Editing other's posts in PPF

[小梦想]

.

Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Ilovecoffee]

18 minutes ago, alfheim said:

@小梦想  Why are you editing things into my post I never wrote? What the heck?

[Ilovecoffee]

[Ilovecoffee]

[Ilovecoffee]

Hey Kar3n do you want to pretend nothing happened this time?

 

[alfheim]

On 8/26/2017 at 5:47 AM, Kar3n said:

Everyone remember, the risk of posting in a person's PPD is that it can be edited or hidden even though we ask that folks refrain from editing and to hide posts if they are unwanted in the thread.

Why not limit it to hiding the post? Why needs a random user the ability to edit what I write in a forum and add paragraphs of his liking to it? Creating the impression its what I wrote. Just because he did start the thread? If he doesn't like my posts just let them hide it. Thats more than enough power.

Edited August 29, 2017 by alfheim

[Kar3n]

3 minutes ago, alfheim said:

Why not limit it to hiding the post? Why needs a random user the ability to edit what I write in a forum and add paragraphs of his liking to? Creating the impression its what I wrote. Just because he did start the thread? If he doesn't like my posts just let them hide it. Thats more than enough power.

Like I stated before...

On 8/25/2017 at 8:47 PM, Kar3n said:

Members do have the ability to edit every post in their PPD. I am not seeing malicious intent, after all the posts are now forever out of sight.

 

Everyone remember, the risk of posting in a person's PPD is that it can be edited or hidden even though we ask that folks refrain from editing and to hide posts if they are unwanted in the thread.

 

A PPD is your own little corner of the www, staff does not usually get involved unless absolutely necessary so moderation tools are necessary for clean up.

 

14 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

Hey Kar3n do you want to pretend nothing happened this time?

 

I am not going to read too much into what you are trying to imply with your snide remark, @Ilovecoffee, but I can tell you I am far from a pretender, and if you want to "play" with me, you are barking up the wrong tree today.

 

If you press the edit button, even if you do not touch a word in the post and then click save, it will show it has been edited. We do not track keystrokes and can not tell if the post was altered or not without having seen it beforehand. I do read or skim most everything on the forums, daily and I did not see it before. I do have a husband and children I also need to eat and sleep- there is life outside of TDB.

 

A couple of screen shots I just took, nothing was altered, I just pressed edit and save.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ilovecoffee]

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Edited August 29, 2017 by Ilovecoffee

[Ilovecoffee]

On 8/25/2017 at 11:35 PM, 小梦想 said:

I just checked and only see your own wording. Are you sure something like that happened?

 

Wouldn't be the first time you were caught lying about things.

 

Yes I am, and now so is everyone else

 

 

[Kar3n]

13 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

alfheim,

 

I am not sure if you wrote it or if 小梦想 wrote it, but John did teach to make progress one must be in "actual meditation", and that sitting and breathing is approximately 2% as effective as being in "actual meditation".

 

These are quotes from John himself, given in both Kosta's public work and private teachings. 

 

It is not something we are making up.

@Ilovecoffee, this is NOT a mopai thread and it will not turn into one. If you wish to discuss mopai take it to another thread or send a PM, you can tag members or quote them outside of this thread.

[Chang]

It is a sad fact that every thread involving Ilovecoffee degenerates into pantomime and farce. He sees enemies everywhere and has but one idea in his head - that being a wrong one.

[Kar3n]

Mod Team Notice

 

Let's stay on topic, please.

 

**************

[cold]

2 minutes ago, Kar3n said:

Mod Team Notice

 

Let's stay on topic, please.

 

**************

 

Is that remotely possible?

[alfheim]

16 minutes ago, Kar3n said:

Like I stated before...

So what you are saying is if a normal user (not an admin) adds this whole paragraph to my own writing:

On 8/28/2017 at 6:10 PM, alfheim said:

Well now we know why Mr Coffee is so obsessed with getting into true meditation. Their local dictator is shouting it down at them on a daily basis I guess.

Just goes to show how they add their own interpretation to things and strongly suggest others should do what they do to make progress. Sad state of affairs really when more pie guy is without even realizing it altering their practice material through his own understanding of "teachings".

 

They may say they give the material completely unaltered, but then verbally alter them, giving new instructions that apparently supersede the instructions given by Jim himself. New instructions from the mind of more pie guy.

 

Then no one knows what this normal user has added not even the admins can say what it was? And I don't even get a message after him changing my text? And this is how its supposed to be? I'm not sure what to say about this concept except wow just wow.
Well next time I will start my own thread if I have a question about something in a PPD. Seems ridiculous to me but ok now I know.

 

21 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

alfheim,

 

I am not sure if you wrote it or if 小梦想 wrote it, but John did teach to make progress one must be in "actual meditation", and that sitting and breathing is approximately 2% as effective as being in "actual meditation".

 

These are quotes from John himself, given in both Kosta's public work and private teachings. 

 

It is not something we are making up.

My part was only the question directed at Mudfoot concerning him posting " the statements from MPG that full lotus is 2-3 times more effective ". I asked him if he found that post from MPG on this forum as I wasn't able to find it with the search tool. I just wanted to know how important they consider the full lotus. The rest is from 小梦想

[cold]

9 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Now on topic...

 

I don't see a big deal about editing other people's posts in a PPF. 

 

I see it like this: TDB is an apartment complex.

 

Our PPFs are our own apartments that we are renting from the kindly landlords.

 

If someone comes in and tries to have some fun with us in our homes, they are our homes and we can do as we see fit. Our home, our rules.

 

BUT: if things do get crazy, then the landlords come in and do what they will to keep order and not disturb the rest of the residents/members. 

 

I'm not sure I want somebody to rearrange my furniture, then turn off the lights and leave whilst I am using the loo.

It doesn't seem like much fun to me, on the other hand...

[Kar3n]

11 minutes ago, alfheim said:

So what you are saying is if a normal user (not an admin) adds this whole paragraph to my own writing:

Then no one knows what this normal user has added not even the admins can say what it was? And I don't even get a message after him changing my text? And this is how its supposed to be? I'm not sure what to say about this concept except wow just wow.
Well next time I will start my own thread if I have a question about something in a PPD. Seems ridiculous to me but ok now I know.

 

My part was only the question directed at Mudfoot concerning him posting " the statements from MPG that full lotus is 2-3 times more effective ". I asked him if he found that post from MPG on this forum as I wasn't able to find it with the search tool. I just wanted to know how important they consider the full lotus. The rest is from 小梦想

When something is quoted, on the top right of the quote box there is a grayed out curved arrow. Clicking that arrow will take you to the post on the forums within the original thread.

 

Everyone, when replying within your PPDs, please use the quote function rather than adding replies directly to anothers' post. It gets confusing and causes all sorts mayhem. The idea is that mods do not get involved with PPDs, we would like to keep it that way.

[alfheim]

3 minutes ago, Kar3n said:

When something is quoted, on the top right of the quote box there is a grayed out curved arrow. Clicking that arrow will take you to the post on the forums within the original thread

Sorry it wasn't a quote he made just a statement of him about it being from MPG.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Our PPFs are our own apartments that we are renting from the kindly landlords.

 

If someone comes in and tries to have some fun with us in our homes, they are our homes and we can do as we see fit. Our home, our rules.

 

The example is bad at least in my country one can't just record something I say in his house then edit it to his liking and post in public to claim his edit was what I said. It being his house doesn't change anything there. He can throw me out of his house (hide post equivalent) but the rest doesn't work.

I don't care that much about my account here as I don't represent a linage or similar and users won't remember me as I don't post enough. But just imagine the potential of misuse. A user here creates a PPD to talk bad about a practice. The holder of that lineage hears about it and creates an account to set things straight. The creator then just has to wait until the lineage holder leaves and can change all wording of him to his own liking. And thats how its supposed to work here?

[Ilovecoffee]

3 minutes ago, alfheim said:

Sorry it wasn't a quote he made just a statement of him about it being from MPG.

 

 

The example is bad at least in my country one can't just record something I say in his house then edit it to his liking and post in public to claim his edit was what I said. It being his house doesn't change anything there. He can throw me out of his house (hide post equivalent) but the rest doesn't work.

I don't care that much about my account here as I don't represent a linage or similar and users won't remember me as I don't post enough. But just imagine the potential of misuse. A user here creates a PPD to talk bad about a practice. The holder of that lineage hears about it and creates an account to set things straight. The creator then just has to wait until the lineage holder leaves and can change all wording of him to his own liking. And thats how its supposed to work here?

 

Since I was told not to have further discussion here, I have been replying to you in the MoPai thread:

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/44486-long-men-pai-nei-gong-and-mo-pai/?page=56

 

[thelerner]

21 minutes ago, alfheim said:

. The creator then just has to wait until the lineage holder leaves and can change all wording of him to his own liking. And thats how its supposed to work here?

There is a need for maturity.  PPF's give individuals control of a blog.  Integrity means not changing anothers meaning when quoting them (though I'll often shorten it down for readability).  Integrity is very important, maybe everything on a forum like ours. 

 

Much of whats remembered isn't individual posts, facts, witty arguments etc., instead we're judged on the wholeness of all of our communications.  All our posts; that what sets our reputation here.  No, single post or rebuttals.  How we carry ourselves, how people view our maturity is the single most important thing we have here.

 

Things that are anti- maturity are redundant spamming, not letting things go, insults, getting into constant fights; the same fight over and over.  Be mature, move on, share, be polite and respectful.  More Pie Guy/Panda/Thunder Gooch had a site, it was filled with dozens of Fuck you's and graphic insults to people here.  The point of this forum is to be his opposite.  

 

 

 

[cold]

Mine was a poor attempt to convey the potential for abuse

 

 

36 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

What do you mean? Shall I clarify?

 

My PPF is my apartment. If someone has posted ignoble things, I should theoretically be able to edit it--akin to someone arranging the refrigerator magnets to say, "I love your butt. Let me kiss it" and me coming back to see it, then deciding I don't want it to say that, I'll have it say, "I like big butts and I can not lie". 

 

If you are saying that you don't like someone rearranging the furniture in your apartment or making the fridge magnets say something you disagree with or want to have fun with, then that's fine, although it should be a point of consideration if you come into my apartment that that possibility exists, just like I will have to be careful when I visit yours. 

 

I too shall try to clarify.

 

I am fine with some one having the right and or ability to remove or delete my comments is their in their personal practice journal.

After all it is theirs.

 

I would assume posting publicly on an internet form one is inviting comments from other members of said forum, why else would one post?

 

But that they would be able to edit in part my comments and in doing so possibly changing the intent of my comments to suit their agenda seems a bit dishonest.

 

thelearner speaks well of integrity...

 

5 minutes ago, thelerner said:

There is a need for maturity.  PPF's give individuals control of a blog.  Integrity means not changing anothers meaning when quoting them (though I'll often shorten it down for readability).  Integrity is very important, maybe everything on a forum like ours. 

 

Much of whats remembered isn't individual posts, facts, witty arguments etc., instead we're judged on the wholeness of all of our communications.  All our posts; that what sets our reputation here.  No, single post or rebuttals.  How we carry ourselves, how people view our maturity is the single most important thing we have here.

 

Things that are anti- maturity are redundant spamming, not letting things go, insults, getting into constant fights; the same fight over and over.  Be mature, move on, share, be polite and respectful.  More Pie Guy/Panda/Thunder Gooch had a site, it was filled with dozens of Fuck you's and graphic insults to people here.  The point of this forum is to be his opposite.  

 

 

 

 

[Zhongyongdaoist]

What this demonstrates is that PPF owners cannot edit someone else's post without leaving their signiture:

 

2 hours ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

And that the editing signature will be that of the last editor.  While I could only guess as to why 小梦想 would wish to leave his signature, it might be that he wished to show that there is no way to edit a post without someone knowing it.  Now I can see the  ILovecoffee hidden posts in the PPF about which he started this thread, and the only edits listed there are those of ILovecoffee, which makes sense because he claims that after he discovered the edits he edited again, thus erasing any evidence of tampering.  Unfortunately this leaves us with a claim which cannot be investigated because the evidence that it did take place has been erased and the matter degenerates into Ilovecoffiee's word against 小梦想's word, something which we can neither investigate nor adjudicate, so please if you wish to raise an issue for us, don't erase the evidence, otherwise you are just wasting our time.  This also solves the problem raised here:

 

1 hour ago, alfheim said:

I don't care that much about my account here as I don't represent a linage or similar and users won't remember me as I don't post enough. But just imagine the potential of misuse. A user here creates a PPD to talk bad about a practice. The holder of that lineage hears about it and creates an account to set things straight. The creator then just has to wait until the lineage holder leaves and can change all wording of him to his own liking. And thats how its supposed to work here?  (Emphasis added, ZYd)

 

No one can fool with a anyone's post without it being obvious, and thus even a regular member's posts are safe, much less a lineage holder's posts, because the person who attempts to disrupt them, points a finger at themselves.

 

So maybe 小梦想 did this this just to see what what would happen.  Obviously it was noticed very quickly, and brought to Mod attention.

 

Zhongyongdaoist, Mod

 

 

 

Edited: for to simplify some passages.

[alfheim]

28 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Integrity means not changing anothers meaning when quoting them (though I'll often shorten it down for readability).  Integrity is very important, maybe everything on a forum like ours. 

 

Quotes are in general considered as being edited to a certain degree by the user quoting as you say if just to cut down the length. But the important difference is when someone quotes a user its always possible to reread the original and check what he really wrote. For PPF even admins can't determine what I wrote and what was added by another user. With such a system there is zero integrity.

 

 

[Kar3n]

Here are the rules for Moderating your PPD.

 

On 6/20/2014 at 6:48 PM, dawei said:

Personal Practice Discussion (PPD):

The PPD is meant to provide a member the maximum amount of control in a dedicate and personal section. The member is expected to utilize the tools to control their PPD. The mods should not be expected to get involved unless there is a clear breach and violation of the forum rules. If a member violates the ToS (insults, etc) then we will address the situation in the usual way. If it's just disagreement that you'd rather not have in your PPD, it's up to you to deal with.

 

Moderator of the PPD:

When the PPD is setup, a 'moderator' is assigned with certain permissions. It just so happens that what is done is the member is setup as the 'moderator'. Thus, this is an area where a member has additional permissions.

 

Basic Tools:

- Edit Title (this appears to not be in the original permissions but I have added it to the protocol)

- Pin / Unpin

- Lock / Unlock

- Hide / Unhide posts

- Delete posts

- Set topics and/or posts as visible / invisible

 

 

Tools to assist the member's control over their PPD:

1. PM conversation

- A member has the ability to block another member from sending you pm's.

2. Ignore List: Put the member on your "ignore" list, but that won't stop others from seeing that member's post and dialoging with them... so it may be more useful in the open parts of TTBs.

3. Hide posts: This is useful if you want to keep some history of a problem. You can report the posts to mods (so we can see it even if hidden), or you want to keep them for your own use.

4. Delete posts: This is resolute and effective but if you do that you won't be able to share that post with the mods.

 

5. Asking another member to stop posting in your PPD: If you want to notify members that you'd rather not have them post in your PPD, it's up to you if how you choose to do that (but starting dialog carries the risk of prompting continued dialog).

 

6. Avoid communication with another member: If you don't want someone to post in your PPD, then don't answer their posts, except if you are asking them or telling them you are going to not permit their posting in your PPD; Any comment beyond one post to them may only prompt more dialog. It's a common and understandable mistake that only makes things worse.

 

Banning member/s from your PPD:

 

The mod team cannot ban members from your PPD... but you can effectively do the same thing simply by utilizing the above tools.

 

 

If a Member is missing one of the above permissions and wants it, let us know here.

 

 

 

 

Member appreciation:

Zhongyongdaoist asked for an explanation of moderator power over a PPD.

 

 

 

[thelerner]

22 minutes ago, alfheim said:

 

Quotes are in general considered as being edited to a certain degree by the user quoting as you say if just to cut down the length. But the important difference is when someone quotes a user its always possible to reread the original and check what he really wrote. For PPF even admins can't determine what I wrote and what was added by another user. With such a system there is zero integrity.

 

 

I think it says a alot about members that this so very rarely comes up.  Mis-quoting or malicious ones will happen, probably best handled by bringing it to the up publicly.  Again, integrity is our best defense. 

 

In most situations forumwise, our worst fears and problems end up quickly shuffling down the flow of pages, lost and forgotten.  As long we don't keep bringing things up repeatedly, our great thoughts and foibles and bitterest arguments, are gone within days. 

 

With the smallest amount of patience, we are done with them, unless we keep bringing them up.  Short of leaving the forum because it has 'zero integrity', we can stop reading the aggravating threads (excellent), put people on ignore (good) or leave the frickin site for a week or two, knowing it'll be a different when we get back (excellent).

 

[alfheim]

11 minutes ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

So maybe 小梦想 did this this just to see what what would happen. 

He could have sent me a pm concerning it I wouldn't have minded to be guinea pig if I knew about it. The next option would have been to comment on doing so in the thread for everyone to see. The third option would have been to just hit save without adding his text. The fourth option would have been to add something like "this is a test".

But its not even about this specific case or if he had a reason or if it was just an accident. The whole idea of allowing normal users to edit every post with the label of other users is backwards. Just let them hide posts that's enough to keep threads clean.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

What this demonstrates is that PPF owners cannot edit someone else's post without leaving their signiture:

 

True but how many do you believe will read my post and
1.see the small edit at the bottom isn't mine
2.make the conclusion from that most of the text in my post must be not from me