many intellectual European nutballs, his intellect is just driven by ego.    He had no transcendence nor peace.

 

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils, because it prolongs the torments of man."

 

What the hell does that mean ?  It's so melodramatic.   "Hope in reality" ... yeah really profound.

 

The torment of man ?   Talk about yourself, it's just you who is tormenting you.

Why don't you put your intelligensia down and do some meditation or dare I say it prayer.
If God is dead bring him back, instead of thinking it's going to fall out of the sky on your lap.

 

I am actually a bit sick of these melodramatic monkeys either intellectual or religious who are just f****ing ungrounded lazy big mouthed gits.

I am no longer impressed.   Get lost.

[silent thunder]

rider my friend... you seem to have that most rare of gifts and to be suffering for it... to always know exactly what you need and want in any given situation and to have the one true bead on 'the truth' is a rare achievement indeed.

 

cheers on your achievement.

 

it's amazing is it not, to lack all doubt of the sum total experience of another's life by reading a few lines they've shared! 

 

how few ever find such treasure and certainty?  how is it then, i wonder... in the solidity of knowing you're absolutely right and right where you should be, with all the answers and truth... you seem so easily upset and tipped into charged emotional states by the ignorance of others?

 

why denigrate those further, who already suffer from ignorance?

 

is this how you fix them? 

 

for myself I find notions of absolute certainty to be the realm of the arrogant ignorant... and of that, I'm absolutely certain...

 

er, wait... oh shit.

 

nevermind

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

He is "really interesting" like Robin Wiliams was really interesting.

He is not grounded and comes out with these one liners that have the intelligensia going ooh aah ... but actually the guy did not help himself.   Like many intellectual European nutballs, his intellect is just driven by ego.    He had no transcendence nor peace.

 

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils, because it prolongs the torments of man."

 

What the hell does that mean ?  It's so melodramatic.   "Hope in reality" ... yeah really profound.

 

The torment of man ?   Talk about yourself, it's just you who is tormenting you.

Why don't you put your intelligensia down and do some meditation or dare I say it prayer.
If God is dead bring him back, instead of thinking it's going to fall out of the sky on your lap.

 

I am actually a bit sick of these melodramatic monkeys either intellectual or religious who are just f****ing ungrounded lazy big mouthed gits.

I am no longer impressed.   Get lost.

Sad you are so closed-minded about this.

 

Obviously you have never read "Thus Spoke Zarathustra".

 

Sure he had ego.  Not as strong as yours, I would guess.

 

Hope, and doing nothing, for a better reality is torturing one's self.  That is very hard to deny.  And to continue to hope and do nothing is true torment.

 

Yeah, hope that one day Jesus will return and he will forgive everyone's sins.  What?

 

So you don't even understand a simple "God is dead" from him.  Surely you have not read Nietzsche but are just repeating what was forced into your brain.  If you had read Nietzsche you would know that Nietzsche was saying that the European Christians had killed the Jewish concept of God.  Yes, the Christians killed God therefore "God is dead."

 

So if you are so sick of reading the quotes I am presenting why do you continue to read them?  So you can have a whipping post for your Christian mentality?  

 

Okay, remain with the herd.  Your choice.  Never question what was taught you when you were young.  After all, those priests all had your best interests in mind.  Just like the Catholic priests who are backholing little boys.  Its in the little boys' best interest to get fucked by a bigot.

 

[Marblehead]

26 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

er, wait... oh shit.

 

nevermind

Better to know you don't know than to think you know when the concepts went right over your head.

 

[ernobe]

15 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Better to know you don't know than to think you know when the concepts went right over your head.

 

 

It's kind of hard to imagine what sort of a bubble these people have been living in for more than a thousand years to imagine that Christiians and what passes for Christian morality has been unimpeachable.  Especially in the realm of politics.  Nietzsche was not only critical of the herd like Christian morality¸ but also of the general state of European aristocratic civilization.  Seeing that both criticisms have a well meaning and reasonable basis in fact, it is not hard to assume that putting both together actually serve to point a way forward for the Christian faith, to undo its wrongs and head in the right direction.   Regardless of what is normally said of his philosophy being irreligious.

[Marblehead]

4 hours ago, ernobe said:

 

It's kind of hard to imagine what sort of a bubble these people have been living in for more than a thousand years to imagine that Christiians and what passes for Christian morality has been unimpeachable.  Especially in the realm of politics.  Nietzsche was not only critical of the herd like Christian morality¸ but also of the general state of European aristocratic civilization.

And even of its music.  That's what caused his friendship with Richard Wagner to spoil.  Nietzsche accused Wagner of being anti-Semitic.

 

4 hours ago, ernobe said:

 Seeing that both criticisms have a well meaning and reasonable basis in fact, it is not hard to assume that putting both together actually serve to point a way forward for the Christian faith, to undo its wrongs and head in the right direction.   Regardless of what is normally said of his philosophy being irreligious.

Nietzsche's father was a Pastor and Nietzsche even started studying to follow in his father's footsteps but Nietzsche just couldn't deal with it.  Likely because he saw too many lies.

 

 

[silent thunder]

Nietzche's experience simply couldn't accomodate the illusory beliefs offered and upheld by the society that he was raised in.  What a painful gift this can be... but such a gift is unequaled.  It's the gift of all gifts to me, to have illusory notions stripped away.

 

It is no good thing to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.  ~RJ Krishnamurti

 

The tao that can be spoken, is not the eternal tao. ~Lao Tzu

 

Nietzche's insights seem to have been born of realization garnered in experiential beingness, not beliefs.  Beliefs to me are merely thoughts that have become conflated with self.

 

Nietzche's experience was the clarion bell ringing and no amount of bullying, threatening, ostracizing, cajoling or ganging up by society was going to unring that bell.  Once the bell has rung, there is no unringing it (even if one desperately wants to). 

 

Woe to anyone whose words shake the beliefs of others though... for such fanaticism is born of those justified in maintaining their ideas of reality that any horrific act is not only condoned, it becomes an obligation.  The attacks on Nietzche call attention to the clarion nature of the power present in the words he shared born of his experience and their affect on others. 

 

Realizations born of experiential awareness seem to shine with their own visceral resonant presence like light.  I have felt this when in close physical proximity to a Sage.  The fog of illusory beliefs, concepts and notions simply dissolve in this presence.  Experience resolves into such simplicity, all illusory notions normally carried around dissolve and realization of the raw potency of simple beingness arises in the absence of the cacophony of maintaining the thoughts and beliefs. 

 

The clarion bell of awareness rings in silent presence like thunder... a thunder that dissipates conceptual notions like sun dissolves fog.

 

This is why I suspect, no amount of cajoling, or bullying ever domesticated him.  His experiential beingness... his presence simply dissolved illusory notions and without our agreeing to notions and beliefs presented to us, they cannot take root in our mind and grow more firm and become mistaken for reality.  The clear, raw presence of beingness.

 

What are beliefs, but thoughts internalized to the point of mistaking them for what is real... for self?  What are thoughts but clouds coming and going in the presence of the clear open sky of abiding presence and awareness?

 

Just because we think something and feel strongly about it and society tells us it's true, doesn't make that thought real, true, or even important.  It's just a thought.

 

beingness is...

 

thoughts, concepts, even heavily invested emotional beliefs can not assail, mark, or impact beingness one iota in my experience.

 

Replacing experiential beingness with notions, concepts, thoughts and beliefs seems as futile to me as trying to drive a nail into the sky, or trying to paint the air.  one cannot touch the other.

 

What greater truth is there than to simply abide, present, here and now?  

 

The pure raw magnificent resonant simplicity of presence can still be overwhelming, even as it emanates supreme contenment and bliss. 

[Marblehead]

Very well written Silent Thunder.  I enjoyed reading it.

 

 

[ernobe]

18 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Nietzsche's father was a Pastor and Nietzsche even started studying to follow in his father's footsteps but Nietzsche just couldn't deal with it.  Likely because he saw too many lies.

 

Some interesting facts there I didn't know.  Thanks for sharing.  Reminds me of going to a Catholic theological seminary here in Costa Rica, before going off on my own into the woods.  I expected to be reading some of the outstanding Christian theologians down the centuries, but instead, a priest would preach and then have us write an essay for homework.   At university I had studied St. Anselm in the philosophy class, but here they had someone sent in from the local public university for a regular philosophy class on the moderns.  I suspect Nietzsche got some of the same rap.

 

[Marblehead]

Yeah, likely Nietzsche was faced with something similar.  The European education was still based in the system created by the Greeks.  I'm sure learning Greek helped Nietzsche a lot.  He often quoted the Greeks.

 

But still, the education system had very strong roots and wasn't speaking to the problems of his day which is what Nietzsche wanted to talk about.

 

You reminded me of my Philosophy 101 course.  It was taught by a Catholic priest.  Any bias there?  You can bet your last dollar on that.  I had already assumed the attitudes of an Atheist at that time.  He gave me a "B" for the course because he couldn't bring me back to his Christian beliefs.

 

 

[silent thunder]

I'm reminded that the Big Bang Theory was created by a Polish Jesuit Priest, Astronomer and Professor of Physics at a Catholic University, Georges Lemaître.  He proposed, theoretically, that the universe was expanding.  Two years later, Hubble observed the effect and the Hubble Constant became widely accepted.

 

For some years the Doppler effect had been observed but it was Lemaître in 1931 who proposed that if the universe was expanding, then projecting backwards would give rise to the "hypothesis of the primeval atom" or the "Cosmic Egg".

 

This became the cornerstone of the Big Bang Theory.  And to Georges, it was an elegant as well as theoretical scientific method for describing the instant god created the manifest universe.

 

Can't say I come to the same projected conclusions/world view as Georges did... but I find it wonderously ironic that one of the cornerstone theories of science was born of Catholic Priest. 

[Marblehead]

Yeah, and after Lemaitre presented his theory Einstein did the math, came to the same conclusion, but rejected it because it conflicted with his religious beliefs that the universe is static.  I think he did later accept it, can't remember for sure.

 

I accept the Big Bang Theory as it is the only logical explanation I have heard.

 

Lemaitre went outside the box for his time.  Nietzsche did the same thing.  Most coloring outside the box is rejected by the establishment.

 

[Marblehead]

Without music, life would be a mistake.

[Swede]

On 21/08/2018 at 3:33 AM, Marblehead said:

The only translator of Nietzsche I put any faith in is Walter Kaufmann. 

__________________

 

I consider Nietzsche on par with Chuang Tzu.  Both were sages.  Men of great wisdom.  

 

 

Any recommendations of a first read of Nietzsche for a novice?

Cheers  

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

 

Any recommendations of a first read of Nietzsche for a novice?

Cheers  

Sure.

 

"Thus Spoke Zarathustra" translated by Walter Kaufmann.  It should be available in most libraries.  It is a novel and easy to read.

 

Basically, this contains the totality of his philosophy.  All his concepts will not be recognizable without having read his others works but those can be read after reading "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" if any further interest in his works have been inspired.

 

 Most of the rest of his works are basically his speaking to one concept at a time and much harder to read.

[Marblehead]

How good bad music and bad reasons sound when we march against an enemy.

[Swede]

On 27/08/2018 at 11:55 PM, Marblehead said:

Sure.

 

"Thus Spoke Zarathustra" translated by Walter Kaufmann.  It should be available in most libraries.  It is a novel and easy to read.

 

 

Thanks. Found a copy on ebay. 15 bucks, can't go wrong. 

 

Interestingly,  did a Google search and there are many opinions about what translation is best. But generally it seems Kaufmann is the preferred non-scholastic version. 

[Marblehead]

6 hours ago, Swede said:

 

Thanks. Found a copy on ebay. 15 bucks, can't go wrong.

Yeah, that was a safe buy.

6 hours ago, Swede said:

Interestingly,  did a Google search and there are many opinions about what translation is best. But generally it seems Kaufmann is the preferred non-scholastic version. 

My opinion was formed on my own based on reading various translators.  That was many years ago and I wouldn't have the slightest idea who to recommend as a second preference.