World perception

[Nothingness]

Hi everyone.

"After" Self-realization, does one still perceive the world, or is it more like deep sleep with awareness? (non perception) 

Or do you consider both, but being different levels of realization? 

 

[Marblehead]

I'm not a Hindu but I played one on TV.

 

Before "self-awareness", chop wood, carry water.

After "self-awareness", chop wood, carry water.

 

I am currently watching a series on TV of the myths and legends of India.  Most of them are based in Hindu beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

[dwai]

2 hours ago, Nothingness said:

Hi everyone.

"After" Self-realization, does one still perceive the world, or is it more like deep sleep with awareness? (non perception) 

Or do you consider both, but being different levels of realization? 

 

Yes as long as the body exists the world exists. It just becomes dream-like

[phil]

39 minutes ago, dwai said:

Yes as long as the body exists the world exists. It just becomes dream-like

Would be interested in your definition of dream-like.   often dreams seem to be more real to me than normal daily-life 

Edited September 4, 2017 by phil

[silent thunder]

1 hour ago, phil said:

Would be interested in your definition of dream-like.   often dreams seem to be more real to me than normal daily-life 

This sure resonates with me... I think I know exactly how you feel.

[Marblehead]

20 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

... I know exactly how you feel.

WoW!  Phil has been touched.

 

[dwai]

1 hour ago, phil said:

Would be interested in your definition of dream-like.   often dreams seem to be more real to me than normal daily-life 

"Dream-like" to me means the witness of the dream is involved in, and yet, detached from the contents of the dreams. 

[phil]

12 minutes ago, dwai said:

"Dream-like" to me means the witness of the dream is involved in, and yet, detached from the contents of the dreams. 

Thank you. Ever get the feeling that the more you get detached the more you are involved in it? 

 

14 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

WoW!  Phil has been touched.

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by phil

[dwai]

5 minutes ago, phil said:

Thank you. Ever get the feeling that the more you get detached the more you are involved in it? 

 

 

The more detached I get, simpler things become. I can laugh more easily, enjoy things more fully, not take myself too seriously, so on and so forth.

 

I wouldn't say more involved, but more attentive/present to things and happenings.

[Nothingness]

2 hours ago, dwai said:

Yes as long as the body exists the world exists. It just becomes dream-like

 

To whom does the body exist? If the complete identification with the body is cut, body-awareness is lost.

To remain dreaming, there has to be ignorance. While there is ignorance, that is not true self-realization.

 

From my experience, you are talking about a level of realization prior to "absolute beyond perception".

[Nothingness]

2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I'm not a Hindu but I played one on TV.

 

Before "self-awareness", chop wood, carry water.

After "self-awareness", chop wood, carry water.

 

I am currently watching a series on TV of the myths and legends of India.  Most of them are based in Hindu beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

Heard that one before.

 

Before "self-awareness", chop wood, carry water.

After "self-awareness", chop wood, carry water.

 

That is still dreaming, like a dreamer with awareness that it is a dream.

 

When it's just Awareness, and no one to be self-aware, there is no wood to be chopped, no water to be carried.

That is Nirvana.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Nothingness

[Marblehead]

6 minutes ago, Nothingness said:

Heard that one before.

 

Before "self-awareness", chop wood, carry water.

After "self-awareness", chop wood, carry water.

 

That is still dreaming, like a dreamer with awareness that it is a dream.

 

When it's just Awareness, and no one to be self-aware, there is no wood to be chopped, no water to be carried.

That is Nirvana.

Nirvana is after you die.  I'm not dead yet.  I still need wood and water.

 

[dwai]

9 minutes ago, Nothingness said:

 

To whom does the body exist? If the complete identification with the body is cut, body-awareness is lost.

To remain dreaming, there has to be ignorance. While there is ignorance, that is not true self-realization.

 

From my experience, you are talking about a level of realization prior to "absolute beyond perception".

                   Avidya Lesha - Subtle ignorance needed for a jivanamukta to operate in the dualistic world                 

[Nothingness]

13 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Nirvana is after you die.  I'm not dead yet.  I still need wood and water.

 

You can die while you are still alive. That is Nirvana.

 

Waiting for the body to die is nonsense. That's just a belief, maybe Hindu, maybe not.

 

I'm sure Gautama Buddha had to wait for his body to die to 'achieve' Nirvana...

 

 

[Nothingness]

15 minutes ago, dwai said:

                   Avidya Lesha - Subtle ignorance needed for a jivanamukta to operate in the dualistic world                 

Exactly. Read my last post there 

[phil]

3 hours ago, dwai said:

The more detached I get, simpler things become. I can laugh more easily, enjoy things more fully, not take myself too seriously, so on and so forth.

 

I wouldn't say more involved, but more attentive/present to things and happenings.

Yes, I was pointing towards that "laugh more easily, enjoy things more fully", but you are right, this doesn't mean involvement, but reality get's more intense in a way. 

I think for many people the difficult part is the allowance of one's own spontaneity. Spontaneity meaning: Having thoughts and actions that come from the true essence of oneself, those coming perfectly in the right moment. In the right moment, because they come from that place inside of you that is detached from linear time and that is always in the present, having a way more better overview of the whole situation than the ego/mind or whatever.

 

[Marblehead]

5 hours ago, Nothingness said:

You can die while you are still alive. That is Nirvana.

 

Old soldiers never die.  They just fade away.

 

[Boy]

On 2017-09-04 at 1:59 PM, Nothingness said:

Hi everyone.

"After" Self-realization, does one still perceive the world, or is it more like deep sleep with awareness? (non perception) 

Or do you consider both, but being different levels of realization? 

 

 

Bonjour! One still perceives the world. The one consider[ing] both or making up koans is just an object.

[Nothingness]

2 hours ago, Boy said:

 

Bonjour! One still perceives the world. The one consider[ing] both or making up koans is just an object.

To whom does the world appear? To the mind? or the bodiless Awareness itself?

[Boy]

The mind is an object. You tell me, but I wouldn't say that things appear to each other. Remember that awareness is you. It would seem that the world appears to you. Through the body, perhaps, sometimes with the mind interfering? My general suggestion - and this may not apply to you, Nothingness - would be to put these kinds of questions aside and focus on self realization.

[3bob]

"when you die..."  that is mental conditioning as to who "you" are,  the Self (per the Upanishads and other Hindu based doctrine) is not bound by such nor is it a body that dies or has loss of perception.  Btw. there is almost always trouble when or if Hindu and Buddhist takes on the Self /no-self are brought up or mixed together since they are 180 degrees off from each other per key concepts and doctrines along with the schools that follow such.  Meaning that advanced Buddhist and Hindu based teachers or guru's are 180 degrees off from each other per their core experiences and realizations as revealed by their teachings.. (have fun integrating that as a student that has degrees of appreciation for both)

Edited September 11, 2017 by 3bob

[Boy]

Yes, I agree completely, 3bob. So it's disconcerting to see the word "nirvana" in this thread. That said IMHO the truth beyond concepts/doctrine/school is singular, wouldn't you agree?

[3bob]

I'd agree that the One beyond the Two is singular, (borrowing Taoist terms) after that -meaning to agree or disagree about Mystery is of much ado.

[neti neti]

On 9/4/2017 at 6:59 AM, Nothingness said:

Hi everyone.

"After" Self-realization, does one still perceive the world, or is it more like deep sleep with awareness? (non perception) 

Or do you consider both, but being different levels of realization? 

 

 

 

With the profound conviction that you alone are, comes a world experience shifted to the background to such a degree that it may as well be said to not exist. Everything is perceived as only self, a laser-like focus of self-abidance in which focus is useless. There is nothing to focus upon when you are it. Modifications of differentiating between waking states, awareness/unawareness or levels cease, because "mind" has ceased.

 

The knowledge of perception and the knowledge of non-perception is also self. Once the phantom menace that is ego is exposed, the illusion of its annihilation is also. The tragic "death" of our on-stage character is a cosmic joke's punchline, the ultimate plot twist whereby ego is known to have only been oneself in disguise.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2017 by neti neti

[Boy]

Yes, with the caveat that I don't exactly understand what you mean by "[m]odifications of differentiating" I very much agree, neti neti (not that it matters ). Nonetheless, in my experience such descriptions tend to awaken the pathos to such a degree that the realization (or whatever path lies before it) gets "lost" temporarily. This is not a critique but just an innocent thought - I personally found it more helpful to get it in "plain english" with as few paradoxes as possible and with fixed definitions. Much love.