Levels of conscious mind residing...

[Jeff]

The purpose of this thread is really just to highlight the accomplishment (or reality) of what one of our members has done for an extended period. What people often call consciousness has a zero level, then many levels/layers of relative form and astral stuff, and then beyond that are the various formless realms. While this member is now back to residing more at the higher end of form layers (super guru stuff), the member spent over a year residing at what can only be described astronomically high (or fine) levels of formless realms. It is hard to describe, but this is way beyond what some traditions call “god realms”. And if you think of your favorite guru of maybe residing in comparison of a mountain top in height, this is like living on the moon in comparison.

 

Just thought you might be interested. 

 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

The purpose of this thread is really just to highlight the accomplishment (or reality) of what one of our members has done for an extended period. What people often call consciousness has a zero level, then many levels/layers of relative form and astral stuff, and then beyond that are the various formless realms. While this member is now back to residing more at the higher end of form layers (super guru stuff), the member spent over a year residing at what can only be described astronomically high (or fine) levels of formless realms. It is hard to describe, but this is way beyond what some traditions call “god realms”. And if you think of your favorite guru of maybe residing in comparison of a mountain top in height, this is like living on the moon in comparison.

 

Just thought you might be interested. 

 

 

Jeff,

 

With the greatest respect (and since you chose to post this is General Discussion which clearly exists to discuss things) while deduce from the 'thanks' received for this post some people understand it - from my perspective it just says 'someone I know not who, has done something I know not what' - as your explanation of levels/layers is well beyond me it really does not serve the purpose intended 'to highlight accomplishment' since I still don't know what this accomplishment is and who it is who accomplished it.  If you are talking to a specific group who already know the context of your post should it be in General Discussion - or otherwise would you care to explain what this is all about?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Jeff]

7 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Jeff,

 

With the greatest respect (and since you chose to post this is General Discussion which clearly exists to discuss things) while deduce from the 'thanks' received for this post some people understand it - from my perspective it just says 'someone I know not who, has done something I know not what' - as your explanation of levels/layers is well beyond me it really does not serve the purpose intended 'to highlight accomplishment' since I still don't know what this accomplishment is and who it is who accomplished it.  If you are talking to a specific group who already know the context of your post should it be in General Discussion - or otherwise would you care to explain what this is all about?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Sorry, if there is some confusion. No, I know the person very well. My statement was meant to be something like... “someone has done something very rare (and cool), so I thought I would tell you about it, but it is not my place to “out” the person.” More a statement of human potential than anything else.

[Apech]

8 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Sorry, if there is some confusion. No, I know the person very well. My statement was meant to be something like... “someone has done something very rare (and cool), so I thought I would tell you about it, but it is not my place to “out” the person.” More a statement of human potential than anything else.

 

 

I'm not sure as yet that there is enough information to get confused.  But I wasn't really asking you to 'out' someone - I can see why that might be difficult.

[RiverSnake]

Congrats on the gnosis, love breaking through to new layers. Make sure not to fly away for good. Cheers. 

[allinone]

I think literal fetters model criteria is possible. That means biological sensual urges are possible to overcome. And body of light.

 

[Fa Xin]

Edit:

nevermind. Answered my own q

Edited September 24, 2017 by Fa Xin

[bax44]

2 hours ago, allinone said:

I think literal fetters model criteria is possible. That means biological sensual urges are possible to overcome. And body of light.

 

 

Your reply makes me want face punch. supress urge to learn, fight fire with bacon fat.

[allinone]

12 minutes ago, bax44 said:

 

Your reply makes me want face punch. supress urge to learn, fight fire with bacon fat.

 

I was not matching the burden of this thread with my sentence. Something i can't yet handle. So i wrote a sentence what suffocate the sensation what i felt.

[C T]

On 9/23/2017 at 5:32 PM, Jeff said:

The purpose of this thread is really just to highlight the accomplishment (or reality) of what one of our members has done for an extended period. What people often call consciousness has a zero level, then many levels/layers of relative form and astral stuff, and then beyond that are the various formless realms. While this member is now back to residing more at the higher end of form layers (super guru stuff), the member spent over a year residing at what can only be described astronomically high (or fine) levels of formless realms. It is hard to describe, but this is way beyond what some traditions call “god realms”. And if you think of your favorite guru of maybe residing in comparison of a mountain top in height, this is like living on the moon in comparison.

 

Just thought you might be interested. 

 

I wish I had the same level of tact and patience as Apech, but I dont. 

 

Just want to express my doubt which to me sounds like nonsense. Unless of course Jeff wrote this tongue in cheek, which is unlikely gauging from nos. of thanks. 

 

It just seems very odd that your expressed interest to highlight someone else's accomplishment did not include the revelation of identity. Dont take this wrong, Jeff... but to me, this sounds like, "Hey, I have the siddhi to recognise super-level attainment in another, so please take me more seriously in future." Or, "I know with certainty another's spiritual progress. Please engage me should you want confirmation of your level of spiritual attainment." 

 

I'm going like, "Really?" 

 

Please dont take this personally, Jeff. Its just me mouthing off. What do i know. 

 

Btw, i have no interest to know who this is referencing, so no pressure, ok. 

[Jeff]

10 minutes ago, C T said:

I wish I had the same level of tact and patience as Apech, but I dont. 

 

Just want to express my doubt which to me sounds like nonsense. Unless of course Jeff wrote this tongue in cheek, which is unlikely gauging from nos. of thanks. 

 

It just seems very odd that your expressed interest to highlight someone else's accomplishment did not include the revelation of identity. Dont take this wrong, Jeff... but to me, this sounds like, "Hey, I have the siddhi to recognise super-level attainment in another, so please take me more seriously in future." Or, "I know with certainty another's spiritual progress. Please engage me should you want confirmation of your level of spiritual attainment." 

 

I'm going like, "Really?" 

 

Please dont take this personally, Jeff. Its just me mouthing off. What do i know. 

 

Btw, i have no interest to know who this is referencing, so no pressure, ok. 

 

No offense at all. Even though that was not my intent, can definitely see how you could interpret it that way.

 

Best to you CT.

[C T]

45 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

No offense at all. Even though that was not my intent, can definitely see how you could interpret it that way.

 

Best to you CT.

Thank you, Jeff. 

 

So what is the actual motive? 

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, C T said:

Thank you, Jeff. 

 

So what is the actual motive? 

 

Sorry to disappoint, but simply as stated in the OP...

 

“The purpose of this thread is really just to highlight the accomplishment (or reality) of what one of our members has done for an extended period...”

 

And no worries, I was also not in some way backhand describing myself (as some have asked). Just thought it was very cool, and wanted to share something that I thought was positive (and interesting) with the bums.  

[C T]

56 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Sorry to disappoint, but simply as stated in the OP...

 

“The purpose of this thread is really just to highlight the accomplishment (or reality) of what one of our members has done for an extended period...”

 

And no worries, I was also not in some way backhand describing myself (as some have asked). Just thought it was very cool, and wanted to share something that I thought was positive (and interesting) with the bums.  

Not disappointed, but wary whenever someone over the internet gives a shout-out similar to what you have done. Any experienced practitioner, or even one as unaccomplished as myself, will probably want to scrutinize such declarations too, especially where a term like 'super guru' was included. I think its just wise not to buy into flamboyant statements which appear online without being shown any avenue whereby one can investigate/verify/discern the authenticity of such statements.

[Apech]

40 minutes ago, C T said:

Not disappointed, but wary whenever someone over the internet gives a shout-out similar to what you have done. Any experienced practitioner, or even one as unaccomplished as myself, will probably want to scrutinize such declarations too, especially where a term like 'super guru' was included. I think its just wise not to buy into flamboyant statements which appear online without being shown any avenue whereby one can investigate/verify/discern the authenticity of such statements.

 

 

Jeff,

 

Perhaps you could unpack the super-guru concept for us.

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, C T said:

Not disappointed, but wary whenever someone over the internet gives a shout-out similar to what you have done. Any experienced practitioner, or even one as unaccomplished as myself, will probably want to scrutinize such declarations too, especially where a term like 'super guru' was included. I think its just wise not to buy into flamboyant statements which appear online without being shown any avenue whereby one can investigate/verify/discern the authenticity of such statements.

 

Yes, I agree that there is always cause for such concern. Particularly, as with what we have recently seen happen with one of the leading Buddhist masters. 

 

But, I think your repeated comments here seem to be addressing some problem that does not fit the actual intent of the thread. It was simply a shout out. No plan to further announce some “guru”. No advance release of some broader point. Just me saying that something was really, really cool. Like if someone climbed Mount Everest without any oxygen tanks or supporting equipment. I would be interested, and thought maybe some other members might be too. Just simply acknowledging the beauty and joy of human potential. Like saying, have faith and believe... it is all possible.  

 

 

[C T]

11 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Like if someone climbed Mount Everest without any oxygen tanks or supporting equipment. I would be interested, and thought maybe some other members might be too. Just simply acknowledging the beauty and joy of human potential. Like saying, have faith and believe... it is all possible.  

 

 

A real climb endorsed by authenticated coverage will surely be worthy of accolades, not one that came from a 3rd party announcing that the climb was made. 

 

Faith and beliefs have their usefulness, i'm sure... but sometimes solid and tangible results have more cause to put doubts to bed, and allow others who may want to follow practical means to enhance their steps forward. 

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Jeff,

 

Perhaps you could unpack the super-guru concept for us.

 

There was no trying to define some super guru concept here, or specifically say someone was personally a super guru. If you read the OP, i used the words “super guru stuff” in parenthesis, in an attempt to give some concept to the meaning of higher end “form” realms (also perspective on formless).

 

It was an attempt to give context to the previously mentioned idea of climbing 30,000 ft up a mountain with no support and no oxygen tanks; and not just visit, but actually live there. Apech - we know each other pretty well, and if you are actually interested, and while it doesn’t exactly fit, I would be happy to give you a rough comparison it terms of relative quietness of activity in your mind.

 

 

[Nungali]

Oh dang !  I thought this was going to be about levels of conscious mind .  Maybe some comparative mapping between  different systems and schemata        . 

 

 

 

 

Our group worked on one in 6 divisions of  yoga/magick as qualities of 'mind'  and their ability (for each) to lead either to enlightenment or ignorance .  In magick they are often referred to as  'trances'   (not the ordinary meaning , the meaning that we are nearly always in some form of 'trance' . )   Our group artist used a geometric design and appropriate colour divisions, and it was painted up as 'tracing board' for the group .

 

I also have my ' astro/psychological tree' model     (an adaption of the schemata on top left  above ) .

 

...  I am sure there are some great  Vedic and Buddhist models as well .

[Apech]

6 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

Yes, I agree that there is always cause for such concern. Particularly, as with what we have recently seen happen with one of the leading Buddhist masters. 

 

....

 

 

 

If you mean Sogyal Rinpoche - then perhaps it is worth noting that the whole point about him was that he wasn't actually a qualified Lama and rather than receive proper training had gone to a Catholic school - so it is still worth checking the authenticity of claims.

[Apech]

6 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

There was no trying to define some super guru concept here, or specifically say someone was personally a super guru. If you read the OP, i used the words “super guru stuff” in parenthesis, in an attempt to give some concept to the meaning of higher end “form” realms (also perspective on formless).

 

It was an attempt to give context to the previously mentioned idea of climbing 30,000 ft up a mountain with no support and no oxygen tanks; and not just visit, but actually live there. Apech - we know each other pretty well, and if you are actually interested, and while it doesn’t exactly fit, I would be happy to give you a rough comparison it terms of relative quietness of activity in your mind.

 

 

 

OK Jeff I don't wish to be pedantic - even though the term super-guru does appear in the OP in brackets and not parenthesis - so I assumed it was some kind of defined concept in your system.

 

I think you have to accept you are making an enormous claim for a fellow DB - that he (or she!) has spent a year at some enormously 'high' level and still resides beyond the level of what any of our 'favourite gurus' might be at.  I can't answer for everyone else but I know that many DBs have no teacher while others , like myself, do have a teacher, but I don't have anything like a 'favourite guru' which sounds like something from the New Age Spiritual supermarket to me.   And it might surprise you to learn that I genuinely have no interest in how high he has climbed up the proverbial mountain - I am only interested to receive authentic teachings which avoid subjective self judgements.

 

Thank you for your offer of giving me a comparison - but I assume you mean directly and not through words and as usual I will reject your offer as I am only interested in understanding what you were communicating in the OP.  You presumably thought this whole issue was important enough to let us all know about it - so to respect your wish I am trying to grasp what exactly you are saying.

 

For instance:

 

"What people often call consciousness has a zero level, then many levels/layers of relative form and astral stuff, and then beyond that are the various formless realms."

 

Am I right in assuming that by 'zero level' you mean something like base-consciousness or underlying sentience or similar?  Also I am not sure what 'astral stuff' means and how that is different to the other levels and layers of relative form.  And sorry to be thick but how can there be various formless realms - if there are different realms then they must have defining characteristics surely - so I'm a bit puzzled by this.

 

Lastly when you say this member lived at a very high level for a year - do you mean internally? or in a cave somewhere or were they carrying on their daily life as well?  Just trying to get a clearer picture.

 

Thanks.

 

[allinone]

i think it is New age thing of shifting to 5D. What 5D is your imagination manifest reality. Now just look it up what Jhana realm have same quality and you get a correlation. So is that wrong thing to do?

Or i should find a teacher, what usually is meant that the person saying things out doesn't want to take the responsibilities what said on him/herself so its easier to tell find a teacher. It is like a internet meme.

Jhana realms from second one have no sexual unions, in higher realm mere smile can satisfy. If you look Buddha statues they smile. Monks aim to reach is at least Akanistha realm.

--------

its for to realize truths about reality, if want to know even better truths need make a resolutions, take vows.

So a commoner can do whatever it likes i assume, but they won't get to know the truths and other knowledge.

 

Other words it is bigger world with different classes of beings etc but if want to get most out of human life then there is some pointers to fulfill so can enter to certain places.

Edited September 25, 2017 by allinone

[Nothingness]

I enjoyed reading this. Not only did that "being" go from "normal-human-ego-consciousness" to "super-guru-ego-consciousness", but he/she even managed to take his/her ego to the "beyond-god-formless-realms-consciousness" and come back with it to tell us the story. 

 

Don't take this personally please, but this is just a funny story unrelated to nirvana, enlightenment, etc., of how some mind went up to higher levels of refined illusion and then came back to post on a forum about it. 

 

Maybe we should consider being no one. Being nobody. Dissolving completely instead of going temporarily to some "form" or "formless" realm. 

 

Why do we want so much to be something or someone and tell others about it?  

Edited February 21, 2021 by Nothingness

[Jetsun]

I heard this story about a guy who took a really high dose of acid who during his trip started going through all the realms, so went through hell realms and heaven realms and all sorts of different places getting higher and higher until he finally broke through the highest realm.. to realise he was back exactly where he started, right here, now, this is it. 

 

The hardest and most challenging thing I think is to bring back whereever you go into your humanity, into now, otherwise whats the point , otherwise isn't it just another form of avoidance? Avoiding being here. 

 

There is a really interesting book about Mother Meera I read who was tutored as a child by Sri Aurobindo, and as a child they would visit all these different realms together , but she would go higher and higher until she broke through to a divine realm, but rather than stay there she found a way to bring down the Paranatman light from the divine realm into our humanity. So if you now go to see her in person she becomes a channel and brings down this divine light first through her hands into your head and then through her eyes into your body, the result of which dissolves people's most difficult karmic knots. She could probably hang out in the divine formless realm if she wanted, but it wouldn't be much use to anyone else, actually her doing that took a toll on her nervous system for many years so there is something noble and an element of sacrifice in her work, fortunately she now appears to be getting stronger. 

 

So if somebody is hanging out some place else so what?  Must be nice for them to take a holiday or extended break from being in the messiness that is our humanity, but at some point they have to come back. 

 

 

[allinone]

10 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

So

 

if you put your hand onto a hot plate there is a pressure or light growing very fast and big it hit painfully after certain threshold is reached, your mind is able to discern it, you won't see it with physical eyes. People can affect you same way.

I think pain can be dissolved like craving can be dissolved.

 

In one of the translation of Diamond Sutra read that if you conquer pain that means it doesn't go over the threshold you grow back what you lost.

So it reminded me amphibians who can grow back their limbs, so i wonder if they feel any pain.