Fearful Experiences

[mrpasserby]

1 hour ago, Yueya said:

About 20 years ago I had a profound experience of primal reality.  It was scary. I was on an extended solo retreat in the remote ancient and arid hills of Central Australia.  One sunny day, whilst sitting in meditation in a small cave, my regular reality totally fell away and in its place was something utterly other; a primeval world without a trace of humanity. Words fail me in conveying how terrifying it felt. It was like I was the only human alive, bereft of everything, even my internal sense of self was gone. There was nothing familiar; nothing had names anymore. Although I still sat in the same place, it wasn’t a cave anymore. I was in an utterly alien place. All the narratives that make sense of the world were gone along with the whole web of psychic interconnections that continually and subconsciously embrace all us humans in a familiar inner landscape of belonging.  

 

I quickly packed up, hiked back to my vehicle and drove away. It was such a relief to regain human made sights. I still remember how I marvelled at the first barbed wire rural fence I saw by the roadside; a sight that I’d previously found a blight on the landscape.  I who had always found so much to criticise with our human domination of the natural environment suddenly saw it all in a different light. Instead of alienation and repugnance, I marvelled at our achievements. 

 

We speak calmly of human conditioning as if it’s something to be done away with to reach the ‘true reality’ of Dao but I can tell you most all of our conditioning is essential. It is a great human achievement, built over countless centuries, with layer upon layer of culturally constructed meaning. Our culture is like houses, like cities, we’ve built to live in because we need their shelter; and so too are our great spiritual traditions. We’ve made a human friendly world out of the vast primordial otherness.

“Embrace the Dao” they glibly say from the sanctuary of their spiritual lineage. Ha! 

Yueya, I am happy that you have experienced a brief separation from the collective conciseness of humanity.

In my experience: I to have been through the separation in other ways with the gaining of similar understandings. I am new to Daoism, and I am studding its concepts to add to my own because unlike many other teachings Daoism teaches doing something to improve my own personal energy body, which to me is vital to my continued progression. 

[Geof Nanto]

3 minutes ago, mrpasserby said:

Yueya, I am happy that you have experienced a brief separation from the collective conciseness of humanity.

In my experience: I to have been through the separation in other ways with the gaining of similar understandings. I am new to Daoism, and I am studding its concepts to add to my own because unlike many other teachings Daoism teaches doing something to improve my own personal energy body, which to me is vital to my continued progression. 

 

Thanks. A good observation about separation from the collective consciousness of humanity. I'm a great fan of Jung's from way back, but I didn't make the connection until much later. In one thing to read a theory - it's an intellectual experience. It's something else entirely to live it - to feel it at the core of one's being. And I totally agree with you about the of necessity of "doing something to improve my own personal energy body, which to me is vital to my continued progression." That's also what drew me to Daoist praxis and has so much helped me.

 

BTW Whilst you were writing your reply I edited my above post to give it context by adding a link to my PPD: Daoist ‘Silence’: Journeying away from intensity 

[Marblehead]

10 hours ago, Yueya said:

About 20 years ago I had a profound experience of primal reality. 

Ha!  You had a "wu wei" moment.

 

[mrpasserby]

6 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Ha!  You had a "wu wei" moment.

 

Once again I thank you Marblehead, for bringing my attention to this is important Daoist concept, and terminology.  In my original understandings, a first "wu wei" moment/experience, is the beginning of everything, and now I understand the Daoist concept of this is slimier . 

 

[Geof Nanto]

6 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Ha!  You had a "wu wei" moment.

 

 

That's a completely wrong interpretation, Marblehead! 

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, Yueya said:

 

That's a completely wrong interpretation, Marblehead! 

Whatever you say.  After all, it was your experience, not mine.

 

[Small Fur]

On 9/3/2017 at 3:25 PM, Kongming said:

What is the cause and cure for the simultaneous search for Truth/enlightenment and experiences of fear of the same?

 

To be more specific, I will describe what in my own case has happened multiple times over the years and just happened again yesterday: Essentially I will have a sudden insight when contemplating (even philosophically/thought based contemplation) the Absolute or timeless eternity or contingent nature of the body-personality. The experience is like that of my sense of normal self slipping away or disappearing or seeing it as illusion and feeling like I am standing at a precipice before an abyss, almost as though I were about to plunge into the infinite or at least have an experience of reality altogether unlike day to day experience.

 

Now theoretically and according to the words of the sages, to be able to see through illusion and either witness, experience, or ideally unify with the Dao is supposed to be the highest good, true bliss, power, peace, etc. Yet when I begin to have experiences like those mentioned, instead I get a sense of primal fear or anxiety rushing onto me, to the point where I feel the need to either start looking away from the experience, consciously ignore the insight, or even talk myself back into mundane reality and my mundane identity/self. What's even stranger is what started me on this path was a similar experience in the past that I experienced as the greatest good/happiness/bliss/truth possible, and yet now this primal fear/anxiety attacks me.

 

This fear is mostly spontaneous, which is why I use the word "primal", yet if I could rationalize it perhaps its that there is some fear that I will not be the same, that I won't be able to function in the world, or that I may learn something I'd rather not know about myself or reality, again despite the fact that I also theoretically know that the process is a positive one leading to the ultimate (the Dao, etc.)

 

Why is this? How can I simultaneously be searching for Truth and yet whenever something like the above occurs feel primal fear or anxiety? How can I overcome this barrier?

 

 

KongMing,

 

While the fear that is discussed in this thread by others are largely psychological ones, yours is not only primal, but in terms of the psyche it is the core fear, and in this you experience a unique and substantive fear in the existential that few will ever come to in meditation. 

Thus, it is refreshing to come across a post such as yours. Your meditations are obviously done in such sincerity that you are now at the door of what is sometimes known as "the little death".  And contrary to your belief or perceptions about what is highly advanced or what makes one an initiate, in the face of the Ultimate Truth, there is only the purity of one's honesty and heart to transcending the self. 

And thus, you have reach the first of an impasse. Along the meditative journey into awakening, there are often times many passages through 'death'. Indeed, the fear that comes at its precipice may be one of many along the spiritual journey of realizations, encounters and actual loss of what was thought to be known. The quality that blossoms from this death has a lot to do with the meditator... it is a very, very important moment and I encourage you to sit with a sincere and genuine teacher who has experientially made this passage and further.

As for your initial question, you ask why this experience is. Integral to the path of awakening is the reorientation of your system to its knowledge, perception and experience of what is "existence". During meditation, your body became the vessel from which form could act as a conduit to the formless, but there is a threshold at the nexus of the formed and formless 'self'. And now you are here, at the wonderful threshold.

As to your second question, not to be trite, but is it not the case that all fear the truth they *think* they seek? It is indeed why few ever see beyond illusions, let alone come to the potential of what transcends this. I understand too, that yours is a profound fear, and that is because you are at the precipice of either an aspect or totality of profound truth.  How much you discover has to do with your courage... 

 
The cause and the cure then, are not separate things, but a single resolve.

 

A light to you along your journey Mila