Effects and Signs of successful Jing Replenishment

[Wells]

In this thread I'd like to discuss and hear opinions concerning the signs and effects of successful jing ("pre-heaven energy", "essence", "ming") replenishment through high-level taoist practice ("taoist alchemy" etc.).

 

What in your opinion are the effects and signs of successful jing replenishment through taoist practice?

 

Do you know quotes in classic taoist texts which describe the signs and effects of successful jing replenishment?

 

[idquest]

Specifically for males - a good and tangible response of reproductive system. This statement is based on statistical observations during retreats of highly regarded masters. The evidence was gathered incidentally and verbally - in case you have some inappropriate thoughts about it.

[Wells]

Wow. The participation in this thread so far is disappointing for a taoist forum, considering that replenishing jing is the crucial mechanism ("Nourishing Life (yangsheng)") behind the achievement of the first step ("laying the foundation") in the process of taoist alchemy.

 

http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/wm_laying_the_foundations.html

"In his commentary to Awakening to Reality, Weng Baoguang writes: Essence can generate Breath, and Breath can generate Spirit; to strengthen and protect oneself, nothing is more important than this. Those who devote themselves to Nourishing Life (yangsheng) treasure in the first place their Essence. If the Essence is full, Breath is strong; if the Breath is strong, Spirit flourishes; if the Spirit flourishes, the body is healthy and there are few illnesses. Internally, the five viscera bloom; externally, the skin becomes smooth. One's complexion is luminous, and one's ears and eyes are sharp and bright."

" . . . at the stage of "laying the foundations" there are two tasks: the first is preserving the state of Essence and Breath; the second is replenishing their shortage. When Essence is abundant, when Breath is full, and when Spirit is flourishing, this stage of the practice is concluded.  Wang Mu Foundations of Internal Alchemy"

 

If I understand correctly the quotes above from classic taoist alchemy texts, then the process of replenishing jing is called "Nourishing Life" (yangsheng) in taoist alchemy and subsequently replenishes chi and shen (makes them "full") as well. External effects and signs of jing replenishment seem to include a renewal of health and a reversal of aging.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

Most likely different taoist systems (taoist alchemy, daoyin, taoist neijia, etc.) have different approaches to the process of jing replenishment, but I assume that all these systems agree in its utmost and fundamental importance.

[exorcist_1699]

From Taoist standpoint , the importance of stopping jing leakage for any high  achievement  is beyond doubt , whether it be spiritual or physical as they are always related , inseparate; such a position is  different from some religions' claim of depleting the physical body so as to get some spiritual achievement ; so  I will  here only focus on those successful ways  of stopping leakage  jing ;  of course,  stoppage is the pre-condition for you   can't replenish it  by keep losing it .

 

So far there are only two successful ways:

 

The Taoist way : By refining all jing into qi , then of course, there is no jing to leak; what you   can leak are qi and Shen ; this can be said to  be a gradual way for you are asked to follow the jing -> qi -> Shen path , which likely  is also an easier way .  Of course, the problems you then get is how to avoid the leakage of qi or Shen, but they are problems of next stage . 

 

The Zen way : This way says that you  leak jing because you  get a low-quality ,fluctuated mind , so if you  are always in  a high-quality mindless Mind , then hardly can you  need to worry about it .A mind full of  sex drive , in fact, is also   a  Mind of  Enlightenment / Tao  ( "淫心即道心"  ") . High spiritual achievement needs  enough jing embedded to succeed , so methodologically speaking , you  just turn it around to do , simple and ' easy ' , I mean clear-cut and thorough ; of course it is a hard way but  a mindless Mind can be something playful, so why not try it ?

Edited September 28, 2017 by exorcist_1699

[Sudhamma]

I couldn't contribute to this subject of replenishing jing, the 'sexual' (?) essence beyond the practice of zhan zhuang and the opening of the 8 extra-meridians which has one part of moving the qi up to the sexual organ before entering into the LDT. my teacher told me that when jing is full, you won't feel hungry for food, that is.

[Wells]

Concerning "inverting the course", I think that many popular alchemic schools dramatically misunderstood what that actually means!

 

 

http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/wm_laying_the_foundations.html

"What is the meaning of "following the course" (shun)? "The One generates the Two, the Two generate the Three, the Three generate the ten thousand things." Therefore Emptiness transmutes itself into Spirit, Spirit transmutes itself into Breath, Breath transmutes itself into Essence, Essence transmutes itself into form, and form becomes the human being.

What is the meaning of "inverting the course" (ni)? The ten thousand things hold the Three, the Three return to the Two, the Two return to the One. Those who know this Way look after their Spirit and guard their corporeal form. They nourish the corporeal form to refine the Essence, accumulate the Essence to transmute it into Breath, refine the Breath to merge it with Spirit, and refine the Spirit to revert to Emptiness. Then the Golden Elixir is achieved."

 

Emptiness -> Spirit -> Breath -> Essence => form (human being)

 

During pregnancy, an amount of energy storage (essence) is build up in the human being by accumulating, condensing and storing up energy from emptiness into essence through the steps in the process described above.

But, this energetic process of energy accumulation stops at birth when a human being is born, leaving the human being with a limited amount of energy storage (essence).

After birth, through living as a being with form, breath and spirit, the energetic process in the human being is already inverted into:

 

Essence -> Breath -> Spirit -> Emptiness

 

meaning, that beginning with birth and during life, the now limited energy storage of the human form (essence) is slowly being burned up and transformed in several steps back into emptiness (non-being), because the form, breath and spirit of the human being have to be supported through burning up (transforming back) essence constantly into breath and spirit.

This is the actual energy leakage taking place through the process of living. When the stored up essence is used up completely by reverting back completely into emptiness, there is no more Essence (fuel) to support the existence of the human being on all its levels (form, breath, spirit), therefore form, breath and spirit of the human being cease to exist and only emptiness and matter remain.

In other words, to create an immortal human being which never ceases to exist, the actual process which has to be inverted is the slowly burning up of essence during life and to invert the energetic process into the one which takes place during pregancy.

The energetic process taking place during life

 

Essence -> Breath -> Spirit -> Emptiness

 

has to be inverted into the energetic process taking place during pregnancy

 

Emptiness -> Spirit -> Breath -> Essence

 

to create an immortal human being that will never burn out but instead will become immortal.

Through this process of inversion, the amount of essence is refueled back to the level at birth, thereby creating an immortal human being which recaptures its youth, grey hair turns black again etc., in effect creating an "earth immortal".

 

Essence -> Breath -> Spirit -> Emptiness

 

takes place in any form (human being) anyway to allow its existence, so the process of

 

Emptiness -> Spirit -> Breath -> Essence

 

has to take place parallel to that, constantly and on a higher rate to allow replenishment of essence.

 

If the process of refueling essence is kept up so that the human being accumulates more essence than it had at birth and accumulates super-human amounts of stored up energy (essence), higher levels of immortality can be reached. If the level of stored up energy in the human form / body reaches a certain high level, then the material form of the human is transformed into a form of energy ("ascending to heaven in broad daylight"), creating a "celestial immortal".

 

These are my logical conclusions of how the taoist alchemic process of "inverting the course" to create an immortal being really works, considering the given premises.

Seemingly not all branches of the taoist alchemy schools were necessarily able to come to the correct and logical conclusions.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Wells

[MooNiNite]

Daoist cultivation is about the Dragon and Tiger. The Tiger wants to jump down and the dragon wants to fly around everywhere. The tiger is known as a very sexual animal. So the idea is to stop leaking sexual essence (keepign the tiger from jumping down), and also rest the mind, so as to keep the dragon from flying around. The dragon settles and the tiger goes up.

 

So we are talking about sexual abstinence. Although Taoists usually admit that it is normal to have sex, just not too much.

Practices for replenishing jing usually involve abstinence for 3 months. (Something that I think is very difficult.)

 

The Daoists also talk about spontanious erections as a sign of healthy jing. 

 

In my personal experience, when one feels heat in their lower stomach , their lower dantien is full. The heat is more of a warning sign from the body, but a very fun and reassuring experience. 

[Wells]

Concerning Tai Chi systems and the replenishment of jing (essence),

up to this point and because of my involvement with temple style tai chi,

I came to the conclusion that jin (power) = jing (essence).

But, considering that temple style tai chi teachers who successfully cultivated significant amounts of jin seem to age like normal people, I now have to question that previous conclusion of mine.

Also, Master Waysun Liao writes clearly in his Tai Chi Classics book, page 18:

"T'ai Chi is based on the principle of three levels of
energy. The base level, the essence or life energy, is inherent in
the living organism. The next stage or level, ch'i, is a higher-than-
normal manifestation of life energy. [...] When ch'i is purified it
elevates to the third stage: shen, or spirit. Shen is a much higher
form of energy than ch'i and feels very different from ch'i.
Jing or Nei Jing. The power that is generated by ch'i is called
jing, commonly known as nei jing, the internal power."

According to these statements, the cultivation of jin (power) seems rather like "following the course" than "inverting the course", probably thereby even burning up jing (essence) faster than it would be the case without cultivating jin (power).

However, there are the testimonials of Master Gary Clyman's students who claim to have raised their vitality (and therefore seemingly the level of essence) through his Temple Style Nei Kung system.

This creates a riddle which has to be addressed and hopefully solved.

 

Any ideas?

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

„The synonymous function of all types of TaiChi movements is that they are slow, relaxed,
continuous, and always obeying the principles of harmony and balance. Cyclic Form
Training permits a greatly intensified examination of these. This demands of the
practitioner a high degree of mindfulness and attention (Yi, 意) on the feeling awareness of
the body (Jing, 靜, basic essence – not to be confused with Jin, 勁, Internal Power). When
performed properly and under Guidance, this supplies a very practical gateway to
integrating consciousness with awareness and movement in a dynamically powerful way
— dynamic because it transmutes base Energies into their refined and homogeneous state.
Cyclic Form Training facilitates this Work more readily and lucidly than any other
approach. Through this effort, the essential feeling awareness of the body is refined and
the Chi (氣) is Realized. Chi, being the underlying basis of Life, is further refined via
movement and attention (Flow + Mind / Chi + Yi) to eventually fuse with the Mind and
generate Jìn, (勁, Internal Power) which is a distinct type of Energy not otherwise present
in the human experience. It is with a cultivated and refined Jìn that the Spirit (Shen, 神) is
lucidly Realized, and further cultivated and refined to approach and eventually be
transmuted into Té (德, Innermost Being). It is from here that Integration with Tao (道) is
Realized (this will be elucidated more completely in an upcoming chapter on the Internal
Process – 內功, Nei Gōng).“
~ Gregory James~

 

This quote by temple style tai chi master Gregory James seems to support the theory that jin (power) is not jing (essence) and further that cultivating jin (power) feeds on jing (essence), thereby not only "following the course" but probably even accelerating the rate at which jing (essence) is burned up.

 

Any ideas?

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

1 hour ago, MooNiNite said:

Daoist cultivation is about the Dragon and Tiger. The Tiger wants to jump down and the dragon wants to fly around everywhere. The tiger is known as a very sexual animal. So the idea is to stop leaking sexual essence (keepign the tiger from jumping down), and also rest the mind, so as to keep the dragon from flying around. The dragon settles and the tiger goes up.

 

So we are talking about sexual abstinence. Although Taoists usually admit that it is normal to have sex, just not too much.

Practices for replenishing jing usually involve abstinence for 3 months. (Something that I think is very difficult.)

 

Probably those techniques of "reaching a stable equilibrium" of "fire" ("Dragon") and "water" ("Tiger") in the form of "steam" are rather about decreasing (or stopping) the energy leakage than about increasing the actual amount of stored up energy, thereby only "slowing down the following of the course" and not actually "inverting the course"...

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

Probably the cultivation of internal power is supposed to have a similar "equilibrium" effect (decreasing or stopping energy leakage), but seemingly it does not increase essence (amount of stored up energy in the human form).

 

[MooNiNite]

6 minutes ago, Wells said:

 

Probably those techniques of "reaching a stable equilibrium" of "fire" ("Dragon") and "water" ("Tiger") in the form of "steam" are rather about decreasing (or stopping) the energy leakage than about increasing the actual amount of stored up energy, thereby only "slowing down the following of the course" and not actually "inverting the course"...

 

 

I really dont know much about Kan and Li.

I do know that the goal is to increase the amount of jing/vitality energy. It is known as a crude substance which gold/spirit is made form. At least this is what I was taught by many, most recently Wu Dang Chen (http://daohouse.com/founder-of-dao-house/). From my experience the lower dan tien and middle dantien produce heat when they are full, i think this is partially why the lower dan tien is usually referred to as a boiling pot. As im sure many have explained, the goal is to raise the jing/vitality through relaxation and concentration and covert it to chi and shen.  

[MooNiNite]

6 minutes ago, Wells said:

Probably the cultivation of internal power is supposed to have a similar "equilibrium" effect (decreasing or stopping energy leakage), but seemingly it does not increase essence (amount of stored up energy in the human form).

 

 

I think the essence transforms. 

Also the heat sensation in the LTD leads me to believe that it increases.

 

Edit: I dont mean to hammer on too much. I am extremely interested in others viewpoints regarding the thread topic.

Edited September 25, 2017 by MooNiNite

[Wells]

14 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

 

I think the essence transforms. 

Also the heat sensation in the LTD leads me to believe that it increases.

 

Transformed, yes, and that could also mean that previously "cold-stored up" energy (essence, jing) is now released / set free in the form of heat or vibration (chi), thereby increasing energy leakage ("following the course").

Like an amount of gasoline which is ignited...

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Wells

[MooNiNite]

1 minute ago, Wells said:

 

It could also mean that previously "cold-stored up" energy (essence, jing) is now released / set free in the form of heat or vibration, thereby increasing energy leakage.

Like a piece of paper which is ignited...

 

 

Well I believe the heat sensation is a warning sign that the "container" (lower dantien) is full. There are quotes from Wang Liping's book, quotes from ancients, that talk about not letting the pot get too hott because it is dangerious. And then you also have John Chang warning of Lower dantien rupture, when it gets too full. Just connecting dots. 

[Wells]

2 hours ago, MooNiNite said:

Well I believe the heat sensation is a warning sign that the "container" (lower dantien) is full. There are quotes from Wang Liping's book, quotes from ancients, that talk about not letting the pot get too hott because it is dangerious. And then you also have John Chang warning of Lower dantien rupture, when it gets too full. Just connecting dots. 

 

http://www.all-dao.com/difference-qigong-alchemy.html

"The ways of Alchemy and Qigong have very many differences, but the most fundamental difference is that alchemy is the process of reverse perfection, while qigong – is a process of onward perfection."

 

I have no doubt about the high accomplishments of these masters in ways of "onward perfection" through methods which "follow the course" and cultivate chi and shen, but I doubt that they accomplished anything in ways of "reverse perfection" through methods which "invert the course" and cultivate jing. All these known chi masters have amazing abilities but don't exactly look like young men, therefore they are obviously inable to reverse aging. I therefore doubt that they were able to replenish jing or that their schools have the methods for replenishing jing.

That leads me to believe that the methods for replenishing jing are the most rare and the most secret ones in the world. I think that Taomeow said that someone who is able to replenish jing is able to play with gods on their playground. I surely agree with that.

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

On a sidenote:

My fascination with the topic of jing came quite natural to me, I have always been fascinated with the root and the essence of things, with things which gave me naturally a feeling of primal, original, unrefined, rooty, rustic, rugged, unspoilt, primordial, ancient, initial, substantial, dense, heavy, primeval, essential, fundamental, basic, still, prime, critical, etc.

 

As this thread is about jing and if your focus is a similar one, for loosening up the thread a bit you can post pictures which give you personally a "jing" feeling!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Wells

[Echo]

I'm not very surprised that teachings that could potenitally prolong your life on this earth for an infinite amount of time are not wildly known  

I think I recall one instance of a TDB-Member claiming to have "real" ming-gong in their scholl, which should be what we are looking for here if I'm not mistaken. 

(Edit: I think it was from  Wiu-Liu Pai)

 

9 hours ago, Wells said:

[...] Those who know this Way look after their Spirit and guard their corporeal form. They nourish the corporeal form to refine the Essence, accumulate the Essence to transmute it into Breath, refine the Breath to merge it with Spirit, and refine the Spirit to revert to Emptiness. Then the Golden Elixir is achieved." [...]

Does "nourishing their corporal form" refer to eating, drinking, etc. (i.e. nourishing our body)?

And is there any material regarding ming gong in the classical daoist literature?

P.S: I really like the way you presented the material by the way! 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Echo

[Wells]

3 hours ago, Echo said:

I think I recall one instance of a TDB-Member claiming to have "real" ming-gong in their scholl, which should be what we are looking for here if I'm not mistaken. 

(Edit: I think it was from  Wiu-Liu Pai)

 

Yes, that's true. It would be interesting to know something about their method.

 

3 hours ago, Echo said:

Does "nourishing their corporal form" refer to eating, drinking, etc. (i.e. nourishing our body)?

And is there any material regarding ming gong in the classical daoist literature?

 

Sadly, I don't know the answers to both of these questions but hope that people with more knowledge of classic taoist texts can enlighten us with some quotes.

 

[beingnature]

Just a question... has this sweet tasting saliva anything to do with it?

[Wells]

1 hour ago, NATURE BEEING said:

Just a question... has this sweet tasting saliva anything to do with it?

 

I have no idea.

But I would probably look rather for signs like:

- increased vitality

- increased sexual energy

- increased assertiveness

- increased health

- increased mental energy

- reversal of aging

- healing of chronic ailments

- increased overall wellbeing

- increased resistance against stress

- increased immune system

- increased recovery

- increased sleep quality

- increased psychological stability

...

Edited September 26, 2017 by Wells

[Mudfoot]

Most of those signs can be the result of ordinary qigong practice. 

 

So, in the terms of this thread, those results might stand for a better way to utilize jing, a more efficient way for qi to flow, and less waste of shen. 

 

But perhaps not the same as repleneshing jing, or accessing prenatal jing? 

[Wells]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

Most of those signs can be the result of ordinary qigong practice. 

 

So, in the terms of this thread, those results might stand for a better way to utilize jing, a more efficient way for qi to flow, and less waste of shen. 

 

But perhaps not the same as repleneshing jing, or accessing prenatal jing? 

 

Perhaps we have to narrow down the list of conclusive signs & effects to "reversal of aging" then...

Although, I could imagine that an increase of stored up jing might lead to a natural increase of a feeling of calm self-assurance at a physical level kind of like knowing to have a lot of money at one's bank account might lead to a similar feeling at a mental level...

Edited September 26, 2017 by Wells

[Aeran]

Have you read Damo Mitchell's books? He talks in depth about the relationship between jing/qi/shen, stabilizing the jing, increasing the efficiency of the jing > qi > shen conversion, and so forth. I wouldn't attempt to try and summarise his explanations personally, but I'd highly recommend checking them out if you're interested in the topic, especially Daoist Nei Gong and White Moon on the Mountain Peak. The latter in particular goes into a fair bit of depth on the subject of Jing > Qi conversion and the relationship between congenital/acquired jing/qi, since it's focused on the early/intermediate stages of Nei Dan.