Levels of conscious mind residing...

[allinone]

as an example when i say you are an idiot then quickly run away without a trace, then there a gem will stay in the clouds what can be used.

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, allinone said:

 

Sry for wrong idea, i think you have said it before too somewhere that you aren't astral traveler in simplistic terms.

But im sure there is some explanation what could make us all subconsciously astral travelers.

 

If you check out the other thread that spun off from this one, you will see that things like astral travel are found at level 6. Astral travel is possible when one has started to consciously notice aspects of universal mind.

[allinone]

8 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

If you check out the other thread that spun off from this one, you will see that things like astral travel are found at level 6. Astral travel is possible when one has started to consciously notice aspects of universal mind.

 

ok took a peek.

 

i am with the fetter model. I need stop the leaks model. And for now i am almost used to admit i am wrong, it still ridiculously painful to do basically to admit i am wrong to a infidel, what is itself wrong thing to do but still i learned to do it.

 

[allinone]

7 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

That is very much not the case. And a totally unfair statement. 

 

yes, the op is not that case, i know i think what is it all about. I won't tell but it is about visiting.

[Nungali]

...

Edited September 28, 2017 by Nungali

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, allinone said:

 

What is an astral travel? i'm sure i have wrong idea that first thought is it you will separate from a physical body and the astral form is same reality as the physical body is.

I mean THE body you get is way huge claim. You can make a solid rock as your pillow.

 

so so a talk about astral traveling is derogatory when an alchemist can't do it but have meditated a long time. Then you hear about naturals who can do it at a whim, so years later you start hearing about that astral travel is equated with imagination etc.

 

Its not equated with imagination, but it is stimulated with imagination .

[allinone]

14 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Its not equated with imagination, but it is stimulated with imagination .

 

but how you go out side the body then? i meant that the so called astral travelers are not able to tell how, but go for methods instead. And most popular thing is that fear or illuminati have calcified the pineal gland.

 

while calcification is a possibility it has logic, since in certain conditions your entire body can turn into minerals. So what is the process, i am organic for now, dependable on reproduction otherwise i start calcify, bla bla. what is the next thing from organic?

Edited September 29, 2017 by allinone

[Wizz]

Edited October 12, 2017 by Wizz

[Wizz]

On 28. 09. 2017. at 2:50 PM, Jeff said:

 

I am saying that once one has realized the “light level” or light body. They know that physical death of the body is not really that important or a big deal.

 

 

Upon light level realization (and ongoing expansion), having another physical form becomes sort of like a choice. Some move on to other realms, some stick around to help, some do not manifest at physical for a while.

 

 

The difference is in both method and terms of description. What the group does is not exactly the same as astral travel, but the results create the same sort of affect. Kind of like trying to comparing flying somewhere to teleporting. But all seeing stuff happens at astral levels. Maybe a better analogy is using warp engines to get somewhere, but need conventual engines to visit the place.

 

 

 

How can you appreciate being alive if you can't appreciate death for what it is? You do go to work and do care for your family right? If its not so important and you are still doing it then you might as well develop your astral body and turn into a immortal and stick around for some more time then what is expected in this modern age.

[Jeff]

45 minutes ago, Wizz said:

 

How can you appreciate being alive if you can't appreciate death for what it is? You do go to work and do care for your family right? If its not so important and you are still doing it then you might as well develop your astral body and turn into a immortal and stick around for some more time then what is expected in this modern age.

 

Yes, I still go to work, and love my family. But fear of death, is simply another fear. And that fear can easily cloud your ability to appreciate life. Also, nothing wrong with developing an astral body, it can be a lot of fun, with some very interesting stuff.

[Aletheia]

On 9/23/2017 at 4:32 PM, Jeff said:

And if you think of your favorite guru of maybe residing in comparison of a mountain top in height, this is like living on the moon in comparison.

 

Someone who browses taobums has attained something never before understood to all previous gurus? Reminds me of that TV programme Space Cadets LOL

 

 

 

[Kar3n]

1 hour ago, Aletheia said:

 

Someone who browses taobums has attained something never before understood to all previous gurus? Reminds me of that TV programme Space Cadets LOL

 

 

 

How can you say for certain what has or has not been understood by another person, guru or not?

[Mudfoot]

The comparison made by Jeff sort of implies that. 

 

A "my kung fu is better than your kung fu" sort of a line. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Mudfoot
Added sentence

[Jeff]

4 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

The comparison made by Jeff sort of implies that. 

 

A "my kung fu is better than your kung fu" sort of a line. 

 

That was really not my intent.  As I have described in many posts in this thread, it was more talking about the "formless nature" of the residing. Not trying to say that any guru is better than any other guru (at being a guru  ).

 

Also, the spinoff thread further describes what I mean about levels and layers in such a context.

[Aletheia]

2 hours ago, Kar3n said:

How can you say for certain what has or has not been understood by another person, guru or not?

 

Jeff is not in a position to say what someone has or has not achieved concerning levels beyond his understanding (obviously). This is clear, not only by the statement, but by the metaphors he's using concerning elevation and ascendancy.

 

What we yoke is right before us (and within) right now, yesterday, tomorrow, here and there etc all-at-once. Direction -- up and down -- is a form of degenerate dualistic type thinking which unfolds into ideas of locomotion, uniform space, linear time, self-subsistent entities with stable predicates (ego/soul/mind) etc.

 

Besides what he's claiming is offensive to real gurus and is no different to the endless John Chang/Mo Pai narratives we hear -- I know something but I can't tell you about it because you're not in a privileged position like myself.

 

It's bullshit on so many levels. I could say more, but what's the point?

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Aletheia

[Mudfoot]

The down side of writing anything down is that even after you have tried to explain yourself, your original statement is still going to irritate someone. 

 

Keeps the forum going though.... 

[Kar3n]

9 minutes ago, Aletheia said:

 

Jeff is not in a position to say what someone has or has not achieved concerning levels beyond his understanding (obviously). This is clear, not only by the statement, but by the metaphors he's using concerning elevation and ascendancy.

 

What we yoke is right before us (and within) right now, yesterday, tomorrow, here and there etc all-at-once. Direction -- up and down -- is a form of degenerate dualistic type thinking which unfolds into ideas of locomotion, uniform space, linear time, self-subsistent entities with stable predicates (ego/soul/mind) etc.

 

Besides what he's claiming is offensive to real gurus and is no different to the endless John Chang/Mo Pai narratives we hear -- I know something but I can't tell you about it because you're not in a privileged position like myself.

 

It's bullshit on so many levels. I could say more, but what's the point?

 

OK, thanks for your opinion.

[Aletheia]

6 minutes ago, Kar3n said:

OK, thanks for your opinion.

 

Thanks for asking for my opinion, Kar3n.

 

 

 

[Aletheia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Cadets_(TV_series)#Psychological_aspect

[thursday]

Comparing different groups, teachers, teachings can be useful to get some insight on your path, but even those that consider themselves high level practitioners/adepts/teachers can be wrong about other high level practitioners/adepts/teachers.. It's not because one has had this and that experience of the divine, that they are beyond making mistakes, maybe even huge mistakes!?

 

From what I have observed on the internet there are generally two directions/paths. One is most commonly found and is focussed on gaining abilities and that can be a workable path, but doesn't necessarily lead to the end of suffering/enlightenment faster. The other is focussed on objective observation, which sounds more mundane, but from my (unenlightened) view, it's faster to end suffering because it doesn't have as much potential to get stuck. In the end mistakes can still be made, and it's up to the practitioner themselves (in either system/path) to progress or not so much.

[Jeff]

10 minutes ago, thursday said:

Comparing different groups, teachers, teachings can be useful to get some insight on your path, but even those that consider themselves high level practitioners/adepts/teachers can be wrong about other high level practitioners/adepts/teachers.. It's not because one has had this and that experience of the divine, that they are beyond making mistakes, maybe even huge mistakes!?

 

From what I have observed on the internet there are generally two directions/paths. One is most commonly found and is focussed on gaining abilities and that can be a workable path, but doesn't necessarily lead to the end of suffering/enlightenment faster. The other is focussed on objective observation, which sounds more mundane, but from my (unenlightened) view, it's faster to end suffering because it doesn't have as much potential to get stuck. In the end mistakes can still be made, and it's up to the practitioner themselves (in either system/path) to progress or not so much.

 

I think you raise a good and interesting point.  Definitely agree it can be a trap to pursue powers as that is by definition feeding the ego.  But also, I think there is a trap in observation, but never really every clearing any underlying issue, and thinking yourself "enlightened" when still being whipsawed by subconscious stuff.

 

I think the great Kashmir Shaivism master Abhinavagupta, touches on this point well...

 

"The question is thus appropriate because contentment (enlightenment) is not possible without a conscious realization. Contentment is of two kinds. The first is effected by means of absorption (samavesa) and consists of magical powers. The second is attained by reaching a condition of conscious heart-felt realization, and it is the state of being liberated while still alive."

 

-Triadic Heart of Siva

[thursday]

Sincerity is what informs people wether or not they are still suffering. It seems simple self observation, one and one is two? Both paths can lead to the gaining of magical abilities, but making the point from the start that these abilities will just be more phenomena.. In my view that makes the possible amount of beneficial inertia towards the end of suffering in a lifetime greater than starting the other way around. But a complete beginner may not even know of different ways, at least I never knew till I had my own experiences. Either way, it's always good to have a practise because that encourages doing things yourself, putting in your own time and effort rather than "enlightenment" by popping a pill kind of thing..

Edited October 12, 2017 by thursday

[Jeff]

14 minutes ago, thursday said:

Sincerity is what informs people wether or not they are still suffering. It seems simple self observation, one and one is two? Both paths can lead to the gaining of magical abilities, but making the point from the start that these abilities will just be more phenomena.. In my view that makes the possible amount of beneficial inertia towards the end of suffering in a lifetime greater than starting the other way around. But a complete beginner may not even know of different ways, at least I never knew till I had my own experiences. Either way, it's always good to have a practise because that encourages doing things yourself, putting in your own time and effort rather than "enlightenment" by popping a pill kind of thing..

 

While I would agree that chasing abilities is a trap, I would say that a balanced approach of both observation and energy work can be advantageous.  With observation alone, it is possible to fall into a hole and never even notice it is a hole.  While with the addition of energy work, one quickly will notice that hole.  For me, silence and energy are just two sides of the same coin.  While it may seem so for a while, it is not possible to truly have one without the other.

[thursday]

Agreed.. I see it similarly, when I'm able to be more focussed/silent, it's easier to notice an increase in energies (which were already there). For me more conscious attention to quality of focus leads to more silence/softening, which gets "me" more out of the way to notice subtleties.

 

Recognizing subtleties and going into them.. I seemed to be better at that when I was starting out years ago.. Had quite a detour in a few different ways, but I'm not giving up.

[allinone]

From : The Sutra of Consummate Enlightenment

 

A small quote of it, page 57

 

“Virtuous Man, ever since Time Incipientless of yore,
all the Multibeings, due to all kinds of Enamoring

Attachments and Avaricious Desires, have brought
about their own Transmigration. In all the worlds, for
all genera of Multibeings, namely, the Egg-begotten,
the Womb-begotten, the Moisture-begotten and the
Transformation-begotten, they all procure their own
Vitality through Carnal Desire. Hence, it should be
known that Transmigration is founded on the basis
of Lust. All kinds of Desires assist in developing the
Disposition of Lust. Consequently Nascence and Demise
are capacitated to continue interminably. Desires
are begotten on account of Enamoredness; and Life,
in turn, subsists itself upon Desires. The Multibeings’
Lust for their own Lives, eventually speaking, falls
back on Desires as its font: The Lust for Desires being
the Cause, the Lust for Life becomes the Effect.
Therewithal, the various Circumstantial Desiderata
would bring about either favorable or unfavorable sensations
for them. When the Circumstance contravenes
one’s Inclination of Lust, one would engender Resentment
and Jealousy; whereby one would perpetrate all
kinds of Karmas on that account. As a consequence, it
would give rise to Purgatory-hood or Starving Ghosthood.
On the other hand, when one becomes aware

that Desires are detestable, one would revert to the
love for the Karma-Detesting Modus, insofar that one
would start to abnegate Vices and appreciate Virtues.
In consequence, the Celestial Realm or Human Realm
shall be manifested to one. And due to their awareness
that all Lust or Attachments are detestable, they
would come to forsake Attachments and to enjoy the
abnegation of it; nevertheless, oftentimes these would
still relapse to replenish the Font of Attachment, which
would result in the manifestation of Meritorious Fructescence
of Implementality. For all of these are still
subject to Transmigration, consequently, as such, they
could not lead to the attainment of the Holy Bodhi.
Therefore, the Multibeings, who wish to be liberated
from Nascence-Demise, so as to be exempted from
Transmigrations, at the very outset, would have to exterminate
their Avaricious Desires as well as to extinguish
the Thirst for Enamoredness.

Edited October 14, 2017 by allinone