The Effect of Drugs and other Substances on our Spiritual Training!

[Rocky Lionmouth]

I'm quite sure all substances that can provide or prepare the soil for insight and development are useful in moderation, provided the use is deliberate and directed towards a specific function or goal.

 

I've personally experienced both positive and negative effects on spirituality, health and development alongside social and productive factors, all of the depending on what i thought i was trying to achieve and wether it was for exploration, self-medication or prescribed medication.

 

Context, care, dosage and purpose are vital. I'm personally trying as hard as i can to stay away from using alcohol too much or too often because whatever beneficial effect i experience i usually overreach and then pay a disproportionate price for doing so.

I think moderation and purpose is important and that its not necessarily bad nor good per se to use substances for spiritual purposes, but as with everything that has effects on us as human beings and our states of awareness and health there are risks that should not be underestimated. Especially if we speak about psychotropic effects as they can have effects on parts of us that we are unaware of and that we might have to deal with later on, to make an example:

 

say you have great and liberating spiritual experiences while using cannabis to enhance your meditation or cultivation, but that at the same time as you unfetter your emotional energies and a little of your subconscious there could be a part of you that reinforces a pattern of negative self image without you really being in a position to notice that until later on when a bout of depressive states become especially difficult to dissolve or work through. If your problems became in part unlocked while under the influences and then awarness of that dissipated as the high passed, those problems will be hard to access without resorting to get high again. But since it's not a normalized state where we are fully in control, revisiting that could become not therapeutic but actually another round of reinforcement.

I speak of this from personal experience. I used cannabis as self medication and creative agumentation and ended up feeling like shit for a long time and weed only helped making it worse in the long run.

 

That said, i'm on a pretty multifaceted regimen of different medicinals, some of which have an effect on awareness, psychological and emotional patterns, it is beneficial still and actually vital at some points so i'm not sure if it is relevant to this thread or not...

2 cents at least?

[silent thunder]

I've come to perceive anything I take into myself, particularly my food, as a medicinal.  This mindset has developed naturally through my experiences.  As my sensitivity has increased, so has my experience and understanding that every single thing I take in, affects the whole, exhibits an effect.  We self medicate with food daily, most of us and pay it little to no mind at all.

 

The manner and quality of my breathing, is perhaps the most potent medicine I have encountered.

 

The palpable experience of how much impact everything I take into my body has... has altered my perception of power and increased the level of mindfulness in all things I ingest. 

 

Last few years it's even more imporatnt to me, what I allow to enter my mind and thoughts in the form of news, conversations and what I will allow my mind to ruminate on as these affect my heart and determine to a large degree, the tone of the subtle which infuses the physical.  Everything I ingest and the quality and manner of my breathing and my relational thinking to them are all of vital importance.

 

Medicine can harm or heal.  My wife and son are both very sensitive to the concentrations of most pharmaceutical medicines and usually take half of what folks their size would take to gain benefit and avoid harm from their doctor prescribed meds. 

 

I on the other side of the spectrum usually require 50+% more of a compound for efficacy or any affect at all.

 

Dosage, reason for ingesting, relationship to environment, mental and subtle tone.. all vitally important.

[Chá Rén 茶人]

Going off what you said @silenthunder, I have had periods of my life where my diet was very clean and nourishing, but I was not doing breathing practices and was highly stressed from too much work. Thus, I received very little benefit from my "organic lifestyle"; none of it was circulating properly. It's the old adage "Flowing water never gets stale." Our bodies are not much different. 

 

(Proper) Breathing practices cause food, drugs, or any other substance to affect us differently than they would without. 

[Pavel Karavaev]

On 12.09.2017 at 1:59 AM, Jeff said:

I think once or twice can be eye opening for some with certain types of drugs. But, repeated usage just builds attachment and dependency. Also, any such substance inherently limits the relative depth of clarity of mind (or consciousness).

 

Yes, I also hold the same opinion.

Drugs use to increase sensitivity, but it does because consciousness starts to work differently  in consequence of  external influences. This result can not be fixed, since this requires a long work on oneself. Conversely, using drugs constantly someone can outfit their capacity for serious spiritual development.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Pavel Karavaev

[Boundlesscostfairy]

I have seen that drugs alter consciousness.. you get more energy, more and new insight.. contemplative directives, devices..

 

You would call it in spirituality insight meditation..

 

Because of the excess amounts of energy it has an entropic effect.. like you gain energy on the trip or whatever.. but then afterwards you have a comedown..

 

If you relax and go with the tao.. you dont need to lose energy in your sober consciousness..

 

But to actually be able to achieve these states without drugs.. you would probably need to be a Buddha!

[silent thunder]

Any longer, for me, anything which affects consciousness, I consider to be medicinal, not dietary.  Useful for certain responses, for shifting conditions and resonances... yet they no longer abide as they once did. 

 

From chemical/pharmaceutical agents, to entheogenic psycho-active plant and synthetic substances, to foods and beloved hobbies, to meditation. 

 

Unavoidably... gratefully and painfully, old patterns of thinking that brought comfort; whole paradigms of mental structure in viewing and relating to the universe, myself and the world "i" am part of, are realized to be little more than resonant mental matrixes not dissimilar to pills taken repeatedly for years to help create and sustain a desired condition of perception.

 

Nothing aside from awareness and breath are dietary any longer.

 

Only these remain.  The rest just breathes in and out of awareness.

[Bud Jetsun]

Drugs are just some of the 10,000 things, and none of them by themselves do anyone benefit. 

 

Used towards the purpose of benefiting one's perspective on the nature of reality, they all off something to learn just as every hike or bike ride or meditation offers the potential to reveal new perspective on the nature of reality if applied with mindful intent towards doing so. 

 

The first 3 decades of my life involved always declining every opportunity for a drug experience, as a misconception that something was more real or correct about the sober-perspective construct I was choosing to believe.  During this whole period, I was a non-spirtually aware, non-self-aware, discontented and serially womanizing and racing obsessed atheist scientist.  The little self-ego was the whole of my awareness of reality.  After being drugged by a friend with a heavy mushroom dose, I gained awareness what pilots my body is an indescribable spiritual being connected the whole indivisible Oneness, and never chose to stop recognizing and appreciating it as the nature of reality.  In the days after of meditation and introspective integration, the desire to share the discoveries about the nature of reality inspired attempting to write it all in a way to share it out of compassion for all beings needless choices to suffer.  It was after writing it and sharing it with the friend who drugged me that I was first pointed to look at Buddhism, discovered that other folks had already kindly written incredibly beautiful and often flawless poetry about the nature of reality. 

 

After that experience, exploration of all common and many uncommon entheogens occurred at the rate it was possible to integrate the powerful lessons from the previous experience, which started as week long intervals and quickly became multi-month long intervals and now it's years between.  Racing motorcycles where split second timing is the difference between life and death feels relaxed and comfortable compared to a 'spiritual-level' dose of an entheogen.  

 

Low-level doses offer nothing, if a person can still say or think the thoughts with words, or walk around, or know if their eyes are open or closed, they are just experiencing a recreational level dose.  If a being can only be silent and voluntarily remains silent in inexpressible awe and peace for days after, it's a sign the dose was right.  

 

The summation of all life's experiences combined seems insignificant compared to a single timeless moment of Oneness without concepts or constructs (including the little self's pointless chatter ceasing).  It never required drugs to appreciate it, but what an incredible gift from the universe to make dedicated receptors for certain chemicals to offer perspectives. 

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

Edited December 31, 2017 by Bud Jetsun

[Spotless]

Many years ago in my 19th or 20th year I very intentionally took some mushrooms. I was already meditating and was already reading all sorts of books on the subjects of the metaphysical. I did so in a well orchestrated setting in Tahoe with no worries and nothing to do but experience.

 

The experience was so profound that I determined that for the rest of my life I would seek to cultivate such states and higher sustained organically. Luckily I was already immersed in the traditions of patience and practice - anything that offered a quick solution was held at bay - that is not to say I was not anxious - but rather that the more anxious I was the more cushion time i did.

 

I reached far beyond that determination - sustained 

 

Like Bud's comment above - it was a pinnacle point - things had already begun to bring great fruit but this experience solidified a determination - nothing was the same after that. 

 

(In general i took very few drugs of this type = it was never recreational)

Edited December 31, 2017 by Spotless

[Pavel Karavaev]

10 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

But to actually be able to achieve these states without drugs.. you would probably need to be a Buddha!

 

That is the point i talking about. There are many interesting and pleasant discoveries on the way to achieve this state. But it takes time to reach it. Instead of that, many people are content just to become a "Buddha for an hour" with drugs.

In terms of practice, it's like putting a roof on the house before building a walls and before laying the foundation. And this is far away from the real achievements

Edited December 31, 2017 by Pavel Karavaev

[silent thunder]

Aye... medicinal, not dietary.

 

and the realization, no matter how it is induced... is always now.

[gj551]

is this ontopic? i dont know..

 

 

 

[Bud Jetsun]

Light doses of entheogens give light recreational level experiences. 

 

Extreme doses remove ALL constructs and aspects of constructs, including all concepts of words/language/thoughts and delusions of understanding.  

 

If a person can speak or understand words, or are capable of holding a mental construct/concept, they are not dosed adequately, as they are still sustaining their own state of confusion of what IS rather than appreciating what IS.

 

Extreme fasts, extreme feats of endurance, extreme injury or illness, and extreme doses of entheogens all offer a being opportunity to experience a new perspective of reality. Each experience offers new perspective. 

 

Before my first heavy entheogen experience I lived as a victim to a perpetually racing mind that seemed outside my control. My life choices centered around racing, womanizing, and amassing technology and resources. 

 

Post heavy entheogen experience, having recognized my mind was always perfectly under my control the whole time, and emperically understanding being a spiritual being temporarily piloting a loaned human vessel, every aspect of my life choices changed to reflect this new discovery.  Nothing settled back to the way it was before, as once a veil of confusion has been lifted, it will not reconstruct without one's choosing to do so. 

 

Each being is free to express their own confusion and delusions of what entheogens may offer, and are equally free to die having never experienced reality outside the confines of their mental indoctrination. 

 

Unlimited Love, 

-Bud

[Bud Jetsun]

On 12/31/2017 at 5:33 AM, Pavel Karavaev said:

 

That is the point i talking about. There are many interesting and pleasant discoveries on the way to achieve this state. But it takes time to reach it. Instead of that, many people are content just to become a "Buddha for an hour" with drugs.

In terms of practice, it's like putting a roof on the house before building a walls and before laying the foundation. And this is far away from the real achievements

 

 

Respectfully sir, having traveled the world visiting temples of various classic traditions, the common foundation is suffering in ignorance and clinging to dogmas.

 

It is not a foundation if someone else spoon feeds it to you.

 

It's not a foundation by just repeating some ritual on a regular basis. 

 

It's a foundation when every planet, star, blackhole, and galaxy are felt supporting you as an aspect of the same whole. 

 

There is no value in imitation of someone else's foundation which may once have been.

 

While this fleeting vessel is still operating, seek enriching experiences and embrace what comes in this one moment. 

 

Unlimited Love, 

-Bud

[dwai]

Interesting thing is, when one is firmly established in awareness, no substance can affect them. 

 

https://www.ramdass.org/ram-dass-gives-maharaji-the-yogi-medicine/

 

Quote

Ram Dass reflects on conscientiously dosing Maharaji with LSD

In 1967 when I first came to India, I brought with me a supply of LSD, hoping to find someone who might understand more about these substances than we did in the West.

When I had met Maharajji (Neem Karoli Baba), after some days the thought had crossed my mind that he would be a perfect person to ask. The next day after having that thought, I was called to him and he asked me immediately, “Do you have a question?”

Of course, being before him was such a powerful experience that I had completely forgotten the question I had had in my mind the night before. So I looked stupid and said, “No, Maharajji, I have no question.”He appeared irritated and said, “Where is the medicine?”

I was confused but Bhagavan Dass suggested, ” Maybe he means the LSD.” I asked and Maharajji nodded. The bottle of LSD was in the car and I was sent to fetch it. When I returned I emptied the vial of pills into my hand. In addition to the LSD there were a number of other pills for this and that–diarrhea, fever, a sleeping pill, and so forth. He asked about each of these.

He asked if they gave powers. I didn’t understand at the time and thought that by “powers” perhaps he meant physical strength. I said, “No.” Later, of course, I came to understand that the word he had used, “siddhis,” means psychic powers. Then he held out his hand for the LSD. I put one pill on his palm. Each of these pills was about three hundred micrograms of very pure LSD–a solid dose for an adult. He beckoned for more, so I put a second pill in his hand–six hundred micrograms. Again he beckoned and I added yet another, making the total dosage nine hundred micrograms–certainly not a dose for beginners. Then he threw all the pills into his mouth. My reaction was one of shock mixed with fascination of a social scientist eager to see what would happen.

He allowed me to stay for an hour– and nothing happened. Nothing whatsoever.

He just laughed at me.

The whole thing had happened very fast and unexpectedly. When I returned to the United States in 1968 I told many people about this acid feat. But there had remained in me a gnawing doubt that perhaps he had been putting me on and had thrown the pills over his shoulder or palmed them, because I hadn’t actually seen them go into his mouth.

Three years later, when I was back in India, he asked me one day, “Did you give me medicine when you were in India last time?”

“Yes.”

“Did I take it?” he asked. (Ah, there was my doubt made manifest!)

“I think you did.”

“What happened?

“Nothing.”

“Oh! Jao!” and he sent me off for the evening.

The next morning I was called over to the porch in front of his room, where he sat in the mornings on a tucket. He asked, “Have you got any more of that medicine?”

It just so happened that I was carrying a small supply of LSD for “just in case,” and this was obviously it. “Yes.”

“Get it,” he said.

So I did. In the bottle were five pills of three hundred micrograms each. One of the pills was broken. I placed them on my palm and held them out to him. He took the four unbroken pills. Then, one by one, very obviously and very deliberately, he placed each one in his mouth and swallowed it– another unspoken thought of mine now answered.

As soon as he had swallowed the last one, he asked, “Can I take water?”

“Yes.”

“Hot or cold?”

“It doesn’t matter.”

He started yelling for water and drank a cup when it was brought.

Then he asked, “How long will it take to act?”

“Anywhere from twenty minutes to an hour.”

He called for an older man, a long -time devotee who had a watch, and Maharajji held the man’s wrist, often pulling it up to him to peer at the watch.

Then he asked,” Will it make me crazy?”

That seemed so bizarre to me that I could only go along with what seemed to be a gag.

So I said, “Probably.”

And then we waited. After some time he pulled the blanket over his face, and when he came out after a moment his eyes were rolling and his mouth was ajar and he looked totally mad. I got upset. What was happening? Had I misjudged his powers? After all, he was an old man (though how old I had no idea), and I had let him take twelve hundred micrograms. Maybe last time he had thrown them away and then he read my mind and was trying to prove to me he could do it, not realizing how strong the “medicine” really was. Guilt and anxiety poured through me. But when I looked at him again he was perfectly normal and looking at the watch.

At the end of an hour it was obvious nothing had happened. His reactions had been a total put-on. And then he asked, “Have you got anything stronger?” I didn’t. Then he said, “These medicines were used in Kullu Valley long ago. But yogis have lost that knowledge. They were used with fasting. Nobody knows now. To take them with no effect, your mind must be firmly fixed on God. Others would be afraid to take. Many saints would not take this.” And he left it at that.

When I asked him if I should take LSD again, he said, “It should not be taken in a hot climate. If you are in a place that is cool and peaceful, and you are alone and your mind is turned toward God, then you may take the yogi medicine.”

– Ram Dass

 

[Lataif]

Cannabis seems to be the most versatile such substance:

 

-- dozens of different cannabinoids in each plant

-- hundreds of different strains and hybrids of the plant

-- billions of different personalities with which to interact

-- gazillions of different applications, effects, possibilities

 

Any disagreement on that (?)

 

Is there any other substance that even comes close (?)

[Miffymog]

 

Just a link to a similar thread where some of these issues have also been discussed. I read an article where some one had a brain scan while on LSD. They found the effect of the drug was to restrict blood flow the areas of the brain which deals with who we think we are and where we think we are. The result was to diminish ones sense of self and location.

 

 

Edit - although I do get quite drunk twice a week, so each to his own I guess.

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Miffymog

[Bud Jetsun]

It's wonderful as a tool for muscle spasms, reduced inflammation effectively on my recently broken rib.  I've never had cannabis induce level 5(no self concept). 

 

I did get level 3+ with it one time. Early into dating my future wife I told her I didn't think cannabis worked on me. She gave me an extreme OD amount for someone with high tolerance and my body had no cannabis tolerance. 

 

I've never had it go beyond level 2 with it since at any experimental dosage, including 2,000mg edibles. Still fantastic natural medicine for care of the body and relaxation. 

 

Mushrooms, LSD, Mescaline, DMT, MXE, Ketamine, the expansive 2C-(x) group, 25I-NBOMe, and many of the dozens of new 'research chemicals' released each year offer Level 5 at adequate dosage (many times beyond a comfortable dose). It also requires committing to experience the nature of reality and not choosing to stop. Laying on my back in a  dark room on towels to protect bedding. Fasting the previous day and trip day is a matter of convenience and potency effectiveness. 

 

Alternatives that also can achieve level 5 but are brutal include LSA, Ibogaine, Muscimol, and a handful of snake, insect, and marine animal venoms.  I only personally confirmed the first 3 on this list before sticking with the ample variety in the above paragraph. 

 

Entheogens used in spiritual level doses have a sharp reverse addiction curve, trending towards longer intervals between uses until its many years between experiences or never again. 

 

Unlimited Love, 

-Bud

 

 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Drugs make people think more abstractly than they usually would..but that makes a lasting imprint on their newer preached social interactions.. Forgiveness is more possible with the boundary dissolving effects..

[Rara]

I don't see what the difference is between taking a drug, drinking coffee, eating chocolate or broccoli.

 

All of the above can alter your mental and physical wellbeing.

 

Taking too many drugs has consequences, but believe me, so does eating too many veggies. You could claim one is worse than the other but that aside, microdosing surely has to be less harmful than eating 5 boxes of chocolate a night.

 

*Disclaimer - If you do smoke a lot of weed, be prepared to eat 5 boxes of chocolate in a night

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Rara
Picky with phrasing.

[silent thunder]

Anything that can affect my experience of life, consciousness or awareness, I consider a drug.  I'm with you Rara.

 

The obvious drugs, prescription meds and the myriad of self medicating street drugs are what are normally considered a drug.

 

But to me, Food-coffee-sugar-booze, Sex, Cannabis, enthoegenic plants... all exert a drug like effect on my emotional state and consciousness and are often not considered a drug, so never enter awareness when addressing health.   Yet all of those mentioned are subject to abusive overuse that is detrimental to health and vitality, or balanced use that accents and supports health and boosts vitality.

 

At first I focused on what I put in my body to heal and find balance.

Then I began to pay attention to what I was putting on my body, in toothpaste, body soaps and clothes detergents.

Last few years, far more imortant to either of those for overal well being... has been what I allow myself to ruminate on and think about... what I choose to engage with in my mind on a daily basis.   I am down to only three bookmarks for the internet.  I have winnowed down my exposure to all forms of media to small, controlled bursts.  Bums is an exception, almost all my time on the internet is spent here.  Yet even here, I decide to limit what sorts of topics I will engage in, where I will spend my energy in conversation due to the effects topics and tones of conversation have on my consciousness.

 

Think about the power some conversations here have on our being.  The primal reactions to some phrases and topics when disagreement arises... or the empathy engaged when we resonate in agreement. 

 

Both of these are powerful drug like effects... often far more subtley impacting than a couple beers popped for a few hours of pleasant feelings in the abdomen and fuzziness in the mind.

 

How many drugs in our lives have no form or physical shape and so go beneath notice, continuing to exert massive influence on us, without any awareness?

 

Facebook likes, forum post reactions, news articles that support, or contradict our political dispositions... conversations about religious concepts or political shoulds and shouldn'ts.... drugs everywhere. 

 

Presence, awareness and beingness seem to counteract my ability to go too far with any one of them.

[Oneironaut]

I hear of people getting all blissed out through MCO practice alone. They compare it to the blissed out experience of MDMA (ecstasy) except it’s far more intense and doesn’t come with the drawback of making someone a physical and psychological shipwreck. I never opened the MCO and I hate drugs so I can’t really comment as to the validity of that. 

 

I also heard of people using yogic breathing exercises that enhances their 5 senses comparable to that of the experience of marijuana. Again, all of the benefits and none of the side effects. I don’t have any experience in either so I cannot comment. 

 

Can someone with experience in one or both verify the validity of these claims? 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Oneironaut

[Bud Jetsun]

2 hours ago, Oneironaut said:

I hear of people getting all blissed out through MCO practice alone. They compare it to the blissed out experience of MDMA (ecstasy) except it’s far more intense and doesn’t come with the drawback of making someone a physical and psychological shipwreck. I never opened the MCO and I hate drugs so I can’t really comment as to the validity of that. 

 

I also heard of people using yogic breathing exercises that enhances their 5 senses comparable to that of the experience of marijuana. Again, all of the benefits and none of the side effects. I don’t have any experience in either so I cannot comment. 

 

Can someone with experience in one or both verify the validity of these claims? 

 

 

There is no hard-requirement for any drug to experience any state of being,  as all states of being are a choice of how one chooses to interpret and receive Now.   

 

MDMA in my own experience is not unpleasant,  and a useful tool for introspection, but I've never  reached even level 2 with it at any dosage.   It is an amazing experience booster drug to combine with shrooms and/or LSD, but on it's own it's tough to even detect if you took any IMHO. 

 

Without plant/drug assistance the probability of success of experiencing level 5 approaches ~0% even if you spent a lifetime dedicated towards nothing but that experience.  Each being is free to die having never glimpsed reality beyond their own comfortable cage of indoctrinated confusions of what the nature of reality may be. 

 

Once that veil of illusion of little self has been lifted, even if only for a short duration, a being may optionally choose to never view themselves as the little self again, and this discovery and awareness of ones true Self makes it optional to ever choose to pointlessly suffer any aspects of this fleeting moment in a body again.    This joy is immeasurably liberating beyond any 'high' and unbreakable without ones own consensual choice to be in-compassionate to themselves unnecessarily. 

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

A strong dose of ayahuasca or formosahuasca will enable 4 hours of nonstop full lotus meditation with a loud OM sound from the heart as the jing converts to shen via the 2nd chakra opening up -

 

Salvia in full lotus also activates the kundalini

 

But these are just tools to help activate the serotonin kundalini energy - whereas qi energy is more powerful than an electrochemical means.

 

But diet is key to the qi training - you want to build up serotonin and potassium - so salt will shut down your energy channels. Sugar creates free radicals against the qi - and cortisol. Coffee increases cortisol. Alcohol activates the sympathetic nervous system.

 

So pretty much modern civilization food goes against advanced training - food is a drug as much as just energy.

 

advanced meditation is based on fasting.

 

So - the San Bushmen did use some kind of psychedelic as a tool to help activate the N/om energy  - but it was considered not the real thing.

 

But then again they also did not have sugar nor salt - you can get sodium from vegetables and - I mean they ate honey some times and fruit. But over all - food itself is a kind of drug - so ideally the diet is limited.

 

But if you do try a psychedelic visionary plant-root combo as used in the Amazon rainforest - this is a very strong medicine. It definitely takes you into a beyond death astral realm - but it is the qi energy that enables this realm to not just succumb to subconscious visions.

 

If you just rely on electrochemical means to access the spirit light - then your qi is not strong enough and so your thalamus subconscious becomes too real. The qi energy means you can consciously control your thalamus limbic brain  and so over-ride the subconscious downloading of the images.

 

So you will have visions but you will also be able to analyze them in real time as subconscious visions - without thinking they are real.

 

Similarly we need to be able to control our dreams and analyze them - and so eating too much salt will keep a person awake or alcohol will destroy the dreams or have like salt - too much awake - depending on what part of the sleep cycle. 

 

So caffeine is the most common psychotropic drug - and so it decreases blood flow to the brain by blocking the dopamine receptors. Alcohol blocks the GABA receptors.

 

So caffeine is not as bad from green tea - since it does not activate the cortisol as much as coffee does. But still for meditation you want to increase the serotonin - and so if you have caffeine it keeps the neurotransmitters stuck in the dopamine.

 

Of course if you do strong standing active exercise - you can more easily burn through these imbalances.

 

Like the Kervan transformations - deep oxygen plus electromagnetic increase transforms sodium into potassium.

 

Meditation is then using your ego - as a kind of controlled visionary quest - whereas a strong psychedelic will drop the blood flow to the brain and instead causes a deeper biophoton subconscious activation - just as a mantra will shut down the prefrontal cortex so these deeper connections can become dominant - but with a strong visionary plant-bark - you can not choose to stop the mantra - it has to wear off. The plant-bark drug is in control of your mind and you have to wait.

 

So meditation is rather seeking out no thing being in control - instead of switching your ego for a plant-bark drug - you tune your ego to switch to nothing being in control - or resonance with the source of reality itself.

 

This is why Master Nan, Huai-chin says for successful meditation you have to use a very strong ego - you have to be very selfish in order to have the focus to build up the energy to go beyond the Self as the ego. Or Ramana Maharshi says you have to use your mind to kill the mind - so to speak. It is a paradox since our ego disappears every night in deep dreamless sleep yet we can infer something must remain if we are aware in reality - we are not just biological machines?

 

So taking drugs is just switching over to a different kind of biological machine - it can take you into spiritual realms of visions but visions are not the ultimate reality - the mind can not be seen. But we can logically infer its existence, as we do from after deep dreamless sleep. We wake up going - oh I had a blissful sleep and I really needed that. So we were not aware of the bliss when it happened but only after the fact. And so in deep meditation - as Ramana Maharshi says - the mind gets so strong as spirit light that you can not feel your body, nor does even the physical universe exist anymore - and so also your sense of ego disappears into the light. And so just as in deep dreamless sleep - then you wake up realizing that the real you is neither your mind nor your body, nor your physical surroundings.

 

So no drug can do that because even if you are tripping out and everything is light - your mind is still gonna wonder - from where does the light come from? And the real question is who is thinking that? And so you can only logically infer the answer or listen to the source of the light, in silence, thereby resonating with the source of the light. So you could even have visions of the future that come true - which begs the question - which was more real? YOur vision of the future or when it happened in the present (the 2nd time).  We might realize from strong drugs that our whole life has been a dream that ended in a flash of light, just as a dream does while asleep - but that still does not mean there is something that remains that we can not see.

[Pavel Karavaev]

On 24.04.2018 at 10:31 PM, Bud Jetsun said:

It's a foundation when every planet, star, blackhole, and galaxy are felt supporting you as an aspect of the same whole. 

 

I see you know what  the powerful staff is 

[Bud Jetsun]

Respectfully sir, if your dosage and/or choice to cling to mind delusion remains and thought and concepts are possible, it's not a spiritual level dose.  If done right, there are no illusions of self and no residue of what self may have been.  No constructs and no residue of what constructs may have been.  No expressible aspects or a concept of what expression may be.  

Pure indescribable unfiltered awareness of being Now is all that remains.  This supra-mind timeless state experience even for a moment is more life-enriching than the summation of all human life activity/experience. 

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

 

 

 

3 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

A strong dose of ayahuasca or formosahuasca will enable 4 hours of nonstop full lotus meditation with a loud OM sound from the heart as the jing converts to shen via the 2nd chakra opening up -

 

Salvia in full lotus also activates the kundalini

 

But these are just tools to help activate the serotonin kundalini energy - whereas qi energy is more powerful than an electrochemical means.

 

But diet is key to the qi training - you want to build up serotonin and potassium - so salt will shut down your energy channels. Sugar creates free radicals against the qi - and cortisol. Coffee increases cortisol. Alcohol activates the sympathetic nervous system.

 

So pretty much modern civilization food goes against advanced training - food is a drug as much as just energy.

 

advanced meditation is based on fasting.

 

So - the San Bushmen did use some kind of psychedelic as a tool to help activate the N/om energy  - but it was considered not the real thing.

 

But then again they also did not have sugar nor salt - you can get sodium from vegetables and - I mean they ate honey some times and fruit. But over all - food itself is a kind of drug - so ideally the diet is limited.

 

But if you do try a psychedelic visionary plant-root combo as used in the Amazon rainforest - this is a very strong medicine. It definitely takes you into a beyond death astral realm - but it is the qi energy that enables this realm to not just succumb to subconscious visions.

 

If you just rely on electrochemical means to access the spirit light - then your qi is not strong enough and so your thalamus subconscious becomes too real. The qi energy means you can consciously control your thalamus limbic brain  and so over-ride the subconscious downloading of the images.

 

So you will have visions but you will also be able to analyze them in real time as subconscious visions - without thinking they are real.

 

Similarly we need to be able to control our dreams and analyze them - and so eating too much salt will keep a person awake or alcohol will destroy the dreams or have like salt - too much awake - depending on what part of the sleep cycle. 

 

So caffeine is the most common psychotropic drug - and so it decreases blood flow to the brain by blocking the dopamine receptors. Alcohol blocks the GABA receptors.

 

So caffeine is not as bad from green tea - since it does not activate the cortisol as much as coffee does. But still for meditation you want to increase the serotonin - and so if you have caffeine it keeps the neurotransmitters stuck in the dopamine.

 

Of course if you do strong standing active exercise - you can more easily burn through these imbalances.

 

Like the Kervan transformations - deep oxygen plus electromagnetic increase transforms sodium into potassium.

 

Meditation is then using your ego - as a kind of controlled visionary quest - whereas a strong psychedelic will drop the blood flow to the brain and instead causes a deeper biophoton subconscious activation - just as a mantra will shut down the prefrontal cortex so these deeper connections can become dominant - but with a strong visionary plant-bark - you can not choose to stop the mantra - it has to wear off. The plant-bark drug is in control of your mind and you have to wait.

 

So meditation is rather seeking out no thing being in control - instead of switching your ego for a plant-bark drug - you tune your ego to switch to nothing being in control - or resonance with the source of reality itself.

 

This is why Master Nan, Huai-chin says for successful meditation you have to use a very strong ego - you have to be very selfish in order to have the focus to build up the energy to go beyond the Self as the ego. Or Ramana Maharshi says you have to use your mind to kill the mind - so to speak. It is a paradox since our ego disappears every night in deep dreamless sleep yet we can infer something must remain if we are aware in reality - we are not just biological machines?

 

So taking drugs is just switching over to a different kind of biological machine - it can take you into spiritual realms of visions but visions are not the ultimate reality - the mind can not be seen. But we can logically infer its existence, as we do from after deep dreamless sleep. We wake up going - oh I had a blissful sleep and I really needed that. So we were not aware of the bliss when it happened but only after the fact. And so in deep meditation - as Ramana Maharshi says - the mind gets so strong as spirit light that you can not feel your body, nor does even the physical universe exist anymore - and so also your sense of ego disappears into the light. And so just as in deep dreamless sleep - then you wake up realizing that the real you is neither your mind nor your body, nor your physical surroundings.

 

So no drug can do that because even if you are tripping out and everything is light - your mind is still gonna wonder - from where does the light come from? And the real question is who is thinking that? And so you can only logically infer the answer or listen to the source of the light, in silence, thereby resonating with the source of the light. So you could even have visions of the future that come true - which begs the question - which was more real? YOur vision of the future or when it happened in the present (the 2nd time).  We might realize from strong drugs that our whole life has been a dream that ended in a flash of light, just as a dream does while asleep - but that still does not mean there is something that remains that we can not see.