.

[Starjumper]

Western Mo Pai

 

There is one school of cultivation that has drifted far from the original intent of chi kung and that is Mo Pai in the West.  Some westerner tourists ran across a guy known as John Chang.  Western Mo Pai Students is abbreviated as WMPS and pronounced Wimps.   John had cultivated chi power for many decades and had the ability to give people electric shocks.  The travelers were very impressed and made some videos of him giving people shocks, lighting small LED lights, and igniting some paper on fire.  You can buy LED lights that anyone can light up by holding, and iginiting newspaper is a popular trick using chemicals, which are rubbed together as the paper is being crumpled.  A book titled "Magus of Java" was also written about john, in which it is claimed that John is an immortal, as if amateurs would know.  They made it up to sell books.

 

For many people in the West the book and videos were their first exposure to the idea that chi power and special abilities really exist, and naturally, many people want to learn to do these things themselves.  However there is a big problem with all this:

 

John Chang got in trouble for demonstrating abilities in public (a mistake a Taoist immortal would not make) and for teaching Westerners, for which he was fired from his teaching position.  Westerners are now not allowed into the school for a good reason.   There were a couple of short term Western students who were strictly beginners, they learned 2 of the supposed 72 levels, or 2.7% of the system.  They were absolutely unqualified to teach and did not have permission to teach; yet they disobeyed and taught the very little that they had learned anyway.   Based on these meager and misled teachings some egomaniacs have created an internet forum or two in order to cash in on the popularity of Mo Pai.  The important thing to note is that each level consist of only ONE technique, which is a huge joke.  

 

Those guys spent two years ‘learning’ only those two exercises, they received no corrections of their obvious mistakes.  Even beginners who have seen the pictures can spot the glaring mistakes and see those technique smugglers learned incorrectly.

 

The fact that only two techniques were taught in two years should be a big red flag for anyone interested in real nei kung.  Chi kung normally consists of small sets of low power exercises while real nei kung systems are vast holistic systems which contain thousands of techniques.

 

When students learn only two techniques and the teacher doesn't explain much it is normal to try to figure out what is happening and this leads to arriving at some crazy ideas, many of which one finds are incorrect as they advance further.  However these Westerners can not advance further and so they filled in the blanks with some wild imaginings, which they passed on to the Wimps.  The Wimps, in turn, are ruled over by a high pressure egotistical Western dictator type, who made up further things about the practice.

 

For example, the original stolen teachings mention sitting in full or half lotus but do not mention grounding.  In his wild imaginings the dictator of the Wimps took it a step further and declared that people who sit indoors need to sit with their bare butt on a bare copper wire and have the wire go outside and be connected to the ground.  He declared that it is best to sit on the bare  ground with a bare butt while meditating, which, as anyone who has read a bit will know, is not only comical, but patently ridiculous.  It ignores some basic facts about cultivating chi power, and also ignores some commonly known scientific facts which are that both people's skin and the soil on the ground are good insulators and not conductors.  It is possible to cultivate all the power one could imagine by sitting in chairs indoors as most readers with common sense are well aware of.

 

Edit:  The latest news has it that all three of the practitioners of Mo Pai known to the west, including John Chang, now have or have died from, prostate cancer, which they developed at relatively young ages, and this is said to be a result of doing Mo Pai.

 

--------------------------------

 

Warning about the second exercise:

 

So while the first technique, called level one, is fine as plain old low power meditation, there are some serious problems with the second exercise, called level two.  It is concerning level two and the requirement to create a lot of tension.  Lao Tsu wrote in the TTC that rigidity, which is the same as the tension used, is the way of death, while softness and flexibility is the way of the vibrant and living.  It has similarities to Iron Shirt, and Iron Shirt is for creating resistance to blows and is not for health or longevity.  This is what I have to say about chi kung that uses tension, and you can quote me on this:  "Most of them are going to die young", which echoes the sentiments of Lao Tzu, who appears to have been a nei kung master. 

 

To create a lot of tension while breathing in slowly and then holding the breath and tension for as long as possible is very unnatural and is 'backwards'.  My friendly Taoist wizard/immortal/teacher and mentor put it this way:  "Never hold your breath!"

 

It is safe to say that doing level two is unsafe and will hurt you, not maybe, and not if you do it a lot.  It will hurt you for sure, and every time.  Every single time chips another little bit off the longevity measuring stick off your life, and it isn't worth it to be able to give people little electric shocks, there are other, better, softer ways.  There are other ways to gain healing abilities that do not involve creating tension.  In fact all legitimate schools of Taoist nei kung will lead a person to experience magic, real magic, and they are done softly.

 

It's different for the Western Mo Pai psychophants though, they only know about level two and so they will be continually doing this tension creating practice, which is shortening their lives and creating not only physical tension which stays with them when they aren't practicing but a lot of emotional tension which blends with their egotistical desire for power in ugly ways.  As we can all very easily see.

 

-----------------------------------

 

Warning:  Since some spies infiltrated the Wimps and shared everything with the public, the Wimp’s dictator is claiming to have discovered  the third technique for, TAADAA, a grand total of 4% of the system.  However it is a carefully guarded secret that only those who suck up to the dictator for a long time are given it. The Wimps imagine themselves to be quite exalted and advanced in the west West from knowing 3 - 4% of a defective system, and will tell you this for sure, because there is a video of John giving people little electric shocks and playing some common tricks.  BEWARE of this.  The Wimps do NOT have this information because the real Mo Pai students, the Asian Mo Pai students, hate them, will not help them in any way, and sincerely hope they go and burn in hell ASAP.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

I am putting this information here because previously only the people on the Western Mo Pai forum had the information and it gave them a form of power which was badly abused.  Now it is freely available to the public to see.

 

I DO NOT recommend that people follow these teachings.

------------------------

 

Commentary about the first picture - you can see several problems with this first 'level' as shown here.  You can see he is holding tension in his face.  The first rule of meditation is to relax the tension out of your face.  Secondly he is not sitting up straight and is demonstrating incorrect posture.  This is also an important requirement for meditation in general and energy cultivation in particular.  Thirdly he is touching his thumbs to his fingers, which makes it less efficient for cultivating overall chi power.

 

Mo Pai, Level 1 - by Jim.

 

This picture illustrates the half lotus; one leg is pulled on top of the other. A full lotus is putting one leg on top of the other and then pulling the other leg on top. Usually, the way we development in America isn’t conducive for a full lotus, as we train the wrong muscles. But if you can sit in a full lotus you do not need to touch your fingers, rather just place your hands on your legs in a comfortable manner. Most of us will never attain a full lotus…but this doesn’t matter in the slightest. We can have exactly the same results by sitting in a half lotus. If using a half lotus, you must touch the first finger with your thumb while placing them upon your legs in a comfortable manner. Do not do level 2 first. From building your newly developed chi during level 1, it can then be condensed in level 2, this is important.

 

Now to begin, close your eyes and think “relax”. Quiet your mind by watching the lights that flash when your eyes are closed. Rub your hands together to warm them. Use a finger or place your hand exactly on your dan tien…this tells your mind where your breath must go. As you begin to breathe…it will slow down automatically as you progress into your session. Breathe in through your nose slowly in a rhythmical manner while imagining your breath going down to your dan tien. Don’t hold your breath at any point. Then visually imagine it coming back up and out your mouth. But do this progressively slowly. Not now, you will eventually working down to eight breaths a minute, then seven, six, five, and ultimately two breaths in one minute. Some people eventually do one breath per minute. But this isn’t necessary, as I achieved all that was required only doing two breaths per minute for ten minutes straight. I would then return to normal slow breathing and then go back to two breaths per minute for another ten minutes until my session was over. But this isn’t necessary, eventually just slow breathing to around four to five breaths per minute is just fine. Once you complete one cycle (breath in through the nose and out of your lungs through your mouth), you start over and repeat it for the time you’ve allotted for training. Important: your breathing must be illustrated only by your stomach expanding and contracting. There should be nothing else moving. In the beginning make sure your shoulders don’t move, as this indicates your breathing is too high and your newly cultivated chi will stay high and not make it into your dan tien. So keep shoulders still and only move stomach to accommodate the chi in that area. It is good to have someone observe you to make sure you are not moving your shoulders when you do your meditative breathing.

All this may take some time, but as usual, don’t push your self. Just relax and enjoy the experience trusting that all is done for a specific reason and things will happen as they should. This training is mechanical, and by doing all this you “will” attain the same desired affects as all others have attained in Mo Pai by doing this exact same training. While concentrating during your meditation you must work on emptying your mind of all thoughts. This is very difficult and literally takes years to develop…so don’t be in a hurry as nothing will happen any sooner than it is supposed to. Some people, by virtue of their physiology, psyche and innate abilities allow them to develop sooner than others, but all who train “will” develop no matter what. Just accept how you are created and appreciate the transition into another mindset.

Helpful hint: when concentrating, focusing only on your dan tien, or your breath, or try and blank everything out your mind; any one works for your development. All are designed for pointed “concentration.”

 

You should start out gradually; I started out doing meditation for five minutes, then I quickly advanced to ten. This may not sound like much, but you have to remember you will be doing this literally for years. So, to start off slowly almost guarantees your longevity. If you start too fast you will most certainly quit early and likely never achieve your goal. By starting slowly to train yourself allows your mind and body to become adjusted…and then your mind and body will actually tell you that it can take more when it is ready. When this happens you must accommodate this by adding either a minute or a few minutes at a time. Just as long as you take your time, and not be in a hurry…this way you will find it is easier to increase your time.

 

In Mo Pai, there is no specific time each day to meditate. However, one hour is usual for most people because most of us work and have family responsibilities. But, if you are single you can take more time to train. Either way, you can do more if it is possible, which may increase your development. If you have families don’t take away quality time from them. This is for you as much as it is for them. I worked up to one hour over a period of two years. When I reached one hour I started a second session for the day with another hour. I would do one hour and stop and do some other things, then I would return and do another session of one hour. After a while I started trying to do more than an hour at a time and occasionally did 2 hours straight. But mostly I would only do one hour each session per day. So, I would highly recommend that you take your time so you can withstand all the issues that will come up and be able to adjust to them. It is similar to working out with weights, you don’t just start bench pressing over two-hundred pounds…you’ve got to work up to it. If you tried you most likely would rip tendons, and or tear muscles and this would force you to stop.

Important: after two months of constant, daily training, your breathing mechanics must
change. The normal breathing in which you started was for getting used to your meditative training. You still benefited from the normal way of breathing, but now the Mo Pai method of breathing must be begin. To do this you must reverse your breathing technique. Instead of expanding your stomach with your breathing-in; now, you must “pull-in” your stomach as you breathe-in. This may sound strange and hard at first, but it can be done…it becomes second nature. Then, you must “expand” your stomach as you “breathe-out.” Your stomach is doing just the opposite from the normal way we breathe (And remember your stomach is the only part of your body that moves). At first this will greatly impair your ability to lengthen your breathing repetitions. However, it will improve over time; just work on it and be patient, as this is an entirely different mode of training from ancient knowledge.

 

Sex: this is another issue that must be addressed. It is simple and straight forward; if you expel your semen (in any manner) you must “STOP” for three days. If you do train during that time, you will tear your dan tien…and that would “end” your training, because you can’t fill a torn container. So, you must strictly adhere to the “time-off” period before you return to Mo Pai training. This also applies if you expel your semen during sleep. Also, if you are married, you must accommodate your wife as she needs your attention in many areas. My teacher had seven children while he trained…so what does that tell you?

Differences: You must also understand the difference between meditation and “concentration”. One can meditate upon anything or any subject in a relaxed state. Meditating causes you to think more clearly. You can think better in meditation on many issues and make better decisions…you allow your inner mind to move upward into your conscience thinking. Concentration on the other hand is when you totally focus your thoughts without any distractions or interruptions whatsoever on either nothing or a single point…it is where your mind is totally free of thought, as there is no wavering or moving thoughts going through your mind, it is still. This is however only achieved in increments, and it also depends upon your desire to totally focus! If thoughts arise, there is a method that helps to dissipate them: when any thought comes simply look in your mind to where the thought originated…and it will dissolve away. Concentration and breathing (Mo Pai’s method) combined is actually what develops your chi to build in your dan tien. Just meditating and regular breathing will not cause you to attain the desired effects necessary for Mo Pai’s levels.

It takes much training to achieve stillness of mind, so don’t think you can do it quickly…you can’t. It is estimated that in one hour of meditation you may achieve a total of one minute of concentration (empty mind)…it is that difficult. This will improve over time of course.

In Mo Pai training you must develop 81 hours of total “concentration” to attain “certain” markers to show you’ve reached a specific level. So, it doesn’t matter how focused you are, it will still take a long time to attain this amount of concentration…so you need to be very patient and understand that you “concentrate” during meditation. I will know where you stand by the signs you will eventually attain. You need to tell me when they happen as well.

 

I will give you a clue, it took me around fifteen months to achieve the “heat” in my dan tien. This is the first sign that your chi development is going along perfectly. The heat will also increase in its intensity to the point you might feel you are going to burn up…you will not, it is the chi throughout your body accumulating in your dan tien. Some people will gain this later and some sooner, don’t be discouraged, as it will come no matter what. The next feeling will most certainly come as did the fist; everyone gets it, but the only difference is it reacts differently on everyone; it is the same thing for everyone but affects different parts of your body. It is a wonderful confirmation of your development, as well as a surprising one; you will enjoy it!

End your meditation session with slow movements. It is best to bring your mind slowly back to reality. Once you’ve stopped, just sit a moment and slowly open your eyes. Don’t react to issues by jumping up quickly. Take your time. Massage your legs if they have some pain and slowly get up. Wait for five minutes before you begin the next level.

------------------------------

Now, about level 2:

 

You must train at level 1 (meditation) first, for at least one month if not two in order for your body to “feel” and “understand” what it is transitioning over to. It is also a new “mind set” that must be ingrained into your mind as well. To properly learn either level 1 or 2, each level must be done correctly in order for you to become innately familiar with it. Doing both levels at first can cause your body to become stressed in ways we don’t understand. Your might want to do both at first, but your body’s innate condition is different from your active mind. It needs to adjust to one level at a time, and then you can add the next level. When you first begin level 2, it isn’t possible to do too many repetitions as it drains your physical
energy. So, it is important NOT to do too much at first. Be patient, work up slowly. If you try and do too many it will also cause your mind not to want to exert so much energy.

Be forewarned: listen to your instinctive warnings, as this level can be harmful in the beginning…if you do too much. In my beginning I tried to do more than my physical system was capable and because of that I received severe headaches. I wasn’t able to train as much as I wanted to, but persisted anyway doing very few repetitions despite the headaches until it finally subsided after several months. So, don’t push it if there are headaches or any other physical issues, just do a few each day until the headache stops, and then you can proceed with more repetitions. But you may not have this happen. If any thing occurs, be wise and slow way down, maybe you might have to stop for a while, but just don’t push it. Don’t do any more than five repetitions daily for the few weeks. If you are doing well then, add one more repetition the following month. It should take about a month do about 6 and no more. And to reach 10-12 should be around at least four months. Add repetitions slowly no matter what. Even if you want to train harder…don’t! It must be done slowly, as you may have some very bad experiences. When I finally reached the point to attain my level 3 training, I was doing fifty repetitions per session. But remember I was in my tenth year of training. Don’t think it is necessary to go beyond this amount of repetitions; however, you can if you decide to. I am not sure you’ll achieve anything more or faster than I. My ex-teacher, Pak John said that I developed faster than most of his students.

Mo Pai, Level 2

Pic. 001, 002: Stand in a wide horse stance with arms stretched out in front of you, palms facing down. Your horse stance doesn’t have to be low as some schools teach, just comfortable.

 

 

Pic. 003, 004: As you start, begin to inhale in unison as you start to pull your hands back “slowly”— your hands are just starting to rotate as you start to grab an imaginary rope. Do not do this hastily…but slowly! Remember you are pulling something that is extremely heavy! As you pull back grabbing the rope, there must be great tension (using all your strength). Slowly breathe-in as you (just barely starting to turn over) keep pulling your grip toward you. (Notice pic’s to see what position your hands are).

 

 

As fists are about half way and still pulling an imaginary rope, they are slowly rotating over as they are coming closer to the side of your chest (still using great tension). Once your hands are about ¾’s turned over they should now be in a more natural position (there is no more imaginary rope). Continue pulling. You are still breathing in.

Pic. 008: Fists are turned upside down at this point (if you opened your fists your palms would face upward and your fingers would be pointing forward). Continue pulling fists to side of chest while you are still breathing in.

 

Pic. 010, 011: Fists have completed their journey and have reached the sides of your chest. It is at this point that you’re breathing in has fully reached its optimum (lungs filled)…and you stop in combination with your breathing in. The breath must coordinate with the hand movements, both breath and hands start and stop at the same time. While you use your strength to pull, your breathing isn’t strained or forced and done normally. It is only your strength from pulling that you use force. Don’t use leg or any other muscles other than the ones associated only with using your strength to pull your hands backward; stomach muscles, shoulders, chest, part of neck, all of arms, all of rib cage and back will be tightened.

 

 

Pic. 012, 013: At this point, you must stop and hold your breath as well as your strength. Then, your breath/chi “must” be dropped “to” your dan tien while still exerting your strength! You must visualize this…and feel it as well. As you do this, also drop your fists at the same time, about a ¼ of an inch; your stomach should be very tight. Once you have dropped your energy to your dan tien…you must hold it, while still holding your breath. Don’t try and do more than five repetitions at first. Just take your time, as this is very important to your training. I know there are a few of you who will want to do more…but don’t, you may injure your self in some way like a hernia, etc. In other words, freeze and hold your breath for 10-15 seconds in the beginning and no longer. As you train longer you can increase to 20, 25 sec, and after a few years you should be up to 35 to 45 seconds. Don’t worry if you can’t do more than this. It isn’t important to set records…what is important is the energy (chi) being “condensed” in your dan tien during this training. It just takes a long time to develop this aspect, so relax and make this a daily habit. You want to look forward to training rather than dreading it…allow your body to tell you when to start increasing your repetitions, and feel good about the fact that you are training in ancient knowledge.

 

 

Pic. 014, 015: When you’re ready to breathe again, raise up your fists back up the “¼ inch,” as well as your energy back up to your chest at the same time. Mind you, you are still exerting all your energy all during this final phase of your repetition. Once your fists have moved up and still holding your breath, slowly open your hands and rotate them so that your palms are facing forward and fingers are pointing up. Now, you must use your strength to start pushing forward as if a huge rock or a solid wall can be push away from you. But, as you start to push forward you must begin the release your breath at the same time…slowly, and it should be depleted at the same time as you complete pushing your arms to full length. Try and breathe normal as you do this.

 

 

Pic. 016, 017: Your flattened palms are half way in front of you while still using all your strength and expelling half of your breath.

 

 

Pic. 018, 019: Once you reach your total arms length forward, your breath should also be totally expelled. Remain in your horse stance. Allow yourself to recuperate for a moment and then repeat the same exercise to complete your designated repetitions.

 

 

Hi, Level 1 is just accumulating chi in your dan tien. There, this will manifest itself with the feeling of heat. The heat is from it being uncontroled as it races around in your dan tien...kind of like friction in a way. Then it will manifest itself in a different manner after you gain the correct amount of chi.

Level two is condensing, you've got to condense the chi for proper filling of the dan tien.
Brief I know, but that is about it. There is no breaking the five connections of the dan tien yet, that will come later.

Jim

 

NOTE -  For the first 58 pages or so you will see that there is mention of missing pictures.  That is because the Wimps deleted those originals in order to retain control.  Luckily a member saved those pictures before that, and shared them here, so I was able to replace them.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Starjumper
REC

[Marblehead]

6 hours ago, Starjumper said:

never mind  

Is that anything like empty mind?

 

[Pyramidalcow]

What can you do Steve Gray in terms of wizardry power?

[Pyramidalcow]

I have no idea

Edited November 18, 2020 by Pyramidalcow

[Starjumper]

I edited the heck out of the first post so it's more streamlined now.  For those who want to see a more detailed discussion of Mo Pai, by those who know, you can visit this page:  

 

 

[MegaMind]

I would like to caution people from attempting to practice altered instructions.

 

All the most important details of training have been removed from the material in the above post.

[Starjumper]

I would like to caution people from believing what Western Mo Pai promoters say while advertising their forum here.  They are well know for their constant lying and avoidance of the issue.  This is easy to discover by doing some searches of past threads on this forum.

 

The only thing that was altered is that the online pictures which came with the instructions, which two different spies copied and shared with me, which were identical and unaltered, were deleted, because the Wimps want to hide the exercises from the public in order to retain control.  

 

In fact, these instructions were shared with the public here precisely to remove them from the control of the Wimps.  Remember, the real Mo Pai students, the Asian Mo Pai students, hate the Western Mo Pai students for what they are doing to the name of their system.

 

The pictures, which are faulty because they show poor posture and alignment, are not really needed,  the written descriptions are therefore better, and thorough enough.  

Edited November 16, 2019 by Starjumper

[MegaMind]

4 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I would like to caution people from believing what Western Mo Pai promoters say while advertising their forum here.  They are well know for their constant lying and avoidance of the issue.  This is easy to discover by doing some searches of past threads on this forum.

 

The only thing that was altered is that the online pictures which came with the instructions, which two different spies copied and shared with me, which were identical and unaltered, were deleted, because the Wimps want to hide the exercises from the public in order to retain control.  

 

In fact, these instructions were shared with the public here precisely to remove them from the control of the Wimps.  Remember, the real Mo Pai students, the Asian Mo Pai students, hate the Western Mo Pai students for what they are doing to the name of their system.

 

The pictures, which are faulty because they show poor posture and alignment, are not really needed,  the written descriptions are therefore better, and thorough enough.  

 

"Western Mo Pai promoters say while advertising their forum here."

 

The link in my signature was added because Sean the forum owner asked us to do a FAQ.  We did as he instructed us to do, and the FAQ wasn't something any of us wanted.  It is not a forum you can join, it exists merely to host the FAQ.

 

"The only thing that was altered is that the online pictures which came with the instructions"

 

As just one example among many many many others, grounding was one thing Jim stressed was absolutely critical.  The documents and videos Jim left to us are radically different from what you posted.  Your instructions omitting the requirement to be grounded is just one example. If you think we are making this up, please see Jim's book as a reference:

 

He told me I needed to be sitting on the ground; he could tell because I didn't have enough “yin” in me when he checked me out. I had been practicing inside a mobile home I was living in temporarily next to the house I was building. It was about three feet above the ground. He explained to me, “Your yin comes from the earth and you need to be connected to it.” He said I have to sit outside on the ground. This was somewhat troubling because where I live it snows about twice a year and rains a lot, so while he was telling me this I was trying to figure how I was going to be able to do it. He also told me yang comes from the air and enters the energy point on the top of your head. And it needs to be equally balanced with my yin which enters another energy point at the area of your perineum.

 

-Seeking The Master Of Mo Pai Jim McMillan

Edited November 16, 2019 by MegaMind

[Rocky Lionmouth]

This an automated post to inform you that the ”Days Without Mo Pai”-counter has encountered issues with time linearity and 404’ed because of necromancy. 

 

3DT scriptis out of sync and natural abdominal reboot is advised. Please contact MicroTosh Pear-Hatch administrator for them to dislodge the blockage of energy in the diamond core.

[MegaMind]

10 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

This an automated post to inform you that the ”Days Without Mo Pai”-counter has encountered issues with time linearity and 404’ed because of necromancy. 

 

3DT scriptis out of sync and natural abdominal reboot is advised. Please contact MicroTosh Pear-Hatch administrator for them to dislodge the blockage of energy in the diamond core.

 

https://old.reddit.com/r/fifthworldproblems/

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Well, used to be it was all [redacted] but then a voidgate opened and in flooded unsolicited debt multipliers with a strong positive growth coefficient, now my toaster is worth three times my yearly income and has bought out the property. What will we eat?

[Starjumper]

On 11/16/2019 at 9:58 AM, MegaMind said:

As just one example among many many many others, grounding was one thing Jim stressed was absolutely critical.  Your instructions omitting the requirement to be grounded is just one example. If you think we are making this up, please see Jim's book as a reference:

 

So, two wrongs make a right?  Grounding of the kind you mention is only needed with Mo Pai because Mo Pai is such a defective, deficient system.  With any decent chi kung practice a person gets plenty of yin energy to work with.  

[MegaMind]

2 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

So, two wrongs make a right?  Grounding of the kind you mention is only needed with Mo Pai because Mo Pai is such a defective, deficient system.  With any decent chi kung practice a person gets plenty of yin energy to work with.  

 

Show us something like this, if you know of better alternatives.

 

 

[Starjumper]

13 minutes ago, MegaMind said:

 

Show us something like this, if you know of better alternatives.

 

 

 

Chang was a friggin' amateur:

 

Taoist sage Chuang Tzu wrote about displaying yourself, translated by Thomas Merton:

 

The Tower of the Spirit

 

The spirit has an impregnable tower,

which no danger can disturb,

as long as the tower is guarded by the invisible protector,

who acts unconsciously, and whose actions go astray

when they become deliberate, reflexive and intentional.

 

The unconscious and entire sincerity of the Tao,

are disturbed by any effort at self-conscious demonstration. 

All such demonstrations are lies

When one displays himself in this ambiguous way,

the world outside storms in and imprisons him.

 

Each new act is a new failure.

If his acts are done in public, In broad daylight,

he will be punished by men.

If they are done in private and in secret,

they will be punished by spirits.

Let each one understand The meaning of sincerity,

And guard against display!

Edited December 7, 2019 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

 

From Journey to the West;

 

*

 

On a day when spring was giving way to summer, and all the students had been sitting under some pine trees listening to lectures for a long time, they said, "Sun Wukong, in what life did you earn your present destiny? The other day our teacher whispered to you how to do the transformations to avoid the Three Disasters. Can you do them all yet?"

 

"It's true, brothers," said Sun Wukong with a grin, "I can do them all. In the first place, it's because our master taught me; and in the second place, it's because I practiced them hard day and night."

 

"This would be a good time for you to give us a demonstration." At this suggestion Sun Wukong braced his spirit to show off his skill.

 

"What's it to be, brothers? Tell me what you'd like me to turn myself into."

 

"Turn into a pine tree," they all said. Sun Wukong clenched his fist, said the magic words, shook himself, and changed into a pine tree.

 

It was truly Green and misty throughout the four seasons,

Raising its upright beauty to the clouds.

Not in the least like a demon monkey,

Every inch a tree that withstands frost and snow.

 

When the students saw it they clapped their hands and chuckled aloud, saying, "Good old monkey, good old monkey." They did not realize that the row they were making had disturbed the Patriarch, who rushed out through the door, dragging his stick behind him.

 

"Who's making a row out here?" he asked. The students hurriedly pulled themselves together, straightened their clothes and went over to him.

 

Sun Wukong, who had now resumed his real appearance, said from the forest, "Master, we were holding a discussion here, and there were no outsiders making a din."

 

"Yelling and shouting like that," the Patriarch angrily roared, "is no way for those cultivating their conduct to behave. If you are cultivating your conduct, the subtle vapours escape when you open your mouth, and when you wag your tongue, trouble starts. What was all the laughing and shouting about"

 

"Just now Sun Wukong did a transformation for fun. We told him to turn himself into a pine tree, and he did. We all praised and applauded him, which was why we disturbed you with the noise, master. We beg you to forgive us."

 

The Patriarch sent them all away except for Sun Wukong, to whom he said, "Come here. Is that a way to use your spirit? To change into a pine tree? Is this a skill you should be showing off in front of people? If you saw somebody else doing that, wouldn't you ask him to teach you? If other people see you doing it, they're bound to ask you to teach them, and if you want to keep out of trouble you'll have to do so; otherwise they may do you harm, and then your life will be in danger."

 

Sun Wukong kowtowed and said, "Please forgive me, master."

 

"I shan't punish you," the Patriarch replied, "but you'll have to go." Sun Wukong's eyes filled with tears.

 

"Master, where am I to go?"

 

"Go back to where you came from." Sun Wukong had a sudden awakening, and he said, "I came from the Water Curtain Cave on the Mountain of Flowers and Fruit in the country of Aolai in the Eastern Continent of Superior Body."

 

"If you hurry back there," the Patriarch replied, "you will be able to preserve your life. If you stay here it will be absolutely impossible to do so." Sun Wukong accepted his punishment.

 

"Yes, master," he said. "I've been away from home for twenty years and I do miss the old days and my children and grandchildren. But when I remember that I have not yet repaid your enormous generosity to me, I can't bring myself to go."

 

"What sort of kindness would you be doing me if you stayed? I'll be happy enough if you keep me out of any disasters you cause."

 

Seeing that there was nothing else for it, Sun Wukong bowed and took leave of him, saying good−bye to all the other students.

 

"Now that you're going," the Patriarch said, "I'm sure that your life will not be a good one. Whatever disasters you cause and crimes you commit, I forbid you under any circumstances to call yourself my disciple. If you so much as hint at it I'll know at once, and I'll tear off your monkey skin, chop up your bones, and banish your soul to the Ninth Darkness. I won't let you out for ten thousand aeons."

 

"I promise never to give away a single letter of your name," said Sun Wukong. "I'll just say that I taught myself."

 

Sun Wukong took his leave and went away. Making the spell by clasping his fist he jumped head over heels, summoned a somersault cloud, and went back to the Eastern Continent. Within two hours he saw the Water Curtain Cave on the Mountain of Flowers and Fruit. The Handsome Monkey King was so pleased that he said to himself:

 

"When I left here my mortal flesh and bones were heavy,

But now I have the Way my body's light.

No one in the world has real determination,

To the firm will, the hidden becomes clear.

 

When I last crossed the seas the waves got in my way,

But now on my return the journey's easy.

The parting words still echo in my ears;

When will I see The Eastern Ocean again?"

 

Sun Wukong put away his cloud and headed straight to the Mountain of Flowers and Fruit. As he followed the path there he heard the call of the cranes and the cries of the apes.

 

*

The crane calls echoed beyond the Milky Way,

*

and the ape cries were pathetically sad.

*

 

[MegaMind]

5 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Chang was a friggin' amateur:

 

Taoist sage Chuang Tzu wrote about displaying yourself, translated by Thomas Merton:

The Tower of the Spirit

The spirit has an impregnable tower, which no danger can disturb, as long as the tower is guarded by the invisible protector, who acts unconsciously, and whose actions go astray when they become deliberate, reflexive and intentional.

The unconscious and entire sincerity of the Tao, are disturbed by any effort at self-conscious demonstration.  All such demonstrations are lies

When one displays himself in this ambiguous way, the world outside storms in and imprisons him.

Each new act is a new failure.

If his acts are done in public, In broad daylight, he will be punished by men. If they are done in private and in secret, they will be punished by spirits.

Let each one understand The meaning of sincerity, And guard against display!

 

4 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

From Journey to the West;

 

*

 

On a day when spring was giving way to summer, and all the students had been sitting under some pine trees listening to lectures for a long time, they said, "Sun Wukong, in what life did you earn your present destiny? The other day our teacher whispered to you how to do the transformations to avoid the Three Disasters. Can you do them all yet?"

 

"It's true, brothers," said Sun Wukong with a grin, "I can do them all. In the first place, it's because our master taught me; and in the second place, it's because I practiced them hard day and night."

 

"This would be a good time for you to give us a demonstration." At this suggestion Sun Wukong braced his spirit to show off his skill.

 

"What's it to be, brothers? Tell me what you'd like me to turn myself into."

 

"Turn into a pine tree," they all said. Sun Wukong clenched his fist, said the magic words, shook himself, and changed into a pine tree.

 

It was truly Green and misty throughout the four seasons,

Raising its upright beauty to the clouds.

Not in the least like a demon monkey,

Every inch a tree that withstands frost and snow.

 

When the students saw it they clapped their hands and chuckled aloud, saying, "Good old monkey, good old monkey." They did not realize that the row they were making had disturbed the Patriarch, who rushed out through the door, dragging his stick behind him.

 

"Who's making a row out here?" he asked. The students hurriedly pulled themselves together, straightened their clothes and went over to him.

 

Sun Wukong, who had now resumed his real appearance, said from the forest, "Master, we were holding a discussion here, and there were no outsiders making a din."

 

"Yelling and shouting like that," the Patriarch angrily roared, "is no way for those cultivating their conduct to behave. If you are cultivating your conduct, the subtle vapours escape when you open your mouth, and when you wag your tongue, trouble starts. What was all the laughing and shouting about"

 

"Just now Sun Wukong did a transformation for fun. We told him to turn himself into a pine tree, and he did. We all praised and applauded him, which was why we disturbed you with the noise, master. We beg you to forgive us."

 

The Patriarch sent them all away except for Sun Wukong, to whom he said, "Come here. Is that a way to use your spirit? To change into a pine tree? Is this a skill you should be showing off in front of people? If you saw somebody else doing that, wouldn't you ask him to teach you? If other people see you doing it, they're bound to ask you to teach them, and if you want to keep out of trouble you'll have to do so; otherwise they may do you harm, and then your life will be in danger."

 

Sun Wukong kowtowed and said, "Please forgive me, master."

 

"I shan't punish you," the Patriarch replied, "but you'll have to go." Sun Wukong's eyes filled with tears.

 

"Master, where am I to go?"

 

"Go back to where you came from." Sun Wukong had a sudden awakening, and he said, "I came from the Water Curtain Cave on the Mountain of Flowers and Fruit in the country of Aolai in the Eastern Continent of Superior Body."

 

"If you hurry back there," the Patriarch replied, "you will be able to preserve your life. If you stay here it will be absolutely impossible to do so." Sun Wukong accepted his punishment.

 

"Yes, master," he said. "I've been away from home for twenty years and I do miss the old days and my children and grandchildren. But when I remember that I have not yet repaid your enormous generosity to me, I can't bring myself to go."

 

"What sort of kindness would you be doing me if you stayed? I'll be happy enough if you keep me out of any disasters you cause."

 

Seeing that there was nothing else for it, Sun Wukong bowed and took leave of him, saying good−bye to all the other students.

 

"Now that you're going," the Patriarch said, "I'm sure that your life will not be a good one. Whatever disasters you cause and crimes you commit, I forbid you under any circumstances to call yourself my disciple. If you so much as hint at it I'll know at once, and I'll tear off your monkey skin, chop up your bones, and banish your soul to the Ninth Darkness. I won't let you out for ten thousand aeons."

 

"I promise never to give away a single letter of your name," said Sun Wukong. "I'll just say that I taught myself."

 

Sun Wukong took his leave and went away. Making the spell by clasping his fist he jumped head over heels, summoned a somersault cloud, and went back to the Eastern Continent. Within two hours he saw the Water Curtain Cave on the Mountain of Flowers and Fruit. The Handsome Monkey King was so pleased that he said to himself:

 

"When I left here my mortal flesh and bones were heavy,

But now I have the Way my body's light.

No one in the world has real determination,

To the firm will, the hidden becomes clear.

 

When I last crossed the seas the waves got in my way,

But now on my return the journey's easy.

The parting words still echo in my ears;

When will I see The Eastern Ocean again?"

 

Sun Wukong put away his cloud and headed straight to the Mountain of Flowers and Fruit. As he followed the path there he heard the call of the cranes and the cries of the apes.

 

*

The crane calls echoed beyond the Milky Way,

*

and the ape cries were pathetically sad.

*

 

 

 

More evidence, less words.

[Starjumper]

On 11/16/2019 at 9:58 AM, MegaMind said:

The link in my signature was added because Sean the forum owner asked us to do a FAQ.  We did as he instructed us to do, and the FAQ wasn't something any of us wanted.

 

Why do you say “we” and “us”?   Do you have a mouse in your pocket?  Are you following orders from your leader mentioned in the first post?  Are you the latest "recruiter"?

 

I saw those FAQs and its the usual Wimps stuff.  Lies and half truths for the purpose of promotion, while all the serious questions about great breaches of ethics go unanswered.

[Starjumper]

On 12/7/2019 at 4:15 PM, MegaMind said:

More evidence, less words.

 

Ah so ...  You demand evidence even after those posts.  The problem with you guys is you believe your own bullshit, which is common with unenlightened people.  The thing is, your bullshit is extra stinky.

 

I’ve seen (and felt) a couple of my teachers do things for me in person which are beyond Chang’s little tricks.  You can read about some of it in a book I wrote titled “The Magus of Seattle”.  About a real wizard rather than an imaginary one.   I have a special ability or two myself, and I’ll never make a demo video because it would attract people like you and your Wimp buddies ... as clearly stated in my posts above quoting Chuang Tzu and "Journey to the West"  which you did not understand.

 

In my book you can even learn what both real nei kung and a real master are like.

 

Stay tuned for my new video coming up, titled "Mo Pai is Bullshit"

 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Starjumper

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

Stay tuned for my new video coming up, titled "Mo Pai is Bullshit"

 

 

Because this will likely attract a lot of views, you're going to also get a lot of comments and hostility there too from supporters, whether they are part of his group or not, particularly fans looking for JC. 

 

Will you turn off comments or are you planning to let them talk amongst themselves and say nothing? Or will you be responding to more comments in the comments? I've seen videos where it's enough hostility in the comments that one could make videos responding to comments, so you may end up with at least two videos under this title just responding to comments. 

[Pyramidalcow]

starjumper. do you have iron shirt or greater?

[Rocky Lionmouth]

2 hours ago, Pyramidalcow said:

do you have iron shirt or greater?

 

Iron body skills are cool but not that advanced imo, almost anyone can learn and get quite far with it, but many suffer in advancing age from all sorts of aches and pains.

 

I have a blunt trauma, stab- and bulletproof vest somewhere around here, takes less time and is way safer than a lot of iron shirt styles. It doesn’t stand up against high powered 5.56 or 7.62 rifle shots and it really impede natural and free movement of the torso. A lot of iron shirt i’ve seen is done way too fast and destructively, the soft and patient way to do it is relatively safe and will bring a lot of benefits, iron shirt being the least rewarding of them. 

 

2 cents is all i got, you guys can have them

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Rocky Lionmouth

[Walker]

4 hours ago, Pyramidalcow said:

do you have iron shirt or greater?

 

Does "or greater" refer to iron mankini?

[MegaMind]

On 12/12/2019 at 7:51 PM, Starjumper said:

 

Ah so ...  You demand evidence even after those posts.  The problem with you guys is you believe your own bullshit, which is common with unenlightened people.  The thing is, your bullshit is extra stinky.

 

I’ve seen (and felt) a couple of my teachers do things for me in person which are beyond Chang’s little tricks.  You can read about some of it in a book I wrote titled “The Magus of Seattle”.  About a real wizard rather than an imaginary one.   I have a special ability or two myself, and I’ll never make a demo video because it would attract people like you and your Wimp buddies ... as clearly stated in my posts above quoting Chuang Tzu and "Journey to the West"  which you did not understand.

 

In my book you can even learn what both real nei kung and a real master are like.

 

Stay tuned for my new video coming up, titled "Mo Pai is Bullshit"

 

 

 

Believing such claims based on personal testimony, or because it is merely written in a book is not reasonable or rational.

 

Asking for objective video evidence, with scientists and medical doctors present to do their best to rule out fraud is what we require.

 

So far Wim Hof and John Chang have done so, and hopefully more will in the future.

[senseless virtue]

5 hours ago, MegaMind said:

Asking for objective video evidence, with scientists and medical doctors present to do their best to rule out fraud is what we require.

 

I have never understood why More Pie people are homing into this "objective evidence" argument all the time.

 

I think you might misunderstand what the scientific method is. It's not about some random PhD types witnessing demonstrations in somewhat controlled quasi-laboratory environments and so forth writing about their observations, but a meticulous system of peer review where you face fierce critics and skeptics of all sorts who should be able to conveniently verify your exactly stated falsifiable hypotheses by conducting the same procedure you have described with great detail and care. Why is it done like this? Real science requires controlling and eliminating biases of all type out of which confirmation bias is the most important. Hence the argument about strictly objective observers and observations falls short of modern scientific standards: there is no reliable science without peer review.

 

Moreover, the abundance of pertinent cancer cases lends little credibility to doing further research with More Pie with ethics and safety in mind.

Edited December 14, 2019 by virtue
duplicated words, last sentence added