Fighting multiple opponents

[Hancock]

There's some advice I'd like on self defense against a group of people wanting to fight versus one person.

 

Given the escalation of events in the World, an the crime rate of one new area I plan to move too, I'd like tips on self defense versus a gang, or opponents that fight as a group. Lots of gang murders, violence, racially motivated crime, etc. I'd like to prepare as best as I can.

 

An cause the USA being how things are now,id like to have some idea of what to do during a riot or something I'd like to get out as quick as possible, but may be attacked for whatever reason an would like to know how to disable multiple attackers so I can move on to a safe distance from the riot. Just in case I find myself in that situation.

 

Plus I've been jumped before, but my body size has been my advantage an disadvantage. I'd like better preparation, so please advise.

 

 

 

P.s.

I wasn't sure where to post this, so I posted it under Group. 

 

Disclaimer, Martial arts should not be used to enlarge your ego, to assault or bully anyone. I do not recommend using martial art unless training or protecting someone, or self defense, or guess you're a professional mma fighter or martial arts teacher or some other appropriate usage. Knowing how to use martial technique is a responsibility that should be treated with respect like you would a loaded gun. Ok so I've discussed warnings an precautions.

[Taomeow]

 

[Hancock]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

Awesome song, I like Thriller too. That could be the theme song for this thread. Lol

 

But hey Seriously, does anyone have a response to the topic in a helpful nonjoking way?

 

I'm very serious about this, so if people who read this could hold on the jokes in this thread, an dont comment unless you are being helpful by answering the question or adding constructively I'd appreciate it.

 

I'm stating this cause I know people like to joke, but in this thread I started I am saying out of respect just don't here, so I can learn something useful. I'm not trying to be a douche, I just am after serious an helpful answers an don't want to search 10 joke or opinionated but unhelpful replies, before I find a useful one. 

 

I mean no offense, an enjoy humor as much as the next guy. But as they say, there's a time to joke an a time to be serious. This is one I'm asking people replying to be serious.

 

That last thread, mopai group I started had 15 useful replies out if over a 1000 posts. I'm trying to knip that in the bud with this one. However if you have a good pun, joke, etc you want to post. Then I invite you to message it to me personally an we can share the laugh together. Just let's not do it here.

 

An I realize some people might try to antagonize or bullshit, let's avoid that too. 

 

Lol with the "code of conduct" I asked for, I'm going to be surprised if I get any replies at all. Anyhow, thanks for respecting my "code of conduct" in this thread. An for any an all helpful advice anyone posts here.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Hancock

[oak]

 

[9th]

 

[Kar3n]

Look into Krav Maga and practice your running skills.

 

I am moving this to the rabbit hole. Group studies is for in-depth study and analyzing literary works or philosophical discussion.

[Starjumper]

Bagua is good for multiple opponents, and my art as well, and we have practiced this a bit.  More than one person will often get in each other's way so that actually gives you an advantage.

 

The only advice I can offer in writing as to techniques is something like this.  If you are confronted by a group of people who are standing relatively close together, and untrained people will stand like this, then you can duck down, bending over at the waist, and blast right through them.  This is actually easier with a larger group, like a mob, and more difficult with only two or three, if it's ten people it's a piece of cake.  If you rush them, head down, the people further back won't even see you coming, and if you're a bigger person it's easy to blast through to the other side and then run away.  Some people in front will see you coming but they will never expect someone to rush them as a group so it will take them by surprise and you will be able to get through.  The important point is to keep your weight low so they can't deflect you and do it suddenly and go as fast as you can. In the process you may also knock down some of the ones that are behind the leaders.   The scenario where I wouldn't want to do this is if one or two guys in the front of the group have knives.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Starjumper

[Brian]

Don't go to riots.

 

TaoMeow gave you the right answer.  Kar3n did, too.

And 9th.

 

Actually, you've gotten lots of good and serious advice.

 

Don't go there. If you find yourself there, run.  If you have to fight for your life, make sure the other guy is, too (krav maga is brutal).  A gun is good.  Bagua is designed for multiple assailants (but you need to study it before you move into a bad neighborhood...)

 

I would add a few thoughts of my own.  The best way to keep from losing a fight is to not have one. (Personally, I haven't lost a fight since I was 14, and that one was when I was jumped in a hallway by six who told me it was because of the color of my skin. I also haven't been in a fight since I was 21, and that time I was jumped in a parking lot by four, two of whom were taken to the hospital.) Think about improvised weapons, both using them and defending against them. Keep moving! Stay on your feet, especially with multiple assailants or the possibility of someone else stepping in -- the world's best BJJ takedown is suicide if someone is there to stomp your head.  Final thought would be, don't wield a weapon unless you are truly prepared to use it.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Brian

[thelerner]

Here's a little secret on how to get multiple opponents to not want to fight.  One of my old Karate buddies always lived in so-so parts of town.  Playing the game of buying 3 flats, renting them out so he'd live free and make enough to buy another in a better neighborhood.  The math failed when his mother went to live with him.

 

Anyhow, my friend, big guy, navy guy, years of Karate, always said this is his best self protection-   he always owned at least two dogs, like German Shepards, Japanese Akitas, or mixed breeds, all medium to large, smart working breeds that loved him and his family but tended to stare down others.   There you have it, walk two large guard/worker breeds and most people will leave you alone. 

 

In a rough world, sometimes inhuman help with sharp teeth and keen senses are just what you need to avoid a fight.  And he did.  So did his daughter who was a little beast master, now in college.  Course there's a lot of money and time in training, but there's love and companionship too. 

[Chang]

1 hour ago, Brian said:

Don't go to riots.

 

TaoMeow gave you the right answer.  Kar3n did, too.

And 9th.

 

Actually, you've gotten lots of good and serious advice.

 

Don't go there. If you find yourself there, run.  If you have to fight for your life, make sure the other guy is, too (krav maga is brutal).  A gun is good.  Bagua is designed for multiple assailants (but you need to study it before you move into a bad neighborhood...)

 

I would add a few thoughts of my own.  The best way to keep from losing a fight is to not have one. (Personally, I haven't lost a fight since I was 14, and that one was when I was jumped in a hallway by six who told me it was because of the color of my skin. I also haven't been in a fight since I was 21, and that time I was jumped in a parking lot by four, two of whom were taken to the hospital.) Think about improvised weapons, both using them and defending against them. Keep moving! Stay on your feet, especially with multiple assailants or the possibility of someone else stepping in -- the world's best BJJ takedown is suicide if someone is there to stomp your head.  Final thought would be, don't wield a weapon unless you are truly prepared to use it.

 

First class advice  to which little can be added.

 

Awareness of your surroundings comes first. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is never good. Some people have no sense for trouble and danger and the Casualty Departments are full of them, especially on Friday and Saturday nights.

 

Walk or run away from trouble and danger if you can for that is by far the simplest method of self defence. Again there is no shortage of those who are simply blind to danger and do not see it coming until it is too late. This tends to be true for all kinds of trouble - not just the violent kind.

 

If you do find yourself in a dangerous situation and you are not in a position to walk or run away then you must give the appearance of supreme confidence. Attackers will generally only pick on those whom they consider easy victims as only the mentally deranged would attack someone who is sure to give them a good hiding.This is why such people often work in gangs as it provides them with safety in numbers. Even those who have strength in numbers will still seek easy victims, those under the influence of drink and drugs being favourites. It has been said that the only safe place to get drunk is in the safety of your own home and there is much truth in this.

 

I believe that it was Morihei Ueshiba who said that fighting multiple attackers is the same as fighting one. This would be true for the supreme martial artist but is little use to the novice or to those who know nothing of martial arts.

 

In such a situation the circling and spiralling movements of Bagua or Aikido are of the most use as whilst dealing with one attacker you are using them as a shield to protect yourself from the others. The person who can accomplish this has reached a high level of achievement.

 

This is the exact opposite from the sort of group attacks you see in the world of Hollywood where the group kindly attacks our hero one at a time. Obviously this makes for better choreography and the hero is better able to show off his moves. Alas it only occurs in the world of make believe.

 

 

[Brian]

Two questions which are worth considering upon entering any new situation or environment -- how might I escape and how might I defend myself.  Part of this is a threat analysis.

 

"Listening" is all-encompassing, and that includes situational awareness.

[cold]

An ounce of prevention beats a pound of whoop ass handily!

 

1. Avoid crowds.

2. Avoid places which serve alcohol.

3. When out in public do so in the company of a big dog.

4. Carry a large dagger disguised as a walking staff (but be prepared to use any weapon you deploy).

 

I lived in a rough neighborhood and my canine of choice was an Akita Shepard mix (picture Cujo) named Tanya.

As gentle as could be! Because just one look was all it took.

Neighbors would want to "borrow" Tanya to prevent problems, defuse situations.

Loud party? Knock on door with Tanya. Party would quite down quickly.

People peeing in public? Walk Tanya in that area, people tend to move along quickly.

 

Does your dog bite ? My reply was "Always on command and sometimes not on command but because of provocation, was always my answer. In the ten years we were together she never bit a person. She knocked a few people down though. One hundred and twenty pounds of muscle and bone was proof of the bigger they are the harder they fall.

 

Yup, walking calmly in awareness with a big stick and a big dog and avoiding closing time whenever possible, worked for me!

[Starjumper]

These are a couple of pages I have saved in my bookmarks.

 

Situational awareness

 

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2015/02/05/how-to-develop-the-situational-awareness-of-jason-bourne/

 

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2015/11/30/what-to-do-in-an-active-shooter-situation/

Edited August 27, 2017 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

My chi kung teacher sometimes used a walking cane although he didn't need it for walking.  The handle was a solid brass duck's head, the beak was sharp and the head was heavy.  He hollowed out the cane end epoxied in a steel rod so that it wouldn't break.  It would be a devastating weapon.

 

He also always wore a belt with a big heavy buckle which he could use as a weapon.

 

Also, the fingernails on his little fingers were sharpened so that he could cut people's eyes.  Some people would also put poison on these sharpened fingernails so that they could scratch people.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Starjumper

[Hancock]

5 hours ago, Kar3n said:

Look into Krav Maga and practice your running skills.

 

I am moving this to the rabbit hole. Group studies is for in-depth study and analyzing literary works or philosophical discussion.

Much appreciated, I didn't know where to post martial related stuff now I do. 

I will look into krav maga techniques. Thanks very much Kar3n.

 

5 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Baguazhang is designed for fighting as many as 8 opponents. Wing Chun is also good. Any Filipino or Indonesian style like Kali or Silat.

I'm currently learning some winging chun techniques. Turns out my neighbor saw me practicing in the backyard, an is an old school wing chun instructor who's offered to teach me while I'm still here, before the move. I will definitely look into baguazhang. Thank you.

4 hours ago, Starjumper said:

Bagua is good for multiple opponents, and my art as well, and we have practiced this a bit.  More than one person will often get in each other's way so that actually gives you an advantage.

 

The only advice I can offer in writing as to techniques is something like this.  If you are confronted by a group of people who are standing relatively close together, and untrained people will stand like this, then you can duck down, bending over at the waist, and blast right through them.  This is actually easier with a larger group, like a mob, and more difficult with only two or three, if it's ten people it's a piece of cake.  If you rush them, head down, the people further back won't even see you coming, and if you're a bigger person it's easy to blast through to the other side and then run away.  Some people in front will see you coming but they will never expect someone to rush them as a group so it will take them by surprise and you will be able to get through.  The important point is to keep your weight low so they can't deflect you and do it suddenly and go as fast as you can. In the process you may also knock down some of the ones that are behind the leaders.   The scenario where I wouldn't want to do this is if one or two guys in the front of the group have knives.

Thank you.

3 hours ago, thelerner said:

Here's a little secret on how to get multiple opponents to not want to fight.  One of my old Karate buddies always lived in so-so parts of town.  Playing the game of buying 3 flats, renting them out so he'd live free and make enough to buy another in a better neighborhood.  The math failed when his mother went to live with him.

 

Anyhow, my friend, big guy, navy guy, years of Karate, always said this is his best self protection-   he always owned at least two dogs, like German Shepards, Japanese Akitas, or mixed breeds, all medium to large, smart working breeds that loved him and his family but tended to stare down others.   There you have it, walk two large guard/worker breeds and most people will leave you alone. 

 

In a rough world, sometimes inhuman help with sharp teeth and keen senses are just what you need to avoid a fight.  And he did.  So did his daughter who was a little beast master, now in college.  Course there's a lot of money and time in training, but there's love and companionship too. 

I appreciate this advice. It is currently not an option for me to own a pet, however that is a good way to deter would be issues I had not thought of. Fresh perspective, thanks thelerner.

 

2 hours ago, Chang said:

 

First class advice  to which little can be added.

 

Awareness of your surroundings comes first. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is never good. Some people have no sense for trouble and danger and the Casualty Departments are full of them, especially on Friday and Saturday nights.

 

Walk or run away from trouble and danger if you can for that is by far the simplest method of self defence. Again there is no shortage of those who are simply blind to danger and do not see it coming until it is too late. This tends to be true for all kinds of trouble - not just the violent kind.

 

If you do find yourself in a dangerous situation and you are not in a position to walk or run away then you must give the appearance of supreme confidence. Attackers will generally only pick on those whom they consider easy victims as only the mentally deranged would attack someone who is sure to give them a good hiding.This is why such people often work in gangs as it provides them with safety in numbers. Even those who have strength in numbers will still seek easy victims, those under the influence of drink and drugs being favourites. It has been said that the only safe place to get drunk is in the safety of your own home and there is much truth in this.

 

I believe that it was Morihei Ueshiba who said that fighting multiple attackers is the same as fighting one. This would be true for the supreme martial artist but is little use to the novice or to those who know nothing of martial arts.

 

In such a situation the circling and spiralling movements of Bagua or Aikido are of the most use as whilst dealing with one attacker you are using them as a shield to protect yourself from the others. The person who can accomplish this has reached a high level of achievement.

 

This is the exact opposite from the sort of group attacks you see in the world of Hollywood where the group kindly attacks our hero one at a time. Obviously this makes for better choreography and the hero is better able to show off his moves. Alas it only occurs in the world of make believe.

 

 

I personally don't want to escalate things by using a gun, though I did consider it. If I use one or they found out I had one, then it'd be just matter of timing before they just shot first. Avoidance is definitely a good tactic.

That's 3votes for Bagua, definitely going to look into this art. Alright Thank you for your input.

45 minutes ago, cold said:

An ounce of prevention beats a pound of whoop ass handily!

 

1. Avoid crowds.

2. Avoid places which serve alcohol.

3. When out in public do so in the company of a big dog.

4. Carry a large dagger disguised as a walking staff (but be prepared to use any weapon you deploy).

 

I lived in a rough neighborhood and my canine of choice was an Akita Shepard mix (picture Cujo) named Tanya.

As gentle as could be! Because just one look was all it took.

Neighbors would want to "borrow" Tanya to prevent problems, defuse situations.

Loud party? Knock on door with Tanya. Party would quite down quickly.

People peeing in public? Walk Tanya in that area, people tend to move along quickly.

 

Does your dog bite ? My reply was "Always on command and sometimes not on command but because of provocation, was always my answer. In the ten years we were together she never bit a person. She knocked a few people down though. One hundred and twenty pounds of muscle and bone was proof of the bigger they are the harder they fall.

 

Yup, walking calmly in awareness with a big stick and a big dog and avoiding closing time whenever possible, worked for me!

Hidden weapon might be something to look into. I walk with a cane right now so that's something. Thank you.

 

Thanks to everyone who responded.

 

I'm saving videos and links an reading them. Again your direct focus on what was asked has been extremely helpful. If you guys want to joke or whatever cut loose now, cause I've got enough helpful materials from you all that I can. Focus on seriously. 

 

[Kar3n]

2 minutes ago, Hancock said:

Much appreciated, I didn't know where to post martial related stuff now I do. 

I will look into krav maga techniques. Thanks very much Kar3n.

No problem.

 

I moved it because you are asking for advice/suggestions on protection and it is not specific to any Daoist practice or system.

[thelerner]

Quickie ideas, carrying mace. Note experts say  buy 2, experiment with one. How it's triggered, it's range and type of spray. Also how to quickly access it. 

 

Like the martial arts, a technique not practiced a thousand times and under pressure is worthless. 

 

I often carry a cheap tactical pen.  Longer, tougher, pointier then a normal one. The tungsten tip breaks glass.  Otherwise not a great weapon, but easily pocketed and it writes well especially with the space pen refill I put in. Thus I can defend & write in outer space. 

 

In reality, security is an illusion. The list of things that can kill or hurt us is damn near infinite. Yet we live. Our chances of finishing out this week look excellent too. So enjoy it. Beyond simple preparation, worry is a waste of time. 

 

I try to be ever vigilant, but never afraid. 

[Taomeow]

I am reminded of the story of Bobby Leach, the first man (and the second person) to survive the fall down the Niagara waterfall (in a barrel).  He later died from slipping on an orange peel in the street.  

 

There's dangers you can't prepare for, but then there's dangers you get punished for ignoring.  A protagonist in one of my favorite authors' novels gets shot because he was -- well, inundated with the overall weakness of his life, his situation, his lack of will or wisdom or luck to change it.  "With all of my miserable existence I constituted a tempting target for a misfortune.  It didn't hesitate to accept the invitation."  

 

So my advice would be, don't try to prepare for something very specific like being jumped by multiple attackers (unless it's a realistic everyday possibility in your life, e.g. if you are a soldier in the enemy territory).  Instead, try to determine where the weak spots in your overall existence are, and invest some awareness and some remedial action into trying to fix that.

 

My own experience:  from thinking, whenever I would see examples of strong, courageous, physically and emotionally competent women, "I wish I was strong like that" to undertaking things conductive to the state of affairs I wished for myself.  Determine what you admire, then undertake learning how to be that. 

 

Caveat: don't cheat.  People bursting with self-admiration who are not admired by anyone who knows them well enough should not be chosen as role models.  Chose people who are admired the more the better you know them.  Don't fake it.  Be it or don't be it, but don't make-believe it to impress/fool others -- impress/convince yourself.  Then multiple attackers will be convinced too -- or at least your chances of convincing them to give you a wide berth may be drastically improved. 

 

Good luck!      

Edited August 28, 2017 by Taomeow
typo

[Nungali]

15 hours ago, Hancock said:

There's some advice I'd like on self defense against a group of people wanting to fight versus one person.

 

Given the escalation of events in the World, an the crime rate of one new area I plan to move too, I'd like tips on self defense versus a gang, or opponents that fight as a group. Lots of gang murders, violence, racially motivated crime, etc. I'd like to prepare as best as I can.

 

An cause the USA being how things are now,id like to have some idea of what to do during a riot or something I'd like to get out as quick as possible, but may be attacked for whatever reason an would like to know how to disable multiple attackers so I can move on to a safe distance from the riot. Just in case I find myself in that situation.

 

Plus I've been jumped before, but my body size has been my advantage an disadvantage. I'd like better preparation, so please advise.

 

 

 

P.s.

I wasn't sure where to post this, so I posted it under Group. 

 

Disclaimer, Martial arts should not be used to enlarge your ego, to assault or bully anyone. I do not recommend using martial art unless training or protecting someone, or self defense, or guess you're a professional mma fighter or martial arts teacher or some other appropriate usage. Knowing how to use martial technique is a responsibility that should be treated with respect like you would a loaded gun. Ok so I've discussed warnings an precautions.

 

Interesting topic.  I studied and practiced it a bit .

 

Also interestingly, it was a topic of conversation yesterday, a friend visited who was recently in Germany, he saw a 5 on 1 fight , as he said, between a 'little Pommy  soccer rioter' and  'German bikers' .   Don't know what started it, but the Pommie got surrounded, so he king hit the first one and started dancing around singing ;  " Two word wars and one world cup - do-dar, do dar ... "   

(I guess there the plan was to enrage them into wildly attacking - often easier to deal with ) ,  then two grabbed his arms and tried to pull them out so another could wack him; he jerked left and right delivering two head buts, one bloody nose, one split temple, and kicked the other attacking in the nuts ... then he only had one more to deal with .

 

Like anything, the most proficient are the most experienced. So, unless you gonna take up soccer rioting ...

 

In my training ( which has not been in a real situation but practicing simulations ) here are the basic important things ;

 

Keep  you 'spherical awareness' switched on, and always keep scanning the others and the environment ( for things to use to your advantage or against your advantage - also there could be further assailants hiding or watching.

 

Always move towards the outside of the  group,  via getting around or behind the first attacker. If it stalls, take the initiative and you go for the weak link and break through.   Don't assume they don't have concealed weapons.

 

Do not go to ground !  Keep moving and turning.  Always aim to move towards the outside of the group.

 

If you can get a lock on, or a throw, throw them into the others. If you are able to control someone,  turn and use them as a shield from the others.

 

Use everything at your disposal .

 

Be prepared  ( a guy I know has 'going out' shoes ; innocent looking moccasins , but with a steel capped toe ) .

 

I would post a vid of some Aikido randori .... but frankly I have never seen any but the  badly done ....  some really badly done !

However by watching some of them, you can get some of these principles.

 

( Eg, one time in class, I was dealing with two guys at once; I had one in a  stranding one handed wrist lock and was controlling him, a second had been thrown to the floor, towards a third, to block his entry, and before I could turn and push the wristlock guy into the fourth guy, the fourth jumped on my back, so I just, went down and he slipped over and landed on the guy on the ground, causing a little injury to both .

 

teacher freaked and was  " No no no stop ! "  and admonished the guy that jumped me ; " Don't monster people ! Give them a chance to react and do a technique."

 

   WTF ?   

 

 and that's why Aikido randori looks so 'orchestrated !      I offered, instead, to the guy that tried to jump me ;  " Rather ,  you, don't do something so reckless ! or you are libel to get injured, do not attack someone without being aware of what could happen to you or where you might end up ! "

 

anyway ... for whatever it is worth ..... some practice of some type is better than none, I suppose .

 

 

 

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Starjumper said:

Bagua is good for multiple opponents, and my art as well, and we have practiced this a bit.  More than one person will often get in each other's way so that actually gives you an advantage.

 

Only so many people can surround you and be within striking range .

 

 

9 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

The only advice I can offer in writing as to techniques is something like this.  If you are confronted by a group of people who are standing relatively close together, and untrained people will stand like this, then you can duck down, bending over at the waist, and blast right through them.  This is actually easier with a larger group, like a mob, and more difficult with only two or three, if it's ten people it's a piece of cake.  If you rush them, head down, the people further back won't even see you coming, and if you're a bigger person it's easy to blast through to the other side and then run away.  Some people in front will see you coming but they will never expect someone to rush them as a group so it will take them by surprise and you will be able to get through.  The important point is to keep your weight low so they can't deflect you and do it suddenly and go as fast as you can. In the process you may also knock down some of the ones that are behind the leaders.   The scenario where I wouldn't want to do this is if one or two guys in the front of the group have knives.

 

Friend described 'Pommie soccer rioter' as a 'bunched up cannonball  '  .  

 

Errrrm     ... always   assume someone might have a knife  ! 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Chang said:

 

First class advice  to which little can be added.

 

Awareness of your surroundings comes first. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is never good. Some people have no sense for trouble and danger and the Casualty Departments are full of them, especially on Friday and Saturday nights.

 

Walk or run away from trouble and danger if you can for that is by far the simplest method of self defence. Again there is no shortage of those who are simply blind to danger and do not see it coming until it is too late. This tends to be true for all kinds of trouble - not just the violent kind.

 

Trouble is, when everyone 'walks away'   that allows crud to continue. I stopped a fight in the middle of a large busy intersection, they were fighting on the road, cars stopped all around, a truck came around corner, nearly ran over guys head ! and they continued ! about 50 people were sitting there dumb, doing nothing !   Someone could have got killed !

 

 

7 hours ago, Chang said:

 

If you do find yourself in a dangerous situation and you are not in a position to walk or run away then you must give the appearance of supreme confidence.

 

Yes,  that stopped the aggressor; as I approached and yelled at him to "settle down: he looked in my direction, that allowed the beatee to get up and half escape. But the older bigger guy grabbed him at his car door and started beating on him again, still no one does anything, except his GF who is hysterically screaming.  So I  " Right then ! "  and walked over, the guy turned to face me, allowing the other to get in car and escape.  I didn't say anything but 'looked' at him and thought (in my best Bene Gesserit ' internal voice' ;    I would not try anything , if I was you . He faulted took a step backwards, a few more then ran to his car and took of .

 

 

7 hours ago, Chang said:

 

 

 

Attackers will generally only pick on those whom they consider easy victims as only the mentally deranged would attack someone who is sure to give them a good hiding.This is why such people often work in gangs as it provides them with safety in numbers. Even those who have strength in numbers will still seek easy victims, those under the influence of drink and drugs being favourites. It has been said that the only safe place to get drunk is in the safety of your own home and there is much truth in this.

 

I believe that it was Morihei Ueshiba who said that fighting multiple attackers is the same as fighting one. This would be true for the supreme martial artist but is little use to the novice or to those who know nothing of martial arts.

 

He must have been 'off chops' on sake that day !  Of course it isn't the  same .   It might be the same for Ueshiba ... who goit used to just looking at his students or wagging a finger and watching them 'take a roll' ,

 

Seriously !   Just watch some vids of him doing randori .

 

7 hours ago, Chang said:

 

In such a situation the circling and spiralling movements of Bagua or Aikido are of the most use as whilst dealing with one attacker you are using them as a shield to protect yourself from the others. The person who can accomplish this has reached a high level of achievement.

 

In a way. but dancers can do it,  military drills, marching girls.....  a good football player senses the play as if he was watching it from above .  Bruce Lee claimed to be able to watch his own fights, while they happened, from above, and know what to do next in the fight.   yet some can only see whats under their nose and in front of their face .

 

7 hours ago, Chang said:

 

This is the exact opposite from the sort of group attacks you see in the world of Hollywood where the group kindly attacks our hero one at a time. Obviously this makes for better choreography and the hero is better able to show off his moves. Alas it only occurs in the world of make believe.

 

 

 

 

and randori    

[Michael Sternbach]

My Kenpo teacher was working as a bodyguard in his younger years and got involved in many fights, including situations with multiple attackers. He took them out quickly by strikes to vital targets. He told me he never had to neutralize more than two of the attackers, because after that, the others would stay away from him. Nobody wanted to be next in line...

[Hancock]

3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

I am reminded of the story of Bobby Leach, the first man (and the second person) to survive the fall down the Niagara waterfall (in a barrel).  He later died from slipping on an orange peel in the street.  

 

There's dangers you can't prepare for, but then there's dangers you get punished for ignoring.  A protagonist in one of my favorite authors' novels gets shot because he was -- well, inundated with the overall weakness of his life, his situation, his lack of will or wisdom or luck to change it.  "With all of my miserable existence I constituted a tempting target for a misfortune.  It didn't hesitate to accept the invitation."  

 

So my advise would be, don't try to prepare for something very specific like being jumped by multiple attackers (unless it's a realistic everyday possibility in your life, e.g. if you are a soldier in the enemy territory).  Instead, try to determine where the weak spots in your overall existence are, and invest some awareness and some remedial action into trying to fix that.

 

My own experience:  from thinking, whenever I would see examples of strong, courageous, physically and emotionally competent women, "I wish I was strong like that" to undertaking things conductive to the state of affairs I wished for myself.  Determine what you admire, then undertake learning how to be that. 

 

Caveat: don't cheat.  People bursting with self-admiration who are not admired by anyone who knows them well enough should not be chosen as role models.  Chose people who are admired the more the better you know them.  Don't fake it.  Be it or don't be it, but don't make-believe it to impress/fool others -- impress/convince yourself.  Then multiple attackers will be convinced too -- or at least your chances of convincing them to give you a wide berth may be drastically improved. 

 

Good luck!      

One training practice I do is perception, so nothing is a surprise. 360 awareness because my teacher taught us to focus on a candle and simultaneously focus our peripheral visions well as developed our prioreception. It's a rough practice it maintains a 360 degree of sensory and awareness. One of my fellow peers were blind an our teacher taught us all equally, so we had to lead to do things with blindfolds an what not. It's rough an I'm. Of the best at it but it 's helpful what I learned.

 

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Interesting topic.  I studied and practiced it a bit .

 

Also interestingly, it was a topic of conversation yesterday, a friend visited who was recently in Germany, he saw a 5 on 1 fight , as he said, between a 'little Pommy  soccer rioter' and  'German bikers' .   Don't know what started it, but the Pommie got surrounded, so he king hit the first one and started dancing around singing ;  " Two word wars and one world cup - do-dar, do dar ... "   

(I guess there the plan was to enrage them into wildly attacking - often easier to deal with ) ,  then two grabbed his arms and tried to pull them out so another could wack him; he jerked left and right delivering two head buts, one bloody nose, one split temple, and kicked the other attacking in the nuts ... then he only had one more to deal with .

 

Like anything, the most proficient are the most experienced. So, unless you gonna take up soccer rioting ...

 

In my training ( which has not been in a real situation but practicing simulations ) here are the basic important things ;

 

Keep  you 'spherical awareness' switched on, and always keep scanning the others and the environment ( for things to use to your advantage or against your advantage - also there could be further assailants hiding or watching.

 

Always move towards the outside of the  group,  via getting around or behind the first attacker. If it stalls, take the initiative and you go for the weak link and break through.   Don't assume they don't have concealed weapons.

 

Do not go to ground !  Keep moving and turning.  Always aim to move towards the outside of the group.

 

If you can get a lock on, or a throw, throw them into the others. If you are able to control someone,  turn and use them as a shield from the others.

 

Use everything at your disposal .

 

Be prepared  ( a guy I know has 'going out' shoes ; innocent looking moccasins , but with a steel capped toe ) .

 

I would post a vid of some Aikido randori .... but frankly I have never seen any but the  badly done ....  some really badly done !

However by watching some of them, you can get some of these principles.

 

( Eg, one time in class, I was dealing with two guys at once; I had one in a  stranding one handed wrist lock and was controlling him, a second had been thrown to the floor, towards a third, to block his entry, and before I could turn and push the wristlock guy into the fourth guy, the fourth jumped on my back, so I just, went down and he slipped over and landed on the guy on the ground, causing a little injury to both .

 

teacher freaked and was  " No no no stop ! "  and admonished the guy that jumped me ; " Don't monster people ! Give them a chance to react and do a technique."

 

   WTF ?   

 

 and that's why Aikido randori looks so 'orchestrated !      I offered, instead, to the guy that tried to jump me ;  " Rather ,  you, don't do something so reckless ! or you are libel to get injured, do not attack someone without being aware of what could happen to you or where you might end up ! "

 

anyway ... for whatever it is worth ..... some practice of some type is better than none, I suppose .

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing this. It has untold volumes of hidden practicality.

3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

I am reminded of the story of Bobby Leach, the first man (and the second person) to survive the fall down the Niagara waterfall (in a barrel).  He later died from slipping on an orange peel in the street.  

 

There's dangers you can't prepare for, but then there's dangers you get punished for ignoring.  A protagonist in one of my favorite authors' novels gets shot because he was -- well, inundated with the overall weakness of his life, his situation, his lack of will or wisdom or luck to change it.  "With all of my miserable existence I constituted a tempting target for a misfortune.  It didn't hesitate to accept the invitation."  

 

So my advise would be, don't try to prepare for something very specific like being jumped by multiple attackers (unless it's a realistic everyday possibility in your life, e.g. if you are a soldier in the enemy territory).  Instead, try to determine where the weak spots in your overall existence are, and invest some awareness and some remedial action into trying to fix that.

 

My own experience:  from thinking, whenever I would see examples of strong, courageous, physically and emotionally competent women, "I wish I was strong like that" to undertaking things conductive to the state of affairs I wished for myself.  Determine what you admire, then undertake learning how to be that. 

 

Caveat: don't cheat.  People bursting with self-admiration who are not admired by anyone who knows them well enough should not be chosen as role models.  Chose people who are admired the more the better you know them.  Don't fake it.  Be it or don't be it, but don't make-believe it to impress/fool others -- impress/convince yourself.  Then multiple attackers will be convinced too -- or at least your chances of convincing them to give you a wide berth may be drastically improved. 

 

Good luck!      

I was once jumped by several people and because it's also one of my issues as well as something I want to prepare for, I'm asking about it. However good advice. We can on my prepare so much but some things will get to us regardless.

 

4 hours ago, thelerner said:

Quickie ideas, carrying mace. Note experts say  buy 2, experiment with one. How it's triggered, it's range and type of spray. Also how to quickly a access it. 

 

Like the martial arts, a technique not practiced a thousand times and under pressure is worthless. 

 

I often carry a cheap tactical pen.  Longer, tougher, pointier then a normal one. The tungsten tip breaks glass.  Otherwise not a great weapon, but easily pocketed and it writes well especially with the space pen refill I put in. Thus I can defend write in outer space. 

 

In reality, security is an illusion. The list of things that can kill or hurt us is damn near infinite. Yet we live. Our chances of finishing out this week look excellent too. So enjoy it. Beyond simple preparation, worry is a waste of time. 

 

I try to be ever vigilant, but never afraid. 

Good and sound advice.I massaged by an angry partner once, it is ill do the trick lol. Btw I wasn't stranger to them, they just g it upset an wanted to make me pay after I cAught onto their lie. It was whatever it was.lol I remember going to the gas station. An tears streaming down my face because if the mace, when the gas station attendant asked Sunni was crying I just said ,"my girlfriend broke up with me. She busted out laughing because I'm a big man, so. I laughed too. It helped a lot. I'm free grateful to thAt Asian gas station attendant in Mansfield, Arkansas back in March 2012.

[windwalker]

 

Quote

If ten men, each with a sword, come at you with swords slashing, if you parry each sword without stopping the mind at each action, and go from one to the next, you will not be lacking in a proper action for every one of the ten.

 

Although the mind act ten times against ten men, if it does not halt at even one of them and you react to one after another, will proper action be lacking?

 

But if the mind stops before one of these men, though you parry his striking sword, when the next man comes, the right action will have slipped away.

 

Considering that the Thousand-Armed Kannon has one thousand arms on its one body, if the mind stops at the one holding a bow, the other nine hundred and ninety-nine will be useless.² It is because the mind is not detained at one place that all the arms are useful.

 

some might find this useful.

http://www.alexandrosmarinos.com/TheUnfetteredMind.pdf

Edited August 28, 2017 by windwalker

[Nungali]

Well, that is vey advanced  form .

 

But, if you are in a gang   and you are going to attack a lone person  ( with swords ) ... just make sure you are following the right person  .... and not the local Master.... who has understanding of  Thousand-Armed Kannon  in practice  .     

 

 

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sword+ofdoom&&view=detail&mid=80E0D41D5943CFF851E280E0D41D5943CFF851E2&FORM=VRDGAR